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GAF Indie Game Development Thread 2: High Res Work for Low Res Pay

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P

PurpleMoustache

Member
el_Nikolinho said:
Working on a store type thing for my game. Instead of having a traditional store I'm thinking about making 80's/90's style magazine type ads
hTbcCTv.png
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This is The Most Vaporwave
(it looks really good. Loving the VHS fuzz shader)
 
R

Raticus79

Seek victory, not fairness
Anyone trying out Vulkan in UE4? I'm just getting started here and it looks like it might be a better choice vs DirectX 12 for what I had in mind. (artificial life game with tons of units on screen at times)
 
T

Timeaisis

Member
Man, I forgot about this thread. It's been a while, guys. Everyone has incredible stuff, good shit.

snarge said:
That Unity thread....yeesh. I mean, I don't even like developers vs. developers with engine talk. Pick the engine best suited to making, publishing, and selling your game. End of discussion.

But listening to muggles talk about how magic is made? Fucking hell.

Anyway, I'm trying to charm a potential publisher into Snail Storm. He said it was fun, but a little bare bones. Which is true, I only published the dev build recently because I'm laid off, and it still needs some content for sure. But anyway, net results were 2 new weapons and 1 new level (in one day)

Grenade:
8gXrJJs.gif


Turrets:
c3mZJHD.gif


Also, my ability to make animated gifs is much better now (I got to take home my work pc when the company shutdown, and it has PS on it!), but still a little choppy. Any tips on getting high / smooth FPS with them?
Click to expand...

I like the look of this. Looks chaotic and fun.

HP_Wuvcraft said:
Okay, fellows, who here is doing GDC?
Click to expand...
I will indeed be there.

I started a new project recently due to being laid off, so there's that. Hope to have little taste ready in a couple weeks.
 
P

Popstar

Member
BigWeather said:
My son would like to get into coding and is pretty excited about the idea of making a fairly simple game, a 2D top-down twin stick shooter.

I've worked with XNA and Unity before but since XNA is a bit dead and Unity is a bit more complex UI-wise than I'd like to start him with (and seems a bit more 3D oriented than 2D) I'd like to find a different environment.

I was thinking about using Game Maker and GML but the lack of classes / OO turns me off there. I'd like him to get exposed to that early.

Any suggestions for a simple to use environment with a decent OO language? Thanks!
Click to expand...
Monogame is the obvious thing to jump to from XNA.

Since you were using XNA you're probably familiar with Visual Studio. So Cocos2D is also a good option as VS2015 has support.

A "creative coding" framework might also be another option. I like Cinder myself.
 
Cute Dragon Here

Cute Dragon Here

Member
JeffG said:
Well, you should always "go ahead and try it". Its either that or just fire up the XBone (or PS4) lol

The reality is...if you have a good idea of what you want accomplished, the object model you create will have a good structure.

If you are flying by the seat of your pants and throwing new things in all the time...you model will probably be very chaotic

I remember using XNA writing the worlds worst 3d engine. Due to version changes, I restarted the project about 3 times. Each time, the application (and the underlying object model) was cleaner, made more sense and performed better. But that was due to the mistakes I made in earlier iterations.

Sometimes ugly code lives a long long time due to the effort it takes to refactor it.
Click to expand...

Mmm hmm!

Come to think about it, I've been playing around with code, trying to save the player data into an XML file. I think I probably should keep the player data separate from the actual player object, right? As in, the player script does the gameplay-ey stuff, but the actual internal player data is being kept as a separate object or some such? Ran into serialization errors complaining that I can't just store data like that as is (single player script handling everything), so I expect to do some work to split up the gameplay and data variables.

(Going to throw this out... perhaps the PlayerScript class/script should contain the PlayerData class object which in turn contains the Stats class object. Does that sound good?)

(If that's worth anything, it's the Transform that's causing problems.)
 
T

timetokill

Banned
liliththepale said:
You're great on camera! I'll definitely keep you in mind if/when I have something to demo.
Click to expand...
Thanks so much! I'd love to play your stuff :)


HP_Wuvcraft said:
I love that you play other GAF games. Army's not an alpha or beta or I'd totally hit you up for PR.
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Thanks :) I definitely want to help the community out. And since I got a new mic, I figured it'd be good to break it in by livestreaming some games and give people here a good beta tester with footage they can analyze. I know from experience that playtesting is invaluable to the production of games.
 
P

Pehesse

Member
timetokill said:
Thanks :) I definitely want to help the community out. And since I got a new mic, I figured it'd be good to break it in by livestreaming some games and give people here a good beta tester with footage they can analyze. I know from experience that playtesting is invaluable to the production of games.
Click to expand...

True! That's very nice of you to consider that. I'll definitely be sending Honey your way if you want to try it out on the air, when it's ready (or closer to).
 
J

justsomeguy

Member
Noivern said:
It probably is, but I figured that if I can handle this, it should also make creating localizable text assets much more easier in the future.

It probably only really needs mentioning that I believe that the code is probably mostly set, and I just need to know exactly how should a class-within-a-class be handled when it comes to XML-based loading/saving. :)
Click to expand...
Yup you should just need to mark the class as serializable then all the public properties in it will serialize (provided they are serializable types). If you have private state you need to serialize then it's a different problem to solve :)

There's a lot of flexibility in the xml serializer to handle behaviour - E.g. By putting attributes on fields.

So yes xml serialization is a great way to go. Provided you're either a) on console or b) happy that users can edit the file by hand easily on pc.

Re "class in a class" just create your classes as normal. Your public fields can be a reference type not just an object type e.g.:

public class GlobalStats
{
public int score;
public NPCStats[] MonsterStats;
public LevelData CurrentLevel;
}

etc.

So as long as NPCStats and LevelData are serializable types then when you serialize GlobalStats it'll include those values too.
 
F

Feep

Banned
I wish I were making a new game like you guys. = ( I have nothing interesting to post...

PS4 porting is tough, but I think it's going to be very beneficial for me. There's a massive entry hurdle, including getting all the logistics of working with Sony down, but now I feel like I could release any future projects on the PS4 almost as easily as on Steam, and there's obviously an order of magnitude fewer titles.

Though let me tell you, working with PS4's voice recognition...hoo boy.

Almost done, though!
 
Cute Dragon Here

Cute Dragon Here

Member
justsomeguy said:
Yup you should just need to mark the class as serializable then all the public properties in it will serialize (provided they are serializable types). If you have private state you need to serialize then it's a different problem to solve :)

There's a lot of flexibility in the xml serializer to handle behaviour - E.g. By putting attributes on fields.

So yes xml serialization is a great way to go. Provided you're either a) on console or b) happy that users can edit the file by hand easily on pc.

Re "class in a class" just create your classes as normal. Your public fields can be a reference type not just an object type e.g.:

public class GlobalStats
{
public int score;
public NPCStats[] MonsterStats;
public LevelData CurrentLevel;
}

etc.

So as long as NPCStats and LevelData are serializable types then when you serialize GlobalStats it'll include those values too.
Click to expand...

Sounds good to me. So. Lets say...

I have a PlayerScript (bad name) which handles field gameplay (when not in a battle, in other words), and it contains PlayerData, which in turn contains Stats.

So, when I save the game, I should just serialize PlayerData and dump it into a file? And make sure the PlayerScript contains only the kind of things you don't need to save?
 
C

correojon

Member
HandsomeCharles said:
I think you could be running into the same kind of trap as Kalentan was on the other page.

Essentially, it's just boiling down to consistency again. Your character and your Temple Gates looks good, and they look to be of the same visual style, but unfortunately the other elements don't.

The first thing that struck me was that with your ground tiles, the outline of the tiles appears to be 2px wide, whereas your character, the gates and the detail on the ground tiles all have 1px wide outlines. It just makes it a bit jarring imo.

Second up, the background is very different from the rest of your artwork. So much so that I assume it's intentional. If so, that's fine (It kinda looks like a papercraft/collage effect) but I think you need to change up the colours regardless.

Essentially, the "further away" the background element is, the lighter it should be. If you don't then you run the risk of confusing the player due to what is essentially a "clutter" of colours and details.

And again, just my opinion, but I wouldn't use any outlines in the background that are thicker than those of the clouds that you drew. I think it would look nicer that way.

Anyway, keep up the good work! I'm liking your animations and how it looks when you're playing! :)
Click to expand...

The backgound style is intentional, I wanted to use a very different style from the things in the front plane, so that I can use a colorful background while gameplay elements are still clear and easily recognizable for the player. The "collage" look was a fortunate accident, I liked it so much when it happened that decided to make everything like this :) You´re spot on when saying that the further backgrounds need to be lighter and the borders thinner, I was seeing something off with those planes but couldn´t identify what it was. The border-width issue for the player and tiles had totally escaped me, good catch! Thanks a lot, you´ve given me really good advice :)


HP_Wuvcraft said:
Don't you love that part?
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After struggling for so many weeks with menial advances putting everything together and seeing it work feels awesome!!


BigWeather said:
My son would like to get into coding and is pretty excited about the idea of making a fairly simple game, a 2D top-down twin stick shooter.

I've worked with XNA and Unity before but since XNA is a bit dead and Unity is a bit more complex UI-wise than I'd like to start him with (and seems a bit more 3D oriented than 2D) I'd like to find a different environment.

I was thinking about using Game Maker and GML but the lack of classes / OO turns me off there. I'd like him to get exposed to that early.

Any suggestions for a simple to use environment with a decent OO language? Thanks!
Click to expand...

How old is he? If he doesn´t have any programming experience I think GM is a great start, it´s easy to grasp the basic programming concepts through D&D and then transition to GML. Also, it´s a very, very good way to start with OOP. He won´t be programming classes strictly, but all the basic stuff about OOP can be seen in objects and instances, so when the time comes to really use them in another language it´ll be easier for him to grasp the most difficult concepts thanks to the analogies he will find.
 
J

Jacksinthe

Banned
So since our game is so bright and vibrant I may need to play around with change blindness to lessen the fatigue brought on the eyes. I already employ small tricks to alleviate any harshness and keep the image fresh each frame but I may open up a new bag to see what I can pull off without the user noticing.
 
J

justsomeguy

Member
Noivern said:
Sounds good to me. So. Lets say...

I have a PlayerScript (bad name) which handles field gameplay (when not in a battle, in other words), and it contains PlayerData, which in turn contains Stats.

So, when I save the game, I should just serialize PlayerData and dump it into a file? And make sure the PlayerScript contains only the kind of things you don't need to save?
Click to expand...


Yup.
 
Cute Dragon Here

Cute Dragon Here

Member
justsomeguy said:
Yup.
Click to expand...

All right!

I think I'm missing something, though. As it is right now, all three classes are actually C# scripts; PlayerScript contains PlayerData which contains Stats. I intend to serialize PlayerData, but for some reason I keep running into the problem that the automatically-inherited Transform thingy from MonoBehavior is making it fail.

Apparently the data-only stuff should not inherit MonoBehavior, but as soon as I remove the inheritance, Unity throws a fit and won't recognize these data scripts. What should I do?
 
M

MikeHaggar

Member
Developer here. I'd love to build a VR game, but I have no artistic abilities. I've explored trying to use the assets on the Unity store to piece together everything that I need, but the reality is that I will not end up with a cohesive, professional product that I can sell. If there are any 3d artists out there who would like to team with a developer for VR projects please pm me. I have a Comp Sci degree, work as a developer during the day, and have game dev experience under my belt. Thanks!
 
M

MrHoot

Member
Kalentan said:
1AJb.png


Lastest Progress update, now all my sprites have been updated. Though some are still a WIP.
Click to expand...

Be careful of line/art consistency and level of detail on your characters, which can create an odd contrast between things that seem more thinly drawn and detailed compared to stuff that is more "chunky". I personally prefer the "newerer" sprites to "current", they seem more harmonious
 
J

JulianImp

Member
MrHoot said:
Be careful of line/art consistency and level of detail on your characters, which can create an odd contrast between things that seem more thinly drawn and detailed compared to stuff that is more "chunky". I personally prefer the "newerer" sprites to "current", they seem more harmonious
Click to expand...

I agree. While the "newerer" sprites looked fairly round for their pixel resolution, the latest version's look really blocky due to how you doubled the pixel resolution while still keeping most of the old 2x2 pixels for character silhouettes.

If you end up using a cloak, I suggest that you look a bit more into how fabric works, since random "("-shaped scribbles in random directions don't really give a sense of a flowing coat or cape. Here's a reference picture I found as an example:
12058.jpg
Click to expand...
Notice how the the fabric looks "smooth" and doesn't bend at the shoulders (which is the area that's actually supporting the fabric), but then it bends and wrinkles under its own weight as you go down since there's nothing to hold it (something that would obviously change if the person wearing this was a woman or had a large belly, for example).
 
K

Kalentan

Member
MrHoot said:
Be careful of line/art consistency and level of detail on your characters, which can create an odd contrast between things that seem more thinly drawn and detailed compared to stuff that is more "chunky". I personally prefer the "newerer" sprites to "current", they seem more harmonious
Click to expand...

JulianImp said:
I agree. While the "newerer" sprites looked fairly round for their pixel resolution, the latest version's look really blocky due to how you doubled the pixel resolution while still keeping most of the old 2x2 pixels for character silhouettes.

If you end up using a cloak, I suggest that you look a bit more into how fabric works, since random "("-shaped scribbles in random directions don't really give a sense of a flowing coat or cape. Here's a reference picture I found as an example:

Notice how the the fabric looks "smooth" and doesn't bend at the shoulders (which is the area that's actually supporting the fabric), but then it bends and wrinkles under its own weight as you go down since there's nothing to hold it (something that would obviously change if the person wearing this was a woman or had a large belly, for example).
Click to expand...


Hm.. Well the reason for the change was that the tilesets in the game are drawn at 1x1, so when you place the 2x2 characters in the world, they look... out of place.

http://i.picpar.com/a3Jb.png

So I tried to make them back to 1x1 but also keeping their correct size rather than the originals which are 1x1 but when blown up, become 2x2.

Also I shall take what you mean about the cloak to heart. Personally not a fan of what I did myself either. It was a bit of a quick patchwork so I could just see all my characters currently, in the current style.

I'm guessing what I should do is really streamline the details on the characters. Remove a lot of their 2x2 details.
 
H

HandsomeCharles

Member
Kalentan said:
Hm.. Well the reason for the change was that the tilesets in the game are drawn at 1x1, so when you place the 2x2 characters in the world, they look... out of place.

http://i.picpar.com/a3Jb.png

So I tried to make them back to 1x1 but also keeping their correct size rather than the originals which are 1x1 but when blown up, become 2x2.
Click to expand...

I think you should try re-doing your forest tiles to be on the 2x2 scale, rather than changing your characters. I have a feeling it will look better that way :)


Noivern said:
Apparently the data-only stuff should not inherit MonoBehavior, but as soon as I remove the inheritance, Unity throws a fit and won't recognize these data scripts. What should I do?
Click to expand...

Once you remove inheritance from MonoBehavior, you wont be able to attach the file as a script to your gameobjects anymore. Instead, you will want to make instances of the class within the relevant scripts that you do attach.

Check here for more information on how to make instances of Classes in C#


C# isn't my strongest language (I'm much more comfortable in C++) but classes can be a tricky thing to get your head around if you haven't encountered them before. If there's anything you don't understand, feel free to give me a shout :)
 
K

Kalentan

Member
HandsomeCharles said:
I think you should try re-doing your forest tiles to be on the 2x2 scale, rather than changing your characters. I have a feeling it will look better that way :)
Click to expand...

I don't know... I feel like while the older ones may look more "harmonous", they also lack a level of detail I can give the newer ones and If I make the Forest tileset also 2x2, I will further lose details.

Just for better discussion, this is how they look when they're their normal size. Aka their sprite size ingame:

xCJb.png
 
J

JulianImp

Member
Kalentan said:
I don't know... I feel like while the older ones may look more "harmonous", they also lack a level of detail I can give the newer ones and If I make the Forest tileset also 2x2, I will further lose details.
Click to expand...

I think your 2x2 characters look decent, but the 1x1 background really doesn't cut it for me. Actually, limiting yourself to smaller sprites is often a good idea since the limitations force you to be more resourceful and think more about the sprite's shape, readability and stuff such as shading without giving you too much space, which means the final product's going to be a lot more focused and errors will become more apparent and thus easier to experiment with and eventually correct.

You should always check sites such as PixelProspector out, since there're lots of handy tutorials on almost anything you'd need to know to make games. Here's a link to their pixel art section: http://pixelartus.com/tagged/pixel-art-tutorials
 
E

ephemeral

Member
timetokill said:
My LivePlay of Wildfire can be found here: https://t.co/8CcIWB9sZt

It's a really fun game! It's incredible what a year can do.
Click to expand...

I really enjoyed watching this, you're a great commentator.

Feep said:
I wish I were making a new game like you guys. = ( I have nothing interesting to post...

PS4 porting is tough, but I think it's going to be very beneficial for me. There's a massive entry hurdle, including getting all the logistics of working with Sony down, but now I feel like I could release any future projects on the PS4 almost as easily as on Steam, and there's obviously an order of magnitude fewer titles.

Though let me tell you, working with PS4's voice recognition...hoo boy.

Almost done, though!
Click to expand...

Do you mind going a bit in-depth about what was hard about it? I'm gonna release my game on PS4 in a few years myself, so I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Das-J said:
Thanks all... gonna be a roller coaster of a day! :)
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Good luck! The game looks great.
 
F

Feep

Banned
ephemeral said:
Do you mind going a bit in-depth about what was hard about it? I'm gonna release my game on PS4 in a few years myself, so I'd love to hear your thoughts.
Click to expand...
I can't speak too much on it, for obvious reasons. I will say that the exceptionally complex voice recognition in TCAE, which needed to be completely rebuilt, caused a majority of the time spent. But there's just a lot of procedural and logistical stuff that goes into a console release that doesn't into a PC release. Steam is basically two steps: get approval, upload build. PS4 is...more steps.
 
E

ephemeral

Member
Feep said:
I can't speak too much on it, for obvious reasons. I will say that the exceptionally complex voice recognition in TCAE, which needed to be completely rebuilt, caused a majority of the time spent. But there's just a lot of procedural and logistical stuff that goes into a console release that doesn't into a PC release. Steam is basically two steps: get approval, upload build. PS4 is...more steps.
Click to expand...

I understand. Thanks for the info you could give :).
 
S

SpookyFries

Member
I've been forcing myself to try and learn UE4 and the blueprint system. I've only been screwing around but I am finding it to be a cakewalk over Unity. Especially the networking which is, for the most part, already done for me. I also wanted to see how easy I could duplicate early 2000s games such as Everquest and Half-Life graphically. That too is also very easy and now I have a decent first person networking example running. Note that in these screens, it's from a player's perspective (no HUD or anything yet) and the other guys are connected players.

And yes, I'm using the Infinity Blade model as a placeholder. I have made the other meshes myself and borrowed textures from EQ and the original Tomb Raider

KrtNwV0.jpg

Fttl0VF.jpg


This isn't a serious project, but I'm having fun learning these tools and hope that I can gain some good knowledge putting it together on my own
 
J

Jobbs

Banned
I talked to the Stencyl god today and it sounds like the console thing is ready for human trials... no guarantees yet though
 
H

HP_Wuvcraft

Banned
SpookyFries said:
I've been forcing myself to try and learn UE4 and the blueprint system. I've only been screwing around but I am finding it to be a cakewalk over Unity. Especially the networking which is, for the most part, already done for me. I also wanted to see how easy I could duplicate early 2000s games such as Everquest and Half-Life graphically. That too is also very easy and now I have a decent first person networking example running. Note that in these screens, it's from a player's perspective (no HUD or anything yet) and the other guys are connected players.

And yes, I'm using the Infinity Blade model as a placeholder. I have made the other meshes myself and borrowed textures from EQ and the original Tomb Raider

KrtNwV0.jpg

Fttl0VF.jpg


This isn't a serious project, but I'm having fun learning these tools and hope that I can gain some good knowledge putting it together on my own
Click to expand...

Spooky, words can't say how much I love this.
 
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