• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

GAF Indie Game Development Thread 2: High Res Work for Low Res Pay

Status
Not open for further replies.

snarge

Member
That Unity thread....yeesh. I mean, I don't even like developers vs. developers with engine talk. Pick the engine best suited to making, publishing, and selling your game. End of discussion.

But listening to muggles talk about how magic is made? Fucking hell.

Anyway, I'm trying to charm a potential publisher into Snail Storm. He said it was fun, but a little bare bones. Which is true, I only published the dev build recently because I'm laid off, and it still needs some content for sure. But anyway, net results were 2 new weapons and 1 new level (in one day)

Grenade:
8gXrJJs.gif


Turrets:
c3mZJHD.gif


Also, my ability to make animated gifs is much better now (I got to take home my work pc when the company shutdown, and it has PS on it!), but still a little choppy. Any tips on getting high / smooth FPS with them?
 

Pehesse

Member
Thank you! If you could even try to pinpoint something you enjoyed the most, or a cool moment you experienced, that would also be useful as it'd give me something to focus on trying to encourage or push players towards.

Hmm... so far, it's definitely the emergent play with fire that's the most striking to me, but that's already the main focus :-D The overall movement feel and basic mechanics feel really nice, but it's the possibility to start throwing fireballs and cause different situations/effects that's really interesting. Scaring the AI is fun :v I'm not that very far in yet, so there is quite possibly some more mechanics I still haven't seen, I'll report back when I've seen more.
 
That is hot fire!
Hopefully the whole trailer will be molten lava!

lol the fog around the character's waist looks a lot like a ball gown

She likes to be reconstituted in styyllleee.

But I want it now!
Soooooon. I'm so excited!!

That gives me goosebumps.
Thank you! The team has been working so hard for the last few weeks to make the best debut trailer possible. I really hope folks like it!

My REAPER project consists of 155 channels.....
 
I played around to see what I could do in orthogonal. Turns out I can do some escher. Not sure how I would implement this in the procedural stuff I'm doing, however I will play around with it the handcrafted levels I want to make as well.

Ignore the gif artifacts.

That looks so cool.

I know the mechanic has been done before, but at a certain point in the rotation you could actually walk across to that block which, from another angle, is totally separate to the main ones. edit: I suspect that's what you mean by doing some escher!
 
Hi guys, so I'm ready to start developing for real my new game idea but the recent Unity thread has gave me doubts about what engine I should use. I made a game already in Unity (for a school project, which I asked for help in this very thread a while go) and it was an fun experience and I learned a lot but for my new game I absolutely need to have 60FPS. I want to make a 2D pixel art beat 'em up (kinda) game and I want super smooth animations and gameplay. I don't think I'm a good programmer yet (studying engineering for CS) but I know my way around and with the Unity school project the easiest part was the programming (pixel art is hard). So, is Unity fine for a 2D 60FPS game? Does it depend on my code optimization?
 

LordRaptor

Member
So, is Unity fine for a 2D 60FPS game?

Unity has something like 45% marketshare of mobile game engine support, so if you can think of a 60fps 2D game you've played on mobile, there's like a 50-50 chance it was made in Unity.

Much of the backlash AFAICS is its use in games that it is arguably a bad choice for in the first place, or that in general are difficult to achieve high performance with; something like Firewatch (large open world, long viewing distances, no between level loading) would be very difficult to get flawless performance with in any engine even with big AAA style teams working on it.
 

cbox

Member
Whenever I come across people who have complaints about unity, I send them a video for the forest and tell them to think about asset creation and art direction before engine choices.
 

snarge

Member
Hi guys, so I'm ready to start developing for real my new game idea but the recent Unity thread has gave me doubts about what engine I should use. I made a game already in Unity (for a school project, which I asked for help in this very thread a while go) and it was an fun experience and I learned a lot but for my new game I absolutely need to have 60FPS. I want to make a 2D pixel art beat 'em up (kinda) game and I want super smooth animations and gameplay. I don't think I'm a good programmer yet (studying engineering for CS) but I know my way around and with the Unity school project the easiest part was the programming (pixel art is hard). So, is Unity fine for a 2D 60FPS game? Does it depend on my code optimization?

No one in that thread has a clue what they are talking about. 2D 60FPS is easily achievable with Unity, I'm building a game with shit tons of bullets, texts, and nonsense on the screen at all times. It's solid 60fps.

People always cite garbage collection with Unity. If only there were some documentation on how to deal with it.
And optimization is a word few programmers understand, let alone gamers. You don't have to be a great programmer to write optimized code, you just have to do research and follow the rules.
That last article is a bit dated, but still tons of great info there. There are tons of other articles about writing optimized code in Unity if you look for em.

Also, GameMaker and UE4 would be fine for your game, it's really up to you.
 

Exuro

Member
That looks so cool.

I know the mechanic has been done before, but at a certain point in the rotation you could actually walk across to that block which, from another angle, is totally separate to the main ones. edit: I suspect that's what you mean by doing some escher!
Exactly! Yesterday I spent some time figuring out what movement the player would need to move like this. Here's a gif showing the game view as well as the scene view. Notice that I had to add a "shadow" player as when the player teleports the shadow is gone off the original block.


Now I need to actually implement this into my movement data structure so that when I'm at a certain angle nodes that connect are referencing each other so I can move on them, meaning I'll need to update the node system when the camera rotates.
 

DNAbro

Member
No one in that thread has a clue what they are talking about. 2D 60FPS is easily achievable with Unity, I'm building a game with shit tons of bullets, texts, and nonsense on the screen at all times. It's solid 60fps.

People always cite garbage collection with Unity. If only there were some documentation on how to deal with it.
And optimization is a word few programmers understand, let alone gamers. You don't have to be a great programmer to write optimized code, you just have to do research and follow the rules.
That last article is a bit dated, but still tons of great info there. There are tons of other articles about writing optimized code in Unity if you look for em.

Also, GameMaker and UE4 would be fine for your game, it's really up to you.

thanks for the articles.
 
No one in that thread has a clue what they are talking about. 2D 60FPS is easily achievable with Unity, I'm building a game with shit tons of bullets, texts, and nonsense on the screen at all times. It's solid 60fps.

People always cite garbage collection with Unity. If only there were some documentation on how to deal with it.
And optimization is a word few programmers understand, let alone gamers. You don't have to be a great programmer to write optimized code, you just have to do research and follow the rules.
That last article is a bit dated, but still tons of great info there. There are tons of other articles about writing optimized code in Unity if you look for em.

Also, GameMaker and UE4 would be fine for your game, it's really up to you.

Awesome info, thanks! Since I have some experience in Unity all stick to that.
 

Jumplion

Member
Exactly! Yesterday I spent some time figuring out what movement the player would need to move like this. Here's a gif showing the game view as well as the scene view. Notice that I had to add a "shadow" player as when the player teleports the shadow is gone off the original block.



Now I need to actually implement this into my movement data structure so that when I'm at a certain angle nodes that connect are referencing each other so I can move on them, meaning I'll need to update the node system when the camera rotates.

Oi, that's really clever. I probably would have over complicated it by putting everything in a 2D array, getting the player input and whenever it changed move it towards the new position in the array (if it was available).

Your way is good to.
 

ZServ

Member
Still cracking Babels story! Getting a new build ready with the majority of the first 2 areas (Aldsea, Transyl) open for play. This build is probably between 4-9 hours long, depending on if you've played it previously or not. Also has 4 boss fights, 2 dungeons, and 7 or so side quests. It's incredibly strange looking back at the older builds of the game now, and humbling to see how far it (and I) have come. I can't wait to see what the final product looks like.

Speaking of final products, I've been remaking bits and pieces of the first dungeon this week, as well. Where the once was a puzzle room very similar to the Lost Woods in Ocarina of Time, it's now much more intricate (not complicated, but intricate), which will hopefully make it a bit more than a room that the player goes through in 30 seconds and never thinks back on. And this:


Is the result of changing the "look" of the dungeon to match the numerous other structures in the game that have changes. I wasn't a fan of just one dungeon using the whole "you can see the outside kinda-sorta-not-really," and the RPG Maker community is an incredibly talented one. So, I went through and redesigned the dungeon to take advantage of this "new" look. Looking for feedback. If it isn't painfully obvious, new is on the left, old is on the right. Thoughts? I felt that the old was too "all over the place," and tried to reel it in for the new iteration.

HEY! WILDFIRE DEV! I PLAYED YOUR THING!

The vine moving when the player touches it is a fantastic touch. Perhaps something while the player is climbing it? Swimming down while in water seems a tad fast. While you can click between the different areas on the map, having to hit enter to actually enter them creates a bit of a disconnect, I suggest that clicking the shield should make you enter a level. Perhaps make the shield zoom towards the screen as your fader? Text sometimes displayed strangely, and while the game looked fine, text looked off.

Throwing fire at an enemy seemed to bounce off their head? Oil speeding up your movement is fucking fun. On the tutorial level where it teaches you to grow vines by throwing Earth, I suggest a safe space that requires the player to "grab" Earth from the ceiling, and then throw it on the roof somewhere else by jumping. See this video I took:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYN7i4VipQg

Throwing friends near checkpoints doesn't seem to rescue them? I dont know if that's intentional or not, but I think it should, personally. Nevermind, it does. Perhaps the range on the rescue radius could be bumped by a small amount?

This guy wouldn't follow me for some reason:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_N5sNicz9nM

Restarting the level didn't fix it, either. In fact, even changing levels, going back to the world map, and then back in didn't fix it. The first time I did the tutorial level about water making tiles slippery, the archer didn't spawn.

Game is fun as hell. Love it. The fact that you have a level editor in the alpha was a mistake, though. I'm gonna play the SHIT outta this. Sorry for the random thoughts kinda thrown about. :)
 
Put my two weeks notice in today! Not too long from now I'll be jumping head first into full time indie game dev. Scary but it feels more right than anything I've done in a while.
 
Put my two weeks notice in today! Not too long from now I'll be jumping head first into full time indie game dev. Scary but it feels more right than anything I've done in a while.

I made this jump in 2014, and while most of 2015 was really rocky going (especially with the birth of my first child), things turned around towards the end of the year, and 2016 is looking pretty promising.
 
Slowly getting there with rebuilding.

Got the camera control done, and the basic wall hiding finished again. Changed the map to daytime so you can see easier

9a54187847.gif


I cannot for the life of me figure out why the transparent material won't cast shadows correctly though, it makes the switch back really jarring.

Regardless - onto removing the magic system and add the XP and levelling back in!
 

_machine

Member
I cannot for the life of me figure out why the transparent material won't cast shadows correctly though, it makes the switch back really jarring.
If I remember correctly, that's just a limitation UE4 has because of the deferred shading approach. Transparent shadows in general are just a rendering nightmare, but at least with forward rendering it was a bit easier to manage.
 
If I remember correctly, that's just a limitation UE4 has because of the deferred shading approach. Transparent shadows in general are just a rendering nightmare, but at least with forward rendering it was a bit easier to manage.

Damn :/ thankfully you will usually be facing the other direction so shouldn't notice it too much
 

Noogy

Member
So, is Unity fine for a 2D 60FPS game? Does it depend on my code optimization?

Performance in any engine depends on your code optimization. And of course your target platform. On PC you can get away with a lot, on iOS or Vita, not so much.

For what it's worth, I've been pretty impressed with 2D (non-pixel) in Unity so far. And of course 3D has been pretty nice. But both still require some decent optimization as Unity has some serious overhead (speaking as someone who came from XNA).
 

Kalentan

Member
a3Jb.png


Anyone able to give me some tips on my Forest and Fields tileset? It's still a WIP, so somethings are missing or going to change.
 
a3Jb.png


Anyone able to give me some tips on my Forest and Fields tileset? It's still a WIP, so somethings are missing or going to change.

Well, each time you post an update I see definite progress! :)

Now, as for my two cents: I think you've fallen into a fair common trap for people who are starting out, in that you've drawn different parts of your game at different resolutions. If I compare one pixel of your trees (Lets say the outline) to the outline on your characters, the character's outline is much thicker, and it makes it all look a wee bit out of place.

As for details and things, there's still quite a bit of work to go, but in my opinion you should focus on one thing at a time rather than trying to put out all the fires at once.

Anyway, it's nice to see your progress and I'm glad that you're sticking with it!

Ahhhhh we're so close I can taste it... Two damn days!

Looking slick! How many of you are working on this?
 

ROFISH

Neo Member
Been working on my own game for a small while now, and I got a small set of attack animations that I like and would like to show/get opinions:

playchar2.gif


Note that the left hand and feet will eventually be animated independently of the attack so you can walk and attack, run and attack, etc.
 

Kalentan

Member
Well, each time you post an update I see definite progress! :)

Now, as for my two cents: I think you've fallen into a fair common trap for people who are starting out, in that you've drawn different parts of your game at different resolutions. If I compare one pixel of your trees (Lets say the outline) to the outline on your characters, the character's outline is much thicker, and it makes it all look a wee bit out of place.

As for details and things, there's still quite a bit of work to go, but in my opinion you should focus on one thing at a time rather than trying to put out all the fires at once.

Anyway, it's nice to see your progress and I'm glad that you're sticking with

Thanks!! Also as for the character outlines. So I actually draw the characters at one pixels but when I blow them up, the outlines become two pixels wide. I'm wondering if maybe I should go in and shave a layer off of the characters outlines after making them bigger.
 

JulianImp

Member
So, I realized I had made a couple big mistakes when making my VN system add-on for Unity, so reworking the whole sprite side of things to implement characters is going to take a while. Meanwhile, I've been prototyping a local co-op PvE arena shooter, but still have nothing but code to show for it, so I guess I'll wait a bit longer before showing any screenshots. The only character in the game for now is a floating blender monkey head, for example.

So far I have code for a fairly robust modifier system (think attack+20 or movement speed x1.25), a middleman for Unity's archaic input system (wish we could change bindings in runtime, but AFAIK they still haven't exposed that), systems for character movement and attacking, an overheal system for HP shields and a cooldown-based ability system, all using the MVC design pattern, which is going to become really useful once I actually start making enemies.

I kind of got sidetracked looking into League of Legends after a fellow game designer of mine told me about it, which was when I realized I had a similar ability system in mind without having played any MOBAs. It was a good experience to learn how a character's ability kit is built and how it's also tied to the character's aesthetic as a whole.

By the way, I saw this video about how a guy made particle VFX for LoL, and he appears to have lots of other videos showcasing how to create a variety of neat visual effects, so here's the link in case somebody happens to find it useful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6S-NEF-UlM
 
I apologize if this is a common question but as a literal bottom of Everest beginner, I wanted to know what PC specs people would recommend for game dev work. My current 3 programs I would be experimenting with are Game Maker, Unity and RPG Maker MV. I'm no expert in 3D modeling so the scope I have now is mostly in the 2D and isometric realm. I'm just wondering if I have to consider a big money investment for a new PC for the purposes of dev work.
 
I apologize if this is a common question but as a literal bottom of Everest beginner, I wanted to know what PC specs people would recommend for game dev work. My current 3 programs I would be experimenting with are Game Maker, Unity and RPG Maker MV. I'm no expert in 3D modeling so the scope I have now is mostly in the 2D and isometric realm. I'm just wondering if I have to consider a big money investment for a new PC for the purposes of dev work.
If you are going to be doing lots of 2D work I reckon you will be CPU bound, mostly, outside of post-FX. I don't think you would need a beefy rig to run anything, tbh. Decent CPU/GPU combo, mid-range and you are golden.
 

Jumplion

Member
http://gfycat.com/TeemingForcefulCirriped

Changed up the wave system so now it queues up all the waves, activates them one at a time, and when the queue is empty randomly put in all the waves again.

If anyone here has an android I would SUPER appreciate you trying out the latest build of the game and help me playtest. I want to see where it's too hard, too easy, how the controls are on various phones, that kind of stuff.
(ignore the placeholder audio, I'll get less-copyrightable music in the near future :p)
 

Kalentan

Member
Hmm... So I tried to make my characters sort of only one pixel wide.

t4Jb.png


The first one is the base one which is normally 1x1 but is made 2x2 when it is blown to 200%.
The second is the inital attempt which is mainly just reducing the outline.
The third one I actually went in and reduced most of the designs and such to 1x1 but keeping somethings 2x2 that wouldn't transfer to 1x1.

J4Jb.png


So this is an example on the map. The left one is how I described the third one above and the girl next to him ONLY had her outline reduced (and some small things.)

Edit: Updated again:

05Jb.png


Made his legs longer and made his chest shorter.

Edit 2:

L5Jb.png


Holy shit... Just the result of someone mentioning the outline thing and now... I think it's really progressing!

I'm really liking what it's starting to look like.
 
Text sometimes displayed strangely, and while the game looked fine, text looked off.
All great feedback, thanks! Can I ask what resolution you were playing at? (And if windowed/fullscreen).

The game window renders at 1/2 of 1920 x 1080, so it's pixel perfect when full screen at at that resolution, but anything else starts to cause corruption in text and characters, which is something I've yet to figure out how to deal with.
 

Exuro

Member
I think I'm going insane. I'm using unity and made a private variable for a class. I set it to zero in both start, awake and the update function. I call a function of the class that prints out the variable in another class. The print out is not zero and I can't figure out why. The only assignment for it is 0 in those places I set and it's STILL not correct. I closed out unity and reopened it and I got an invalid '.info' file discovered warning and the value is correct now. Geeze this is annoying. >_>

edit:awesome its back... and now the game is freezing with no errors showing up.

okay I'm a dummy. I had a reference to a prefab and thought it would use the prefab clones data. >_> a learning process.
 
All great feedback, thanks! Can I ask what resolution you were playing at? (And if windowed/fullscreen).

The game window renders at 1/2 of 1920 x 1080, so it's pixel perfect when full screen at at that resolution, but anything else starts to cause corruption in text and characters, which is something I've yet to figure out how to deal with.

I think the solution for this is to double-buffer (which I think is actually quadruple buffering because GM already triple buffers, but I digress). Use a surface for your render target other than the default (application surface) and then draw your surface scaled in the post GUI event.
 

ZServ

Member
All great feedback, thanks! Can I ask what resolution you were playing at? (And if windowed/fullscreen).

The game window renders at 1/2 of 1920 x 1080, so it's pixel perfect when full screen at at that resolution, but anything else starts to cause corruption in text and characters, which is something I've yet to figure out how to deal with.
1920x1080, windowed. I didn't notice any corruption amongst the environment or characters, but the text REALLY stood out. Which is intentional, but yeah :p
 

correojon

Member
Wildfire demo impressions:

First of all, before going into the "negative" points I´d like to make clear that I think the mechanics in this game are awesome, the presentation is superb in all aspects (graphics, audio, UI...) and I can see this turning out as a really amazing game. You´re making something very unique, congrats!

I played this on fullscreen and also got the weird text effect, the text was showing clearly in windowed mode but after going fullscreen it had that weird effect others talked about. It also was a bit small, I think you could make it a tad bigger. I think I was using 1920x1080, but I´m not sure about this.
I played using a XBOX360 controller, character movement looked great but felt a bit sluggish sometimes, specially when having to aim. To jump and shoot at the same time you have to do some weird things with the controller, I think it would be much better if you changed the control scheme to not use the right stick at all. You could do something like when holding RT, the left stick controls the shooting reticule, movement gets disabled and releasing RT will make the player shoot. Anyway, aiming with the right stick was too sensitive for my taste and it ended up being frustrating trying to shoot to a specific target, it would be better to make the reticule less sensitive to the stick input or better yet, make it automatically snap to close targets when it approaches them. These difficulties aiming killed the gameplay pacing for me, aiming and shooting should be more natural and easier to do, specially since they are core mechanics the player will be using a lot of times during the game.

Another thing I didn´t like is that sometimes the messages lasted for the whole room, I think it would be nicer to make them appear only when applicable (for example if the message is teaching the player how to grab grass, make it appear at the begginning near the grabbable grass and disappear once the player gets past that point).

I got a couple of bugs:
  • One in the room where you have to use the whistle to make allies follow you: one of them stayed behind and he wouln´t react to my whistle. I tried carrying him myself but he just stood there, though I may have been a bit too far when I pressed RT. Killing myself didn´t seem to solve it, but restarting the level did.
  • I forced an archer to some spikes and he died, but then I made another one fall down to the same pit and he survived it, he stood there in the spikes as it was normal ground.
  • Sometimes (can´t exactly remember where, sorry) I got keyboard prompts instead of controller ones. It only happened once or twice (I´m not talking about the "press SPACE to continue" messages).
  • Shooting water in a pond to make a bubble didn´t work a couple of times, though it may have been that due to the stick sensitivity I missed the shot at the last moment and hit the corner of the wall instead.

Regarding level design, I don´t know if you made it this way just for the demo so you could show and test all the mechanics, but I think you shouldn´t make the final game follow this layout of small tutorial after small tutorial. I think you should mesh together in single bigger levels all the tutorials related to one concept like fire, water...and set it so the player has more situations to play with them. It felt a bit disapointing learning new cool mechanics to only be able to use them in the example and then go into a new level that didn´t even allow it. What´s more, teaching so many things one after the other made them accumulate and some players may feel overwhelmed and forget some of them. It would enforce the learning process to make a level where you first learn to capture fire, then to burn grass, then to use smoke to blind enemies or to ascend/descend, then to use a smoke bomb, everything interconnected with gameplay sections where the player has more freedom to use them. Everything will be connected by a theme (fire in this case) and the new knowledge will sink in better.

Have you played Mark of the Ninja? Your game made me remember it a lot, you should give it a try if you haven´t, it may give you some ideas.

This game has a lot of potential, I´ll be following it with interest :)

If anything I said seemed too harsh please excuse me, english is not my first language and I may sound a bit "aggressive" when trying to specify something, just know that it´s not my intention and I´m only trying to help the best that I can.
 

Lautaro

Member
Ahhhhh we're so close I can taste it... Two damn days!

Send coffee please...

mbnefnA.gif

Game's name?



Oh man, I'm so burned out. I'm trying to add the last features and content to Nomad Fleet but it feels like is taking forever (I guess its the 80-20 rule). Gladly, I think I finally know how to pull the alternate ending I want the game to have. I'll probably ask for your help with the text again though because my english is still not perfect.
 

Vanguard

Member
So in most things with computers or what not, they usually have a colour. Matrix was green, GiTS1 was green with 2 being orange, Deus Ex orange, Fallout I think of green (NV was orange? But it's also customisable anyway, but I still think of green when I think of Fallout), etc.

So with that said, I want a colour, but I can't decide... so here's a list of them: https://imgur.com/a/bjhYM I'm leaning towards cyan personally.
I could make it customisable like Fallout, but trying to pick a default one for now.


The very first time you get to control your character in-game:

Needs some contrast work and desaturation but I dig the palette. First draft and all.

Really liking that!

Ahhhhh we're so close I can taste it... Two damn days!

Send coffee please...

mbnefnA.gif

Looking slick!
 
So in most things with computers or what not, they usually have a colour. Matrix was green, GiTS1 was green with 2 being orange, Deus Ex orange, Fallout I think of green (NV was orange? But it's also customisable anyway, but I still think of green when I think of Fallout), etc.

So with that said, I want a colour, but I can't decide... so here's a list of them: https://imgur.com/a/bjhYM I'm leaning towards cyan personally.
I could make it customisable like Fallout, but trying to pick a default one for now.




Really liking that!
I like the first one, the burnt orange color (viewing on mobile right now). It is easy on the eyes.

And thank you :D I'm not the largest fan of purple but this looks stellar in contrast with the blue cables and gold pin connectors. There are a lot of animated effects that are going into the level to give the geometry a bit more life not seen in the pic. I want the levels to feel like they are "running" as an active process so that theme will carry throughout the game and play a part in a few of the later levels.
 
So in most things with computers or what not, they usually have a colour. Matrix was green, GiTS1 was green with 2 being orange, Deus Ex orange, Fallout I think of green (NV was orange? But it's also customisable anyway, but I still think of green when I think of Fallout), etc.

So with that said, I want a colour, but I can't decide... so here's a list of them: https://imgur.com/a/bjhYM I'm leaning towards cyan personally.
I could make it customisable like Fallout, but trying to pick a default one for now.
Can you tell me more about the mood, tone, and mechanics for the game? Because they all convey different ones to me, so I'd wanna make a suggestion that's appropriate.
 
The purple screen really stands out to me. I can't remember ever seeing a purple display tint before.

Second choice is the first one. It reminds me of Portal.

portal_credits_desktop_1024x768_wallpaper-350616.jpg
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom