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[Figments]

You don't need art to get started. Just start programming with squares and circles.

TBH, my game has the art style it does because I can't draw ha! As Wreck said, start with simple shapes. My first project was a text-based, time-driven RPG combat simulator done in Code::Blocks.

As for a design doc. Limit it to scribbles and notes. Docs are a great way to limit progress, IMO. Note key elements, simplify the plot and get to experimentation. When you are confident in your skills at iteration then begin preproduction. Or even fly the whole thing blind, depending on your project. A friend of mine spent a good 3 months writing an entire doc for a game 2 years ago and sent it to Shuhei Yoshida, for some odd reason. Over 150 pages of gameplay elements, story, literally the entire game. Never heard back. He could have had a working prototype in that time and sent vertical slices to various development portals, started gaining interest for it online, etc. He still pretty much writes docs waiting for something to happen.

If you are just starting, experiment first to see your weaknesses and progress. Or quickly gather teammates to help you iterate. Seriously. Docs are mere guidelines. Many devs don't even use them. If you have your game in your head then what is stopping you from progressing? A doc won't get you iterating!

Grab Unity, Stencyl, Construct, UE4, etc. Start building small slices. Start building a team. No time like the present!

Thanks for the tips! (And sorry about the late reply )

I've actually been cleaning out my OneDrive account recently, due to all the leftover stuff from previous years that I don't need anymore, and I stumbled across the rules document I drafted in an attempt to make a board game that functioned kind of like a cross between Risk and Monopoly.

I'm gonna rework the rules a bit and see if I can't set it up in Unity. Hopefully it all goes smoothly, but I can't say for sure.

 

[Jacksinthe]

Programmers, how do you guys do event systems? Have a global dispatcher on which listener/handlers register for events, and other things trigger events? Or have the event stuff on the game instances?

Right now I'm using the C# event system, which is the latter, and I'm trying to figure out a good way to do a stats tracker system. It seems like if I went with the global dispatcher way, things would be a whole lot simpler.

It depends on the scope of the event, for me. If it is a stat tracker that sounds like it can be global. If it is situation based then I would compartmentalize and instance it. I dislike having too many dependencies so I compartmentalize early and often (like voting in Chicago, heyoooooo).

 

[lionplex]

Game I've been working on solo for a little over the past year now, Neon Krieger Yamato. Brawly platformer with fighting game style characters...

 

[adixon]

Game I've been working on solo for a little over the past year now, Neon Krieger Yamato. Brawly platformer with fighting game style characters...

Your game looks really fun, and your website makes me feel like a ten year old in a game store, which I think is a good thing.

 

[EDarkness]

Shit, this hit me hard. Game dev can feel like a curse sometimes. You know what's the worst? The guilt when you're not devoting 100% of your time to it.

This is a big problem for me. Finding the right balance is something I've struggled with for a long time. When I'm not working on my game I get that guilty feeling and I work on it anyway which can create problems. For this reason, I burn out on projects fast and build up a huge backlog. I'll admit that I've gotten better in recent months as Skullforge has progressed fairly well. Though the last couple of weeks I haven't done much work due to being sick, moving, and just wanting to catch up on other games. Been going steady with FFXIV recently, too. Of course, working another job doesn't help, either.

They never said making a game was easy. Sometimes I wish it was.

 

[plagiarize]

Since I dropped a bunch of shots from the mall section and got good feedback, I want to show off some of the more gameplay spaces, which normally I don't screenshot because they aren't too interesting looking. Cubes and such. Well continuing with things become more complex looking as the game goes on level 7 has started displaying a style something kind of art deco meets native American art meets running paint.

I'm going to thumbnail the rest of these as they aren't as detailed.



Had a rough day today. Stupid tax stuff. We owe a shit load, but fortunately we escape having to pay any extra penalties and we have time to get the money together. But yeah. Eurgh. Working on my game has been a great way of taking my mind off it. It can be surprisingly zen sometimes.

 

[bkw]

It depends on the scope of the event, for me. If it is a stat tracker that sounds like it can be global. If it is situation based then I would compartmentalize and instance it. I dislike having too many dependencies so I compartmentalize early and often (like voting in Chicago, heyoooooo).

Yeah, on a previous game I did all events through a global dispatcher and it felt very unorganized. Any object can basically talk to any other object by sending a message into the ether. Very easy to get sloppy. One of the main reasons I when with instance based events for my current game.

 

[Jacksinthe]

Yeah, on a previous game I did all events through a global dispatcher and it felt very unorganized. Any object can basically talk to any other object by sending a message into the ether. Very easy to get sloppy. One of the main reasons I when with instance based events for my current game.

I try never to use globals, if possible. I always reference on contact, reference by name, tag. There are cases where I publicly allow references but when I do I use a handler to store the reference then have objects ask the handler for information directly instead of sending a request to thin air since that is insane for chewing up cycles. Sometimes you just have to do it, though. One offs every now and again when you can control them to hit frame times are OK.

-

Submitted my game docs to Sony tonight. Crossing my fingers all goes well like it did for XO. I wasted zero time after my approval ha! IC hits in a few weeks - super excited to get that simple little thing out!

 

[grindamasta]

Hi there!

This is the first image of Crazy Pixel Streaker, a project that I am making with some friends. It’s a crazy retro arcade that allows up to 4 players (coop and competitive). We play as a streaker that jumps into the field and first starts beating up the security staff and later the army… and that’s when the real adventure begins!

We are Lubiterum, a small spanish indie team of 5 people who have created some games for jams, an Android game, and even a map for Goat Simulator and a game for Spectrum lol. We worked remotely in our free time, but a few months ago we were chosen to join a videogame development incubator in Barcelona. Only 8 teams made the cut and among those we can find the buddies of Twin Souls: Path of Shadows.
We are now working in an office building and our main goal is to get established as a company and maybe get a publisher/funding. We are living off our savings, and a small grant, so we can only survive for a few months!

We showed our game at the Fun&Serious Fest, a pretty important fair here in Spain, where we got good feedback from the public. We plan to launch a playable demo soon and join Steam’s Greenlight.

Hope you like it!

 

[SpacePirate Ridley]

Hi there!

This is the first image of Crazy Pixel Streaker, a project that I am making with some friends. It’s a crazy retro arcade that allows up to 4 players (coop and competitive). We play as a streaker that jumps into the field and first starts beating up the security staff and later the army… and that’s when the real adventure begins!

We are Lubiterum, a small spanish indie team of 5 people who have created some games for jams, an Android game, and even a map for Goat Simulator and a game for Spectrum lol. We worked remotely in our free time, but a few months ago we were chosen to join a videogame development incubator in Barcelona. Only 8 teams made the cut and among those we can find the buddies of Twin Souls: Path of Shadows.
We are now working in an office building and our main goal is to get established as a company and maybe get a publisher/funding. We are living off our savings, and a small grant, so we can only survive for a few months!

We showed our game at the Fun&Serious Fest, a pretty important fair here in Spain, where we got good feedback from the public. We plan to launch a playable demo soon and join Steam’s Greenlight.

Hope you like it!

Yay! More spanish devs!
The game idea of Crazy Pixel Streaker sounds great!

 

[akami]

Hello all,
I wanted to present the game I´m currently working on, Arco.
the game is a new take on the puzzle and tower defense genre, we want to mix the methodic gameplay of games like plants versus zombies and puzzle quest with a frantic arcade gameplay.

Hope you guys like it.

 

[oxrock]

Hi there!

This is the first image of Crazy Pixel Streaker, a project that I am making with some friends. It’s a crazy retro arcade that allows up to 4 players (coop and competitive). We play as a streaker that jumps into the field and first starts beating up the security staff and later the army… and that’s when the real adventure begins!

We are Lubiterum, a small spanish indie team of 5 people who have created some games for jams, an Android game, and even a map for Goat Simulator and a game for Spectrum lol. We worked remotely in our free time, but a few months ago we were chosen to join a videogame development incubator in Barcelona. Only 8 teams made the cut and among those we can find the buddies of Twin Souls: Path of Shadows.
We are now working in an office building and our main goal is to get established as a company and maybe get a publisher/funding. We are living off our savings, and a small grant, so we can only survive for a few months!

We showed our game at the Fun&Serious Fest, a pretty important fair here in Spain, where we got good feedback from the public. We plan to launch a playable demo soon and join Steam’s Greenlight.

Hope you like it!

I laughed out loud when I read what your game was about, but in a good way. It just sounds like a lot of good silly fun.

 

[taku]

Hello all,
I wanted to present the game I´m currently working on, Arco.
the game is a new take on the puzzle and tower defense genre, we want to mix the methodic gameplay of games like plants versus zombies and puzzle quest with a frantic arcade gameplay.

Looks cute! It kind of reminds me of Might and Magic: Clash of Heroes (which is a good thing).
Also, I don't know why but that placeholder text made me chuckle.

 

[SpacePirate Ridley]

Hello all,
I wanted to present the game I´m currently working on, Arco.
the game is a new take on the puzzle and tower defense genre, we want to mix the methodic gameplay of games like plants versus zombies and puzzle quest with a frantic arcade gameplay.

Hope you guys like it.

The forest scenery is beautiful. Love all the detail of the leaves and grass.

 

[Dead Prince]

Hello all,
I wanted to present the game I´m currently working on, Arco.
the game is a new take on the puzzle and tower defense genre, we want to mix the methodic gameplay of games like plants versus zombies and puzzle quest with a frantic arcade gameplay.

Hope you guys like it.

there's PS button prompts.

 

[OldmanAndroid]

Recording footage for my trailer today, using Open Broadcast Software. Do you think its passable to record it at 720p, or should I be aiming for 1080p? Im getting some framerate hiccups at 1080p.

 

[Apoc29]

Hello all,
I wanted to present the game I´m currently working on, Arco.
the game is a new take on the puzzle and tower defense genre, we want to mix the methodic gameplay of games like plants versus zombies and puzzle quest with a frantic arcade gameplay.

Hope you guys like it.

This looks very similiar to Might & Magic: Clash of Heroes, which is not a bad thing as that is an excellent game. The frantic arcade gameplay does sound interesting if this is not actually turn-based.

 

[oxrock]

Recording footage for my trailer today, using Open Broadcast Software. Do you think its passable to record it at 720p, or should I be aiming for 1080p? Im getting some framerate hiccups at 1080p.

80% of people watch trailors on mobile devices (made up statistic) that don't normally utilize 1080p, and especially if it's not really high def art, i would think 720p would probably be fine. I think choppy recorded gameplay would be a bigger drawback than resolution. I also highly advise waiting for advice from someone who knows wtf they're talking about.

 

[friken]

Game I've been working on solo for a little over the past year now, Neon Krieger Yamato. Brawly platformer with fighting game style characters...

Looking fun! And is a great example of something I want to talk about. I have had a few comments lately on my dev blog, tig, and indiedb that I need a solid landing page / first post that captures the essence of what StarDiver is. I agree.

I am jealous of how easy it is to get the idea of what the game is like for games like "Neon Krieger Yamato". A one line description works great and with a good gif players just get it.

For those on here that have seen StarDiver posts and immediately thought "Cool looks like StarControl, or StarFlight", I love it! Unfortunately, very few gamers know the reference and there just are not modern examples of that sort of game to draw on. So.... today I am going to take a stab at a new landing page for my blog site to try to best describe and show "What is StarDiver". I will post a link here shortly and would love feedback on what I can do to improve the copy, describe the game, and get players excited about what I am making.

 

[OldmanAndroid]

80% of people watch trailors on mobile devices (made up statistic) that don't normally utilize 1080p, and especially if it's not really high def art, i would think 720p would probably be fine. I think choppy recorded gameplay would be a bigger drawback than resolution. I also highly advise waiting for advice from someone who knows wtf they're talking about.

True true, its not high def art, so 720p it is, thanks. We have a few flickering lights in the game, not sure if we should put in seizure warnings.

 

[Jacksinthe]

80% of people watch trailors on mobile devices (made up statistic) that don't normally utilize 1080p, and especially if it's not really high def art, i would think 720p would probably be fine. I think choppy recorded gameplay would be a bigger drawback than resolution. I also highly advise waiting for advice from someone who knows wtf they're talking about.

Most of today's devices do use 1080 or higher - PPI is through the roof on devices these days. 1080 I would consider to be a standard, if not the minimum.

Not to mention lots of PC gamers still do sit in front of their monitors to watch videos. 1080p is a must and now that YouTube supports 60fps - that's a must, if possible.

 

[Jacksinthe]

True true, its not high def art, so 720p it is, thanks. We have a few flickering lights in the game, not sure if we should put in seizure warnings.

The problem isn't the artwork, it's interpolation. Go watch some of our videos of (no real name yet) at 720, then switch to 1080/60.

Even though the game is designed around a 192x108 frame - at 720, it still looks blurry, even though there is nothing but straight lines everywhere at 10x10 size "pixels". Interpolation kills your video, not the artwork.

 

[cbox]

Most of today's devices do use 1080 or higher - PPI is through the roof on devices these days. 1080 I would consider to be a standard, if not the minimum.

Not to mention lots of PC gamers still do sit in front of their monitors to watch videos. 1080p is a must and now that YouTube supports 60fps - that's a must, if possible.

My release trailer for Shwip will be 1080/60 Gotta show what people will experience first hand!

 

[OldmanAndroid]

The problem isn't the artwork, it's interpolation. Go watch some of our videos of (no real name yet) at 720, then switch to 1080/60.

Even though the game is designed around a 192x108 frame - at 720, it still looks blurry, even though there is nothing but straight lines everywhere at 10x10 size "pixels". Interpolation kills your video, not the artwork.

Ya, this is true, just checked out your videos. Problem is my mediocre PC, recording at 1080p is causing too many framerate issues. Are you using OBS for recording?

 

[Jacksinthe]

Ya, this is true, just checked out your videos. Problem is my mediocre PC, recording at 1080p is causing too many framerate issues. Are you using OBS for recording?

I used to. But it can chip away at performance. Testing Fraps, Open Broadcast and Bandicam shows Bandicam gave the best recordings with the lowest footprint, for me, at least.

It also depends on what you want to edit with as some editors prefer codec A over codec B, etc. So I played around alot until I found a good match between recording and editing software.

Still, some colors appear "off" in my videos using Vegas' preferred Bandicam recording of motion jpeg. Still haven't figured out how to fix but I'm no good at that sort of thing.

 

[akami]

Thanks for the comments ,I recorded a short video , so you can have a better idea of the gameplay.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvT03QDJmTc

 

[Jacksinthe]

Thanks for the comments ,I recorded a short video , so you can have a better idea of the gameplay.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvT03QDJmTc

Looks cool. I was expecting a YOU DIED at the end of the video but was sadly disappoint.

 

[friken]

So, I really thought gfycat had done something to make gifs load slow a month or two ago as suddenly gifs I had made quite a while ago would bog out chrome and be overall terrible. It turns out that Chrome itself has an issue after an update:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=502191

I disabled the plugin suggested in the thread above and boom... problem fixed. I also tested w IE (I haven't used IE in forEVER) and it is not effected by the issue and it actually quite a bit faster dling and rendering large gifs than chrome.

 

[Burt]

So, I really thought gfycat had done something to make gifs load slow a month or two ago as suddenly gifs I had made quite a while ago would bog out chrome and be overall terrible. It turns out that Chrome itself has an issue after an update:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=502191

I disabled the plugin suggested in the thread above and boom... problem fixed. I also tested w IE (I haven't used IE in forEVER) and it is not effected by the issue and it actually quite a bit faster dling and rendering large gifs than chrome.

Hah, I just opened this thread to check in and had to reopen it in Firefox because it was too busted in Chrome. What a mess. Thanks for the link though.

 

[Jobbs]

This happened.

https://twitter.com/adultswimgames/status/563049501393313792

 

[dancrane212]

This happened.

https://twitter.com/adultswimgames/status/563049501393313792

Congrats!

 

[Blizzard]

Sometimes typing out a problem, or talking to someone about it, can lead you to a solution.

I had been thinking about draw-ordering and overlapping in my strategy game, and how to handle foreground and background, and how to sync with animations, and so forth.

Finally, I started typing up a post about the whole problem to think out loud. About halfway through I realized that I may actually know the solution, and maybe it's not all as bad as I feared.

 

[Jacksinthe]

This happened.

https://twitter.com/adultswimgames/status/563049501393313792

Grats dude!

Sometimes typing out a problem, or talking to someone about it, can lead you to a solution.

I had been thinking about draw-ordering and overlapping in my strategy game, and how to handle foreground and background, and how to sync with animations, and so forth.

Finally, I started typing up a post about the whole problem to think out loud. About halfway through I realized that I may actually know the solution, and maybe it's not all as bad as I feared.

I do this plenty, lol. Most of the time I resort to flowcharts to nail down issues but putting it in any kind of viewable form helps.

 

[OldmanAndroid]

This happened.

https://twitter.com/adultswimgames/status/563049501393313792

wow, congrats. Would you sign with a publisher if you were offered?

Ok heres some test footage at 1080p with bad framerate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkrMEilw6zc&feature=youtu.be

Heres footage at 720p with decent framerate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20e_kC2iB00

I dont think the quality difference is really that noticeable, the textures are fairly low-res in the game.

 

[oxrock]

wow, congrats. Would you sign with a publisher if you were offered?

Ok heres some test footage at 1080p with bad framerate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkrMEilw6zc&feature=youtu.be

Heres footage at 720p with decent framerate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20e_kC2iB00

I dont think the quality difference is really that noticeable, the textures are fairly low-res in the game.

personally, i'd go with the 720 over stuttering 1080. Maybe you can hijack someone's computer and get better results?

 

[OldmanAndroid]

personally, i'd go with the 720 over stuttering 1080. Maybe you can hijack someone's computer and get better results?

Ya my brothers recording some test footage in 1080p on his computer just to compare, I almost ran out and grabbed a new laptop, but I'd rather wait until post launch (in case I can afford something better.)

Even with both videos open and paused, im not noticing much of a quality difference. Thanks for checking it out.

 

[plagiarize]

wow, congrats. Would you sign with a publisher if you were offered?

Ok heres some test footage at 1080p with bad framerate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkrMEilw6zc&feature=youtu.be

Heres footage at 720p with decent framerate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20e_kC2iB00

I dont think the quality difference is really that noticeable, the textures are fairly low-res in the game.

I'd definitely go with the 720p option here. You weren't kidding when you said the 1080p trailer had bad frame rate.

 

[Jacksinthe]

wow, congrats. Would you sign with a publisher if you were offered?

Ok heres some test footage at 1080p with bad framerate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkrMEilw6zc&feature=youtu.be

Heres footage at 720p with decent framerate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20e_kC2iB00

I dont think the quality difference is really that noticeable, the textures are fairly low-res in the game.

1080p looks noticeably better except for the framerate. I would try using a different recorder for performance impact, VSYNC on and off, cap if you have to, buffer, test test test to see if you can hit 1080 while recording. Framerate drops are very noticeable.

What framerate do you run on your machine uncapped without recording?

 

[OldmanAndroid]

1080p looks noticeably better except for the framerate. I would try using a different recorder for performance impact, VSYNC on and off, cap if you have to, buffer, test test test to see if you can hit 1080 while recording. Framerate drops are very noticeable.

What framerate do you run on your machine uncapped without recording?

I mostly get a solid 60fps on highest settings without recording...occasion framerate drop to the 40's. Im still using OBS to record, i'm going to download the free version of bandicam to compare. I didnt think of turning Vsync off, good call.

 

[Jacksinthe]

Well that was fast. Xbox One devkits just arrived

I literally emailed them asking to start the ordering process I think Monday. Haven't seen an email yet and I just got them today.

Talk about fast holy shit.

 

[Dead Prince]

Well that was fast. Xbox One devkits just arrived

I literally emailed them asking to start the ordering process I think Monday. Haven't seen an email yet and I just got them today.

Talk about fast holy shit.

based phil spencer.

 

[hotnheavyload]

Completed a game last Friday with a team of people, nothing amazing and certainly nothing I would put in my portfolio.

Have been doing art for other projects, but I'm about to begin my very first solo project and diving into UE4 Blueprint because sadly, I'm quite bad at programming.

 

[OldmanAndroid]

Well that was fast. Xbox One devkits just arrived

I literally emailed them asking to start the ordering process I think Monday. Haven't seen an email yet and I just got them today.

Talk about fast holy shit.

That sounds exciting. I imagine it will be a challenge learning how to implement a save/load system with different consoles?

Bandicam is legit, the 1080p file output is running great on my computer. A bit of framerate drop uploading it to youtube it seems, less so with .mp4 over .avi.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVcL_Q3jRfw&list=UUR6Ch_7uEcWlm2ARfoxgEHA

 

[Jobbs]

Congrats!

Grats dude!

I do this plenty, lol. Most of the time I resort to flowcharts to nail down issues but putting it in any kind of viewable form helps.

wow, congrats. Would you sign with a publisher if you were offered?

thanks guys it was in the works for months and I feel good about the decision.

Well that was fast. Xbox One devkits just arrived

I literally emailed them asking to start the ordering process I think Monday. Haven't seen an email yet and I just got them today.

Talk about fast holy shit.

what's the project?

 

[Korten]

So I have a question for RPG fans. In my game, your character can be these classes:

[NOTE: Some classes may change weapons, such as Warrior turns into Large Axe or Greatsword. Haven't decided yet.]

1. Warrior //Axe and Shield
2. Paladin //Spear and Shield
3. Monk //Dual claws
4. Spellblade(?) //Sword and Shield(?)
5. Mage //Staff
6. Rogue //Dual Daggers
7. Archer //Bow

However you cannot be for gameplay/story purpose.

• Samurai //Katana
• Healer //Hammer
• Sage //Staff

So why do I bring this up? Well this is a total of 10 classes, with 7 being playable. Now unless I remove classes (which I feel would restrict the player customization), doesn't this mean I should have a total of 10 companions, not including the player itself? Cause I need to have a companion per class. Sure this may mean there are two Warriors in the party, but the alternative would be having no Warrior if you pick another class. Also it should be noted that you CANNOT remove the player character from the main party slot, they have to stay.

Opinions? Maybe a suggestion?

 

[Milabrega]

Thanks for the comments ,I recorded a short video , so you can have a better idea of the gameplay.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvT03QDJmTc

This looks good, looking forward to seeing this progress.

 

[BomberMouse]

Programmers, how do you guys do event systems? Have a global dispatcher on which listener/handlers register for events, and other things trigger events? Or have the event stuff on the game instances?

Right now I'm using the C# event system, which is the latter, and I'm trying to figure out a good way to do a stats tracker system. It seems like if I went with the global dispatcher way, things would be a whole lot simpler.

Global dispatchers lead to messy code and a fake feeling of separation of concerns. They usually are a huge performance hit. User carefully, sometimes they make sense though.

Most of the time, a simple delegate or list of delegates on the instance itself is more than enough. Really depends on the language you are using though.

 

[WanderingWind]

So I have a question for RPG fans. In my game, your character can be these classes:

[NOTE: Some classes may change weapons, such as Warrior turns into Large Axe or Greatsword. Haven't decided yet.]

1. Warrior //Axe and Shield
2. Paladin //Spear and Shield
3. Monk //Dual claws
4. Spellblade(?) //Sword and Shield(?)
5. Mage //Staff
6. Rogue //Dual Daggers
7. Archer //Bow

However you cannot be for gameplay/story purpose.

• Samurai //Katana
• Healer //Hammer
• Sage //Staff

So why do I bring this up? Well this is a total of 10 classes, with 7 being playable. Now unless I remove classes (which I feel would restrict the player customization), doesn't this mean I should have a total of 10 companions, not including the player itself? Cause I need to have a companion per class. Sure this may mean there are two Warriors in the party, but the alternative would be having no Warrior if you pick another class. Also it should be noted that you CANNOT remove the player character from the main party slot, they have to stay.

Opinions? Maybe a suggestion?

Right, so I basically ended up cutting down the classes a bit, then giving a branching, one time job class upgrade. So, the thief could become a bowman or an assassin at a story point. That way, I gave the player some choice, without making it a full fledged create a character, I was able to expand the classes and I didn't have to make 10 fleshed out characters. There is no shittier character in RPGs than the guy who exists basically to be a class and not a living inhabitant of the world.

 

[Elitist1945]

Gosh I should really stop putting off trying to learn code and pursue my game dev dream lol

 

[Korten]

Right, so I basically ended up cutting down the classes a bit, then giving a branching, one time job class upgrade. So, the thief could become a bowman or an assassin at a story point. That way, I gave the player some choice, without making it a full fledged create a character, I was able to expand the classes and I didn't have to make 10 fleshed out characters. There is no shittier character in RPGs than the guy who exists basically to be a class and not a living inhabitant of the world.

Hm...

So maybe...

Adventurer becomes

• Warrior
• Paladin
• Monk

Mystic becomes

• Spellblade
• Mage

Thief becomes

• Rouge
• Archer

Medic becomes

• Sage
• Healer

Then I can leave something like Samurai (which actually goes with the background of the character) alone?