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GAF Indie Game Development Thread 2: High Res Work for Low Res Pay

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Loginius

Member
Time to wind down the industry everyone.

Not sure what I'll do now that game developers aren't needed anymore. Become a baker perhaps? I'll have to think about it.

Lol, what is this? :D

Just got done with the art for our main character "Amelie":
attachment.php


Ingame render (Unreal 4), shes now in the hands of our rigger, I hope we can replace the placeholder model we are using ingame atm soon, cant wait to get rid of it!

Ihave three more that I need to finish this week and then I can finally start working on the first environment art pass.
 

Jobbs

Banned
^ the level of detail on the model is undeniably impressive, but I am left wondering if it's practical to maintain this type of detail on a small scale indie project?

can it be animated in a way that suits the detail level, and what about the other characters and the environment?

I'd be curious to see any other material from the game if you have any.
 

LordRaptor

Member
Hello, I'm on the modeling of an area and I wanted to know if someone here know how to blend materials in Unity without the need of an asset store addon ?

Depends what you're trying to do... it's likely going to be either writing a shader that takes multiple texture inputs, or manually combining textures in the mesh UVs in photoshop or similar.

If its the sand in your posted image you want to change, my advice would be to save yourself a lot of headaches and use Unitys built in Terrain system instead which lets you 'paint' multiple textures directly onto the floor and have them blend automatically.

If you want to build your own mesh terrain and use the built in Terrain shader on it, you're gonna have to do some googling around the terms "unity splat map terrain shader" or similar
 

Loginius

Member
^ the level of detail on the model is undeniably impressive, but I am left wondering if it's practical to maintain this type of detail on a small scale indie project?

can it be animated in a way that suits the detail level, and what about the other characters and the environment?

I'd be curious to see any other material from the game if you have any.

Thanks for the feedback, we already have a running prototype so the scope is very clear and I do have some professional experience so I think it is doable, yes.

Ive setup my shaders in a way that allows to use them on all characters with just a switch of some texture-masks, I should be able to finish three more characters this week, I will post them here when the team decides to release them :)

To speed up the process even further I retarget the base mesh to the sculpts of my characters which almost entirely removes the time usually spend on retopologizing.
Were using motion capture for the animation, full body and face. In our tests this gave us really nice results going well with the amount of detail in the model and the time spend on cleanup is far less than what we would need to achieve animations of that quality in any other way.
I would like to add wrinklemaps etc. but we dont have time for that (at least not atm), the animation holds up rather well without them anyway. All of this is in theory and judging from our tests of course, well see how it actually plays out in the end.

For the environments we are using some scanned data and are going for a highly modular approach so I think we are fine on that front. This is also where I have the most experience.
The areas I was the most worried about, Gameplay and Blueprints, are actually almost done so Im feeling pretty good about the whole project at the moment.

Coming from a AAA Production I have to say that the thing saving the most time is having full control over the Art (and even Gameplay) myself. Its always great to have Art-Directors giving feedback and it greatly improves the overall look especially when ur working with a lot of artists and designers but doing constant revisions and trashing + redoing a lot of work obviously eats up a lot of time.
Time I could invest in creating even more art. We will se how much the art direction suffers from it once things start coming together.

If ur interessted in seeing early stuff and wips u can check our unreal thread.
 

sbkodama

Member
Depends what you're trying to do... it's likely going to be either writing a shader that takes multiple texture inputs, or manually combining textures in the mesh UVs in photoshop or similar.

If its the sand in your posted image you want to change, my advice would be to save yourself a lot of headaches and use Unitys built in Terrain system instead which lets you 'paint' multiple textures directly onto the floor and have them blend automatically.

If you want to build your own mesh terrain and use the built in Terrain shader on it, you're gonna have to do some googling around the terms "unity splat map terrain shader" or similar

Thank you for your answer, yes it's mostly for blending my terrain texture like the sand in my screenshot.

Because I map most of my terrain texture are tiled I can't drawn the blending directly in it, the texture would be really too big (the little orange/red thing at the bottom left of my screenshot is a character model to give an idea of the scale of the terrain).
About the built in terrain system my terrain is excavated and I go deep in it, I would have liked to use it but a friend told that it only work for plane terrain so I can't use this too.

I will look into the "unity splat map terrain shader" and custom shader, thank you again for your answer.
 

LordRaptor

Member
Thank you for your answer, yes it's mostly for blending my terrain texture like the sand in my screenshot.

Because I map most of my terrain texture as mosaïque I can't drawn the blending directly in it, the texture would be really too big (the little orange/red thing at the bottom left of my screenshot is a character model to give an idea of the scale of the terrain).
About the built in terrain system my terrain is excavated and I go deep in it, I would have liked to use it but a friend told that it only work for plane terrain so I can't use this too.

I will look into the "unity splat map terrain shader" and custom shader, thank you again for your answer.

I mean, again, I'd strongly suggest using the built-in terrain system to do your terrain, because I have the feeling you're going to hit issues with lighting - from your image I don't see anything you couldn't do with the built in tools - below took me 5 mins to knock up with included standard assets

1qxD97r.jpg


If it helps though, the way the terrain shader works is it takes the R,G,B and A of a vertex painted terrain and lets you assign a different texture to each channel, blending based on those RGBA values so you should be able to paint those vertex colours directly
 

sbkodama

Member
I mean, again, I'd strongly suggest using the built-in terrain system to do your terrain, because I have the feeling you're going to hit issues with lighting - from your image I don't see anything you couldn't do with the built in tools - below took me 5 mins to knock up with included standard assets

1qxD97r.jpg


If it helps though, the way the terrain shader works is it takes the R,G,B and A of a vertex painted terrain and lets you assign a different texture to each channel, blending based on those RGBA values so you should be able to paint those vertex colours directly
Yes I searched already about it and found that it work with vertex and rgba but haven't tested yet.

I don't show all of my area in the screenshot, moslty the buiding but I have lot of underground that you can't see, and as I said a friend told me that underground aren't supported by the build in terrain system, it can allow to dig on ground like you did in your example but not underground.

I also model my area primary with schematic geometry in mind, a basis in low poly enhanced by tesselation and displacement (not show in the screenshot), and last time I tried the buid in terrain system it didn't give me precise result like I want.

I will look into the buid in terrain system again now and see if I can have what I want from it.
 

LordRaptor

Member
I don't show all of my area in the screenshot, moslty the buiding but I have lot of underground that you can't see, and as I said a friend told me that underground aren't supported by the build in terrain system, it can allow to dig on ground like you did in your example but not underground.

Sorry I couldn't be more help - AFAIK, most 'underground' in games is either layered terrains with specific render layer cameras (for something like Anno 2070) or entirely mesh based
 

sbkodama

Member
Sorry I couldn't be more help - AFAIK, most 'underground' in games is either layered terrains with specific render layer cameras (for something like Anno 2070) or entirely mesh based

Alright, right know I try to see why some of my old scripts don't work as intented and will see for the underground after, thank for your help.
 

KOCMOHABT

Member
We (friend/artist+me) spent the better part of yesterday's evening to make a stupid fun game.
The idea was to play an overpowered cyber ninja and dash through some evil robots.

Yep. Double Jump, air dash and everything.

VpdXo5Q.gif


I actually programmed everything from scratch in monogame, haven't done a platformer before. Collision turned out to take more time than the half hour or so I expected :p

Could probably be achieved in 5 minutes in another engine, but I had to do something while Tobi was making the sprites :p (I did some too.. tbf)
 
Man, this looks real good!
And now the trees are behaving properly, too! :-D
Yup!

That's looks really solid. What are you animating with?
Looks amazing. Is your grass an animation or is it programatically swaying?
The trees are static images which move by rotation and resizing, it's a very cool effect when you get it looking right.

For the grass I actually made a little program to take single lines of grass that I hand animated and produce patches of grass which loop, each chunk is several frames big and I can make as many unique tiles as I want. I just take the tiles and add them to the game.

Each year an improvement! ;) Hopefully you get it done someday.
Good to see its still alive after all this time :).
It's getting there, the kickstarter helped a lot with letting me get on with work and not worrying about paying bills for a few months, and paying for original artwork and music too.

This continues to look great, loving the movement of the trees, good stuff.
Excellent job!
thanks!
 

Minamu

Member
Is it easily doable to create an inverse globe as a level, in let's say Skyrim or Unity? Like Super Mario Galaxy but inverted. I'd imagine creating the level per se would be fairly straight forward as houses or whatever wouldn't necessarily be affected by gravity, but the player, that's something else entirely.
 
"Is it easily doable to create an inverse globe as a level, in let's say Skyrim or Unity? Like Super Mario Galaxy but inverted. I'd imagine creating the level per se would be fairly straight forward as houses or whatever wouldn't necessarily be affected by gravity, but the player, that's something else entirely."


Probably wouldn't be very difficult in Unity. Some raycasting so that the player's gravity is always relative to the globe would be the first way I'd attempt it.
 
Is it easily doable to create an inverse globe as a level, in let's say Skyrim or Unity? Like Super Mario Galaxy but inverted. I'd imagine creating the level per se would be fairly straight forward as houses or whatever wouldn't necessarily be affected by gravity, but the player, that's something else entirely.

I would just store entity position as a 3D vector, relative to the center of the globe. Gravity would just be manipulating the magnitude of the vector. Look into components of 3D vectors.
 
Is it easily doable to create an inverse globe as a level, in let's say Skyrim or Unity? Like Super Mario Galaxy but inverted. I'd imagine creating the level per se would be fairly straight forward as houses or whatever wouldn't necessarily be affected by gravity, but the player, that's something else entirely.

Bunch of ways to do it... at least in Unity. Not sure how Skyrim would act.

If it's just for effect you could do all the stuff normally and just use a shader to give the impression of a curved world.
 

missile

Member
Time to wind down the industry everyone.

Not sure what I'll do now that game developers aren't needed anymore. Become a baker perhaps? I'll have to think about it.



(fake edit: resurrected gaf thread)
As someone already said; no man's console. xD


Speaking about physically based rendering (PBR) in Unity and/or the Unreal
engine, can someone render me a ball of, for example, gold and/or copper and
showing what sort of parameters (not their values) the given PBR model exposes
to arrive at such metals?
 

Mik2121

Member
As someone already said; no man's console. xD


Speaking about physically based rendering (PBR) in Unity and/or the Unreal
engine, can someone render me a ball of, for example, gold and/or copper and
showing what sort of parameters (not their values) the given PBR model exposes
to arrive at such metals?
This is probably not what you're asking for, but at least in UE4 there's a parameter already called "Metallic" which goes from 0 (non-metalic ) to 1 (metallic).

If you need the actual math, you might want to search for some papers from about 2012/2013 from Siggraph and whatnot, which are based on way older documentation.
 

Loginius

Member
Speaking about physically based rendering (PBR) in Unity and/or the Unreal
engine, can someone render me a ball of, for example, gold and/or copper and
showing what sort of parameters (not their values) the given PBR model exposes
to arrive at such metals?
Not sure if Im understanding this correctly but for PBR there are usually lookuptables for the most common materials since even the rgb value of the albedo is important to get the best result.
The way pbr works in unreal and unity is very different tho, unreal uses metallic and roughness values in combination with the albedo while unity is using a spec/gloss approach.
Epic has some good documentation on their pbr stuff.
 

LordRaptor

Member
As someone already said; no man's console. xD


Speaking about physically based rendering (PBR) in Unity and/or the Unreal
engine, can someone render me a ball of, for example, gold and/or copper and
showing what sort of parameters (not their values) the given PBR model exposes
to arrive at such metals?

  • Unity 5.4
  • lighting space set to linear
  • Camera using deferred rendering with HDR enabled
  • high quality HDR cubemap skybox set to trilinear filtering
  • Default scene lighting values
  • Default reflection probe placed near primitive
  • Built in sphere primitive using default Unity PBR shader with values set to match this reference

pMEnKMI.png
 

Pehesse

Member
Oh man oh man oh man

Spent the day hitting brick wall after brick wall, feeling pretty dejected and dumb, and about to call it quits, and then:



Just a heads up for anyone else planning to do steam integration short term: start by checking you have the default/auto created packages to tuck your builds in! It looks to be a common bug, and it's fixed pretty easily by Valve apparently... except they wipe all information you entered about the storepage in the process. So make sure it's there before you do anything else!
 

Amzin

Member
Source code for Cook, Serve, Delicious!

Wasn't that chubs game?

Yup!

So I recently was inspired to learn how to make a little game, preferably multiplatform (Android/iOS at least) and have some coding experience, so my initial idea was Java because I'm already familiar with Javascript to some extent, Is this Humblebundle a better idea, for someone who is fairly used to coding, but has never built a program like a game before (or done anything graphical outside of a website...)?
 

OldRoutes

Member
Yup!

So I recently was inspired to learn how to make a little game, preferably multiplatform (Android/iOS at least) and have some coding experience, so my initial idea was Java because I'm already familiar with Javascript to some extent, Is this Humblebundle a better idea, for someone who is fairly used to coding, but has never built a program like a game before (or done anything graphical outside of a website...)?

If you want, try Unity and C# ; it's similar to Javascript in a lot of ways, and Unity is free and the free version includes almost (if not all) what that bundles offer for Game Maker.
 

shaowebb

Member
I use Construct 2 or Unity, but hell yeah I'm buying this. Too many great things can be made in Gamemaker to ignore having $1300 worth of development software available for $15.

I need to get my brother in law on this. He's been eyeballing this engine for awhile now.
 

Minamu

Member
Probably wouldn't be very difficult in Unity. Some raycasting so that the player's gravity is always relative to the globe would be the first way I'd attempt it.

I would just store entity position as a 3D vector, relative to the center of the globe. Gravity would just be manipulating the magnitude of the vector. Look into components of 3D vectors.

That makes sense, great :)

Bunch of ways to do it... at least in Unity. Not sure how Skyrim would act.

If it's just for effect you could do all the stuff normally and just use a shader to give the impression of a curved world.
You mean like a fisheye lens or similar? Sounds like fun, yet annoying xD But yeah, it's mostly for effect and potential portfolio work, not sure if being able to actually play it would be a requirement. It's just a thought experiment at this point.

But I like the idea of having the inside of a globe be a level and having a sun in the middle of the sphere. I have no idea if it's doable in Skyrim; I haven't even found any tutorials for making forests and outdoor environments yet, only dungeons and other separate levels. But I'd like to make an entire city/village. I suggested Skyrim because of the graphical artstyle with mountains and woods, I think it could look pretty cool :)

Gamemaker Studio Pro w/ HTML5, Android, iOS and UWP export modules.
Games created in GameMaker along with source code.

https://www.humblebundle.com/gamemaker-bundle
What's the price? Site is blocked at work.

Edit: $15, it seems. Pretty good.
 

hampig

Member
I've been hesitant to post my own stuff here because my game is an RPG Maker game, but things have been going well so I thought I'd share some info that might help somebody else in the future going through the processes I am now.

I started a Kickstarter and a Greenlight on the 1st of this month.

(Just to clarify, the Kickstarter is just for art. Even if it failed I would complete the game, and everything from the trailer/that is promised would be present, it would just be much less pretty than it could be and a bit more scaled down overall.)

Anyways, I've been told that average yes vote percent on Greenlight is 42%. After 6 days I'm at 46% yes, 52% no. To me this is a pretty huge accomplishment, especially considering how niche my game is. The only advertising I've done for the Greenlight is my twitter (112 followers) and my Kickstarter (52 backers) so it's safe to say most of the votes came through Greenlight itself.

The Kickstarter on the other had was fairly slow to start, but I made some good friends on Twitter with followers in the thousands that retweeted me. This has been essential to me getting any exposure. For any devs out there even if you're still far from real promotion, I recommend you start using Twitter if you don't already. Schedule daily posts and try to get at least a small following. It's done wonders for me as essentially my only means of advertisement.

Another thing to mention that you hear about but never really can understand if you haven't experienced. It really hurts when people shit on the stuff you've worked hard on. Even if they have valid points, it can be depressing to feel like nobody cares about the work you've put in. To that my advice is, just remember why you started the project in the first place and that people are often quite mean just to be mean. Try to not take it to heart and move on quickly.

If anyone's interested in seeing my stuff I'll post a link. Just wanted to mainly share my experiences though. : )
 
I've been hesitant to post my own stuff here because my game is an RPG Maker game, but things have been going well so I thought I'd share some info that might help somebody else in the future going through the processes I am now.

I started a Kickstarter and a Greenlight on the 1st of this month.

(Just to clarify, the Kickstarter is just for art. Even if it failed I would complete the game, and everything from the trailer/that is promised would be present, it would just be much less pretty than it could be and a bit more scaled down overall.)

Anyways, I've been told that average yes vote percent on Greenlight is 42%. After 6 days I'm at 46% yes, 52% no. To me this is a pretty huge accomplishment, especially considering how niche my game is. The only advertising I've done for the Greenlight is my twitter (112 followers) and my Kickstarter (52 backers) so it's safe to say most of the votes came through Greenlight itself.

The Kickstarter on the other had was fairly slow to start, but I made some good friends on Twitter with followers in the thousands that retweeted me. This has been essential to me getting any exposure. For any devs out there even if you're still far from real promotion, I recommend you start using Twitter if you don't already. Schedule daily posts and try to get at least a small following. It's done wonders for me as essentially my only means of advertisement.

Another thing to mention that you hear about but never really can understand if you haven't experienced. It really hurts when people shit on the stuff you've worked hard on. Even if they have valid points, it can be depressing to feel like nobody cares about the work you've put in. To that my advice is, just remember why you started the project in the first place and that people are often quite mean just to be mean. Try to not take it to heart and move on quickly.

If anyone's interested in seeing my stuff I'll post a link. Just wanted to mainly share my experiences though. : )

Well you can't leave us hanging, of course post a link! :)
 

hampig

Member
Well you can't leave us hanging, of course post a link! :)

Haha, alright. Kickstarter is here. I've done pretty much everything but the portrait art. I realize that the promo material is very reliant on "sexy anime girls" but I promise the game is much more than that! I just have very limited to show art-wise until the Kickstarter is done so try not to judge too harshly.
 

Lautaro

Member
Haha, alright. Kickstarter is here. I've done pretty much everything but the portrait art. I realize that the promo material is very reliant on "sexy anime girls" but I promise the game is much more than that! I just have very limited to show art-wise until the Kickstarter is done so try not to judge too harshly.

Good luck with your KS, apparently you are pretty much set.

Check your comments though, a guy is asking you something.
 
That looks awesome :O So you can do that with just a normal flat terrain and just put a shader on the camera? Crazy talk! ;) Although, I'll not likely spend $45 on such a shader any time soon :/

Yeah, exactly, you can just use a shader to manipulate stuff like that.

I wrote a vertex shader that does something kind of like that to roll terrain down and away, kind of Animal Crossing-like (though not nearly as beautifully as that shader in the video).
 

hampig

Member
Good luck with your KS, apparently you are pretty much set.

Check your comments though, a guy is asking you something.

Thanks! Yeah I'm feeling pretty good about it. : )

And I appreciate you bringing the comment to my attention. Not sure how I missed it.
 

missile

Member
This is probably not what you're asking for, but at least in UE4 there's a parameter already called "Metallic" which goes from 0 (non-metalic ) to 1 (metallic).

If you need the actual math, you might want to search for some papers from about 2012/2013 from Siggraph and whatnot, which are based on way older documentation.
Thx. Found one of the papers. It seems UDK derived their PBR from Disney's
"principle BRDF" cutting some of the computational demanding corners.


Not sure if Im understanding this correctly but for PBR there are usually lookuptables for the most common materials since even the rgb value of the albedo is important to get the best result.
The way pbr works in unreal and unity is very different tho, unreal uses metallic and roughness values in combination with the albedo while unity is using a spec/gloss approach.
Epic has some good documentation on their pbr stuff.
Thx for the info and the link!


  • Unity 5.4
  • lighting space set to linear
  • Camera using deferred rendering with HDR enabled
  • high quality HDR cubemap skybox set to trilinear filtering
  • Default scene lighting values
  • Default reflection probe placed near primitive
  • Built in sphere primitive using default Unity PBR shader with values set to match this reference

pMEnKMI.png
Thx for making that up for me.
Well, considering the shader, is there one supporting Fresnel reflection for
metals or do I have to make my own one?
 

Dlink16

Member
Oh it's a complete game changer. I love using it a lot. Like I'll often find excuses to use it instead of what would previously be programmatic or sprite animations. It saves so much time and it helps me make better animations. There are essentially no downsides from how I've animated in the past (usually photoshop like Jobbs and Orioto).

So a couple of things. When my previous partner and I first started using spine, other similar animation programs were not feature complete and missing things we needed a lot, especially mesh warp and individual bone scaling. I think this is no longer a problem, I just have no incentive to scout around. So in recommending Spine I'm not doing so to contrast against spriter or Puppet2D or whatever the competition is these days.

Other point. It works out of the box in GameMaker but you have to do a bit of finagling to get it to wor in Unity. To that end, if you go with it, I would learn to use it in GameMaker first so you can take baby steps. This is what I did (though that was because I didn't think I'd be changing engine) and I think it was helpful.

Recently got a pro license and plan on exporting to Unity. What sort of problems have you encountered to get it to work properly? It looks as though they've put a good amount of work into the Spine-Unity Runtime.
 
Recently got a pro license and plan on exporting to Unity. What sort of problems have you encountered to get it to work properly? It looks as though they've put a good amount of work into the Spine-Unity Runtime.

Not any real problems, but it's a thing where importing the animation in GameMaker is as simple as loading the json file into the sprite resource (as opposed to a png for other sprites), yet in Unity you have to load the texture, load the json, load the atlas, link them all with the internal tool, change the texture shader from the default option, and probably a few more hoops spacing my mind right now. Not to mention you have to install the Spine-Unity runtime separately in each project whereas it comes built-in to GameMaker. And then you have to do all the normal Unity stuff of attach an animator to, attach it to the control object, et cetera. It's just more work, but it's not a problem.
 

Amzin

Member
If you want, try Unity and C# ; it's similar to Javascript in a lot of ways, and Unity is free and the free version includes almost (if not all) what that bundles offer for Game Maker.

Thanks! I was actually just reading more about it and was leaning towards C# now anyway. I looked at 2 of my favorite recent indie games (Stardew and Hyper Light Drifter) and decided if Stardew was done in C# I can definitely do what I want there :)
 
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