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GAF Indie Game Development Thread 2: High Res Work for Low Res Pay
- Thread starter Jacksinthe
- Start date
- Status
Jacksinthe
Banned
What would you change to help protect against abuse and at the same time allow legit paid (via other means) codes stay on the reviews?
I feel any system that you create to filter the hand-outs vs 3rd party keys would become too difficult to manage and would be open to exploit, as well. I will add I'm not familiar with steam key generation or APIs.
It's six of one and half dozen of the other. I think in this situation the grass isn't green on either side.
I feel a solution should be looked into. We can all hang our heads or put them together and share our ideas with the larger development community.
LordRaptor
Member
I think probably the biggest problem with the methodology change is that not that many people write reviews to even things out.
Something like amazon doesn't just rely on written reviews to show customer satisfaction, you can just leave a generic 5 star rating. steam reviews take more effort than that, so fewer people do it, so changes to review methodology have a bigger impact.
Steam reviews would have to get to the user interaction level of something like eBay or amazon before things start averaging out in the long run correctly, imo.
e:
I mean, that's why developers give certain users review keys in the first place; people who can clearly communicate the pros and cons of a title, and explain what it is that is worthwhile for a potential customer and what might put a potential customer off are useful buyers guides.
Something like amazon doesn't just rely on written reviews to show customer satisfaction, you can just leave a generic 5 star rating. steam reviews take more effort than that, so fewer people do it, so changes to review methodology have a bigger impact.
Steam reviews would have to get to the user interaction level of something like eBay or amazon before things start averaging out in the long run correctly, imo.
e:
I mean, that's why developers give certain users review keys in the first place; people who can clearly communicate the pros and cons of a title, and explain what it is that is worthwhile for a potential customer and what might put a potential customer off are useful buyers guides.
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
Yeah, I can see that being the case for lots of little indie games honestly. The review change might actually be a good thing for some devs.
This sounds like it should mostly cut out free key reviews, though. I guess the big penalty is for Humble bundle style games?
timetokill
Banned
Puppet2D, a 2D animation tool kind of like Spine is available for 50% off on the Unity Asset Store ($22.50), just a heads-up: https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/content/14024
electroflame
Member
It does cut out free key reviews. Unfortunately, it also cuts out any legitimate reviews from any sources outside of Steam. If your key is bought from, e.g. Humble Bundle, itch.io, developer's own website, etc. then you're out of luck in terms of having your review count for the average.
Yeah, it solves the key abuse problem, and it may help out some indies, but I think it hurts the marketplace overall (less incentive to review). Especially if you (as a dev) are proactive in sending keys out to people who review games on Steam.
Will it make or break your game? Probably not. But it's kind of a solution in search of a bigger problem, that also creates its own, separate problem (that, again, will most-likely be harder on indies).
I didn't know why the reviews dropped down until I caught up today about the changes.
It seems that it is a mixed bag of results for indie devs. Personally 12 reviews were hidden from 109 total. 3 of those non-stem sales being negative and the rest positive.
Sending out keys now just seems a little less attractive and potentially hurting us indies trying to get exposure.
It seems that it is a mixed bag of results for indie devs. Personally 12 reviews were hidden from 109 total. 3 of those non-stem sales being negative and the rest positive.
Sending out keys now just seems a little less attractive and potentially hurting us indies trying to get exposure.
Steamspy made a google doc with the 427 games that saw the biggest changes with the new review system : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1s_T4WYWf-tBtA8Oqg79J7fDe3ulOc6DgJl6ByhYMnD0/edit#gid=0
My game lost 3 reviews on 394 and the score didn't change so I'm fine there. The worst my indie friends have is a 4% drop. Overall, doesn't seems like a too bad change right now.
Also, it's important to note that a few games when significantly up in userscore too, the most interesting imho being Cibele which now sits at 71% instead of 50% with 718 less reviews.
My game lost 3 reviews on 394 and the score didn't change so I'm fine there. The worst my indie friends have is a 4% drop. Overall, doesn't seems like a too bad change right now.
Also, it's important to note that a few games when significantly up in userscore too, the most interesting imho being Cibele which now sits at 71% instead of 50% with 718 less reviews.
Yeah, surely some got lucky and lost a few negative reviews this way. But for the most part, this change simply lowered the amount of reviews, making it harder or even impossible for indies to reach "very positive" or "overwhelmingly positive" even with a score of 100%, as these are tied to specific review amount limits (i think about 50 and 500?). Especially for those with a large presence in bundles.
Also I find that some of the most helpful and extensive reviews come from gamer blogs, youtubers etc. that got their keys for free. All of those are now hidden behind several button clicks and scrolling down. In contrast, my only negative review (from a "valid" person) is now something like "game is awesome, but add Russian translation, even if only with Google Translate". Which he wrote in Russian and I had to translate with Google Translate to read.
Of course I don't have the perfect solution for the fake review problem, but simply hiding millions of reviews and removing them from the total score is stupid, especially when less than 1% of the games are actually affected by scammers. Now, scammers simply buy their own games (and get 70% of the money back) or pay others to do so and continue with fake reviewing, unless I'm missing something. For F2P games, nothing changed at all
Edit: They are already monitoring unusual behaviour (if key-reviews are way better than store-reviews) - why can't they just handle this on a per-game basis? Or apply the review "fix" only for these games instead of the whole Steam library? If the key-reviews don't really alter the score, why hide them at all? Doesn't make sense to me.
Also I find that some of the most helpful and extensive reviews come from gamer blogs, youtubers etc. that got their keys for free. All of those are now hidden behind several button clicks and scrolling down. In contrast, my only negative review (from a "valid" person) is now something like "game is awesome, but add Russian translation, even if only with Google Translate". Which he wrote in Russian and I had to translate with Google Translate to read.
Of course I don't have the perfect solution for the fake review problem, but simply hiding millions of reviews and removing them from the total score is stupid, especially when less than 1% of the games are actually affected by scammers. Now, scammers simply buy their own games (and get 70% of the money back) or pay others to do so and continue with fake reviewing, unless I'm missing something. For F2P games, nothing changed at all
Edit: They are already monitoring unusual behaviour (if key-reviews are way better than store-reviews) - why can't they just handle this on a per-game basis? Or apply the review "fix" only for these games instead of the whole Steam library? If the key-reviews don't really alter the score, why hide them at all? Doesn't make sense to me.
LordRaptor
Member
I think it was the industrialised abuses of the system that made changes inevitable; its one thing naively giving a few hundred keys away hoping for positive word of mouth as a result.
It's another having organised groups offering guaranteed x positive reviews for y keys and z cash, then flipping those keys on Kinguin or similar.
I have a feeling more restrictive reviews is a better solution that more restrictive key generation, as most other digital storefronts do, capping your number of free keys available.
I think it would be beneficial to have an easier / faster pseudo review for customers though, like something as simple as the screenshot uploader popup after a first playtime of "Are you enjoying this so far? Yes, not sure, no"
It's another having organised groups offering guaranteed x positive reviews for y keys and z cash, then flipping those keys on Kinguin or similar.
I have a feeling more restrictive reviews is a better solution that more restrictive key generation, as most other digital storefronts do, capping your number of free keys available.
I think it would be beneficial to have an easier / faster pseudo review for customers though, like something as simple as the screenshot uploader popup after a first playtime of "Are you enjoying this so far? Yes, not sure, no"
Little update on Power Hover, after initial iOS(premium) release we started making updates and tried to get the game work as adsbased game on the Android.
8 months after the initial launch the game is now live on iOS, iTV, android, androidTV, ShieldTV, Amazon fire devices and Amazon Underground. We have done two major content updates and tons of little ones. phew!
This week game broke 4,000,000 downloads on all those platforms combined, pretty insane number! Eventhough we didn't really broke the bank financially, we have now started
work on the next project, that's the most important thing
8 months after the initial launch the game is now live on iOS, iTV, android, androidTV, ShieldTV, Amazon fire devices and Amazon Underground. We have done two major content updates and tons of little ones. phew!
This week game broke 4,000,000 downloads on all those platforms combined, pretty insane number! Eventhough we didn't really broke the bank financially, we have now started
work on the next project, that's the most important thing
First day at TGS, woo! We've already set things up, but of course we had to miss a norikae and forgot the A1 poster we had gotten printed back at our room. At least there's three of us this time around, so one of us went back to pick it up while the team's artist and I hold the fort until his return.
If anyone happens to come to TGS, feel free to drop by booth A08 of the Indie Game Area. We've got mate!
If anyone happens to come to TGS, feel free to drop by booth A08 of the Indie Game Area. We've got mate!
Little update on Power Hover, after initial iOS(premium) release we started making updates and tried to get the game work as adsbased game on the Android.
8 months after the initial launch the game is now live on iOS, iTV, android, androidTV, ShieldTV, Amazon fire devices and Amazon Underground. We have done two major content updates and tons of little ones. phew!
This week game broke 4,000,000 downloads on all those platforms combined, pretty insane number! Eventhough we didn't really broke the bank financially, we have now started
work on the next project, that's the most important thing
Congrats on the awesome number !
How is it going financially on the iOS VS Android (Premium VS Ad-based) part ? Any clear winner on the revenue per user?
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
Congrats, man! 4mm is huge!
Jacksinthe
Banned
So the exposure of a Steam review is worth more than the exposure of giving a key to a gaming website for preview/review?
Premium is the clear winner. Looking back I wish we had released android as premium as well, it probably would have done just as good or better as the ads version but with A LOT less trouble.
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
I think, and its just a feeling and a hunch, that there is a growing trend in portable gaming where people would actually rather pay a small price for the game rather than deal with in-game ads and such. I know a lot of my friends who do this regularly, and even ignore games with ads in them but willingly pay a few dollars to buy ad-free games for their phones. Im not completely up on the user variances between Android and iOS gamers, but it does seem like your experience shows that to a degree as well. Its an interesting balancing act sometimes.
fabricated backlash
Member
So me and a buddy just released our first game on the google playstore. I worked with him on another game prior, but that first one was pretty much just me providing the Pixel Art.
I don't know if I feel comfortable with calling myself a "game developer" as I still have tons to learn, but it's just so much fun. Seen as the games concept came together and got up and running during the Global Game Jam it's scope and depth is about as you'd expect.
I thought I'd share a bit about how the game came to be and reflect on the process and the lessons learned. A kind of post mortem. Note that I can't provide any insight into the programming side, as that's out of my skillset and whenever I relay to that I just parrot what my buddy explained to me.
PROST
I
So the concept is as easy as it is absurd. The theme of this years Global Game Jam was "Ritual". During the brainstorm sessions I noticed how most immediately associated that with spiritual, occult and magical themes. Some ventured a bit into societal rituals but quickly backed out to fall back to the mythical stuff.
Well I thought, why not make a game out of something unremarkable, yet a ritual nonetheless. So I thought about celebrations. Drinking rituals, but how to turn that into a mechanic. I needed something repeatable, something that could be broken down into patterns.
We thought about doing a reaction based game. Whenever someone would raise a glass, you'd have to match it and then judge the strength with which to hit the other glass.
And that's basically how the game was born.
Initially we had a scoring system based on the alcohol level in your blood, the higher it got, the faster the glass was moving, the harder the game got. Well that was probably the first thing we got rid of once we decided to polish the game up for a release. Not a good look to celebrate getting drunk, even though it was a fun twist on the usual difficulty increase. Now it's a generic point score, but it turns out that while making the game more accessible, it also made it more relatable as it's easier to understand than alcohol levels.
Since the game needed to be compact and focused, I wanted the protagonists to be very unique and memorable. I chose an alpine theme and played around with various art styles, but ultimately decided to go back to the Pixel Art style I used for the first game.
FRANZ
Meet Franz, the Player Character. Clad in a traditional Tyrolean Vest and the typical blue Apron, he sit's across...
Günther
Günther is from Bavaria and gets irrate when you miss the glass, or even break it.
I tried to portray them to be easily recognizable without becoming simple stereotypes. Both wear clothes you normally see during a celebration in the alps. I also planned on including more characters, including a few women, but in the end simply didn't have the time. That's why I tried to give the existing characters a bit more personality with a few simple frame animations.
The Pixel Art isn't limited to any retro console colour palette. Still I tried not to go overboard with the shades.
As far as the programming side go. We used Unity, as we were both familiar with it, My partner insisted on doing all the scripts himself and not rely on code from others. Since it was a learning experience first and foremost for both of us, he made sure to get as much out of it as he could.
He constantly told me that when comparing the code for Prost to his earlier game it was mind boggling how much worse that code was.
That really inspired me to also put more effort in this time as well, especially on how to improve my workflow and communication.
If any of you can spare some time and check it out and provide me with some feedback.
I don't know if I feel comfortable with calling myself a "game developer" as I still have tons to learn, but it's just so much fun. Seen as the games concept came together and got up and running during the Global Game Jam it's scope and depth is about as you'd expect.
I thought I'd share a bit about how the game came to be and reflect on the process and the lessons learned. A kind of post mortem. Note that I can't provide any insight into the programming side, as that's out of my skillset and whenever I relay to that I just parrot what my buddy explained to me.
PROST
I
So the concept is as easy as it is absurd. The theme of this years Global Game Jam was "Ritual". During the brainstorm sessions I noticed how most immediately associated that with spiritual, occult and magical themes. Some ventured a bit into societal rituals but quickly backed out to fall back to the mythical stuff.
Well I thought, why not make a game out of something unremarkable, yet a ritual nonetheless. So I thought about celebrations. Drinking rituals, but how to turn that into a mechanic. I needed something repeatable, something that could be broken down into patterns.
We thought about doing a reaction based game. Whenever someone would raise a glass, you'd have to match it and then judge the strength with which to hit the other glass.
And that's basically how the game was born.
Initially we had a scoring system based on the alcohol level in your blood, the higher it got, the faster the glass was moving, the harder the game got. Well that was probably the first thing we got rid of once we decided to polish the game up for a release. Not a good look to celebrate getting drunk, even though it was a fun twist on the usual difficulty increase. Now it's a generic point score, but it turns out that while making the game more accessible, it also made it more relatable as it's easier to understand than alcohol levels.
Since the game needed to be compact and focused, I wanted the protagonists to be very unique and memorable. I chose an alpine theme and played around with various art styles, but ultimately decided to go back to the Pixel Art style I used for the first game.
FRANZ
Meet Franz, the Player Character. Clad in a traditional Tyrolean Vest and the typical blue Apron, he sit's across...
Günther
Günther is from Bavaria and gets irrate when you miss the glass, or even break it.
I tried to portray them to be easily recognizable without becoming simple stereotypes. Both wear clothes you normally see during a celebration in the alps. I also planned on including more characters, including a few women, but in the end simply didn't have the time. That's why I tried to give the existing characters a bit more personality with a few simple frame animations.
The Pixel Art isn't limited to any retro console colour palette. Still I tried not to go overboard with the shades.
As far as the programming side go. We used Unity, as we were both familiar with it, My partner insisted on doing all the scripts himself and not rely on code from others. Since it was a learning experience first and foremost for both of us, he made sure to get as much out of it as he could.
He constantly told me that when comparing the code for Prost to his earlier game it was mind boggling how much worse that code was.
That really inspired me to also put more effort in this time as well, especially on how to improve my workflow and communication.
If any of you can spare some time and check it out and provide me with some feedback.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Pazu
Member
taking Chiaro for our first public demo on Vive to the Montreal Independent Games Festival tomorrow. equal parts excited and certain everything that can go wrong will go wrong.
we've got three levels: in the first, you can build Boka, your first alive machine. he becomes your mentor.
in the second, you'll make Boka tea in exchange for secrets he's holding in his memory banks.
in the third, you've got some enchanted tools, and get to go on an adventure to save him.
pretty pumped to demo and see all the ways people are having fun and breaking our game!
we've got three levels: in the first, you can build Boka, your first alive machine. he becomes your mentor.
in the second, you'll make Boka tea in exchange for secrets he's holding in his memory banks.
in the third, you've got some enchanted tools, and get to go on an adventure to save him.
pretty pumped to demo and see all the ways people are having fun and breaking our game!
electroflame
Member
You might want to take a look at the NVIDIA Texture Tools plugin for Photoshop (if that's what you're using).
I'm not sure if it works on the latest Photoshop versions (Creative Cloud, etc.). It's free, though, so it'd still be worth checking out.
JeffG
Member
From images or from high-density geometry to be mapped to lower density geometry?
LordRaptor
Member
It's a bit more complicated than a pure normal map generator, but Awesome Bump is a freeware attempt at recreating Crazy Bump (which used to be the normal map creation tool, and has a free demo).
There's also a GIMP plugin called Insane Bump which does much the same as the Nvidia tool, just for people not rocking photoshop
There's also a GIMP plugin called Insane Bump which does much the same as the Nvidia tool, just for people not rocking photoshop
Bitmap2Material has a macOS version.
LordRaptor
Member
Yeah, B2M is pretty great, and comes with native plugins for Unity and UE4 that lets you work its magic directly within the engine - I'm just wary about recommending it, because its a chunk of cash, and for a bit more you could get Substance Designer or Substance Painter, both of which can do like...90% of what B2M can, but you also get all the bells and whistles each were designed for as their own product.
NinjaBoyLao
Member
I havent posted here in a while but here are some gif of our game's progress.
Half done boss fight(the boss is still missing 2 abilities and still working on some of the main char's animation)
one of our basic enemy AI:
and another WIP Boss
And Music!:
Main Theme
Boss Theme
Half done boss fight(the boss is still missing 2 abilities and still working on some of the main char's animation)
one of our basic enemy AI:
and another WIP Boss
And Music!:
Main Theme
Boss Theme
Hey, that's the GGJ from January, yes?
I was in that one too! I remember the theme very well, my current Holy Sheep project was started on that jam. We did just like you mentioned and took the theme a bit literally. Our style of graphics is cube based so it's quite abstract but we ended up with some kind of Mayan or Aztec environment style and we turned "ritual" into "animal/human sacrifices". Gameplay we took "ritual" and made it into a four player class-based third person cat-and-mouse shooter :lol We're still going strong, I'm making the levels and my two programmers are focusing on online play and the lobby functionality at the moment. I think we've done a damn good job for just three guys so far pixelprototype
Neo Member
Hi everyone, first time poster, long time lurker of the indie dev forums, and over a year-ish full-time indie dev here. Sorry if the introduction is weird hope I'm not doing this post wrong xD
I got my first game up on Greenlight yesterday (bad timing? u_u) after many months of working on it and everything's stressful to me, haha. I've been a programmer ever since so having to work on marketing/press scares and confuses a super introvert like me (I haven't started on that yet, actually, so any advice from fellow introverts would be appreciated. I've read articles/postmortems/etc but I STILL get overwhelmed on how to start since I've never really talked to press/media people before. Ugh, I'm so lame). Even posting in forums takes courage for me which is why I've never commented even though I see so many awesome games on this thread and want to be supportive. I just quietly support through greenlight voting/posting game reviews/etc.
Anyway there are a LOT of games here that I really like and so many of you have shared and done awesome stuff that just amazes me. If you're a fan of simulation/puzzle mashup games please check my game out Thanks and hope everyone has a good weekend and thanks for reading!
Steam Link: https://goo.gl/IxxodL
I got my first game up on Greenlight yesterday (bad timing? u_u) after many months of working on it and everything's stressful to me, haha. I've been a programmer ever since so having to work on marketing/press scares and confuses a super introvert like me (I haven't started on that yet, actually, so any advice from fellow introverts would be appreciated. I've read articles/postmortems/etc but I STILL get overwhelmed on how to start since I've never really talked to press/media people before. Ugh, I'm so lame). Even posting in forums takes courage for me which is why I've never commented even though I see so many awesome games on this thread and want to be supportive. I just quietly support through greenlight voting/posting game reviews/etc.
Anyway there are a LOT of games here that I really like and so many of you have shared and done awesome stuff that just amazes me. If you're a fan of simulation/puzzle mashup games please check my game out
Thanks and hope everyone has a good weekend and thanks for reading!
Steam Link: https://goo.gl/IxxodL
neko.works
Member
Hey guys!
I'm planning to launch my first KickStarter for Light Fairytale next week.
Question: What hour of the day would you recommend? I'm currently targeting 18:00 in Paris, which means 12:00 in Washington.
Any thoughts?
I'm planning to launch my first KickStarter for Light Fairytale next week.
Question: What hour of the day would you recommend? I'm currently targeting 18:00 in Paris, which means 12:00 in Washington.
Any thoughts?
fabricated backlash
Member
Hey, that's the GGJ from January, yes?
Yep it was the one in January. Such an amazing but exhausting experience. Still, it really reinforced that I want to work in this field, and apply my skills here.
As simple as our game is. To see it work for the first time was an amazing feeling.
I would love to see more of your game if you can share.
I remember a project that made a Fruit Ninja clone, but with sacrificial goats instead of fruit lol.
Mental Atrophy
Banned
Hey, that's the GGJ from January, yes?
I did that jam too--I can't remember if I posted it here or not. I started late because I had job stuff to do, but still mostly finished. I also went with a human sacrifice theme. There are still bugs, significant performance issues, and weak level design that can be rendered unsolvable, but I made this platformer. For whatever reason the main download doesn't work, but the alternate one does.
fabricated backlash
Member
Hi everyone, first time poster, long time lurker of the indie dev forums, and over a year-ish full-time indie dev here. Sorry if the introduction is weird hope I'm not doing this post wrong xD
I got my first game up on Greenlight yesterday (bad timing? u_u) after many months of working on it and everything's stressful to me, haha. I've been a programmer ever since so having to work on marketing/press scares and confuses a super introvert like me (I haven't started on that yet, actually, so any advice from fellow introverts would be appreciated. I've read articles/postmortems/etc but I STILL get overwhelmed on how to start since I've never really talked to press/media people before. Ugh, I'm so lame). Even posting in forums takes courage for me which is why I've never commented even though I see so many awesome games on this thread and want to be supportive. I just quietly support through greenlight voting/posting game reviews/etc.
Anyway there are a LOT of games here that I really like and so many of you have shared and done awesome stuff that just amazes me. If you're a fan of simulation/puzzle mashup games please check my game out
Steam Link: https://goo.gl/IxxodL
From someone with training in marketing, presentations and comercial design, the best advice I can give you is to always do PR on your terms. If you don't feel comfortable doing live performances or video blogs, try creating an avatar in such material. Maybe even get someone to read a script for you if you're not comfortable to record your own voice. If you record your own voice, don't be afraid to do as many takes as necessary.
This also applies to interviews. If you don't feel comfortable doing a voice interview, ask if messengers are an option. You can take your time formulating answers and it mostly is easier for the journalists too, as they don't have to do a transcript later.
There's a saying in German "Wie man in den Wald hineinruft so kommt es auch zurück!" You'll get the echo according to how you call into the woods. Meaning that you can foster the kind of tone of your PR on your terms. That can be aggressive or sterile, friendly or cocky, as long as it conveys your enthusiasm and devotion to your game.
Be genuine and mostly you will find that the response will be positive. Make sure to adress criticism, even if unfounded and don't get too defensive. Again, the PR interactions have to happen on your terms, so if you find that you get upset about a comment or troll, it's better to not react publicly.
Your game looks quite charming by the way. Wish you all the best.
timetokill
Banned
I did that jam too--I can't remember if I posted it here or not. I started late because I had job stuff to do, but still mostly finished. I also went with a human sacrifice theme. There are still bugs, significant performance issues, and weak level design that can be rendered unsolvable, but I made this platformer. For whatever reason the main download doesn't work, but the alternate one does.
Cute!
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
So, a Twitter Sexbot just retweeted Paper Shakespeare. wtf.
Damn. Looking spiffy.
Screenshot Saturday!
Some ingame screens of our characters.
Damn. Looking spiffy.
Im always looking for feedback so feel free to crit.
Super quick post in order to make it in time for saturday (gmt+1 here).
Thanks a lot.
Sorry I have no experience with kickstarter but I want you to know that your game looks amazing!
The lady is great and in general the rendering is excellent. I can't fault you for your 3D skills.
Design wise, though, I think the fox kid is bad. It goes beyond just being problematic because it's "furry", it's problematic because it's tacky and grotesque. It also lacks design vision.
I'm sorry to be so negative on this particular character but I had a visceral reaction to it and I'm holding you to a somewhat higher standard based on the strength of some of your other work.
No thats totally fine with me, just tell me what you really think.
Could you go a bit more into detail why you find it grotesque and tacky? How is it different from similar figures like lets say the faun in Narnia?
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
I'd make his hair a lot closer to his face.
I think satyrs/fauns (Narnia etc.) are typically associated with looking older, for one thing. It's weird to see one look like a child. Facial hair, different body type, etc. could help.
Also, the waistline is odd. Since the legs dive down, it looks like it's going to be naked and then the crotch is covered with fluff. If you want to compare with Narnia again, take a look at how the waistline is even all the way around:
Also, the waistline is odd. Since the legs dive down, it looks like it's going to be naked and then the crotch is covered with fluff. If you want to compare with Narnia again, take a look at how the waistline is even all the way around:
- Status