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GAF Indie Game Development Thread 2: High Res Work for Low Res Pay

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J

Jacksinthe

Banned
liliththepale said:
I'm actually surprised it passed review. I didn't think iOS apps were allowed to have a quit function in a production copy. Do you know if that's a rule that got changed?

In any case, I'm really enjoying the game. It's very well-designed
Click to expand...
This is the first time I am learning about it ha! I never knew it was a thing :O They must have changed it then.

Thanks for the compliment. I wasn't sure how a game with no bells and whistles would go over. It gets out of the way of things quick and gets you right into playing with none of the usual fuss with menus and the like. I took it down to basics, that's for sure. I aimed for 10 minute play sessions which seems like a good speed for something to pick up and play on a whim with little fuss.
 
S

SpacePirate Ridley

Member
plagiarize said:
So nerves relating to the Unreal grant submission aside (I'm presuming I won't get one, but I'm kind of not sure how much I'll panic if I do...) things are still going well. Eh, I get my hopes up so easily.

I just want to thank everyone in this thread for helping motivate me so much. You guys don't realize how encouraging you've all been. Since becoming active in this thread I have kept a pace of completing a level's worth of puzzle and environmental design every two weeks. Level 8 should be finished on time, and I should be into level 9 by this time next week. In 8 or 9 weeks the level design should be about done.

Then we have writing, voice work, and a whole new host of problems to tackle!

You guys help keep the wind at my back. Thank you as ever for being so welcoming and so encouraging. I remember the very first time I posted in here I felt like I was intruding, like I hadn't earned a spot in here yet. You guys showed me how dumb that was and I'll always love you for it.

And Feep, thanks again for the download code ;)
Click to expand...

Continue with the great work, plagiarize!

AbsintheGames said:
Call out which one you grab (1-5)

iTunes GO: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/infinite-cosmos/id943183984?ls=1&mt=8

E7RM4MLJM774
46JJ934L3AEE
WJF33JFYTR9R
E9X3TE47MF96
KMN9YJ367YNA
Click to expand...

I havent grab yet a code but I wanted to ask, where do you use this codes in the iphone store?
 
H

Hindl

Member
Hey guys I'm working on a mobile game in Unity, and have a general architecture question. My friends and I are designing a mobile game centered around JRPG combat. The general setup is like Angry Birds or Candy Crush, where the player would basically complete a battle and then the next level would be another battle with new enemies. So for the combat, we've decided on an Active Time Battle System instead of turn based, and it's come time to design it.

When I initially looked into it, I saw a lot of suggestions using an event queue, where any time a character does an attack, it's added to the queue to make sure everything executes in order. But now looking at it, it seems like most of the time, the queue would be empty, and I'm seeing less of a point in using it. Would it instead be better to just have a central game manager class that in the Update checks if any attacks are ready? Or should I stick with the queue? Thanks.
 
T

thenewjeva

Member
MaritalWheat said:
Hmmm, for #1 I've had delays when trying to reset achievements/leaderboards (it takes a while for the service to actually reflect the changes) but I don't think I've ever run into a delay being able to log in after linking everything.

#2 sounds...really weird. When does it do this? When the login UI tries popping?

#3, what's your game? :D
Click to expand...

The good news is that I finally figured out what was wrong. I set up my app with the wrong SHA1 fingerprint code, and I was able to fix it. Now I'm able to connect to the service.

However, I'm still having the issue with the game stretching when you initially log in, but when you reboot the app, you stay logged in and the screen is normal again. I have no idea why this happens, but as of right now I'm not going to worry about it.

As for people who are interested, I'm currently working on a game called Arithmatic. It's a Math-based puzzle game for Android where you need to create equations that sum up to various target numbers. It's free to download and you can check it out here.

EDIT: I just released the update that adds leaderboards and achievements :D. However, there are still some things I need to do such as adding sound effects and music. Then I get to port it to Kindle.

Here are a few screenshots:

AChu2dj0702ECMdpPehWHZ2gkS7aojhlbucJCsjNc-C424kPP5VBvh_DBl6WFdbwLg=h900-rw
Click to expand...
cDQshhyTncOCObA3NFZXj096kFyU740p-mo4PmVmn62P2Kp4Ef6e2af8njyh1sQzrg=h900-rw
Click to expand...
 
E

electroflame

Member
Hindl said:
Hey guys I'm working on a mobile game in Unity, and have a general architecture question. [...]

When I initially looked into it, I saw a lot of suggestions using an event queue, where any time a character does an attack, it's added to the queue to make sure everything executes in order. But now looking at it, it seems like most of the time, the queue would be empty, and I'm seeing less of a point in using it. Would it instead be better to just have a central game manager class that in the Update checks if any attacks are ready? Or should I stick with the queue? Thanks.
Click to expand...

This still sounds a lot like having a queue of attacks, except you're not using a designated EventManager class (or something similar) and instead using the Update loop of a GameManager class (or something similar).

Either way would work, it just seems like it's a matter of how separate you want to keep things. Generally speaking, I would advise against throwing a ton of code into a GameManager's update, and instead suggest having an EventManager or BattleManager class for things like this.

Remember, you could still call BattleManager.Update inside of your GameManager's update (in case you don't want BattleManager to be a MonoBehaviour, for example), but the bonus is that you know at a glance what that code is doing. You'd know immediately that BattleManager.Update is updating the BattleManager, whereas if you just had a for loop looping through attacks in your GameManager's update, it'd be less clear what that code was doing -- and more importantly, why it was in your GameManager to begin with.

Either approach would do the job, I think, so it's more a matter of design preference, and extensibility down the line. There's nothing wrong with an empty queue -- but having a queue of timestamped events to run through seems like it would be a decent approach to this problem, in my opinion.
 
M

_machine

Member
More UI, this time with a concept of the revised level graphics and shaman style:
uiconceptnewnewfkkb5.png
Click to expand...
Could use some quick thoughts on:

-Readability: How well can you find all the necessary information and how does it compare against the game world?

-Element placement: is everything in a logical place and how does compare to games of the same genre (TBS and TGC)

-Quality: How visually pleasing is the overall style?

We've already made a few changes to adapt the concept into placeholder art so the programmers can start implementing the functionality, but now we need some more feedback to nail the style down. The UI artist is currently working on the new Card design so I'll be sure show them once we have something concrete.
 
W

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
_machine said:
More UI, this time with a concept of the revised level graphics and shaman style:

Could use some quick thoughts on:

-Readability: How well can you find all the necessary information and how does it compare against the game world?

-Element placement: is everything in a logical place and how does compare to games of the same genre (TBS and TGC)

-Quality: How visually pleasing is the overall style?

We've already made a few changes to adapt the concept into placeholder art so the programmers can start implementing the functionality, but now we need some more feedback to nail the style down. The UI artist is currently working on the new Card design so I'll be sure show them once we have something concrete.
Click to expand...

Okay, so one major thing that sticks out to me as a TCG fiend. I always look for Attack on the left, Defense on the right. Sort of a happy to glad change, but it's what feels natural. See examples below. I'm a big proponent of not changing end user expectations just to be different. This is what lead to a dozen shitty FPS controls before they sort of became standardized.

Examples
Image.ashx
hearthstone3-1364077961.jpg

solforge03.jpg
 
J

Jumplion

Member
_machine said:
More UI, this time with a concept of the revised level graphics and shaman style:

Could use some quick thoughts on:

-Readability: How well can you find all the necessary information and how does it compare against the game world?

-Element placement: is everything in a logical place and how does compare to games of the same genre (TBS and TGC)

-Quality: How visually pleasing is the overall style?

We've already made a few changes to adapt the concept into placeholder art so the programmers can start implementing the functionality, but now we need some more feedback to nail the style down. The UI artist is currently working on the new Card design so I'll be sure show them once we have something concrete.
Click to expand...

As someone who hasn't kept up with your stuff, I feel like I can generally get an idea for what information the UI is giving me for the game, so that's really good right off the bat.

One thing I do want to note is the health, attack, etc... stuff on the lower left probably could be cleaned up. Unless the numbers change a lot mid-turn, like maybe there's a status effect that gives them only 1/2 of their full power back per turn, or you only gain 1 movement back after each turn or something (again, don't know how exactly the mechanics work) it doesn't seem too necessary to have a "3/3" or "2/4". A simple "3" or "2" would suffice, especially if those numbers just get filled back up at the end of a turn. Hearthstone does this, showing red when it's below the default and green when it's above (ninja'd, see above).

I also feel like the words "health", "movement", etc... probably aren't ultimately needed, especially since it looks like the enemy doesn't have that either. The icons are pretty much staples in gaming lexicon, so it should be good.

If there's a health regen spell or some such you could have it to where it'll show you how much HP out of the total the person you are about to heal back as I assume that max health is more on a need-to-know basis in your game.

Side note, great job having this mostly icon based. Helps a great deal with color-blind folk.
 
H

HP_Wuvcraft

Banned
Okay. Just got AXIS Game Factory and a bunch of add-ons and DLC on Steam.

Anyone else use this? Been just making stuff so far, nothing really for a future project yet. Well. Been prototyping with help from YT.

Any GAF have any tips?
 
W

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Jumplion said:
I also feel like the words "health", "movement", etc... probably aren't ultimately needed, especially since it looks like the enemy doesn't have that either. The icons are pretty much staples in gaming lexicon, so it should be good.
Click to expand...

Disagree with the heat of a thousand burning kittens. The icons are anything but standard (part of the charm) and it's asking a hell of a lot of a player to remember what icons mean what. I mean, the sword, sure. But the swirly fire looking thing for health? A heart would be "staple." I'm not saying change the icons - far from it - but you absolutely must keep the reminder text on what they mean. It costs nothing to keep them in there and taking them out could put out some players. Personally, it's one of my pet peeves when designers think you can read their minds on some of this stuff. Like, is the bow "range" or is "ranged attack power?" Is the foot movement or initiative? It all makes sense as it, I wouldn't touch the text for anything.
 
M

_machine

Member
WanderingWind said:
Okay, so one major thing that sticks out to me as a TCG fiend. I always look for Attack on the left, Defense on the right. Sort of a happy to glad change, but it's what feels natural. See examples below. I'm a big proponent of not changing end user expectations just to be different. This is what lead to a dozen shitty FPS controls before they sort of became standardized.
Click to expand...
Yeah, our initial placeholder card design just doesn't work so we aren't trying to change established positions with that one. I'll try to get some rough sketches of the new design today, but rest assured that we will give the card design the time and polish it needs :)

Jumplion said:
As someone who hasn't kept up with your stuff, I feel like I can generally get an idea for what information the UI is giving me for the game, so that's really good right off the bat.

One thing I do want to note is the health, attack, etc... stuff on the lower left probably could be cleaned up. Unless the numbers change a lot mid-turn, like maybe there's a status effect that gives them only 1/2 of their full power back per turn, or you only gain 1 movement back after each turn or something (again, don't know how exactly the mechanics work) it doesn't seem too necessary to have a "3/3" or "2/4". A simple "3" or "2" would suffice, especially if those numbers just get filled back up at the end of a turn. Hearthstone does this, showing red when it's below the default and green when it's above (ninja'd, see above).

I also feel like the words "health", "movement", etc... probably aren't ultimately needed, especially since it looks like the enemy doesn't have that either. The icons are pretty much staples in gaming lexicon, so it should be good.

If there's a health regen spell or some such you could have it to where it'll show you how much HP out of the total the person you are about to heal back as I assume that max health is more on a need-to-know basis in your game.

Side note, great job having this mostly icon based. Helps a great deal with color-blind folk.
Click to expand...
Thank you, it's good to hear feedback from people that have little previous knowledge of the game. I agree that the character command card feels a bit cluttered and should be toned down, though we are still experimenting on how we accomplish that. The text thing is a divisive thing here as well, I personally don't think that it should be necessary, especially as it's not there on the cards, but on other hand there are 4 stats and 1 skill there so some people might get confused about the meanings.

Good stuff though, we really appreciate it :)
 
bad guy

bad guy

as bad as Danny Zuko in gym knickers
Does anybody know a free gamemaking program for Android?
I'd like to make a very simple game for mobiles, and the price of Gamemakers Android module is too much for me.

Edit:
Or is it possible to submit my game in HTML5 to the Google Play Store?
Because I have the HTML5 module for Gamemaker.
 
V

Violet_0

Banned
WanderingWind said:
Disagree with the heat of a thousand burning kittens. The icons are anything but standard (part of the charm) and it's asking a hell of a lot of a player to remember what icons mean what.
Click to expand...

display the name of the icon if you hover over it with the mouse (if it's a pc game) or tap on it (mobile). After a few minutes the player should be familiar with the icons and the text is no longer needed. Would also help with complicated card mechanics that need further explanation
 
B

Blizzard

Banned
Violet_0 said:
display the name of the icon if you hover over it with the mouse (if it's a pc game) or tap on it (mobile). After a few minutes the player should be familiar with the icons and the text is no longer needed. Would also help with complicated card mechanics that need further explanation
Click to expand...
Tooltips! I am considering those for my own game. It allows you to save UI space and still allow players who need a reminder to get some quick extra explanation.
 
M

_machine

Member
Violet_0 said:
display the name of the icon if you hover over it with the mouse (if it's a pc game) or tap on it (mobile). After a few minutes the player should be familiar with the icons and the text is no longer needed. Would also help with complicated card mechanics that need further explanation
Click to expand...

Blizzard said:
Tooltips! I am considering those for my own game. It allows you to save UI space and still allow players who need a reminder to get some quick extra explanation.
Click to expand...
Yup, I think I'd prefer having the text in Tooltip as well since once I've familiarized myself with the icons I think the texts are just redundant clutter. In any case, we're thinking some UI customization would be good for our game.
 
W

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Violet_0 said:
display the name of the icon if you hover over it with the mouse (if it's a pc game) or tap on it (mobile). After a few minutes the player should be familiar with the icons and the text is no longer needed. Would also help with complicated card mechanics that need further explanation
Click to expand...

Yes, this would be ideal. But between having them or not having them, there really is no debate. Whether in tool tips or displayed prominently, you have to give the players the basic info in a universally understood way.
 
D

DigiMish

Member
uiconceptnewnewfkkb5.png
Click to expand...

Your icons are too stylized, making them hard to tell what they are. Tone it down a bit, even on the sword and the bow.

Regarding the images, these are pretty much universal and neutral:

Health: potion, shield, plus medical sign
Attack: sword, explody icon
Movement: arrow(s)
Ranged: bow/gun, radius icon
 
M

_machine

Member
DigiMish said:
Your icons are too stylized, making them hard to tell what they are. Tone it down a bit, even on the sword and the bow.

Regarding the images, these are pretty much universal and neutral:

Health: potion, shield, plus medical sign
Attack: sword, explody icon
Movement: arrow(s)
Ranged: bow/gun, radius icon
Click to expand...
Yeah, we'll definitely change them since they were just a quick attempt to try something different. Thanks for the examples, especially the movement and range need to be really clear.
 
B

Blizzard

Banned
I don't mean to brag, but I wanted to make a brief positive post since I felt rather discouraged recently. After that week or so where I was chasing a hard-to-reproduce bug, doing basically nothing else work-wise, things have been a lot better within a day or two of getting the fix in.

I fixed 3 bugs yesterday, and did 5 new features/tasks today. They're small fixes and features, but that's still progress. One of the tasks involved a minor cleanup and refactor of a bunch of variables. Once I got things compiling again, I think everything even worked perfectly almost immediately, with only maybe one or two adjustments required.

Onward! But first, sleep.
 
P

Paz

Member
We are a couple days away from reaching Alpha on Cactus and the feeling of having all the stages and menus in the game is pretty amazing. Also nerve-racking and terrifying because it puts us a skip and a hop away from releasing a finished game.

Anybody have suggestions for good launch trailer reference (preferably something in the same style but anything good will do)? Or resources that talk about good approaches to trailers?

I was quite proud of the announcement trailer we made after about ~3 months of dev (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5QYf7n4iOY) but want to try and do even better for the launch trailer since we will have all of the content to draw on rather than just the 4 levels, 4 characters, and one boss we had then :)
 
J

Jacksinthe

Banned
SpacePirate Ridley said:
Thanks for the info, could redeem your first code!
Going to try it now, the music is already pretty great!

EDIT AHHH
Got 594954 my second time.
Im really bad with shmups lol
Really addictive yet difficult. Was killed just when I got a new weapon that locked on enemies :(
Are there stages or is just infinte?

The music is amazing.
Click to expand...
Thanks! My audio guru hit 44m yesterday. That is bonkers and THANK YOU. The guy is a genius with music.

He will be doing the music for our PS4/XO/PC game. He is crazy amazing.
 
J

Jacksinthe

Banned
So yeah.

I guess it's a thing that websites that do reviews are asking you to fucking pay them to review your app? You want me to pay you, give you my game for free just so you can add content to your own website? What the fuck?

I'm not even talking about the "pay for app marketing quick! 15% off only today! you are so lucky we just saw your app!" emails - but gaming websites asking me to pay them to review my game. Yeah, no thanks. It really isn't that pressing.
 
D

Dynamite Shikoku

Congratulations, you really deserve it!
AbsintheGames said:
So yeah.

I guess it's a thing that websites that do reviews are asking you to fucking pay them to review your app? You want me to pay you, give you my game for free just so you can add content to your own website? What the fuck?

I'm not even talking about the "pay for app marketing quick! 15% off only today! you are so lucky we just saw your app!" emails - but gaming websites asking me to pay them to review my game. Yeah, no thanks. It really isn't that pressing.
Click to expand...

You should name them, put them in the OP as sites that ask for money for reviews so other people don't waste time on them
 
B

BlastProcessing

Member
AbsintheGames said:
So yeah.

I guess it's a thing that websites that do reviews are asking you to fucking pay them to review your app? You want me to pay you, give you my game for free just so you can add content to your own website? What the fuck?

I'm not even talking about the "pay for app marketing quick! 15% off only today! you are so lucky we just saw your app!" emails - but gaming websites asking me to pay them to review my game. Yeah, no thanks. It really isn't that pressing.
Click to expand...

The vast majority of mobile sites I have contacted do this. Quite the eye opener.

Dynamite Shikoku said:
You should name them, put them in the OP as sites that ask for money for reviews so other people don't waste time on them
Click to expand...

Pretty much all of the mobile sites will at least suggest you pay for"expedited review". The few Mommy Bloggers I contacted were even more blatant.

It's one of the reasons I never want to develop for mobile again.
 
W

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
AbsintheGames said:
So yeah.

I guess it's a thing that websites that do reviews are asking you to fucking pay them to review your app? You want me to pay you, give you my game for free just so you can add content to your own website? What the fuck?

I'm not even talking about the "pay for app marketing quick! 15% off only today! you are so lucky we just saw your app!" emails - but gaming websites asking me to pay them to review my game. Yeah, no thanks. It really isn't that pressing.
Click to expand...

Well, wait. If you're saying they're asking for money, that's fucked up. If you're saying the reviewer isn't going to come out of pocket to buy your game, that's pretty industry standard. My news organization does accept review code, but I have come out of pocket for plenty of games.
 
D

Dynamite Shikoku

Congratulations, you really deserve it!
BlastProcessing said:
The vast majority of mobile sites I have contacted do this. Quite the eye opener.



Pretty much all of the mobile sites will at least suggest you pay for"expedited review". The few Mommy Bloggers I contacted were even more blatant.
Click to expand...

I don't know how much things have changed, but my iOS game 2 years ago got reviewed on most of the major touch gaming sites without any requests for payment
 
W

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
I mean, the standard has always been if you want your mobile game review done, let a reviewer know. Right now, I have literally nothing to fill the review queue with. So you know. Let people know.
 
J

Jacksinthe

Banned
Dynamite Shikoku said:
You should name them, put them in the OP as sites that ask for money for reviews so other people don't waste time on them
Click to expand...
I'm only that vindictive against other GAF members XD

BlastProcessing said:
The vast majority of mobile sites I have contacted do this. Quite the eye opener.



Pretty much all of the mobile sites will at least suggest you pay for"expedited review". The few Mommy Bloggers I contacted were even more blatant.

It's one of the reasons I never want to develop for mobile again.
Click to expand...
Damn.

WanderingWind said:
Well, wait. If you're saying they're asking for money, that's fucked up. If you're saying the reviewer isn't going to come out of pocket to buy your game, that's pretty industry standard. My news organization does accept review code, but I have come out of pocket for plenty of games.
Click to expand...
No they flat out request money for flat out reviewing. I have codes to give reviewers so they don't have to pay - I know that much ha.
 
J

Jumplion

Member
WanderingWind said:
Disagree with the heat of a thousand burning kittens. The icons are anything but standard (part of the charm) and it's asking a hell of a lot of a player to remember what icons mean what. I mean, the sword, sure. But the swirly fire looking thing for health? A heart would be "staple." I'm not saying change the icons - far from it - but you absolutely must keep the reminder text on what they mean. It costs nothing to keep them in there and taking them out could put out some players. Personally, it's one of my pet peeves when designers think you can read their minds on some of this stuff. Like, is the bow "range" or is "ranged attack power?" Is the foot movement or initiative? It all makes sense as it, I wouldn't touch the text for anything.
Click to expand...

I feel that, in gameplay, if the game properly taught the player how the game flow goes then confusion over the icons shouldn't be too much of a problem. It's like, a regular person might not know what the squares on top of everyone are, or someone just looking at it might not know what the symbols on the bottom do, but a player knows that they are and what they need. And boy, I know for certain what every little icon in Dark Souls means after playing it for so long. This goes over to the ambiguity in the things like the foot or the bow/arrow, and basic process of elimination, and the color coding (which might be an issue for color-blind people, but the symbols should make up for that).

A lot of this depends on the specifics of the game and how the mechanics work.

Like others said, though, tooltips are probably the best compromise in this situation. The tutorial should be clear enough to let the player know what the symbols mean and if they need a reminder just hover over them to have it highlighted (or better yet have it toggled in the options menu). At the very least, probably would be nice to have the font/style of the words match a bit better with the game itself.
 
W

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Yeah, if they're asking money, why fuck with them then? Fuck 'em. We have only turned down one review request and that's because the developers made a real shitty joke about pulling future review code if we didn't give them an A. We couldn't even be seen as potentially being on the take. We don't even play with that shit.

Seriously though, we're a huge site and people think that we won't review their games because X reasons. Reputable sites will review 9 times out of 10, if you just ask them. You really would be surprised.

Dynamite Shikoku said:
What site is this for?
Click to expand...

If I answer this publicly, it's about two clicks to completely dox me. I will answer this in PMs if anybody is interested in me firing off an email from my work address to work out a potential review situation.
 
T

thenewjeva

Member
Paying for reviews is complete bull. Most of the big sites like AppsZoom charge you $100 ($250 for a video review) to get your game reviewed within 48 hours, however, after talking to a representative, it seems like they will eventually review your game for free if they find it interesting enough.

Anyway, I've been getting positive reception from people who've played. I would like it if some site were to review my game. Any tips on marketing and spreading the word about a game would be greatly appreciated.
 
W

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
thenewjeva said:
Paying for reviews is complete bull. Most of the big sites like AppsZoom charge you $100 ($250 for a video review) to get your game reviewed within 48 hours, however, after talking to a representative, it seems like they will eventually review your game for free if they find it interesting enough.

Anyway, I've been getting positive reception from people who've played. I would like it if some site were to review my game. Any tips on marketing and spreading the word about a game would be greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...

I am a journalist with a marketing degree. Seriously, just let people know you have a game. Perhaps run your email through somebody to proofread it and just ask. I can't speak for IGN or Kotaku or anything, but the secret to good games marketing is largely to not be scared of talking to people.
 
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