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GAF Indie Game Development Thread 2: High Res Work for Low Res Pay
- Thread starter Jacksinthe
- Start date
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If you are using Unity, how difficult is it to setup a scene for oculus? Is it just a matter of drop their camera into the scene and away you go? Also, I'm curious if anyone who uses fixed perspective 3d has made use of oculus. It seems like it could be and interesting use. head movement to pan/tilt the scene but still playing on top/down fixed perspective like stardiver. It may not be the intended use for VR, but curious if it would be fun anyway.
it's the easiest thing in the world. You just import a package, and drop in a prefab, and you're good to go. It comes with an input controller that you could use, or you can rip that out and make your own like I did with the jetpack. It supports gamepad right out of the box, and it's just otherwise completely solid.
All of the things I've tested so far have been past projects. The video I posted above was of a pathfinding assignment I did half a year ago (with some added geometry and about an hour's worth of work making the jetpack controls), and I've also ran it through some other assignments that I made as well as briefly stuck it in Citizen Burger Disorder.
So far I've greatly enjoyed the awareness the rift gives you with player movement, as the thing I am most interested in with games is how the players can interface with them. I love making games where the controls have really solid parity with the actions onscreen, and with the rift it gives you the freedom to do some really crazy shit, like having collisions actually knock the player off-centre and have them fall down. It's something that would never have an impact in a traditional game, but it feels really effective and disorientating to just get knocked out onto the ground where you still get to have some element of peripheral awareness (and it makes it all the more disorienting in moments where you completely lose it).
Not that any retail game is ever going to go as stupid as I've gone in the video above, but it's pretty clear to me that you can done down a lot of my more experimental elements and make a really cool traversal game, or a combat game where you can get knocked about, or just any kind of experience where you're not just a boring, static, camera-on-a-stick like you are in every first person game out there.
More_Badass
Member
I was wondering where the dev thread went! Congrats on reaching a new OT, always enjoy lurking here.
Haven't updated it in a while, but here's list of Twitter pages of devs from the previous OT.
http://neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=135081127&postcount=17326
Haven't updated it in a while, but here's list of Twitter pages of devs from the previous OT.
http://neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=135081127&postcount=17326
Jacksinthe
Banned
I'll do a comparison before I go to bed to make sure everyone is in the Doc in the OP
plagiarize
Banned
I really like the feel of this. Reminds me of tron and lawnmower man mixed
Visually I take most of my inspiration from vector graphics running on a real vector display. They had these cool glowing outlines. I guess it's a lot of where Tron got it's look from too. Tron is an influence, obviously but I'm specifically trying to avoid grids and hexagons (I have one suspended ceiling in an office area that's a grid so far).
It's also something I knew I could achieve. I feel I have a decent eye for aesthetics, but I have next to zero artistic talent. Building more detailed environments as the game progresses, is part of the storyline, so it's been nice ramping things up. My current level has way more static meshes than my earliest, which were 100% bsps.
Then there's stuff that's just kind of been born out by necessity, or just chance. As I build stuff and test it out, sometimes things really pop out, or you get a strange optical illusion you weren't expecting and then you try to figure out where to use that.
Weekends I tend to spend longer trying to figure out new things like today, adding basic physics elements and a particle effect into one of the levels. Last week I added VR comfort mode. It's been a really cool learning experience so far, and a really rewarding one too. I still have a long ways to go, obviously, but if I can keep up the steady progress I know I can make it!
Purple Cheeto
Member
electroflame
Member
Man, you must have an iron stomach. I can barely use my Rift without getting nauseous (although, I guess that's because I'm one of those weirdos that don't get great depth perception when using the Rift).
I feel like you've essentially created the best way to get motion sick, and have an epileptic seizure at the same time.
So I found out about this Unity-based Construct 2-like editor called AGF PRO tools. Basically, you create your game, import it to Unity, then compile.
It's currently on sale on Steam for $9.99 or $35.99 for the premium (normally $70).
They have a demo as well, and I'm checking it out... if this thing is legit, that would make games WAY easier than having to learn Unity all myself.
It's currently on sale on Steam for $9.99 or $35.99 for the premium (normally $70).
They have a demo as well, and I'm checking it out... if this thing is legit, that would make games WAY easier than having to learn Unity all myself.
Jacksinthe
Banned
What are you looking to sidestep, Unity wise? Learning a new toolset (AGF) just so you don't have to learn a new toolset (Unity) seems counter-productive.
All of the main management is rather quick and easy to learn in Unity. Very straight forward with heirarchy, scene, etc. If you are just looking to overcome the programming barrier I'd look at PlayMaker, personally. Lots of people use it to great effect.
I mean, if you are going to go down that road and want to make the switch to Unity, make the switch and learn it if that is your end game.
You can check out UE4, too. Lots here have loved making that switch it seems and its output looks phenominal. Its on my list for sure.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
AFAIK its just a level design tool with a lot of prefabs for kitbashing and "DLC" prepackaged scripts for various game genres (FPS, platformer, etc).
I think you might be better off looking into something like Playmaker on the asset store for a visual scripting solution that bypasses learning code.
EDIT:
Also FYI that Steam sale is not that great if you really want it - I've seen it pop up for like $10 with all the DLC a few times on various indie bundles before
Unity has a few different visual scripting plugins. I messed around with Playmaker for a while before I started to really get into coding myself. I liked Playmaker but I really was more interested in learning to code and knew a little c# already. Otherwise I am sure Playmaker would have been great to put a game together.
Bit of a late #screenshotsaturday:
Just uploaded a new build to Steam. Been working on combat a lot. Redid the Backdash and split it up into a Block (short, invincibility frames) and an Evade (moves you back, no i-frames), and fixed up enemy attack patterns accordingly, with combos and unblockable attacks. I've also added some enemies that use a painting as a shield (see above). They're kind of invincible until you burn it with your torch.
Just uploaded a new build to Steam. Been working on combat a lot. Redid the Backdash and split it up into a Block (short, invincibility frames) and an Evade (moves you back, no i-frames), and fixed up enemy attack patterns accordingly, with combos and unblockable attacks. I've also added some enemies that use a painting as a shield (see above). They're kind of invincible until you burn it with your torch.
Mr. Luchador
Member
I've been messing around with different art apps, trying to find the one I like the most for when it comes to trying my hand at 'pixel art'.
I like how far you can zoom in with MS Paint, but don't like you can't save the file, go back and edit it.
I like how GraFX2 zooms in and offers a true size window, but it doesn't zoom in enough (compared to MS Paint). Also it feels sluggish to use.
Photoshop feels too much and I can't get the grid to align with the pixels.
I like how far you can zoom in with MS Paint, but don't like you can't save the file, go back and edit it.
I like how GraFX2 zooms in and offers a true size window, but it doesn't zoom in enough (compared to MS Paint). Also it feels sluggish to use.
Photoshop feels too much and I can't get the grid to align with the pixels.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
Mr. Luchador
Member
Nice, I'll check that out - thanks!
I'm checking the ones out in the OP too, I've used GIMP before so not sure why I didn't think about it in the first place.
I'm checking the ones out in the OP too, I've used GIMP before so not sure why I didn't think about it in the first place.
AusRoachman
Member
Started working on my new game idea. I have always wanted to take the idea of minecraft building with other game ideas besides survival. My idea is to combine the level building/saving/sharing with minecraft style time trials .
No combat, just you and your mates building levels and racing for the best times. Thanks to some amazing unity packages I have got a pretty big head start (ufps and acparkour) .
Combining my own voxel building solution and I've already got a good start (building your playground and parkour moves).
To give everyone an idea of what I want to try and create is minecraft style level building with this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jo2NAQ7-DFc
No combat, just you and your mates building levels and racing for the best times. Thanks to some amazing unity packages I have got a pretty big head start (ufps and acparkour) .
Combining my own voxel building solution and I've already got a good start (building your playground and parkour moves).
To give everyone an idea of what I want to try and create is minecraft style level building with this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jo2NAQ7-DFc
MR BLACKMAGIK
Member
I did see the info mentioned in the OP. That sucks that the numbers are behind an NDA. So you basically have to get to the point of releasing your game before you can find out how much it will cost? I'm guessing a first time dev wouldn't be put very high in the queue.
Hey, thanks! You worked on GunWorld, right? I'm really surprised that it didn't do well on Kickstarter (and honestly, kind of worried, since like you said my game is NES styled too...)
Jacksinthe
Banned
List updated in OP!
As myself and others suggested - PlayMaker.
If you have and use Photoshop - what about zooming in on a pixel level causes pixels to go out of alignment? Here is STRAFE zoomed in to see the pixel grid:
Or are you trying to create sprites at full-scale (let's say 1080p) instead of on a pixel level then scaling via nearest neighbor? And if your pixels are not going to be perfectly square (let's say 4:3) - just make a new image in photoshop the exact size of your pixel you need and save it as a brush - then just use that brush with perfect pixel scaling. Zoomed into a pixel level you can get lined up to the pixel grid perfectly without worrying about things not lining up. 4 pixels wide by 3 pixels tall will always be 4 pixels wide by 3 pixels tall zoomed in. There is no grid to worry about zoomed in like 800% or whatever works
Outside of devkits - how are you managing development without knowing a ballpark of what your development will cost? We know from publicly available information that MS slings devkits for "Free" and all 3 of the console manufacturers give you Unity for free.
Plus when you are accepted into any of their programs you have to sign the necessary NDAs since you are given access to all of their tools, including devkits - so you will know the pricing waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay ahead of time.
If you are waiting until your game is almost finished before signing up with any of the console manufacturers - you will be putting your game on hold for a long time waiting to get the ball rolling before any of them approve your game's submission, let alone the wait it takes to become an approved developer.
Ideally, you want to at least get into their respective programs as soon as possible - that means just filling out any of their online forms and waiting to hear back - that's literally it. You don't have to have a game ready to ship to be accepted into their programs. The wait can vary depending on queue times. Sometimes its fast - other times it isn't. Varies from developer to developer from those I have spoken with both "new" to the industry and extremely popular veterans.
Bottom line: game ready or first scribble - fill out their applications as soon as you possibly can to, at the very least, get into their developer programs where you can see pricing on devkits, gain access to tools, etc.
Edit: There's no reason anyone in this thread with a drawing of a stick figure on a napkin that wants to make a game from that isn't submitting their apps to all 3 UNLESS you only don't meet their application requirements - which - none of them "require" you have a game ready to ship.
Mr. Luchador
Member
If you have and use Photoshop - what about zooming in on a pixel level causes pixels to go out of alignment? Here is STRAFE zoomed in to see the pixel grid:
Or are you trying to create sprites at full-scale (let's say 1080p) instead of on a pixel level then scaling via nearest neighbor? And if your pixels are not going to be perfectly square (let's say 4:3) - just make a new image in photoshop the exact size of your pixel you need and save it as a brush - then just use that brush with perfect pixel scaling. Zoomed into a pixel level you can get lined up to the pixel grid perfectly without worrying about things not lining up. 4 pixels wide by 3 pixels tall will always be 4 pixels wide by 3 pixels tall zoomed in. There is no grid to worry about zoomed in like 800% or whatever works
I'll try that too. I was zooming in on pixel level, but the default grid was out alignment (it felt like it on the 'snap to' fixture but it wasn't). I wasn't trying to make 1080p designs, I was starting small as I'm just getting used to the art side of it. It'll take a while!
So the above is an example of how the 'default' settings seem to align the grid, where as the pixels always seem to hang off it. I've probably not set it up correctly, so I'll try the above and read around a bit more.
EDIT:
You were indeed correct. I just needed to zoom in a ton more and use the 'natural' pixel grid and not the 'view' grid. D'oh. OK, Photoshop could be the way forward. Thanks for all the help! Maybe I can move on from drawing crude pixel fruit.
Jacksinthe
Banned
I am not sure where the other grid came from that is on top of the checkered grid ??? that's definitely not the pixel grid since the pixel grid lines up with the checkered grid:
Were you looking at a Photoshop tutorial on how to set up that other grid? I honestly have no clue how that grid got like that.
Under VIEW > SHOW - make sure only Pixel Grid is selected and no other settings have changed. Other than that I have no clue. Maybe someone else who knows more about Photoshop can sling some input.
If not, plenty of other sprite tools like you were looking at
Also, in the beginning of the second post there are 2 links with more tools listed - here's a more comprehensive list:
http://ludumdare.com/compo/tools/
oxrock
Gravity is a myth, the Earth SUCKS!
What's wrong with GIMP?
electroflame
Member
Well, remember, you're not learning Unity, you're learning C# (which, in my opinion, is way more useful than being locked in to some kind of visual scripting language).
As others have mentioned, Playmaker would be better if you have your heart set on visual scripting. Not only does it (and by it, I mean the overall quality of the product) look more "professional", but many assets on the Asset Store support it out-of-the-box. If you're going for full-on visual scripting there are many more integrations for Playmaker than there are for AGF PRO.
PetriP-TNT
Member
You can adjust your view grid sections in the settings, make sure they match the actual pixels
Mr. Luchador
Member
I had forgot all about it until today, so there's probably nothing wrong with it!
Jacksinthe
Banned
Glad that did it
Conkersbadfurday
Member
Anyone know anything about Digital Tribe Games? I guess they're some kind of indie publisher (oxymoron there), and they seem legit. Got an email from them, and they're looking to see if I have anything playable for them to check out, which is pretty cool.
But the Internet has turned me into a cynical piece of shit, so I don't trust any of this, at least not yet.
Anyone have any dealings with them? I guess they helped port SPec Ops: The LIne to Mac. That's pretty cool.
But the Internet has turned me into a cynical piece of shit, so I don't trust any of this, at least not yet.
Anyone have any dealings with them? I guess they helped port SPec Ops: The LIne to Mac. That's pretty cool.
plagiarize
Banned
Another short video showing bit more level design work from Primitive:
http://youtu.be/dvqNsTq311g
You can see some rooms inside the 'house', and a platforming section.
I'm about halfway done with level 5.
http://youtu.be/dvqNsTq311g
You can see some rooms inside the 'house', and a platforming section.
I'm about halfway done with level 5.
akachan ningen
Member
Sounds like a good plan. Congrats on finishing the game.Whoa, i think my migraine meds are kicking in. What exactly is going on here? Looks rad.
Gaf, what would your launch plans be if you were sitting on a completed game? I'm days away from wrapping up Shutter, here's my launch plan.
- Make a trailer
- Submit game to Desura and GOG
- Start a greenlight page
- Send out Desura download codes/trailer to press for review
- Hopefully have reviews point back to the greenlight page
Thoughts?
Heres a screenshot of our new "distortion" particle effect for the ghost I just added in last night.
Jacksinthe
Banned
I've already looked at playmaker, and it doesn't hurt to have options guys, thanks
I'll use this discussion to create a really bad segue from discussions of specific tools to why it's a great idea to shift resources, tools and structure. A lot of this stems from my conversations with other developer friends about ALMOST this very topic. Here's the short version:
Regurgitation.
The long version:
Tools are part of the iterative process for development, that much is understood, but what is often looked over is that tools are a part of the creative process, as well. If anyone's main function or goal when switching to a different tool, even if it's just a compiler, looking for only tools that function to what you are used to or function in as like-for-like manner as they can to your current tools often leads to stagnation.
It's never a good idea to switch to a tool solely for the purpose of maintaining functionality of the tools you already use. That is a mere bullet point. Creative directors, artists, musicians, programmers, etc - should focus on looking at tools that can add to, or change in current, what they are used to working with.
This allows the comfort zone of the individuals working on them to dramatically change in size, scope, iteration, etc. Simply changing the shape of the comfort zone without increasing its scope allows for broader creativity. Moving from one style or set of tools to another just because they function the same does not expand, change, alter the size of or break any of those self-imposed boundaries. They continue to feed the status quo and rely on regurgitation of known methods instead of creatively seeking solutions to problems we all create for ourselves.
I've seen too many people get stuck on a single method, a single iterative process that, after time, that is all they are willing to accept. They become cocooned in this safe zone of theirs and are reluctant to simply peek outside. It's scary out there, for sure, but you know what to expect - it's the usual suspects:
Knowns
Known Unknowns
Unknown Unknowns
The beauty of venturing out into the woods is that, even in failure, feeds the creative process - making the iterative portion that much easier.
Take what I started on yesterday, for example. I began work on another custom input controller. Sure I already have one. Sure I could just use that for my current project. But where's the fun in that? I began rewriting it from the ground up using different methods. My first functioned perfectly fine. Easy to implement, easy to configure, easy to use. My newest version is even better - I'm using a different structure from my previous outing. I'm using different tools I've learned from my first time out to improve upon something I'm already comfortable with.
Even before that I just recently revamped my custom physics and collision - like almost a dozen times. I didn't need to. But when I did - I opened up more avenues due to new tricks I've learned and thus, widened my safety net allowing me greater creative freedom moving forward. Before doing any of this when I was a musician the music I wrote was nothing like the music I listened to. Going from rolling some hardcore Paganini to popping in Skinny Puppy and Lords of Acid is jarring - but diversity kept my creative juices flowing. Writing nothing but classical piano pieces helped sharpen my key skills when designing (not just playing) synths I would need to write my remixes.
Tools and methods aren't just meant for the iteration. They are a large part of the creative process and opening your mind to different things and venturing outside your safety zone can lead to great things.
Just my .02
Every time I see this or Visioneck I weep inside at what an FPS STRAFE could have been and remind myself how much I suck hahah!
plagiarize
Banned
Seriously, if I can make a game that looks like Primitive I'm sure just about everyone in this thread could.
SeanNoonan
Member
Reporting in with a pixel daily!
Also started working on a new game today - excited! I'm still working on the next Jack B. Nimble update, but I just needed a little distraction.
Also started working on a new game today - excited! I'm still working on the next Jack B. Nimble update, but I just needed a little distraction.
I realized today I hadn't really nailed down much of the design for what I'm working on outside of my combat system. I know I want it to be a sidescroller, but I don't want platforming. The ideas I've been considering are:
Roguelike- Basically, you choose one of the classes to start and progress through levels picking up other classes as you go. You wouldn't get to build a party, but would have to use what characters you are given (for the most part, I'd probably include a shop to buy different characters during a run) to survive.
-Another idea was the idea of rebuilding a town / settlement in which you sent a party off to run smaller dungeons. You would unlock more classes and areas as you progressed. I could have small dungeons / missions that are procedurally generated this way as well, or design them the old fashioned way.
Oh, and here's an image
Roguelike- Basically, you choose one of the classes to start and progress through levels picking up other classes as you go. You wouldn't get to build a party, but would have to use what characters you are given (for the most part, I'd probably include a shop to buy different characters during a run) to survive.
-Another idea was the idea of rebuilding a town / settlement in which you sent a party off to run smaller dungeons. You would unlock more classes and areas as you progressed. I could have small dungeons / missions that are procedurally generated this way as well, or design them the old fashioned way.
Oh, and here's an image
Thanks for the info.... now you have me really wanting to get a oculus devkit
plagiarize
Banned
UE4 has really great Oculus Rift support too. I didn't get my devkit with designing a game in mind, but it's part of what got me developing. Building an environment and *then stepping inside it*.
It's an amazing experience.
Slightly odd question:
I've been asked to teach an elective game audio course at a nearby university. Basically a Game Audio 101 to a mix of disciplines, trying to cover a few different things from history, culture, theory, implementation, tech... a fair amount of topics under the Game Audio banner.
Basically, is there anything IndieGAF wishes they'd known (or would want to know) about game audio in that sort of scenario? What sort of stuff would you like to be know about or have explained?
(Caveats: It's using Unity, plus an overview of FMOD, and it is very much an intro to the discipline. It's not a "how to compose" or "how to make sound effects" course either, but will go over what should be considered for each when making a game.)
I've been asked to teach an elective game audio course at a nearby university. Basically a Game Audio 101 to a mix of disciplines, trying to cover a few different things from history, culture, theory, implementation, tech... a fair amount of topics under the Game Audio banner.
Basically, is there anything IndieGAF wishes they'd known (or would want to know) about game audio in that sort of scenario? What sort of stuff would you like to be know about or have explained?
(Caveats: It's using Unity, plus an overview of FMOD, and it is very much an intro to the discipline. It's not a "how to compose" or "how to make sound effects" course either, but will go over what should be considered for each when making a game.)
gambrinous
Neo Member
Anyone interested in a technical breakdown of how we achieved our scribble-in effect for Guild of Dungeoneering from a static spritesheet? Full writeup is here:
http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/Owen...Scribble_Effect_in_Guild_of_Dungeoneering.php
This is the effect in question:
http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/Owen...Scribble_Effect_in_Guild_of_Dungeoneering.php
This is the effect in question:
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
Anyone interested in a technical breakdown of how we achieved our scribble-in effect for Guild of Dungeoneering from a static spritesheet? Full writeup is here:
http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/Owen...Scribble_Effect_in_Guild_of_Dungeoneering.php
This is the effect in question:
This looks excellent, I love it.
Jacksinthe
Banned
Whoa whoa whoa! This looks awesome! Very well done!Anyone interested in a technical breakdown of how we achieved our scribble-in effect for Guild of Dungeoneering from a static spritesheet? Full writeup is here:
http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/Owen...Scribble_Effect_in_Guild_of_Dungeoneering.php
This is the effect in question:
plagiarize
Banned
I love this aesthetic. I love that it reminds me of sketching out maps of games and laser tag places on graph paper as a kid, which I'm sure is what you were going for.
Also, I'm really glad I started posting in this thread. The encouragement you guys have been giving me is really helping me stay motivated about the project.
Very cool, thanks for making the blog post and sharing!
Jacksinthe
Banned
Started working on a few various effects for Strafe's special attacks. Here's a look at the first - I might take this effect a bit further. The fading out of the individual blocks is random so it will never dissolve the same way twice.
Mr. Luchador
Member
I've always found it amazing that The SeanNoonan hangs out in the Indie Game Development thread. Secretly, I always hope he's going to announce The Wheelman 2.
Under settings, make your rulers match this.
And then when drawing shapes, make sure they snap to the pixel grid. If there are ".5px" measurements in there, it's not a 100% perfect shape an will alias.
Mr. Luchador
Member
Oh nice!
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