thomasmahler
Moon Studios
You'll still miss out on a potentially huge usergroup... So instead of punishing people who'd like to play your games on PC, change the game - Give people an incentive to not pirate your games.
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GAF Indie Game Development Thread 2: High Res Work for Low Res Pay
- Thread starter Jacksinthe
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You'll still miss out on a potentially huge usergroup... So instead of punishing people who'd like to play your games on PC, change the game - Give people an incentive to not pirate your games.
liliththepale
Banned
Thomas, is there a Win/Mac download? For whatever reason, I can't get Chrome to realize/remember that the Unity Web Player is installed.
thomasmahler
Moon Studios
What sort of Steam incentives do you recommend? For example, have you had particular success with certain incentives over others, on Steam?
That's exactly the ideaWould love to hear some feedback regarding controls, etc.
On a funny side-note: Super Turbo Drifters is kind of an awful name, since the abbreviation is 'STD' - If anyone has better ideas, I'm all ears
Do you have a DL link anywhere? My computer refuses to run Unity Web Player games for some reason...
EDIT: Wasn't paying attention... >_< Ignore what I said. I'll check out that .zip
If Unity Web Player is not working for you in Chrome, you've gotta enable NPAPI again to make it work (since last Chrome patch). This will be gone in september though so hopefully Unity will fix this.
chrome://flags/#enable-npapi
chrome://flags/#enable-npapi
liliththepale
Banned
Thanks! So some notes:
- handling is solid and the physics seem good. Hard to say much more without any kind of hopping or significant ramps in the track, though.
- I miss being able to hop. I'm sure I'd get used to not having it, but it feels strange to have drift be so instantaneous rather than take a moment to set up and engage. Also I just really like jumping in games, and a game feels incomplete to me if I can't jump.
- I can't tell if you're going for RC car or something else, so it's hard to get a sense of scale. Proper scenery would probably help with that. But racing felt rather leisurely unless a boost was engaged.
- my favorite boost model is the one from ModNation Racers. It builds the same way yours does, but you can use it before it fills up and you don't have to use it all at once. Consequently, you can build the meter much, much higher. There might be a reason for the model you've chosen, but it feels more tactical when I can control exactly where and when I'm boosting.
Oh, maybe that's it. Regardless, I'd rather avoid the unity web player wherever possible. XD
@thomasmahler:
Plays great! Nice work man. Drifting feels super natural.
My friends and I love playing old kart racers and drinking some beers when we hang out. Might add this to the collection in the future (if this is something you plan on working on)
*cough* Add split screen *cough*
Only advice i'd give is: Change the colour of the road. I know it's just a demo/prototype build but I really had trouble distinguishing the road from the not-road.
indigo-cyclops
Member
Wanted to ask, is Malebolgia a GAFfers game? It looks so familiar. Picked it up either way.
liliththepale
Banned
indigo-cyclops
Member
superNESjoe
Member
This is exactly why I won't stop supporting PC and Steam despite my frustration. I have players there that deserve my support since they have supported me. Basically just venting.
Pull a green heart games and post a pirate copy yourself. Just make it so the pirate copy cant finish or becomes impossible. Then when someone comes to you complaining, politely point out that if they bought your game they wouldn't be having that problem .
thomasmahler
Moon Studios
Not necessarily anything that has to do with Steam itself. I'd look into online features that players really, really, really want to use and pirates can't use, cause they couldn't log-on to the servers. Stuff like that. Also, update the game often and let pirates play the old versions... Just try to give even pirates the feeling that they're really missing out if they're not buying the game.
That's also my major inspiration for making Super Turbo Drifters - I just wanted to make my own little game that I can play with friends and family on the couch
Splitscreen is already implemented in the unity webPlayer link that's on the youtube page. I definitely would look for a 60fps 4 player splitscreen experience.
I also changed the track color and updated the zip file (same download link as before), so now the street is gray and the dirt is brown. Still no 'real' graphics, but first things first
Glad you liked the controls
That's the biggest thing right now, I just want to get the controls to feel perfect.I didn't implement the hop cause I always liked how Diddy Kong Racing did the drifting. I'll maybe add the hop at some point, a lot of people have requested that
Mine was just based on Ridge Racer
I like the ModNation idea, it adds some more strategy to it, so thanks for the idea!That's almost a form of online DRM, something I really dislike.
I guess that's a downside of idealism, ha.Thanks! The campaign is single player for now. If we get arcade mode in there, it will definitely be co-op.
Here's a new trailer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnjqgwR3rI4. Since the RPG elements are still in their infancy, that route isn't possible to take in the trailer at this time. Anyway, if you think it's better or worse, let me know.
superNESjoe
Member
That's almost a form of online DRM, something I really dislike.
Yeah, and I don't make online games so it doesn't really work for me. I make single player and coop offline games.
definitely better IMO.
to me with my speakers the mix sounded a bit off, like the announcer is mumbling, but that's the only real crit. logo is awesome.
Thanks Jobbs. I'll plug in a bunch of earphones and speakers and get a better mix out of it.
I can't predict the outcome of any kickstarter, there's no way to ever really know for sure, but I still think the game would benefit from more of a hook. more of a way to describe it than "it's like old beatem ups". That's kind of why I was encouraging more emphasis on RPG elements in the trailer-- Something to distinguish it. What is it all about?
Ask yourself -- Would a website like destructoid or kotaku or RPS want to cover your game, why would they want to, and if they did, what would the headline be?
fengshuifever
Member
Finally got around to uploading the website!
I got fed up with waiting for everyone to get their shit together, so I (maybe too soon) just threw up the site with a cover page.
I'm gonna wait til I have all of the first wave of final art for the artists before launching the site fully, I don't want it to be a skeleton site from the get go.
www.alphawavegames.com
When I launch it properly, I'll probably show screenshots for the first time.
To which then my inner thought process will basically be this.
I got fed up with waiting for everyone to get their shit together, so I (maybe too soon) just threw up the site with a cover page.
I'm gonna wait til I have all of the first wave of final art for the artists before launching the site fully, I don't want it to be a skeleton site from the get go.
www.alphawavegames.com
When I launch it properly, I'll probably show screenshots for the first time.
To which then my inner thought process will basically be this.
I want to hear, anyways. I like people's thoughts even if these are way
philosophical etc.. Especially yours were always an interesting line to
follow. Well, I think this thread could be a more colorful place if people
would also share their minds on things which aren't quite down to earth or can
be applied immediately to games or the universe for that matter. I think, it
should be possible in here to write down some pressing thoughts without being
called by reality right at the spot.
A bit late, but I think the new trailer/cut works better, too! Agreed with Jobbs about the sound mix on headphones, the music drowns out the narrator's voice on my end.
As for remarks/slight criticism: some of the sound effects are a bit weaker than the visual impact they're associated with, too, but I suppose that's not possible to change at this point. I also think the RPG elements would be an excellent selling point, and it's too bad we don't see them more proeminently, even in the form of simple teasers.
That logo at the end, though, is pretty slick! Very impressed by that one :-D
That deserves a congrats of its own :-D
thomasmahler
Moon Studios
Would enjoy if you could reflect on your Early Access experience.
Likewise. Not much data out there about games going from Early Access to full release either, so if there's anything you're willing to share a few weeks down then line I'd be happy to read it! (and probably compare notes, as we've got an announcement coming reeeaaalll soon about Monstrum)
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
Regular post launch content updates is probably the best thing you can do to combat piracy then - "remix" levels / alternate game modes (eg boss rushes) / new playable characters / whatever.
Legit customers will just get an update for free through steam, pirates will have to go hunting for newer uploads, plus it keeps 'buzz' going and keeps you on the recently updated tab on steams front page.
In this noisy market, I guess platform building (the game considered as a
platform which evolves over time - also with the help of its gamers) may hold
the greatest strength against piracy. I think, building a platform improves
the signal-to-noise ratio considerably. Yet I also think it's more time
consuming to do so, initially, than perhaps doing a fire-and-forget game.
Problem being; you may have to shoot many times to eventually hit target
. Keywords; rock, hard, place.
platform which evolves over time - also with the help of its gamers) may hold
the greatest strength against piracy. I think, building a platform improves
the signal-to-noise ratio considerably. Yet I also think it's more time
consuming to do so, initially, than perhaps doing a fire-and-forget game.
Problem being; you may have to shoot many times to eventually hit target
once
I am definitely thinking in "services" for all my game ideas. Core idea behind it is the same: not bullshitting the player, either be free and offer ONE payment option for a full purchase of all future content+online mode, or pay once, get every future update+online until the end of time.
I cannot spend an ounce of energy on pirates or whatever they might do to the code. Trying to safeguard the servers in any way possible will be an undertaking large enough for that matter, anything else that might affect gameplay and fiscal plans differently is just an overkill, imho.
Of course, certain genres are very hard to continously evolve in, like story-based platformers with a proper ending, or adventure games that were not concieved as episodic initially... (hence why I am avoiding these entirely in favor of strategy/turn based rpg/roguelike.)
^ A platform for the sake of having a platform doesn't make sense either,
indeed. Some games better fit having a clear start and ending like you have
said. However, I think the pirates need to be factored in into the game right
from the start. I mean, if you know that so or so many people will pirate your
game, I would question myself how to make use of it. No?
indeed. Some games better fit having a clear start and ending like you have
said. However, I think the pirates need to be factored in into the game right
from the start. I mean, if you know that so or so many people will pirate your
game, I would question myself how to make use of it. No?
superNESjoe
Member
This is exactly what I was thinking for my next game, maybe having new content show up every couple months for a short period of time. I like the idea of what Shovel Knight is doing with Plague of Shadows. Feature a new character but the bosses and levels are just remixed versions of what was already there. The new characters abilities are what the draw is. I might do something like that.
First step: do not think of them as "pirates". You do not know how many legit games they might have. Maybe there are "legit" AAAA-players who wont ever look at indie games, for your perspective, they are less useful as hyping up your game than someone who checks out games from torrent version, then buys them if he/she likes them.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Gee, I sure am in the mood for a strategy RPG based around card combat. Sure would be nice if somebody was cooking up something like that.
For some people, yes. A quick search of Steam turns up 700+ demos already available.
I seem to recall an argument that statistically, demos made sales LESS likely. There may be various arguments about this -- whether it was valid, whether it was because a game just wasn't good enough, whether it was because people got enough satisfaction out of the demo -- but it's at least something to think about.
I am not sure what the good solution is.
For example, if your business model is: provide offline game for free, only charge for online mode+costumes (just an example), then it makes perfect sense to be the one uploading the free version to the torrent sites, and host it yourself as its your own content, and it is one more pathway to ingame purchase of the other contents.
Demos should really be good to even bother, tbh.
Nowadays it is all "free version" versioning where the full game is available, but through limitations (stamina bar... T_T). Meh. I do not like that, but we shall see when reality slaps me in the face with it.
superNESjoe
Member
For the people that are actually doing that? Probably. Let's be real though, a lot of pirates just make excuses because they don't want to straight up say "I didn't want to pay for this, I'm stealing it". That includes the classics "wanted to try it first" and "I wasn't gonna buy it so your not missing a sale anyways".
Look, really, am I thrilled people are playing my game? Yes, I honestly am, but I'm also frustrated that the ratio of purchases to illegal downloads is so low it's not even funny. There's actions I can take to provide incentive to purchasing the game more, and I'm going to do so with my next title. However, the incentive to purchasing it should be that you get to play it. It's so astonishing how many people just don't seem to agree with that.
superNESjoe: I am not sure that it is wise to say "you get to play my game" is enough of an incentive nowadays. It absolutely is not, unless your game is trending.
There are million more games available than time available for anyone, so of course you need to position yourself either in the right way, or with the right extras.
Right way means "provide entertainment for a genre long thought lost" or "have a unique take on something popular", but just "you can play my game" is absolutely not enough, imho. Strictly imho.
There are million more games available than time available for anyone, so of course you need to position yourself either in the right way, or with the right extras.
Right way means "provide entertainment for a genre long thought lost" or "have a unique take on something popular", but just "you can play my game" is absolutely not enough, imho. Strictly imho.
Yeah, I agree with Jobbs too, but can't stretch development out further.
Any specific sound effect? Is it the weapon ones? The attack effects would be difficult, but I should be able to fix the weapon ones easily enough.
Thanks for taking the time to check it out
taku
Member
To be honest, I rarely download demos.
If I'm interested in a game, I'll either buy it immediately or, if I'm hesitant, maybe wait for some kind of sale to happen.
And if I end up not buying a game, I was probably not that interested to play it anyway.
Pirates are hard to figure out though. I wonder how many of them would actually buy the games they're downloading if they were not available through illegal sources.
If I'm interested in a game, I'll either buy it immediately or, if I'm hesitant, maybe wait for some kind of sale to happen.
And if I end up not buying a game, I was probably not that interested to play it anyway.
Pirates are hard to figure out though. I wonder how many of them would actually buy the games they're downloading if they were not available through illegal sources.
superNESjoe
Member
I think you're misunderstanding me. I'm not stating that like "My game is amazing, you get the privilege of playing it if you buy it". I'm saying it like what it is, a product. That's how products work, you get the right to use the product when you pay for it. That's not over-selling my game or making it out to be better than it is, it's simply asking for the rules of a normal marketplace to apply to my companies products, as well as every other companies products.
People act like this rule doesn't apply to digital software though. They act like they can still have and use it guilt-free so long as they provide a decent logical excuse as to why they didn't want to pay for it.
Is there a simple solution? No, at least not one that doesn't hurt your legit customers. Are there benefits to piracy? Sometimes, especially if it provides exposure and positive word of mouth, or perhaps actually do buy the game themselves later. It doesn't change the fact that in the case of myself and many other small devs, the amount of people who pirated their game that was $5 or less could have funded their entire next project and then some. Those people got to use a product for free that they had no consumer rights to use.
Yeah, I am not saying that it was rightful of them to do so.
I am only sharing my point of view in hopes that if, by some positive approach, someone gets to convert 3-5-10% of their pirated version-audience into the legit costumers, that is a big win in my book. Treating all of thems as scum is not helping the situation. I understand your frustration too, it is not an easy issue to deal with.
superNESjoe
Member
That's not what I'm trying to do, and if it is what I'm doing I guess I'll have to work on how I present what I'm saying. Just venting to my peers. This isn't something I would take to Twitter to complain about to my fans or actual customers, just a conversation I'd have among peers.
I agree though, getting piracy conversions is a big win, piracy is going to happen and you can't stop it.
Non-native english here. Sorry if it seemed that I implied that you did it. It could be interpreted it that way, but there was no ill intent in your posts, so no, you definitely did not say that.
The last (bolded by me) sentence is what is really important here, imho. Zen style: we have a problem that we will not solve, and we will not be able to remove it, so we better treat it as optimistically as we can.
Personally, I don't consider them as pirates at all, I'm not thinking in
sociological terms (at least I'm not trying to). They are just there and we
have to deal with them. That's all. Those who go nuts due to the pirates
copying their games, I don't understand. It's extremely important to keep
egocentric thoughts out of any such discussion. If one has a huge problem with
all the pirates, and if ones life depends on any penny gained from a game in
such a market, better change business. I mean, the pirates exist since, well,
forever, and with them the conditions under which every ones game will cross
the market. And these conditions are clear/known right from the start. So
better deal with it rightfully than being blindfolded by a world that never
existed in the first place.
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