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GAF spricht Deutsch, zumindest hier drinnen...

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A

Alpha-Bromega

Member
hei hat jemand von euch Niederländischkenntnis? falls, was hattest du dafür getan? Da Deutsch und Niederländisch ja ganz ähnlich sind, wollte ich wissen, ob es einige bestimmte "tipps" oder Cheats oder was, die Deutschsprachler tun, um das ganz Prozess zu erleichtern.

Klar will ich sie nicht wirklich lernen, sondern sie beiläufig aufnehmen, um ziemlich leicht kommunizieren zu können usw.
 
P

Patrick Bateman

Member
Alpha-Bromega said:
hei hat jemand von euch Niederländischkenntnis? falls, was hattest du dafür getan? Da Deutsch und Niederländisch ja ganz ähnlich sind, wollte ich wissen, ob es einige bestimmte "tipps" oder Cheats oder was, die Deutschsprachler tun, um das ganz Prozess zu erleichtern.

Klar will ich sie nicht wirklich lernen, sondern sie beiläufig aufnehmen, um ziemlich leicht kommunizieren zu können usw.
Click to expand...


As my grandfather always told me: "Dutch is not a language but a sore throat."
 
R

Raist

Banned
S'up deutsch GAF.

Quick question. As far as I know, the correct translation of "I went to Germany with my friends" is "Ich habe mit meinen Freunden nach Deutschland gegangen".

So... mit is a dative preposition, hence the meinen, but friends is Freunde so I guess since it's Freunden, dative applies to it as well.
Question is... why? It's the first time I see a case applied to the noun itself (usually it doesn't, just the article/adjective e.g "mit meinem Vater"). Is it because it ends with an "e" or something? I'm confused.

Tried a google search with terms likes german cases + nouns but always end up on stuff about articles...
 
H

Hammer24

Banned
S´up Raist.
Your translation is wrong. Depending on the context, two versions are possible:
a) Ich bin mit meinen Freunden nach Deutschland gefahren. (not "gegangen", as I presume you didn´t actually walk)
b) Ich ging mit meinen Freunden nach Deutschland. (implicating you came here on a more permanent basis)

Edit: Oh, forgot to answer your question:
"mit" needs the dative, and the dativ is different for singular and plural:
singular - mit meinem Freund
plural - mit meinen Freunden
 
M

Milchjon

Member
Well, I don't know shit about my own grammar, but I guess it has something to do with the plural? "meine Hunde" -> "...mit meinen Hunden"

BTW, it's actually "Ich bin mit meinen Freunden nach Deutschland gegangen".
 
R

Raist

Banned
Hammer24 said:
S´up Raist.
Your translation is wrong. Depending on the context, two versions are possible:
a) Ich bin mit meinen Freunden nach Deutschland gefahren. (not "gegangen", as I presume you didn´t actually walk)
b) Ich ging mit meinen Freunden nach Deutschland. (implicating you came here on a more permanent basis)

Edit: Oh, forgot to answer your question:
"mit" needs the dative, and the dativ is different for singular and plural:
singular - mit meinem Freund
plural - mit meinen Freunden
Click to expand...

I thought "walking" would need like "zu Fuß". If you say "I'm going to Germany" you say "Ich gehe nach Deutschland", right? As in you're going there generally, not mentioning the means of transport.

But anyway, I know the masculine/neutral/feminine/neutral endings for dative, like for the articles, I was just wondering why it applies to the noun as well (not just the article) in the case of Freunde since no distinction is made for nouns in singular.


Milchjon: Ah, true, just remembered it's the same as in French, thanks :p
 
H

Hammer24

Banned
Raist said:
I thought "walking" would need like "zu Fuß". If you say "I'm going to Germany" you say "Ich gehe nach Deutschland", right? As in you're going there generally, not mentioning the means of transport.
Click to expand...

In this example you gave its not about the means of transport, but in this case it implies either "zu Fuß" or that you go there on a more permanent basis, f.i. not just on vacation.

But anyway, I know the masculine/neutral/feminine/neutral endings for dative, like for the articles, I was just wondering why it applies to the noun as well (not just the article) in the case of Freunde since no distinction is made for nouns in singular.
Click to expand...

It always applies to the noun as well, its just that sometimes the ending for the noun is that it has no ending. (it had one for all nouns in old german, but doesn´t anymore).
 
R

Raist

Banned
Hammer24 said:
It always applies to the noun as well, its just that sometimes the ending for the noun is that it has no ending. (it had one for all nouns in old german, but doesn´t anymore).
Click to expand...

No ending? Not quite sure what you mean :X

So you wouldn't say mit meiner Tascher, right? So is that because plural is adding something to the noun, then the case applies to that addition, or something?
 
H

Hammer24

Banned
You got it.
singular - meine Tasche / mit meiner Tasche
plural - meine Taschen / mit meinen Taschen

A (bad) example at what I was getting at:
out of bed
aus dem Bett
old german form: aus dem Bette
 
A

Alpha-Bromega

Member
denn Fälle erlaubt nen besseren Grad von Genaueigkeit in der Sprache...


also hei Jungs, ich wollte mich bei euch dafür bedanken, dass ihr mir immer halft. Heute wurde ich in die allerhöchste Deutschniveau gewählt, irgendwie (zugegeben war's ne Menge Fleiß und Schweiß auch) bin ich zu C1 gestiegen. Zum groß Teil ist's dank euch, denn euere Englischfähigkeiten waren um einiges besser als die mehrheit die Studierenden, die ich kennengelernt hab, und somit konntet ihr mir dabei immer helfen, wenn es um eine Feinheit ging oder was.

vornehmlich hilfen mir der deutsche Rapps, mich zu verbessern. ich studierte jeder Strophe an und noch besser hab ich Spaß dabei.
 
Z

Zaraki_Kenpachi

Member
Assassin's Creed on PC is so good. I can play it in German and then go back to the main screen and switch to english and replay the memory to listen to the scenes in english if I didn't understand it well enough. So awesome. :D It just throws me off when they speak italian for the first sentence or so of introductions and then switch to german.
 
M

meadowrag

Banned
Quick question, this is probably really basic but..

Raist said:
I thought "walking" would need like "zu Fuß". If you say "I'm going to Germany" you say "Ich gehe nach Deutschland", right? As in you're going there generally, not mentioning the means of transport.
Click to expand...

"nach" means "after" right?

So if you say "Ich gehe nach Deutschland" aren't you saying "I'm going after Germany"?

Why wouldn't it be "Ich gehe zu Deutschland" ?
 
G

Glass Rebel

Member
meadowrag said:
Quick question, this is probably really basic but..



"nach" means "after" right?

So if you say "Ich gehe nach Deutschland" aren't you saying "I'm going after Germany"?

Why wouldn't it be "Ich gehe zu Deutschland" ?
Click to expand...

"zu", "zur" or "zum" is mostly used for people or locations like buildings etc. "nach" is used for countries and cities.

I'm going to my friend - Ich gehe zu meinem Freund

I'm going to the library - Ich gehe zur Bibliothek

I'm going to New York - Ich gehe nach New York

Of course "nach" can be translated in two ways, the second being when you're referring to time. It can be confusing for non-natives I guess:

I'm going to Australia after my graduation - Ich gehe nach meinem Abschluss nach Australien


Edit: made some corrections
 
M

Milchjon

Member
meadowrag said:
Quick question, this is probably really basic but..



"nach" means "after" right?

So if you say "Ich gehe nach Deutschland" aren't you saying "I'm going after Germany"?

Why wouldn't it be "Ich gehe zu Deutschland" ?
Click to expand...

I don't really know the rules, but in the case of countries, cities etc. it's "nach". It's also "nach hause".

At the same time it's "zur Schule", "zur Post", "zu Frank" and so on, so it is pretty confusing. I really couldn't tell you why, though. Maybe one of the grammar wizards in here can help you (and me) out.
 
A

Alpha-Bromega

Member
basically just take it as it is; nach is equivalent to "to" when its clearly towards certain types of locations bzw. Countries without articles (nach Deutschland aber in die Turkei).

It's really hard to somehow mix up nach as "after" and nach as a preposition, in any case you're thinking eher "nachher" or "nachdem"

zu goes with institutions and such ie. ich gehe zur Uni, ich gehe zum Krankenhaus

auf goes with a few very specific locations; Bank, Post, other ones but other than that you'd be pretty comical to say 'ich bin aufm Zug' (you're literally upon the train)

in usually means to Inside unless it's countries with articles; ich gehe in die Schweiz.


and with auf and in one must consider if one is going to the place, or is already there i.e. Ich bin auf der Bank, ich bin in der Schweiz. One takes the dativ case when one remains within.

Ich bin in der Stadt
Ich gehe in die Stadt
 
F

Fritz

Member
meadowrag said:
Quick question, this is probably really basic but..



"nach" means "after" right?

So if you say "Ich gehe nach Deutschland" aren't you saying "I'm going after Germany"?

Why wouldn't it be "Ich gehe zu Deutschland" ?
Click to expand...

That reminds me of that old "zu Aldi" joke.
 
R

Raist

Banned
Glass Rebel said:
"zu", "zur" or "zum" is mostly used for people or locations like buildings etc. "nach" is used for countries and cities.

I'm going to my friend - Ich gehe zu meinem Freund

I'm going to the library - Ich gehe zur Bibliothek

I'm going to New York - Ich gehe nach New York

Of course "nach" can be translated in two ways, the second being when you're referring to time. It can be confusing for non-natives I guess:

I'm going to Australia after my graduation - Ich gehe nach meinem Abschluss nach Australien


Edit: made some corrections
Click to expand...

Unless you're talking about home, then the whole thing goes to shit :p
Ich gehe nach Hause.
Ich bin zu Hause.

Not to mention some particular cases like Ich gehe ins Kino.

I think the german language was created by sadistic people :(
 
N

NeoRausch

Member
Raist said:
Unless you're talking about home, then the whole thing goes to shit :p
Ich gehe nach Hause.
Ich bin zu Hause.

Not to mention some particular cases like Ich gehe ins Kino.

I think the german language was created by sadistic people :(
Click to expand...

first time in this thread but you know what?

jetzt verstehe ich grade warum es: "Deutsche Sprache, schwere Spreche" heißt.
if i didn't grow up with this language.... it's like latin.
 
A

Az

Member
Lived in Berlin for 5 years. Kind of miss the city, an wondering if its still one big Baustelle.

Compared here to Florida I miss Germany's nature roads. Perfect for a bike ride.
 
N

NeoRausch

Member
TheAzRim said:
Lived in Berlin for 5 years. Kind of miss the city, an wondering if its still one big Baustelle.

Compared here to Florida I miss Germany's nature roads. Perfect for a bike ride.
Click to expand...

it's not THAT BAD anymore. visit Düsseldorf or Cologne for more exciting Baustellen today.
 
C

Cereal KiIIer

Member
HHYtS.png
 
B

Bjoern the Smexy

Member
I never actually realised how complicated it is to explain to someone the whole ordeal with "nach", "zu", "in" and "auf".

But yeah, most people already said it. With locations and (most of the) countries you say "nach Stuttgart/Deutschland/etc.".
With persons and things like super markets you use "zu Hans/zum Media Markt/zur Haltestelle/etc.".
For some other locations like museums and cinemas you use "ins Museum/ins Kino/etc.".

Never should you use "bei" when saying that you go somewhere.
 
M

meadowrag

Banned
weird said:
first time in this thread but you know what?

jetzt verstehe ich grade warum es: "Deutsche Sprache, schwere Spreche" heißt.
if i didn't grow up with this language.... it's like latin.
Click to expand...

One more thing - I've heard word order in German is less strict than in English.

In your German sentence, why is it arranged like it is?

Could you have said "Ich jetzt verstehe grade warum es heisst:..."

Sorry if these questions are too basic, I'm been mostly teaching myself raw vocabulary and trying to pick up grammar tips here and there.

Another question.
Since you have to alter the verbs anyways, can you drop the pronouns like they do in Spanish?

Like instead of saying "Ich verstehe" is it ok to just say "Verstehe" ?

Cereal Killer said:
IMG
Click to expand...

Kugelschreiber?
The world I learned for pen was "der Stift" =/
 
N

NeoRausch

Member
meadowrag said:
One more thing - I've heard word order in German is less strict than in English.

In your German sentence, why is it arranged like it is?

Could you have said "Ich jetzt verstehe grade warum es heisst:..."

Sorry if these questions are too basic, I'm been mostly teaching myself raw vocabulary and trying to pick up grammar tips here and there.

Another question.
Since you have to alter the verbs anyways, can you drop the pronouns like they do in Spanish?

Like instead of saying "Ich verstehe" is it ok to just say "Verstehe" ?
Click to expand...

1. That one would be: "Ich verstehe jetzt grade warum es heisst..." you can't cange that part or it would be typical forgein.

2. yeah that would be ok.
"der kölner dom ist links und dann gradeaus", " verstehe!"
or ( to get to you first question)
"ich verstehe warum es heisst:..."



EDIT:

"Kugelschreiber" is specific. "Stift" - any kind of pen; "kugelschreiber" - "ball point pen", "ball pen" or (as i just learned) "biro" (?)
 
F

Fritz

Member
TheAzRim said:
Lived in Berlin for 5 years. Kind of miss the city, an wondering if its still one big Baustelle.

Compared here to Florida I miss Germany's nature roads. Perfect for a bike ride.
Click to expand...

Don't listen to the others. At least Mitte is still one big construction side these days. Housing market is booming (unfortunately) and they raise new houses everywhere and fill every single WWII gap. Unter den Linden won't be seen without constructions till 2024 I am afraid. Not even Potsdamer Platz ist finished yet. And don't get me started on the area around the new main station formerly Lerther Bahnhof. It's ridiculous.
 
N

NeoRausch

Member
Fritz said:
Don't listen to the others. At least Mitte is still one big construction side these days. Housing market is booming (unfortunately) and they raise new houses everywhere and fill every single WWII gap. Unter den Linden won't be seen without constructions till 2024 I am afraid. Not even Potsdamer Platz ist finished yet. And don't get me started on the area around the new main station formerly Lerther Bahnhof. It's ridiculous.
Click to expand...

really, that bad? german press got out of touch with that story (uh boy, i wonder why!)
they are still going THAT strong up there? :( is there on last historical place intact today? (beside the famous ones)
 
F

Fritz

Member
weird said:
really, that bad? german press got out of touch with that story (uh boy, i wonder why!)
they are still going THAT strong up there? :( is there on last historical place intact today? (beside the famous ones)
Click to expand...

Yes absolutely. I've been living here for 8 years now and Mitte has gotten "worse" imo. It's mainly the poular living areas around Rosenthaler Platz and Hackescher Markt that have seen a major boom. It was kinda inevitable and I completely approve.

Unter den Linden is just a constant work in progress I think. It's like they start on one side and by the time they've reached the other end they start over new. Right now they are working on the Staatsoper, the Staatsbibliothek and are building a complete new Subway Line underneath the street with a major station on the Unter den Linden/Friedrichstrassen crossing. Then they will have the major projekt that is the Stadtschloss and there are a few eyesores left that have to be tackled.

Also they are still constructing the area surrounding the Neue Museum on the museum island.

Potsdamer Platz is still not done but I think they've run out of investors.

The Invalidenstrasse from Nordbahnhof to Hauptbahnhof is completely remodelled including tracks for the Tram.

That's just the stuff from the top of my head. But it's great actually. "Geschichte wird gemacht, es geht voran" after all.
 
N

NeoRausch

Member
Fritz said:
Yes absolutely. I've been living here for 8 years now and Mitte has gotten "worse" imo. It's mainly the poular living areas around Rosenthaler Platz and Hackescher Markt that have seen a major boom. It was kinda inevitable and I completely approve.

Unter den Linden is just a constant work in progress I think. It's like they start on one side and by the time they've reached the other end they start over new. Right now they are working on the Staatsoper, the Staatsbibliothek and are building a complete new Subway Line underneath the street with a major station on the Unter den Linden/Friedrichstrassen crossing. Then they will have the major projekt that is the Stadtschloss and there are a few eyesores left that have to be tackled.

Also they are still constructing the area surrounding the Neue Museum on the museum island.

Potsdamer Platz is still not done but I think they've run out of investors.

The Invalidenstrasse from Nordbahnhof to Hauptbahnhof is completely remodelled including tracks for the Tram.

That's just the stuff from the top of my head. But it's great actually. "Geschichte wird gemacht, es geht voran" after all.
Click to expand...
Ugh, reminds me pretty strong of düsseldorf. We are getting a new subway and a new...what do you call it.....plaza?... You know... Near to the "Kö". I think you can guess what that means.

good thing i have no car! :D
 
R

Raist

Banned
meadowrag said:
One more thing - I've heard word order in German is less strict than in English.
Click to expand...

And that's why they have these annoying cases :p
But apparently where you put stuff in a sentence can slightly change the meaning (as in putting more emphasis on something for instance).

Could you have said "Ich jetzt verstehe grade warum es heisst:..."
Click to expand...

Ich verstehe jetzt. Never separate the subject and the verb.

edit: beaten
 
A

Az

Member
Fritz said:
Don't listen to the others. At least Mitte is still one big construction side these days. Housing market is booming (unfortunately) and they raise new houses everywhere and fill every single WWII gap. Unter den Linden won't be seen without constructions till 2024 I am afraid. Not even Potsdamer Platz ist finished yet. And don't get me started on the area around the new main station formerly Lerther Bahnhof. It's ridiculous.
Click to expand...

Even with all that I still have a lot of love for Berlin. I was there age 10-15, so first girlfiends, first interest in music, streetball etc were all there. Can't wait to go back some day.
 
G

Glass Rebel

Member
Raist said:
Unless you're talking about home, then the whole thing goes to shit :p
Ich gehe nach Hause.
Ich bin zu Hause.

Not to mention some particular cases like Ich gehe ins Kino.

I think the german language was created by sadistic people :(
Click to expand...

Fuck homes and fuck cinemas!

You're right though. Even as a native speaker it's easy to forget these exceptions *sigh*
 
A

Alpha-Bromega

Member
yea Meadowrag the reason for these complicated endings and cases is that word order gets freed up a great deal, because it's the ending designations and not word order that determines the base meaning like in english. German word order is fundamentally anchored by the placement of the verb. When reading something i sometimes like get a kick out of how a sentence can be structured, and it makes me feel good that i see why the writer was able to structure the sentence like that because the case of certain words made it obvious as to their role, and thus could be thrown around.

Allerdings that's not to say that there isn't an expected word order, es ist etwa wie; sub, verb , dat ob, time, akk ob, manner, reason


also so neuerdings hab ich gelernt, dass das Verb "wechseln" anstatt "schalten" geeignet ist, um die Idee, ein Übungsgerät mit jdm zu wechseln, auszudrücken. Manche verwirrte Gesichte entstanden bevor ich das herausgekriegt hatte :lol
 
F

Fritz

Member
Alpha-Bromega said:
yea Meadowrag the reason for these complicated endings and cases is that word order gets freed up a great deal, because it's the ending designations and not word order that determines the base meaning like in english. German word order is fundamentally anchored by the placement of the verb. When reading something i sometimes like get a kick out of how a sentence can be structured, and it makes me feel good that i see why the writer was able to structure the sentence like that because the case of certain words made it obvious as to their role, and thus could be thrown around.

Allerdings that's not to say that there isn't an expected word order, es ist etwa wie; sub, verb , dat ob, time, akk ob, manner, reason


also so neuerdings hab ich gelernt, dass das Verb "wechseln" anstatt "schalten" geeignet ist, um die Idee, ein Übungsgerät mit jdm zu wechseln, auszudrücken. Manche verwirrte Gesichte entstanden bevor ich das herausgekriegt hatte :lol
Click to expand...

Do you mean at the gym? hehe.



These differences in structure are so awesome yet it's kinda devastating. Like,I can read Poe in it's original language and it's ten times more awesome. On the other hand I can read as many Checkov as I want in German and I'll probably never get the full picture as intended by the author. :(
 
C

Castor Krieg

Banned
Wass soll Ich jetzt tun? Deutsch einfach sprechen, oder...

Kennen Sie Internetseiten, dass Ich benutzen kann, wenn Ich ins Arbeit bin? Zum Beispiel, zu viel Zeit haben, und Ich moechte am bishen Deutsch lernen?
 
A

Alpha-Bromega

Member
Castor Krieg said:
Wass soll Ich jetzt tun? Deutsch einfach sprechen, oder...

Kennen Sie Internetseiten, dass Ich benutzen kann, wenn Ich ins Arbeit bin? Zum Beispiel, zu viel Zeit haben, und Ich moechte am bishen Deutsch lernen?
Click to expand...

zumindest hör jederzeit zu Nachrichten oder Musik zu. Wenn du willst und je nach der Akzent du willst, kann ich dir ein Paar empfehlen

haha ja Fritz ich meine zur Turnhalle, ganz peinlich war's lol


also so es ist bisher etwa 2 Wochen gewesen, seit meinem Anfang beim Hotel. Aller Anfang ist schwer, gelinde gesagt :lol Aber jetzt hab ich es fast drauf, bin nun ne echte Putzfrau loolololool


und was denkt ihr über den Postillon? http://www.der-postillon.com/
echt lustig find ich ihn
 
B

Bjoern the Smexy

Member
Castor Krieg said:
Wass soll Ich jetzt tun? Deutsch einfach sprechen, oder...

Kennen Sie Internetseiten, dass Ich benutzen kann, wenn Ich ins Arbeit bin? Zum Beispiel, zu viel Zeit haben, und Ich moechte am bishen Deutsch lernen?
Click to expand...

Wie Alpha-Bromega schon gesagt hat, ist es sehr hilfreich, deutsche Nachrichten zu hören oder zu lesen oder deutsche Lieder zu hören.
Das hat mir damals zumindest geholfen, mein Englisch zu verbessern (mit englischen Nachrichten und Liedern natürlich ;) )
Du könntest auch versuchen (falls du die Möglichkeit hast), Filme auf deutsch anzuschauen oder Videospiele auf deutsch zu spielen (am besten mit Untertiteln), besonders wenn du die Texte auf Englisch (oder deiner Muttersprache) schon relativ gut kennst. Das wäre zumindest eine Empfehlung von mir ;)
 
C

Castor Krieg

Banned


Vielen Dank fuer die gute Ideen. Ich kann nicht Nachrichten in Arbeit hoeren, aber Zeit oder Welt lesen, dass ist aber kein Problem.

Na klar, Ich muss videospielen auf Deutsch spielen, dass is auch sehr einfach, weil Ich eiin Steam-benutzer bin. Ich muss leder nicht vergessen, Deutsch asl Spielsprache zu waehlen...




Yes, I know my grammar is terrible. This stuff is more difficult than Chinese, which I'm also learning atm.
 
B

Bjoern the Smexy

Member
Castor Krieg said:
Vielen Dank fuer die gute Ideen. Ich kann nicht Nachrichten in Arbeit hoeren, aber Zeit oder Welt lesen, dass ist aber kein Problem.

Na klar, Ich muss videospielen auf Deutsch spielen, dass is auch sehr einfach, weil Ich eiin Steam-benutzer bin. Ich muss leder nicht vergessen, Deutsch asl Spielsprache zu waehlen...




Yes, I know my grammar is terrible. This stuff is more difficult than Chinese, which I'm also learning atm.
Click to expand...

Your grammar is not that bad. I had to talk to people who were FAR worse at speaking German than you are at writing it.
Also somehow I doubt that Chinese is an easier language to learn than German...

EDIT: Oh and your usage of "muss" is a bit off. "muss" is the same as "must" or "need to". The word you are looking for is "sollte" in the first case (Ich sollte Videospiele auf Deutsch spielen) and "darf" in the second case (Ich darf leider nicht vergessen,...).
But aside from that it's pretty good. :)
 
C

Castor Krieg

Banned
Thank you for "muss" vs" sollen", sometimes when you learned some things, and are old, it's difficult to change. I will make an effort to speak better. Thanks!Will check previous pages as well, I'm sure there is a good discussion there.
 
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