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[Clipper]

Clipper,

I have 2 questions for you if you get a moment:

1. Is there a way to change the default settings for ripping my games to my NTFS drive? Currently they are ripping as: My Drive/wbfs/GAMEID_TITLE/GAMEID.iso and I would like them to rip as My Drive/wbfs/TITLE [GAMEID].iso. I know there are options that allow this to be done for FAT drives, but is it possible for NTFS?

2. Is there a way to not have the GAMEID show up at all in the .iso name, or is this needed for the loader?

1. The same option controls the naming scheme for both .wbfs and .iso files. It's the fat_install_dir/fs_install_layout option (it has two names for backwards compatibility, use either).

# fat_install_dir = 0 /wbfs/GAMEID.wbfs
# fat_install_dir = 1 /wbfs/GAMEID_TITLE/GAMEID.wbfs
# fat_install_dir = 2 /wbfs/TITLE [GAMEID]/GAMEID.wbfs
# fat_install_dir = 3 /wbfs/TITLE [GAMEID].wbfs

2. It's required.

 

[RavenHawk]

1. The same option controls the naming scheme for both .wbfs and .iso files. It's the fat_install_dir/fs_install_layout option (it has two names for backwards compatibility, use either).

# fat_install_dir = 0 /wbfs/GAMEID.wbfs
# fat_install_dir = 1 /wbfs/GAMEID_TITLE/GAMEID.wbfs
# fat_install_dir = 2 /wbfs/TITLE [GAMEID]/GAMEID.wbfs
# fat_install_dir = 3 /wbfs/TITLE [GAMEID].wbfs

2. It's required.

Thanks for the help and clarification.

 

[Lost Fragment]

So did anyone ever figure out how to get Metroid Prime Trilogy working like it should when run off a USB drive? Kind of agitates my OCD knowing that it's the only game in my collection that doesn't work perfectly unless I play off the disc.

 

[Clipper]

So did anyone ever figure out how to get Metroid Prime Trilogy working like it should when run off a USB drive? Kind of agitates my OCD knowing that it's the only game in my collection that doesn't work perfectly unless I play off the disc.

Using a combination of alt dols and cheats, it can be done in a way. The IOS reload that occurs in games like this is just too hard to get around.

 

[alf717]

It seems that Riivolution 1.0.3 is asking me to downgrade IOS37 in order to continue. I'm guessing I should avoiding doing that. This started to happen now that I am on the 4.3+ update.

 

[Warren Ellis]

i need help gaf:

i have a wii with a 3.1e firmware and i want to install the homebrew channel. The problem is:

i have only 4 gb sdhc cards.. so i can't install the homebrew channel without upgrading to 4.3, right ?

and if i updgrade to 4.3, i can only install the homebrew channel using indiana jones or smash brosh ? (usa only) right ?

thanks

 

[Clipper]

i need help gaf:

i have a wii with a 3.1e firmware and i want to install the homebrew channel. The problem is:

i have only 4 gb sdhc cards.. so i can't install the homebrew channel without upgrading to 4.3, right ?

and if i updgrade to 4.3, i can only install the homebrew channel using indiana jones or smash brosh ? (usa only) right ?

thanks

You can't use an SDHC with SSBB. It might possibly work with Lego Indiana Jones, but I don't think so. What you need to do is either buy an SD card or upgrade to 4.1 or 4.2 with NSMB or SMG 2 (or several other relevant games that launched after NSMB but before Other M).

 

[Futureman]

i need help gaf:

i have a wii with a 3.1e firmware and i want to install the homebrew channel. The problem is:

i have only 4 gb sdhc cards.. so i can't install the homebrew channel without upgrading to 4.3, right ?

and if i updgrade to 4.3, i can only install the homebrew channel using indiana jones or smash brosh ? (usa only) right ?

thanks

Why not just leave the firmware as is a get a 2 GB SD card for like $10?

 

[alf717]

Man talk about luck! I was about to pull the trigger on adding this softmod to my Wii last night but chicken out. :lol (I have over $800 is VC and Wiiware titles) This afternoon my neighbor stopped by and dropped off a Wii he found while working. The system was broken (disc drive) so I called up Nintendo and the rep I got was awesome. She told me to send in the Wii and the discs the console scratched up! Best of all this is going to all happen free of charge. I love Nintendo repair service this is the second console I had to send in and they were really nice the first time fixing my GPU issue.

 

[MoogPaul]

I keep getting read errors while trying to install Other M in USB Loader. My damn Wii laser is so finicky it can't make it through to 100% on a dual-layered disc. Is there a way I can continue to installation of a game that stopped around 50% or maybe rip it on my computer some how and transfer it to my usb hard drive from there?

Also, is there a way to set the usb loader to see the saves I had from when I was playing them through either the disc channel or gecko?

 

[Clipper]

I keep getting read errors while trying to install Other M in USB Loader. My damn Wii laser is so finicky it can't make it through to 100% on a dual-layered disc. Is there a way I can continue to installation of a game that stopped around 50% or maybe rip it on my computer some how and transfer it to my usb hard drive from there?

Also, is there a way to set the usb loader to see the saves I had from when I was playing them through either the disc channel or gecko?

There's only ever one set of saves on your Wii. All the play methods will use the same set.

There is an alternative dumping app on the Wii called SuperDump, but it might take a little more work to set up. I have no clue if it handles read errors differently or not. I've never used it and don't plan to, so I can't help with it, unfortunately.

It used to be the case that you could only dump games on the PC using a very specific set of LG DVD-ROM drives which went out of production a while ago. You'll have to research that info to find out more.

 

[MoogPaul]

There's only ever one set of saves on your Wii. All the play methods will use the same set.

Mmmm. When I start up Sin and Punishment 2 through the loader, it's not seeing my previous save for whatever reason.

 

[Clipper]

Mmmm. When I start up Sin and Punishment 2 through the loader, it's not seeing my previous save for whatever reason.

You ripped the game from the disc? If not, are you sure you got the right region? And you are talking about Cfg as the loader, right?

 

[MoogPaul]

You ripped the game from the disc? If not, are you sure you got the right region? And you are talking about Cfg as the loader, right?

yes to all of those. Strangest thing.
Other M is also just being very strange. I actually have two copies currently through an Amazon mess up (have yet to return one) and they both stop ripping at 51.96%. I've tried the lens cleaning kit and the game runs fine through gecko.

 

[Clipper]

yes to all of those. Strangest thing.
Other M is also just being very strange. I actually have two copies currently through an Amazon mess up (have yet to return one) and they both stop ripping at 51.96%. I've tried the lens cleaning kit and the game runs fine through gecko.

Only other thing I can think of is that you might not be using a good revision of IOS249. Rev 20 with any base should be fine, but feel free to try other bases or IOS222 to rip the disc instead. You change that by altering the ios=222-mload,223-mload,247,248,249,250 option in config.txt.

 

[MoogPaul]

Only other thing I can think of is that you might not be using a good revision of IOS249. Rev 20 with any base should be fine, but feel free to try other bases or IOS222 to rip the disc instead. You change that by altering the ios=222-mload,223-mload,247,248,249,250 option in config.txt.

I'm using rev20b. The only thing I can think of is maybe I formatted the drive incorrectly? The game stops ripping the disc at 51.96% which is about 4 gigs I believe. Is there something I could have done that would have prevented file sizes from being greater than 4gigs?

 

[Clipper]

I'm using rev20b. The only thing I can think of is maybe I formatted the drive incorrectly? The game stops ripping the disc at 51.96% which is about 4 gigs I believe. Is there something I could have done that would have prevented file sizes from being greater than 4gigs?

You can try setting fat_split_size=2, but I doubt that will help. The point is more likely to be the start of the second layer. Do you have Brawl or MPT? Try ripping those again.

Also, try installing rev20 as other bases in other slots, e.g., 248 as 38, 247 as 37 and 250 as 57. Also try Hermes' IOS.

 

[Yazan]

Trying to get my wii to play dvd-films. But doesn't really work, I have everything installed (mplayer, etc). Is there anything missing?

Also, trying to install SMG2 through the usb loader. But it freezes in the middle of the installation. Any idea why?

 

[Clipper]

Trying to get my wii to play dvd-films. But doesn't really work, I have everything installed (mplayer, etc). Is there anything missing?

Also, trying to install SMG2 through the usb loader. But it freezes in the middle of the installation. Any idea why?

Try cleaning the SMG2 disc and make sure you have everything up to date according to the GWHT.

As for MPlayer, new Wiis have DVD drives that won't let you read backup discs. I don't know if that covers standard DVD discs too.

 

[Datschge]

Look like I'm having my first issue...

Firmware version is 4.1E. I've got two USB LAN adapters, the first stopped working but still displayed the MAC address in the respective place in the Wii setting before I removed it. Since then I've updated to cIOS 249 v20 and cIOS 236 v4 (both successfully as they work fine where used). I also tried to update to Wii Shop v20, DOP-Shop gives a bad hash error while DOP-Mii seemed to install it successful, but the resulting Wii Shop is inaccessible as it return straight back to the Wii Menu (with that fading black channels animation in between). Today I received my new USB LAN adapter, and upon connecting it and the old one it turns out neither adapter seems to get detected anymore (the LAN MAC address stays grayed out).

May these be related or am I just having bad luck?

 

[Clipper]

Look like I'm having my first issue...

Firmware version is 4.1E. I've got two USB LAN adapters, the first stopped working but still displayed the MAC address in the respective place in the Wii setting before I removed it. Since then I've updated to cIOS 249 v20 and cIOS 236 v4 (both successfully as they work fine where used). I also tried to update to Wii Shop v20, DOP-Shop gives a bad hash error while DOP-Mii seemed to install it successful, but the resulting Wii Shop is inaccessible as it return straight back to the Wii Menu (with that fading black channels animation in between). Today I received my new USB LAN adapter, and upon connecting it and the old one it turns out neither adapter seems to get detected anymore (the LAN MAC address stays grayed out).

May these be related or am I just having bad luck?

Make sure you installed the IOS that was mentioned at the same time as the Wii Shop.

The homebrew stuff should not have affected the LAN adapters, so that's probably something else (but I don't know what).

 

[Choppasmith]

Okay I need some clarification. It's been a while since I've updated anything on my Wii. I've got my copy of Metroid Other M, and figured this would be a good time to update all the cutsom IOSes and things (especially hearing about that glitch from earlier in this thread.

I know I've followed the tutorial before, and I should have more than one custom IOS like Hermes'. On the Config Loader, it says I'm sporting IOS 249 Rev 17. I want to update it to Rev 20, but it's talking about installing IOS 236 which I'm not sure I have or not. What's the safe thing to do here?

 

[Clipper]

Okay I need some clarification. It's been a while since I've updated anything on my Wii. I've got my copy of Metroid Other M, and figured this would be a good time to update all the cutsom IOSes and things (especially hearing about that glitch from earlier in this thread.

I know I've followed the tutorial before, and I should have more than one custom IOS like Hermes'. On the Config Loader, it says I'm sporting IOS 249 Rev 17. I want to update it to Rev 20, but it's talking about installing IOS 236 which I'm not sure I have or not. What's the safe thing to do here?

Install IOS236.

All steps in the tutorial can be performed again, treated as if you had never done them before if you are really worried.

 

[Choppasmith]

Okay another question out of curiosity. I noticed in my apps folder i already have an IOS249 folder and app. If it downloads the update from the internet, does that mean I don't have to replace the boot.dol, and I just have to run the app if an update is released?

 

[Clipper]

Okay another question out of curiosity. I noticed in my apps folder i already have an IOS249 folder and app. If it downloads the update from the internet, does that mean I don't have to replace the boot.dol, and I just have to run the app if an update is released?

It doesn't download the update from the Internet. It downloads (from Nintendo's server) the IOS that it is going to modify and then install onto your Wii in the alternate slot. Thus, you definitely do need to change the .dol.

 

[Choppasmith]

Uh oh. Looks like I might have a problem.

Before I installed the new IOSes I updated to the latest version of Configurable. I installed the IOSes afterward no problem. Following it step by step. I then loaded up Config and it freezes at the logo screen. On the bottom right it says v60 249 [FRAG]. What did I do wrong?

EDIT: NVM, after restarting and loading it from the Forwarder channel I installed a long time ago, it seems to be running fine.

 

[NewFresh]

Just a quick question. Back whenever channels were first being made I used to install them and delete them from the wii system memory without uninstalling the .wad. Is there a way to delete those channels without the respective wads?

 

[Clipper]

Just a quick question. Back whenever channels were first being made I used to install them and delete them from the wii system memory without uninstalling the .wad. Is there a way to delete those channels without the respective wads?

Use AnyTitle Deleter Mod.

You can get a proper link to the app from the website, here.

 

[Datschge]

Make sure you installed the IOS that was mentioned at the same time as the Wii Shop.

The homebrew stuff should not have affected the LAN adapters, so that's probably something else (but I don't know what).

Ok, Wii Shop works with IOS56 v5662 (wiki mentions v5661 which I had before).

The LAN adapter issue is seriously funky though, it turned out that the new one actually works (had to turn off MAC filtering in my router) but it broadcasts no MAC/ARP info on LAN at all. I haven't seen something like that in any network unit ever before...

 

[Baron Aloha]

Question...

Is there a way to change the title (of a game) that gets displayed in Configurable USB Loader?

Reason I ask is because some of my games have super long titles that don't even fit, i.e. "Dragon Quest Swords: The Masked Queen and the Tower of Mirrors". I'd like to change this to just "Dragon Quest Swords".

 

[Clipper]

Question...

Is there a way to change the title (of a game) that gets displayed in Configurable USB Loader?

Reason I ask is because some of my games have super long titles that don't even fit, i.e. "Dragon Quest Swords: The Masked Queen and the Tower of Mirrors". I'd like to change this to just "Dragon Quest Swords".

Yep. Just have a titles.txt or custom-titles.txt file in your Cfg base directory and use lines like:
RSPP01 = Wii Sports

 

[Baron Aloha]

Yep. Just have a titles.txt or custom-titles.txt file in your Cfg base directory and use lines like:
RSPP01 = Wii Sports

Cool. Thanks.

 

[Stumpokapow]

What's the buzz on the GameCube stuff that was being worked on a while ago? Almost ready?

I'm asking because I've got GameCube games that I want to play, but no GCN memory card, no WaveBird, and a Wii setup that doesn't accommodate corded controllers.

 

[Clipper]

What's the buzz on the GameCube stuff that was being worked on a while ago? Almost ready?

I'm asking because I've got GameCube games that I want to play, but no GCN memory card, no WaveBird, and a Wii setup that doesn't accommodate corded controllers.

I haven't seen any new news, but I believe it's still on track. It won't solve any of your problems, though. You'll still need all the GameCube accessories.

 

[Mejilan]

Wasn't Dios Mios supposed to support virtual memory cards and the Classic Controller?

 

[Futureman]

So get MPlayerWii to play DVDs?

I bought my Wii used off a guy, so I think it's an older system. Newer systems can't read DVDs even with MPlayerWii??

edit: Nevermind, just say this:

"Note: MPlayerWii does not play dvd videos only MPlayer TT made by Team Twiizers will do this!"

So I guess just use MPlayer TT and I should be good watching store bought DVDs?

 

[Dogbert8]

I'm having an odd problem with my Wii. I've been playing Twilight Princess over the last week, and the controls have been less than perfect. Basically, sometimes they just intermittently cut out for half a second. Despite this, the Wii never thinks the connection is lost (i.e. no warning about no remote in sync). First I thought it was my Nunchuk, then maybe my Remote once I realized it was more than just the Nunchuk. Eventually I got out the TP disc and tried playing it directly off the disc, and the problem disappeared, which leaves USB loading as the culprit.

As far as I know, this is not happening with other games. I just finished Other M without noticing any problem, and tested SMG2 after I noticed the problem just to be extra sure (back when I thought it was the stick that was the problem). I even tried deleting TP from my hard drive and reinstalling, but no dice. It can't be my disc because the disc itself works fine.

I can keep running off the disc, but I really like USB loading and don't want to give it up.

I'm using IOS249 (Rev 20b, merged with IOS56) and CFG 58a. Edit: Just to be sure, I updated to CFG v60 and still get the same problem.

Any ideas?

Update: I have switched back to cIOS222 after much trouble reinstalling it (damn you, stubs!), and the problem is no longer present. I'd still like to know what's causing it, as cIOS249 is still under development and I may want/need to switch back to it at some point...

 

[Fodder76]

Hey guys,

Sorry to skip all that has been written before and jump straight to this, but I didn't see my couple of questions specifically addressed in the OP. I was hoping one of you brilliant beings could give me a quick answer here.

Long story short, I just picked up Another Code R, the PAL version, and I want to play it on my currently unmodded NTSC (US) Wii.

I don't really have any other use for modding the Wii, so ideally, I would like to do the bare minimum to play this game, then restore the Wii back to its original state.

So A), is this possible and B), whats the best way to go about it?

Thanks very much my friends.

 

[Clipper]

Hey guys,

Sorry to skip all that has been written before and jump straight to this, but I didn't see my couple of questions specifically addressed in the OP. I was hoping one of you brilliant beings could give me a quick answer here.

Long story short, I just picked up Another Code R, the PAL version, and I want to play it on my currently unmodded NTSC (US) Wii.

I don't really have any other use for modding the Wii, so ideally, I would like to do the bare minimum to play this game, then restore the Wii back to its original state.

So A), is this possible and B), whats the best way to go about it?

Thanks very much my friends.

If you want to make things recoverable, you would use one of the homebrew launching methods, but instead of using them to launch the Hackmii Installer as suggested, launch one of the region free techniques instead (I suggest Gecko OS).

 

[Pancakes R Us]

I'm having an odd problem with my Wii. I've been playing Twilight Princess over the last week, and the controls have been less than perfect. Basically, sometimes they just intermittently cut out for half a second. Despite this, the Wii never thinks the connection is lost (i.e. no warning about no remote in sync). First I thought it was my Nunchuk, then maybe my Remote once I realized it was more than just the Nunchuk. Eventually I got out the TP disc and tried playing it directly off the disc, and the problem disappeared, which leaves USB loading as the culprit.

As far as I know, this is not happening with other games. I just finished Other M without noticing any problem, and tested SMG2 after I noticed the problem just to be extra sure (back when I thought it was the stick that was the problem). I even tried deleting TP from my hard drive and reinstalling, but no dice. It can't be my disc because the disc itself works fine.

I can keep running off the disc, but I really like USB loading and don't want to give it up.

I'm using IOS249 (Rev 20b, merged with IOS56) and CFG 58a. Edit: Just to be sure, I updated to CFG v60 and still get the same problem.

Any ideas?

I've had the same problem playing Little King's Story, though I haven't tried it directly via the disc. To remedy it, i would disconnect the nunchuck from the wii remote and reconnect it.

 

[Dash Kappei]

So if I have an old WiiScu in my HBC I'm all set and I can just run that one again to get the latest Shop update?

Depends how old it is. It can't hurt to try it. If it fails, the new methods in the tutorial should work.

It's the one released for the "old" 4.1 shop update (for 4.0/below Wiis).

 

[Dogbert8]

I've had the same problem playing Little King's Story, though I haven't tried it directly via the disc. To remedy it, i would disconnect the nunchuck from the wii remote and reconnect it.

Thanks for the suggestion, but unfortunately it didn't work. It's possible we're experiencing different problems...

 

[Baron Aloha]

Are there any other forwarders out there for Cfg USB Loader besides the one on the GAF Wii homebrew wiki page? The one there is so grey and I don't like the music. How difficult is it to make your own forwarder?

I like Cfg in terms of functionality but the aesthetics leave much to be desired. I know it is "configurable" but there is still that console there and everything. I know you can get rid of the console but you kind of need it. I wish it was more like USB Loader GX in terms of looks and how you can click an area of the screen for options or to change the flow/layout. Is there a theme out there that replicates the general look of GX? I started working on one but took a break on it.

How is WiiFlow?

 

[Freedom = $1.05]

Are there any other forwarders out there for Cfg USB Loader besides the one on the GAF Wii homebrew wiki page? The one there is so grey and I don't like the music. How difficult is it to make your own forwarder?

I like Cfg in terms of functionality but the aesthetics leave much to be desired. I know it is "configurable" but there is still that console there and everything. I know you can get rid of the console but you kind of need it. I wish it was more like USB Loader GX in terms of looks and how you can click an area of the screen for options or to change the flow/layout. Is there a theme out there that replicates the general look of GX? I started working on one but took a break on it.

Cfg loader comes with an exe file that lets you change settings via your pc.

 

[Fodder76]

Thanks very much, I'll give this a try today!

 

[alf717]

Well I finally got the Wii back from repair and so far everything is going well for the most part. So here is what I am having an issue with.

1.) My first Wii LU10XXX lets me use my Maxtor one touch drive with only one USB port.
Console #2 LU30XXX needs to use both ports to power the USB drive. What is up with that?

2.) I used an NTFS drive which was detected by CFG at first but later kept timing out after 30 seconds. I formated to FAT32 all seems well but I'd like to have the drive working with NTFS if possible. The issue was that games would not install on NTFS. I get an error immediately upon trying to install a game.

3.) What would be the best recommendation if I wanted to use my games on both the Wii and the PC (through Dolphin) As of now I stopped installing games since they go into a folder called wbfs and the output is a larger .wbfs file.

4.) As far as compatibility goes are there any guides to follow for certain titles? My first install Silent Hill: Shattered Memories failed about 96% in. My second installed attempt failed again as well(same game). This was one of the discs that went in with the console since the Wii scratch up the outer edge of the disc. Nintendo says nothing was wrong with it and I assume they ran it through a cleaner but the scratch is still pretty visible.

5.) If Bootmii is installed as Boot2 can it be removed later on in case the console has to go in for repair again? Or should I just install Bootmii as an IOS instead for removal purposes.

Well I think that about sums it up for now.

 

[Clipper]

Well I finally got the Wii back from repair and so far everything is going well for the most part. So here is what I am having an issue with.

1.) My first Wii LU10XXX lets me use my Maxtor one touch drive with only one USB port.
Console #2 LU30XXX needs to use both ports to power the USB drive. What is up with that?

2.) I used an NTFS drive which was detected by CFG at first but later kept timing out after 30 seconds. I formated to FAT32 all seems well but I'd like to have the drive working with NTFS if possible. The issue was that games would not install on NTFS. I get an error immediately upon trying to install a game.

3.) What would be the best recommendation if I wanted to use my games on both the Wii and the PC (through Dolphin) As of now I stopped installing games since they go into a folder called wbfs and the output is a larger .wbfs file.

4.) As far as compatibility goes are there any guides to follow for certain titles? My first install Silent Hill: Shattered Memories failed about 96% in. My second installed attempt failed again as well(same game). This was one of the discs that went in with the console since the Wii scratch up the outer edge of the disc. Nintendo says nothing was wrong with it and I assume they ran it through a cleaner but the scratch is still pretty visible.

5.) If Bootmii is installed as Boot2 can it be removed later on in case the console has to go in for repair again? Or should I just install Bootmii as an IOS instead for removal purposes.

Well I think that about sums it up for now.

1) No clue why that would be. I guess they ma have changed the power output on later Wiis, though.

2)You need to add ntfs_write=1 to config.txt to use NTFS drives.

3)You can add install_partitions=iso to config.txt to make it create .iso files instead of .wbfs files.

4)I'm guessing the data that is damaged is not important. However, there's no way to trick Cfg into reading a damaged disc, but you could try other USB loaders for the installation as some don't bother checking for read errors.

5) Yes, it can be removed.

 

[Fodder76]

Thanks for the info Clipper, i grabbed a copy of Super Smash Bros Brawl (because I do have 4.3 installed), and I'm going to give this a shot tonight.

One thing though, I don't see anything in the Gecko wiki about how to revert back to the standard Wii software. Do you know where I can find out how to do that?

Thanks again!

 

[Clipper]

Thanks for the info Clipper, i grabbed a copy of Super Smash Bros Brawl (because I do have 4.3 installed), and I'm going to give this a shot tonight.

One thing though, I don't see anything in the Gecko wiki about how to revert back to the standard Wii software. Do you know where I can find out how to do that?

Thanks again!

Yeah, you don't want to be following the Wiki exactly. You would typically use SSBB to launch the HBC Installer, which installs to your Wii. Then that makes it very easy to launch homebrew from then on. However, you don't want anything permanent, so what you would need to do is to use SSBB to launch Gecko OS each and every time you want to play Another Code. You need to take Gecko OS' .dol from its page and use that instead of the Hackmii Installer in the Launch page.

 

[Fodder76]

Yeah, you don't want to be following the Wiki exactly. You would typically use SSBB to launch the HBC Installer, which installs to your Wii. Then that makes it very easy to launch homebrew from then on. However, you don't want anything permanent, so what you would need to do is to use SSBB to launch Gecko OS each and every time you want to play Another Code. You need to take Gecko OS' .dol from its page and use that instead of the Hackmii Installer in the Launch page.

Thanks, I'll give that a try!