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[LaunchpadMcQ]

Also, Burb, your theory is kind of bonkers

 

[Xamtheking]

Ok. That's not going to change how it went down.

It could have been used to set a trap for scum the following day, if the flip went to Table 2 when you said Table 1 and scum tried to call you out. You then respond with "it was actually all a ruse designed to draw out scum", get applauded by town, and proceed to stand over the dead body of lynched scum with pride

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

It could have been used to set a trap for scum the following day, if the flip went to Table 2 when you said Table 1 and scum tried to call you out. You then respond with "it was actually all a ruse designed to draw out scum", get applauded by town, and proceed to stand over the dead body of lynched scum with pride

That's a really low estimate of scum's and town's intelligence in this game.

 

[Burbeting]

Also, Burb, your theory is kind of bonkers

How so? I just feel that 1-shot night scramble that would mostly mess town is pretty useless town power. It would make much more sense to be part of a JOAT.

But town JOAT or scum? I'm unsure of that.

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

How so? I just feel that 1-shot night scramble that would mostly mess town is pretty useless town power. It would make much more sense to be part of a JOAT.

But town JOAT or scum? I'm unsure of that.

Would you agree that a sleepwalker is equally as useless?

Because I've had that power before and I heard the same damn thing.

 

[Burbeting]

Would you agree that a sleepwalker is equally as useless?

Because I've had that power before and I heard the same damn thing.

Sleepwalker usually works every night though, or at least every two nights. Your power was 1-shot and sort of useless ftom town pov (and if you are town, it was the right call to claim it).

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

Sleepwalker usually works every night though, or at least every two nights. Your power was 1-shot and sort of useless ftom town pov (and if you are town, it was the right call to claim it).

I'm just saying, there's a million perspectives to this and to say that it messed with scum even a little, I'll take that as a success. I didn't write or design this role, so I take it how it is.

 

[Burbeting]

My problem is also in the old problem that Xam has claimed the same power, but with the difference that it wouldn't have been as potentially dangerous as yours could have been.

 

[Xamtheking]

That's a really low estimate of scum's and town's intelligence in this game.

At least one trap worked this game
Also, the entire reason behind having a role not be able to select the table is to help provide randomness to the game as well as allowing the role to have a "gotcha" moment, which you haven't even attempted to capitalize on.

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

My problem is also in the old problem that Xam has claimed the same power, but with the difference that it wouldn't have been as potentially dangerous as yours could have been.

I'm not sure what to tell you. Although the action is similar, the nature is different. And...

At least one trap worked this game
Also, the entire reason behind having a role not be able to select the table is to help provide randomness to the game as well as allowing the role to have a "gotcha" moment, which you haven't even attempted to capitalize on.

I can only make the most with what I have. If you disagree with how I used it, that's not a reason to kill me over it.

 

[Xamtheking]

I can only make the most with what I have. If you disagree with how I used it, that's not a reason to kill me over it.

But that's a lie
You did not make the most with what you had
You failed to capitalize or even attempt to use the randomness in any way shape or form
That is 100% not making the most of what you had

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

But that's a lie
You did not make the most with what you had
You failed to capitalize or even attempt to use the randomness in any way shape or form
That is 100% not making the most of what you had

And that makes me scum?

 

[Xamtheking]

And that makes me scum?

Combine that with the lack of evidence we have to prove your role even exists, and yes, I think it does.
Here.
You said you got results, right?
What were they?

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

Combine that with the lack of evidence we have to prove your role even exists, and yes, I think it does.
Here.
You said you got results, right?
What were they?

What do you call "lack of evidence"? Ouro's actions being disrupted (well, the once) should tell you something happened there, and I've taken responsibility for that. The only counter evidence is Camjo who has no clue what he's doing.

The result was just the table that was shifted. Table 2.

 

[Xamtheking]

What do you call "lack of evidence"? Ouro's actions being disrupted (well, the once) should tell you something happened there, and I've taken responsibility for that. The only counter evidence is Camjo who has no clue what he's doing.

The result was just the table that was shifted. Table 2.

Actually
I call bullshit on ouro getting disrupted
And respond with some sweet, sweet logic
So I got a drink N1
You said your power was used on Table 2, where I was seated
Ouro said he targeted the pair of me and RNH
Now, let's say that your power would shift ouro's pair choice (as he targets a pair of people) across the table.
Since I received a drink N1, if your power worked the way it did, and the pair of me+RNH was not selected, and RNH was on my left, the only way I could have still received a drink that night was if the pair that was selected was me+ the person on my right
Here's where it gets interesting, because the person on my right was Ouro, who is notified when he drinks one of his own drinks
And since Ouro didn't get the notification, but I still got a drink, the only possible pairing left would be me+RNH, which therefore disproves your role

 

[Burbeting]

I dont think that's how it works xam. If table 2 was disrupted, it would mean everyone switched places, right? So the people sitting next to you were 2 completely new people.

Or alternatively, if Ouro targets seats, you were either switched to your old seat on RNH's, and somebody new went to the other seat.

 

[roytheone]

So now launch is claiming that first the target table would be chosen with RNG, and then scrambled with even more RNG! That seems like a pretty weird power to me, at least when you can pick the table yourself you can do some WIFOM games with scum, but now launch claims it is 100% rng? Not that useful in my mind.

What do you call "lack of evidence"? Ouro's actions being disrupted (well, the once) should tell you something happened there, and I've taken responsibility for that. The only counter evidence is Camjo who has no clue what he's doing.

The result was just the table that was shifted. Table 2.

Well, Ourob's actions being disrupted is hardly evidence of your power existing. One of his targets still got his drink, and the other just disappeared, it didn't move to someone else as far as we know.

I am starting to get more and more convinced Launch is just bullshitting us. It is weird that a scum would do such a gamble on day one, but we have seen weirder gambits from scum before.

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

Actually
I call bullshit on ouro getting disrupted
And respond with some sweet, sweet logic
So I got a drink N1
You said your power was used on Table 2, where I was seated
Ouro said he targeted the pair of me and RNH
Now, let's say that your power would shift ouro's pair choice (as he targets a pair of people) across the table.
Since I received a drink N1, if your power worked the way it did, and the pair of me+RNH was not selected, and RNH was on my left, the only way I could have still received a drink that night was if the pair that was selected was me+ the person on my right
Here's where it gets interesting, because the person on my right was Ouro, who is notified when he drinks one of his own drinks
And since Ouro didn't get the notification, but I still got a drink, the only possible pairing left would be me+RNH, which therefore disproves your role

That's actually a really narrow way of interpreting it that serves your agenda.

My expectation is that Retro, for my action, makes up an altogether new seating arrangement. He RNGs everyone at the table to a new position, then distributes the actions to the seats rather than the players. So, in actuality, if you look at the table map on D1, what Ouro actually targeted (at least, for Retro's calculation) were seats I and J at table 2. Thus, when the table was mixed up, the drinks landed at seats I and J, which you just so happen to land in again. Hell, you could have been at J, that's not an altogether impossible scenario.

Why should you think that's true? Well, that's how I'd do it and I did guess that the tables would get a modswitch at day start with no additional information. However, this one seems a bit more cut and dry; the seats have letter designations for a reason, I'm sure.

 

[Ourobolus]

I dont think that's how it works xam. If table 2 was disrupted, it would mean everyone switched places, right? So the people sitting next to you were 2 completely new people.

Or alternatively, if Ouro targets seats, you were either switched to your old seat on RNH's, and somebody new went to the other seat.

I specifically asked how my role would interact with any hypothetical switching actions early on D1 and got the response "imagine you're targeting the seats."

 

[Camjo-Z]

i have a question

Launch's power just redirects abilities, not outright block them, right? So what the heck would it have to do with the N1 drink anyway?

 

[Burbeting]

I specifically asked how my role would interact with any hypothetical switching actions early on D1 and got the response "imagine you're targeting the seats."

That's what I assumed, yeah.

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

Guys, just because it doesn't make sense for a person to hide the fact that they've gotten a drink doesn't mean they wouldn't for whatever reason.

Also, I forget, but what happens if the drink lands on Ouro due to the RNG? I think we've discussed this.

 

[Ty4on]

i have a question

Launch's power just redirects abilities, not outright block them, right? So what the heck would it have to do with the N1 drink anyway?

This bothers me as well. It couldn't have hit a dead person and we don't know of any roles that could block it.

 

[Burbeting]

Guys, just because it doesn't make sense for a person to hide the fact that they've gotten a drink doesn't mean they wouldn't for whatever reason.

Also, I forget, but what happens if the drink lands on Ouro due to the RNG? I think we've discussed this.

Ouro said he would be notified. He wasn't, apparently.

 

[Burbeting]

Was gryvan still counted to seats in n1? I think this is relevant information.

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

Was gryvan still counted to seats in n1? I think this is relevant information.

He should have been. It's like, if he had an ability, it would still take effect. If he was targeted with one, it could take effect as well. I don't know why it would be any different.

 

[Xamtheking]

I dont think that's how it works xam. If table 2 was disrupted, it would mean everyone switched places, right? So the people sitting next to you were 2 completely new people.

Or alternatively, if Ouro targets seats, you were either switched to your old seat on RNH's, and somebody new went to the other seat.

That's actually a really narrow way of interpreting it that serves your agenda.

My expectation is that Retro, for my action, makes up an altogether new seating arrangement. He RNGs everyone at the table to a new position, then distributes the actions to the seats rather than the players. So, in actuality, if you look at the table map on D1, what Ouro actually targeted (at least, for Retro's calculation) were seats I and J at table 2. Thus, when the table was mixed up, the drinks landed at seats I and J, which you just so happen to land in again. Hell, you could have been at J, that's not an altogether impossible scenario.

Why should you think that's true? Well, that's how I'd do it and I did guess that the tables would get a modswitch at day start with no additional information. However, this one seems a bit more cut and dry; the seats have letter designations for a reason, I'm sure.

Too bad you don't actually change the seats the players are physically in, per your role claim:

Alright, I think I've let you guys stew long enough. I'll do the full role reveal.

I'm ScraftyDevil, the Wedding Planner. I have no idea where this flavor even came from, but I'm apparently the person who chooses the seating arrangement. During the day phase, I can decide to randomize the seating arrangement of 1 table of my choice before actions are taken. The flavor is that I had already rearranged the labels on the place settings during the day phase. However, I have to do it in a hurry so I just kind of throw them around quickly. Anyone targeted will have their action redirected to another player at that table at random (I assume Retro does a new seating arrangement for my ability when I use it, based on what he's told me.) That's about all I'm told about the map function. So, you can see why this would be mutually disruptive for all parties. The outcome could be beneficial if the mafia end up accidentally using abilities on each other.

You said you thought a new seating arrangement would take place, but you knew it wouldn't, because you had some inside information about how movement works because you are indeed scum.
But let's say it does actually change the seats?
Well, sorry, but there is still a counterpoint to that.
The mod-controlled table swap at the start of the day DOES NOT AFFECT ANY PRIOR NIGHT ACTIONS (which would include your power being used on Table 2), so the Table 2 Layout we saw at the start of D2 would have been after your power had been used, which leaves the possible pairings that include me as Me+BSP and Me+Weemad, as per the starting D2 Map. Since neither of them got a drink...

 

[Burbeting]

But Bronllys man's ability apparently discarded dead people.

Retro, can we get an official clarification? Are dead people's seats still counted during night phase, or will we assume there is one seat less in the table where the lynched was?

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

Too bad you don't actually change the seats the players are physically in, per your role claim:

You said you thought a new seating arrangement would take place, but you knew it wouldn't, because you had some inside information about how movement works because you are indeed scum.
But let's say it does actually change the seats?
Well, sorry, but there is still a counterpoint to that.
The mod-controlled table swap at the start of the day DOES NOT AFFECT ANY PRIOR NIGHT ACTIONS (which would include your power being used on Table 2), so the Table 2 Layout we saw at the start of D2 would have been after your power had been used, which leaves the possible pairings that include me as Me+BSP and Me+Weemad, as per the starting D2 Map. Since neither of them got a drink...

Xam, why is this so hard for you to grasp lol

The flavor reads like changing the name tags assigned to the seats, so people with abilities (who use an ACTION:<player name> format) will target the wrong name tags. In practice, I'm just expecting it's a whole new table diagram.

Nobody ever said the mod swap affected abilities. My God.

But Bronllys man's ability apparently discarded dead people.

Retro, can we get an official clarification? Are dead people's seats still counted during night phase, or will we assume there is one seat less in the table where the lynched was?

I'd like clarification on this, as well. Just a general statement.

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

But Bronllys man's ability apparently discarded dead people.

Retro, can we get an official clarification? Are dead people's seats still counted during night phase, or will we assume there is one seat less in the table where the lynched was?

Oh, wait, Gryvan was our lynch. My mistake. I got him and KK mixed up.

He shouldn't be counted, no.

 

[RetroMG]

Dead players are removed from the table once their death is announced. Gryvan was not at the table during night 1.

 

[Ourobolus]

Guys, just because it doesn't make sense for a person to hide the fact that they've gotten a drink doesn't mean they wouldn't for whatever reason.

Also, I forget, but what happens if the drink lands on Ouro due to the RNG? I think we've discussed this.

Ouro said he would be notified. He wasn't, apparently.

I would be notified, and it would bump my rest day a day earlier.

 

[Xamtheking]

Xam, why is this so hard for you to grasp lol

The flavor reads like changing the name tags assigned to the seats, so people with abilities (who use an ACTION:<player name> format) will target the wrong name tags. In practice, I'm just expecting it's a whole new table diagram.

Nobody ever said the mod swap affected abilities. My God.

Kk so
If you were telling the truth, your action comes before all other actions at night, which means the map would be swapped and then not changed at the start of the day by the daily-modswap.
This means that the Start D2 Map was the result of your power going off
Let's take a gander

Since I still got a drink after your power, one of the two pairings I was in must have been targeted, no?
Now I have class for a tiny bit but will be back

 

[Ourobolus]

Dead players are removed from the table once their death is announced. Gryvan was not at the table during night 1.

I read this in Alton Brown's voice and it was deeply disturbing.

 

[Burbeting]

Dead players are removed from the table once their death is announced. Gryvan was not at the table during night 1.

Thanks.

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

Ok, fuck it. I'll admit it. I got the fucking drink.

Lynch me for hiding it if you want, I don't care. I knew that if I revealed it this late in the run (as in, after Ouro claimed), you guys would find me suspicious as fuck. The reason I defended the point that someone would hide it is because I did; I didn't know what the fuck it was and I reasoned not mentioning it would bait out the person who passed them out. I didn't figure Ouro would be friendly.

 

[Camjo-Z]

Ok, fuck it. I'll admit it. I got the fucking drink.

Lynch me for hiding it if you want, I don't care. I knew that if I revealed it this late in the run (as in, after Ouro claimed), you guys would find me suspicious as fuck. The reason I defended the point that someone would hide it is because I did; I didn't know what the fuck it was and I reasoned not mentioning it would bait out the person who passed them out. I didn't figure Ouro would be friendly.

lmao

 

[Ourobolus]

Kk so
If you were telling the truth, your action comes before all other actions at night, which means the map would be swapped and then not changed at the start of the day by the daily-modswap.
This means that the Start D2 Map was the result of your power going off
Let's take a gander

Since I still got a drink after your power, one of the two pairings I was in must have been targeted, no?
Now I have class for a tiny bit but will be back

omg I feel like I'm in an infinite loop

Xam

I can't give drinks across tables

If Launch is telling the truth, it's independent of the Night-End-Swap.

Launch Swap -> People do shit -> Night End Swap

So the D2 map is the result of that last swap.

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

lmao

Yeah, I know. I'm not doing myself any favors at this point, either.

 

[Ourobolus]

Ok, fuck it. I'll admit it. I got the fucking drink.

Lynch me for hiding it if you want, I don't care. I knew that if I revealed it this late in the run (as in, after Ouro claimed), you guys would find me suspicious as fuck. The reason I defended the point that someone would hide it is because I did; I didn't know what the fuck it was and I reasoned not mentioning it would bait out the person who passed them out. I didn't figure Ouro would be friendly.

lol

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

Come on, I'm telling the truth.

 

[Fireblend]

Ok so I've read the last 3 pages. Is there something from the last 7 I should know or has it all been drink madness the whole time? I'm still partial to lynching the claimed arsonist, btw. Launch isn't doing himself any favors but I'd rather lynch the guy that can multikill first.

 

[Burbeting]

That still doesn't explain the douse, though.

Why didn't you tell this in d2?

 

[Ty4on]

Ok, fuck it. I'll admit it. I got the fucking drink.

Lynch me for hiding it if you want, I don't care. I knew that if I revealed it this late in the run (as in, after Ouro claimed), you guys would find me suspicious as fuck. The reason I defended the point that someone would hide it is because I did; I didn't know what the fuck it was and I reasoned not mentioning it would bait out the person who passed them out. I didn't figure Ouro would be friendly.

But you knew whomever gave you the drink wouldn't have known they gave it to you because of your swap. How did you plan on baiting them out?

 

[Ty4on]

Ok so I've read the last 3 pages. Is there something from the last 7 I should know or has it all been drink madness the whole time? I'm still partial to lynching the claimed arsonist, btw. Launch isn't doing himself any favors but I'd rather lynch the guy that can multikill first.

Seven 100ppp or Seven 50ppp?

Or just use post numbers? What posts have you skipped? ~2250-2600?

 

[Xamtheking]

omg I feel like I'm in an infinite loop

Xam

I can't give drinks across tables

If Launch is telling the truth, it's independent of the Night-End-Swap.

Launch Swap -> People do shit -> Night End Swap

So the D2 map is the result of that last swap.

If launch swapped everyone's movement, Night End Swap wouldn't have affected it, as per Retro's post on D2

 

[Ourobolus]

If launch swapped everyone's movement, Night End Swap wouldn't have affected it, as per Retro's post on D2

You're going to have to find that post for me, because I don't remember that at all. And I still don't understand what you mean - the night end swap doesn't affect it because it happens after everything else happens at night.

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

That still doesn't explain the douse, though.

Why didn't you tell this in d2?

RE: the douse, Camjo is most definitely lying

But you knew whomever gave you the drink wouldn't have known they gave it to you because of your swap. How did you plan on baiting them out?

I was withholding the information to see what would shake loose. I didn't really know what to expect in D2, especially not that Ouro would be a non-threatening neutral, so I kept it to myself and see if someone would take responsibility. After the point when Ouro said "yeah, I was giving out drinks but they're not poison", mentioning it would already start putting nails in my coffin. You would think I was trying to confirm my own claim, which is self-serving and scummy. I was also expecting someone else to try to claim they received the drink, but I realized no one had any reason to; there were no dead scapegoats, so anyone coming forward would be under the same scrutiny as I would be. I was going to keep it to myself, but you guys are expending a lot of attention on it and me. I feel like if I don't get lynched today, it'll certainly be tomorrow.

 

[Xamtheking]

You're going to have to find that post for me, because I don't remember that at all. And I still don't understand what you mean - the night end swap doesn't affect it because it happens after everything else happens at night.

Until the Bride is happy with the seating arrangements*, the seats will be rearranged at the beginning of each day phase. This will have no effect on the prior night’s actions.

*

Spoiler

This will never happen. You may safely assume that the seats will change every night for the duration of the game.

spooky mod post
Ergo
Launch's seat swap wouldn't have been altered by Night End Swap

 

[CzarTim]

So Launch is "confirming" his own ability?

lol