• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Gafia 2: The Bride of Gafia |Mafia OT| One Wedding, Many Funerals

Ty4on

Member
I don't really understand why Nin is playing so coy about last night's results. I mean, there shouldn't be any reason for him to hide anything?

What are you trying to understand? That he's scum and holding intel back because it'll hurt a scum mate? That's not very rational either.
 

Burbeting

Banned
What are you trying to understand? That he's scum and holding intel back because it'll hurt a scum mate? That's not very rational either.

I'm just trying to understand the way his mind works, I guess.

Where did the ordinary claim on Time come from BTW?

It was a fluke from my side. I somehow remembered that Time had claimed ordinary way back after Nin had role-claimed back in Day 3. I should have re-checked it when making the claim chart for today, but I trusted my memory too much. I didn't remember that Tim had seemed to have claimed ordinary before, so I really should have double-checked everything.
 

Ty4on

Member
It was a fluke from my side. I somehow remembered that Time had claimed ordinary way back after Nin had role-claimed back in Day 3. I should have re-checked it when making the claim chart for today, but I trusted my memory too much. I didn't remember that Tim had seemed to have claimed ordinary before, so I really should have double-checked everything.

Do you remember the post you thought of?
 

Ty4on

Member
And in case its not clear... I don't buy it. If it was true and your idea was to screw with scum and protect town, then you fucked up. Also, you hinted pretty heavily that Retro also scrambled the table between night and day fase on D1, how did you know that? Jailor shouldn't have access to that kind of information and "lucky guess" its reaching.

Not to metion, why didn't the jailed players got any kind of notification?

The only way to prove your role right now is to lynch Ty4on and have him flip scum.

I mean, if I was a jailor and no one died after I blocked him, I'll be EXTREMELY ADAMANT about it. Just look at how nin was acting when he believed he had a ping.

SalvaPot's behaviour today isn't lining up with how he thought at the start of last day. Reading this it seems like I should be confirmed scum for him, but he hasn't even voted for me and probably won't as the day ends when he is usually sleeping.
 

Burbeting

Banned
Reading back the pages, it was this post:

I will say I did not move on night one. Burb claims the same. So that leaves either Burb or I as the target of some night action, for whatever that is worth.

As for Camjo and Ty4on. Ty4on claims he's ordinary. Camjo hasn't come forward yet.

At first he says that he didn't move and then talks about your ordinary claim. My brains must have had fused those two talking points into one. That was my blunder on my part, sorry. I should have re-checked it.
 

Burbeting

Banned
Ty, out of Fireblend and Roy, who seems to be more suspicious to you?

I'm right now feeling a bit torn on keeping my vote on you, or switching it to Time.
 

Burbeting

Banned
Points against Ty4on:

- Voting pattern on Day 2, he voted on Kalor. Scum would think Kalor is town. (FYI this is only valid point if Salva is scum)
- Launchpad's jailin on Night 4 when there was no NK.


Points for Ty4on:
- Has been contributive to the discussion throughout the game, has not blended or just sat around.
- When Weemadarthur was lynched, his reaction seemed very genuine, scum would more likely stay silent and not make any new posts.
 

Ty4on

Member
Huh, could have sworn I had posted more about my town read of Fire, but I couldn't find it.
It's mainly these two posts. I made some short notes on N1 about them:

Haha well this ridiculous overreaction doesn't do anything to change my opinion of you. You seem to be flip-flopping here between whether there's stuff to discuss or not - you seem to acknowledge both Launch's claim and the map theories are worth discussing, after all.

About your over-the-top paranoia, you offered some theories on the map, which were responded to in what I thought was a reasonable way, and you think that meant other people were onto you? I didn't notice anything particularly hostile about the responses you got, if anything it seems like you've got a bit of a persecution complex :p

And my own post wasn't meant to be that hostile either, day 1 is just a whole lot of poking and that's what I did. I'd rather focus on someone I find odd for now and pursue that instead of poking lightly at multiple players who know the vote will probably not stick.

You also conveniently ignored my 2 questions, so yeah, not what I was expecting at all but I guess valuable for my own reads nonetheless.
Notes said:
He really seems to be tunneling here.
Two things stick out. It's very direct and doesn't try to justify itself and the phrase:
"I'd rather focus on someone [...] and pursue that instead of poking lightly at multiple people..."
Is a recurring theme.
[...]
Here's the thing: Everyone here knows how Day 1 always goes. Everyone here has their expectations of how cautiously and reserved everyone's going to act today. People expect votes to not stick for long, accusations to retreat after the first response, a whole lot of "I'm not sure about... but I guess they're a good lynch candidate", etc. Being suspected by someone on day 1 isn't threatening anymore because you know the 1 or 2 votes on you aren't going to stick by the end-of-day scramble.

Here's an alternative: act confident. Pick someone who you think has done something odd early on, and pick their brain. Make it look like you're sure you know something, really make your one vote seem like it has some weight and it's not going to change at the drop of a hat. That's my strategy today. You think scum is going to reveal themselves or gamble actual information or thoughts to get a vote off them when your 1 vote is just that and they know it might change any second?

I know as much about Gryvan as you do, but by saying "is he town? I don't know!" well then isn't that a perfect non-commital; if Gryvan is scum he had a sigh of relief there.
[...]
Notes said:
Fire is usually more reserved, so this is a change of attitude.
After Batman Fire seemed like he would focus more on being more involved though so this isn't unexpected.
The pace is very good. This reads as something written quickly and there is barely any extra justification for his viewpoints. He seems certain of himself.

Then there is a short back and forth between me and Fire starting from #564. Fire just felt genuine to me. He seemed to be going after gryvan because he thought he was scum. I tried looking at Flux and Sorian in Batman because we had scum Sorian going after town Flux, but the attacks seemed a lot more hollow there.
There is some doubt very close to the end (which made me vote Fire), but that's normal for town as well.
To add up on the genuinity, Fire isn't scared. As scum he should know gryvan flipping town can make him look bad, but that doesn't seem to cross his mind. Apart from the aforementioned doubt he never seemed to back off.

I wanted something more after this, but Fire was never very active. I'm pretty sure I was consistently town reading or defending Fire after this.

Later when Wee flipped I looked back at their interactions and liked what I saw with Fire. Again I wish there was more, but what I am seeing looks good to me. He seems genuine and not like he's creating distance for later gains.
So, Fireblend. Do you have any direct response to my notes on you? I am very surprised that you think Gryvan and Xam haven't behaved exactly as they did in batman. Although Gryvan seemed to be trying to step up his play level since his refusal to play ball with town got him lynched in that game.

Weemad: I'm actually surprised that you say I'm acting differently from Batman. This season I've been trying to shake things up a bit. On Batman I went after you on D1. Sorian even said I seemed unusually confident when I was going after you. You shaked it off well though, which was the total opposite of Gryvan yesterday and Scrafty so far. I don't think I'm tense or serious either, I was just trying to make my vote have weight yesterday, which was sort of a success.

I think Xam is acting different from Batman, I don't recall saying the same about Gryvan. Xam felt reserved and defeatist in B while here he seems decisive and spontaneous, it's a subjective thing but that's how I feel. I do read Xam more as town than other people.

Gafia has a serious problem with catching scum, then just letting them go because they claim to be something important.

If we have a truly believable cop claim, then no I wouldn't leave my vote there. But a wishy washy claim without saying who's cleared, and not coming back, isn't believable in my book.

Still, I haven't left the thread. I've said it would take something significant to take my vote off Scrafty, and if we get to significant, I will do so. I'm currently reviewing the thread to see who I would vote for instead of her if it came to that.

Cop isn't a role scum can claim and just leave there. They can risk maaaybe letting a doctor live like in Batman (plus presumably there knew there was a high chance the doctor was helping then :p)

A cop is too risky though. If Scrafty is cop, I doubt she'll survive the night. Scrafty, what's your plan here? Now that you've claimed, it makes 0 sense not to share everything you've got.
 

Burbeting

Banned
Points against Timeaisis:
- The alarm Nin got in N1. It seems that most of the players have claimed by now, and there is no proof that any Town PR had targeted Time or me at this point. Scum PR targeting is possible, though.
- One of the players who was completely AFK at the end of D2. It seems likely that scum would have either tried to save Weemadarthur, or then not be present when the D2 end happened.
- In general lot of blending and non-presence, something that Fireblend is very guilty of too.
- One of the more cautious responses to Launchpad's claim IMO.

Points for Timeaisis:
- Not much. But none of the points above are alone as damning as the jailing Launch did on Ty4on.
 

Ty4on

Member
Ty, why were you were so focused so much on the time claim today?

For the Terra claim. It seemed weird for me to react like that if you were ordinary. It's also weird that he didn't investigate closer what that meant.

For me it seems most likely that A, Time moved and didn't spend time on that because he knew Terra's claim wasn't true (he may just have been scrambling thinking he was caught) or B, Time didn't move, but knew how Terra's power worked (Nin is scum/we have a third). The latter is probably the least likely.
 

CzarTim

Member
For the Terra claim. It seemed weird for me to react like that if you were ordinary. It's also weird that he didn't investigate closer what that meant.

For me it seems most likely that A, Time moved and didn't spend time on that because he knew Terra's claim wasn't true (he may just have been scrambling thinking he was caught) or B, Time didn't move, but knew how Terra's power worked (Nin is scum/we have a third). The latter is probably the least likely.

Gotcha, okay.
 

Ty4on

Member
Ty4on:
3 (Xam, CzarTim, Burb)

Xamtheking:
2 (Time, Fire)

Timeaisis:
2 (Roy, Ty)

Salvapot:
1 (Seath)

Nin1000:
1 (Ouro)
 

Burbeting

Banned
VOTE: Timeaisis

I'm not sure yet which one of you two is the better choice, but right now I feel like voting Timeaisis is better idea. At least there is still time (pun not intended).
 

Ourobolus

Banned
I guess the nin-signal was useless. Sigh.

UNVOTE

Time is on my list, and I'd be fine with voting for him, but are we assuming he is the roleblocker? Why didn't he block Scrafty then?

HD8TdQU.png

It was only N2, so the chances that a protective role existed were pretty high (now we know that Launch was it, but I'm talking about assumptions made early on). Seems risky. Fireblend and Roy weren't at the table that night.

If he is the RB, maybe they just said "fuck it" and hoped for the best, but I don't see why they wouldn't have been cautious.
 

Burbeting

Banned
They could have RB'd and Killed Scrafty, hoping that at least one would go through?

Or Strongman killed her, and the scum didn't think of possible Jailor, assuming there is more likely a town RB?
 

Ourobolus

Banned
Bronx-man was killed. Scum would have assumed that protective power would have been sitting on him since Scrafty's flip made him confirmed town more or less.

You're starting your logic train at the assumption "Scum has a Strongman."
Try starting at the fact of "Bronx is confirmed town."
 

Ourobolus

Banned
Sorry, I thought you assumed they couldn't roleblock Scrafty N2 because they blocked someone else.

No, I wasn't assuming either way. If scum didn't RB Scrafty then I don't know who they would have RB'd instead. But Burb's scenario (RB+Kill) seems likely.
 

Burbeting

Banned
You're starting your logic train at the assumption "Scum has a Strongman."
Try starting at the fact of "Bronx is confirmed town."

Bronx is confirmed town, scum would obviously want to kill him at that point. There was lot of claims at the time of N3, but I guess Bronx was the most confirmed one at the time. But I'm still wondering if scum didn't expect any healing powers to target Bronx, or if they just tried their luck.
 

Burbeting

Banned
I mean, it would have been the most logical move of healing PR to target Scrafty in N2 and then Bronx in N3. It seems that Launch is the only healing power, but there was no information about missing drinks back in N2. N3, there was.
 

Ourobolus

Banned
Bronx is confirmed town, scum would obviously want to kill him at that point. There was lot of claims at the time of N3, but I guess Bronx was the most confirmed one at the time. But I'm still wondering if scum didn't expect any healing powers to target Bronx, or if they just tried their luck.

All I'm saying is that at the time, a Strongman was a good assumption. Now that we know Launch couldn't have protected either of them, it doesn't hold as much weight. Sure, it's still possible, but we have more info now.
 

Burbeting

Banned
All I'm saying is that at the time, a Strongman was a good assumption. Now that we know Launch couldn't have protected either of them, it doesn't hold as much weight. Sure, it's still possible, but we have more info now.

But scum didn't know about the existense of Launch the jailor either at the time. They shouldn't have had a clue on N2...

Except if they figured out that their powers targeting in Table 2 went to the right targets on N1. They would have known that Launch was lying, but also known that he was town. Hmh.
 

Ourobolus

Banned
But scum didn't know about the existense of Launch the jailor either at the time. They shouldn't have had a clue on N2...

Except if they figured out that their powers targeting in Table 2 went to the right targets on N1. They would have known that Launch was lying, but also known that he was town. Hmh.

It's possible, like I said. It's still just a possibility.

Anyway, we're getting off track. Where the hell is everyone?
 

Ourobolus

Banned
Anyway, right now I'm back and forth on Time and Ty4on. I do scum-read Time, and more or less town-read Ty4on, but a lot of my read on Time is also hinging on Nin, whom I'm having a lot of issues with right now. I know he's erratic, but it's not helping my thought process at the moment.
 

Kevyt

Member
Where is Salvapot. Also, interesting vote there on Burbeting.

I am honestly more worried about Xam than anyone else.

I think he could very likely be scum, and want to hear more from him.

Vote: Xamtheking
 

roytheone

Member
I just feel like nin has been very much tunneling throughout this game.

I think he has been tunnelling, but not necessarily on a person, but on his power. Whenever he had a ping he always immediately jumped on one of those persons, not really considering the many other possibilities that exist. He has been all over the map, and I don't really have a good feeling for who he really suspects of being scum, outside of you.
 

Kevyt

Member
Oh, we only have two hours left... I'll be at a workshop in a couple of hours so hopefully I'll be here until then.

Love how Salvapot and Xamtheking get away with just coasting.... Oh yeah.

Burb, it was the vote on you from nin1000
 

roytheone

Member
Where is Salvapot. Also, interesting vote there on Burbeting.

I am honestly more worried about Xam than anyone else.

I think he could very likely be scum, and want to hear more from him.

Vote: Xamtheking

I am beginning to cool down on Xam being town, someone made a good remark about how he offered control of his power to me and Bronx, but then went ahead and used it himself when there was some pressure on him, instead of waiting for me to wake up who would have backed him up. Both of his power usage has been pretty much purely for himself and not town (first one because he wanted to do cool shit and thought he was going to die, second one to get some heat from him), which is not really that town, but then again that is kinda how Xam plays, even if he is town.

Him flipping scum would give us a lot of information though. It would make me feel better about AB and (in a lesser degree fire) because of their last minute push for Xam yesterday, plus we can look at the map configurations when he pulled the alarm to see if that gives us any hints about other scum. Still, I am not that convinced he is scum, so I would rather go for timeaisis or ty4on.
 

Ourobolus

Banned
I still read Xam as town, but I'm not happy with Salva coasting and then asking for pity party when he does.

Salva's definitely higher in the list for me. Xam is teetering for me - he used his ability to "prove" he was town early on, but ultimately did nothing. He's been a large non-entity since like D3 as well.
 

Burbeting

Banned
Ouro, what happens if you give someone a drink a second time?

Just looking at the table arrangement and there doesn't seem to be two non-drink people sitting next to each other this time.
 
Top Bottom