Well, yeah, you are probably right...but here's the thing. Why target Ty4on? At that point we had two motion detector claims and they remain alive. Yet scum goes after Ty4on instead who claims ordinary? I don't get the logic there. Seems like only a small step up from killing an unclaimed.
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Gafia 2: The Bride of Gafia |Mafia OT| One Wedding, Many Funerals
- Thread starter RetroMG
- Start date
Well, yeah, you are probably right...but here's the thing. Why target Ty4on? At that point we had two motion detector claims and they remain alive. Yet scum goes after Ty4on instead who claims ordinary? I don't get the logic there. Seems like only a small step up from killing an unclaimed.
Well, sorta - I mean we are currently having the discussion that you aren't the obvious choice. It's a lot of WIFOM floating around.
I was meaning that they didn't target Ty4on that night. More likely candidate would have been Terra or Xam.
I have more WIFOM
I think I mentioned this to CzarTim, but maybe target the ordinary thinking a claimed role is going to be protected by the jailor. It is possible scum deduced we had a jailor when they knew that they didn't stop the drinks N1 and N2.
So we're back to that same question then...we know how Ty4on would've survived a NK, but we have no idea how anyone else would have.
I feel like we are just going in circles at this point.
That was my conclusion after Camjo was blocked. My drinks kept disappearing (but not both of them each night), and then once the Arso was blocked, a jailor was the only thing that made sense. Granted, I was wrong since apparently there's also a roleblocker out there, but that was my thoughts when I posted that. And I didn't really want to, but Salva and Camjo wouldn't shut up about it.
...really?
Let's say the vote completely shifts, we vote you out and you flip scum. That doesn't clear me, but it makes it a lot less likely that I'm scum.
I can kinda understand this with BSP as she was busy and inactive, but I think it's flawed to use that argument here. Especially because me flipping town doesn't open any new leads. All town can deduce is that I was the likely N4 target which I guess puts some pressure on the tracker claims, but that's about it.
Launch and Ty were sitting on different tables, right?
AbsolutBro
Member
Given the list of people at the table:
Launch: can't target himself
BSP: lynched, not an option
Ouro: Drinks successfully handed out
Me: Received a drink
Burb: Received a drink
Which means he used his power on one of these three:
Roy
Time
Fireblend
Of course, that doesn't really tell us much. A NK got through, and scum would be foolish to have someone at Launch's table do the NK.
Which limits us to people at table 2:
Ty4on
Nin - Motion Detector
Xam - Bell Puller
Seath
Salva - Terra says no movement
Terrabyte - Motion Detector
Czar - Terra says no movement
which sort of leaves 2 options:
Ty40n
Seath
Haivng a PR doesn't rule someone out as scum, which theoretically adds
Xam
Nin
Terra
But I am pretty sure Terra is not scum.
Nin has posted twice, but not bothered to give a MD report. Frankly, were I a town MD report that would be my first post of the day phase. Especially when it can narrow down the killer.
We have deduced that scum are likely to have a role blocker. They blocked Camjo and are scum because two blockers for town would probably be too powerful.
We have scum killer and blocker. Both target Launch. Let's go through the possibilities:
Launch jails the killer, blocker blocks Launch so the kill still goes through.
Launch jails the blocker, killer still kills Launch so the kill still goes through.
Therefore I think it's possible scum from both table killed Launch. Maybe more so Launch's own because that table had zero motion detectors.
Given how Kalor's role was worded (blocks passive actions), it makes me think that a regular RB only blocks active actions.
why would that make you less likely to be scum? Or anyone flipping scum for that matter? Just because of the numbers?
AbsolutBro
Member
Of course, that assumes our killer isn't one of the MDs. Kalor had a passive ability and would have been able to do the NK, we cannot rule out the possibility that a scum MD would have the same option.
Terrabyte20xx
Junior Wrestlemania XXX Champion
Kalor couldn't kill until he was the last scum alive.
Mostly because I have been scum reading you.
I just felt like you were justifying a mislynch.
Kalor was a hidden partner. Using the rules of his powers as a base for speculating about other scum powers is probably not a good idea.
Why is that again? Reading back you only say that you think I am a bit safe and you have no good reason to believe I am town,and that you are ok with my lynch. It's not like you have been heavily pushing for my lynch, not even yesterday.
AbsolutBro
Member
Hm, fair point.
Your playstyle just reminds me so much of scum. Posts feel planned out instead of being reactions to the events unfolding.
Uh, have you been reading the thread? I have my vote on time and even had some back and forth discussion with him today.....
Fuck that's right. I even remember reading that post because I had both of you in the scum category. I was at work from 13-22 that day though so I didn't have time to follow in closely and mostly skimmed through it.
Reading it now
How did you envision it helping us? It would affect our trackers, but I don't see many cases where a random shuffle would help them. Maybe if they are next to each other or close to an obvious NK target, but that's quite specific.
Time, is it true you never claimed ordinary?
I tried going through your posts and this is all I found.
I tried going through your posts and this is all I found.
This reply bothers me. If we go back to Terra's claim (bolded mine):
We see him claiming motion in only one seat. We know that Terra misread his PM, but if Time didn't move then he wouldn't have known that. Much later Time claimed not moving:
So why was he so skeptical of Terra? If he didn't move then he has a soft confirmation of Terra's role because Terra essentially claimed seeing Time not moving.
It seemed like a good ability to have in our back pocket. Given some unforeseen circumstance, it'd be useful to shuffle the positions. Yeah, it's a specific things, but I feel like it's better to save it and use it when we need it than just blow it to prove Xam was town. Why would Xam be town if not for his power to be useful for us in some capacity? That's my logic.
This is correct. I was planning on bringing it up tomorrow, because I wanted to see how many more people mentioned it. I believe Burb assumed it after I said I did not move that one night, and everyone just took it from there.
For the record, I am ordinary, so I didn't have a huge issue with the assumption, but I do find it strange that it was just assumed based on incomplete information.
If it turns out Time never claimed ordinary. Where did this come from?
Did you extrapolate his claim of not moving N1? That's possible, but you also made an identical claim because you were a power role.
Because he claimed motion tracker that tracked the person that died the night before? On first glance, it's an incredibly convenient claim. The fact that I didn't move really had nothing to do with whether or not I believe TB's claim. At this stage, I do believe him because of multiple days worth of confirmation. His alignment, however, is still undetermined.
What did you make of the claim at the time? Did your lack of motion not affect your thoughts?
Terra isn't confirmed, but I think it's worth mentioning his vote put Wee in the lead on D2. It was arguably the most significant vote that day as it went from the old vote leader, Salva, to Wee.
Well, here's his original claim.
Me and KK were seated next to him. I knew I didn't move, so I didn't really consider that in his claim at all, and he didn't mention it in his original claim anyway. What struck me was that he conveniently was next to KK the night he got attacked. He didn't really need to be the motion detector to know that KK's seat had movement last night.
I guess, looking back, I kind of see your confusion, because he said only ONE person moved last night, so that means he must have KNEW that I did not move that night. But, honestly, I didn't even consider this at first, I was just focused on the detection of KK.
Me and KK were seated next to him. I knew I didn't move, so I didn't really consider that in his claim at all, and he didn't mention it in his original claim anyway. What struck me was that he conveniently was next to KK the night he got attacked. He didn't really need to be the motion detector to know that KK's seat had movement last night.
I guess, looking back, I kind of see your confusion, because he said only ONE person moved last night, so that means he must have KNEW that I did not move that night. But, honestly, I didn't even consider this at first, I was just focused on the detection of KK.
before the day started i got a pm from Retro saying "there was activity in one of the seats around you" a couple of minutes later i got a clarification message saying that i was meant to be a generic message , meaning that there was activity around me. Nothing less and nothing more.
Not any specific post, but I do think I am more actively trying to push for people and hunt for scum compared to Time. Of course, those things are always hard to assess correctly for yourself
There are ways it could have helped us:
-Trying to get better targets around our trackers. Having two ordinary claims next to a tracker would be a good way to test those claims. Even if one of them is scum and would not move deliberately, that would still mean scum would lose a night they could use that power.
- Getting launch to a better table where there are better protect/block targets.
- Removing someone we find scummy from bronx his gossip chat so that they can talk more freely in there.
Of course, this is only useful after a PR claimed so that Xam knows their power, which would also tip off scum so that they can easily counter it. The power would be more useful for a scum Xam that knows his scum buddies powers from the get go.
Just to be clear: this is about what you got in Night 1, right? Not the result from last night?
It is worth remembering that this was well before Launch claimed.
I can maybe see an advantage with the trackers, but if two ordinary town are next to him scum could use a power on one of them to mess up the results.
With Bronx it is still very random and the chances of getting a scummy person after the shuffle is still there.
My thought behind it was that it made the most sense with a power like Launch's, but we didn't know of any power like that back then. None of the claimed powers at the time were table specific IIRC.
Yep, this is the clarification i got after N1
What about last night?
No, but I think it was a very safe bet even at that point that there would be powers that are depended on table, even though none had outed themselves yet.
One thing that does strike me as odd was Xam's reasoning for using his power day 2. He said he thought he was going to die anyway so why not use his power? So basically he used his power just to use it, without knowing if it would benefit or hurt town. I understand the allure of a day time power, but still, it was not acting with towns benefits in mind, which you should always do as a townie, even if you think you will die soon. Then again, this is Xam we are talking about and he tends to do that kind of stuff, even if he is town.
It's debatable how much it would have helped Launch. He would have needed to stay alive after claiming.
Best case scenario would have been if Xam and our pr's could have communicated to each other using Bronx his gossip chat, keeping scum in the dark. From a design standpoint that would be pretty cool power synergy. That would have required us to get very lucky though.