The Artisan
Member
Yeah the show started with the death of Jon Arryn which we learn 3 seasons later that it was Petyr's doing.
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Game of Thrones *NO BOOK DISCUSSION* |OT2| Season 7 - [Read the OP]
- Thread starter Cornballer
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Ocarina_117
Banned
The writers don't know what to do with LF. He's on borrowed time. If he isn't killed off on Sunday he definitely will be early next season.
We never really get to hear what he thinks of the white walker threat. His perspective would be interesting. Same with Varys. They just go along with it.
We never really get to hear what he thinks of the white walker threat. His perspective would be interesting. Same with Varys. They just go along with it.
The only thing that would redeem this whole garbage for me, is after Cersei kills Dany/Jon/their team, Tyrion removes his face mask, turns to the camera to reveal it's been LF this entire time, and then winks at us. The LF in Winterfell is just a plant, which would also explain why he's so stupid all of a sudden.
As much as I would hate this and how it directly contradicts his character development, it IS interesting when Danny tells him that his advice has failed her multiple times in the past.
I hope it comes out that Vary's really is a snake, so that we can get rid of him and put in a better, more reliable Master of Whispers. A Master of Whispers who can listen to the plots pour right out of the plotters own mouths. Arya would make one helluva posting for that job. Utilise her strengths where she excels the best. Time to put these old timers out for retirement.
CGwizz
Member
In the preview we dont see Danny, i think this time Cersei will try something but Danny will be 5 steps foward and outsmart her, i doubt Cercei will die this season ofcourse they will use her in season 8. I predict they will outsmart her, try to judge her for her crimes on the spot and she says the words we all want to listen " TRIAL BY COMBAT "
In the preview we dont see Danny, i think this time Cersei will try something but Danny will be 5 steps foward and outsmart her, i doubt Cercei will die this season ofcourse they will use her in season 8. I predict they will outsmart her, try to judge her for her crimes on the spot and she says the words we all want to listen " TRIAL BY COMBAT "
If Cleganebowl doesn't happen next episode, i will stop watching this show.
Guys, guys... reading this post some of you, think that Arya is a brat and she is complaining because her sister send a letter, etc. And she is annoying. Maybe we are all underestimating her training and all of this is an act, so she can kill LF. Remember Arya is like an actress with her faces. She is misleading both, Sansa (Sister/Ally) and LF (Creep/enemy). Expect the dead of Master Creep (LF) in season finale.
#TeamArya
and
All the Evidence Arya and Sansa Are Plotting Against Littlefinger on Game of Thrones
#TeamArya
and
All the Evidence Arya and Sansa Are Plotting Against Littlefinger on Game of Thrones
This is the team I am on.
Nameless
Member
I can only hope Dany's heel turn is as good as Heshinsi's!
This has been a strange season, though. Spoils of War is probably a top 10 episode for me(even before the battle), and Queen's Justice top 15-20. The characters and world building is what I love most about Thrones/ASOIAF, so I did temper my expectations going into what's essentially Act 3 of the story. Still, the combo of late game story telling which I find less satisfying in pretty much anything, mixed with the general inconsistency and the reduced number of episodes will put S7 down there with S5 for me. Seasons 1-4, and 95% of S6 are all stellar IMO. The show didn't have an outright bad episode until the fifth season which is impressive.
I'd still rather watch Thrones than most things. Let's hope they finish the season off with a bang.
This has been a strange season, though. Spoils of War is probably a top 10 episode for me(even before the battle), and Queen's Justice top 15-20. The characters and world building is what I love most about Thrones/ASOIAF, so I did temper my expectations going into what's essentially Act 3 of the story. Still, the combo of late game story telling which I find less satisfying in pretty much anything, mixed with the general inconsistency and the reduced number of episodes will put S7 down there with S5 for me. Seasons 1-4, and 95% of S6 are all stellar IMO. The show didn't have an outright bad episode until the fifth season which is impressive.
I'd still rather watch Thrones than most things. Let's hope they finish the season off with a bang.
curiouscharles
Member
100% agree.
It was so outlandish a display of in-fighting (and out of the blue), that I can't help but think they were trying to "play act" as though LF's plan was working.
Here's hoping they catch him next episode / notice it working and gut him like a slimey fish.
(Would make perfect sense for him to finally die, his presence through the final season would just be another difficult plot point to settle up).
Megalosaro
Banned
Littlefinger hasn't done anything interesting in a long time. Since Joffrey I guess.
Hopefully he has one last mean punch in him before he goes though.
Hopefully he has one last mean punch in him before he goes though.
If Brienne went south then I can't imagine Dany picking the Hound over the woman who beat the Hound if there was a trial by combat situation.
He killed Lysa.
He killed Lysa.
Littlefinger lost the moment Jon became King of the North. He then lost again when Bran and Arya came back to Winterfell alive. He'll never get the North now and tbh I find his current plan to be pretty poor. All Sansa needs to do is ask the Maester where Arya could have gotten that letter from (as Lady of Winterfell she should know the maester keeps record of important conversation, she actually should have already paid him a visit last ep before rummaging through Arya's room) and his jig is up. He used to be better than this.
Argh, you're still on about that nonsense? And what do you mean my heel turn lol?
Season 7 is magnitudes better than season 5, and it is better in my opinion to Season 2 for everything but the KL plotline. Nothing beats peak Tyrion/Bronn + peak Varys/Littlefinger + not so nutty Cersei/Joff.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
well that might explain why Cersei didn't have him killed when he talked to Jaime... That would be one hell of a twist tbh. It's been the one, jarring constant this season that annoys me. All 3 of the smartest characters in the show don't seem as intelligent/mysterious anymore, with Tyrion being consistently dumb as fuck.
But he did look bumm hurt watching it. Dude, you sailed to Westeros with three dragons, a massive army, and an armada. The fuck did you think was going to happen Tyrion? The Lannisters were the enemy, the Lannisters got fucked after you gave them some freebies, stop crying about it.
You can know it's going to happen and still feel bad about it. I'd be more surprised if he didn't show conflicted emotions.
I think in an intellectual level he understands but he also doesn't enjoy battles or killing people, so all of this is still hard for him to watch directly. He once told the slave masters -
"It always seems a bit abstract, doesn't it, other people dying?"
I think that's something that can also apply to him, too.
That reads like spoiler.
I can buy all those other times Jon puts himself in harm's way. It was reckless, but not completely stupid. This time around it was just stupidity that continued to push him forward. He wasn't going to reach the NK with hordes of wights between him, even though conveniently there was space for the staredown. Everyone was already on the dragon. He could have easily jumped on but chose not to because reasons.
Except when he isn't though eh? He wasn't brooding when he ordered the pyromancers to make wild fire, and he wasn't brooding when he used said wild fire to burn thousands of men alive, and he didn't seem conflicted when he led the charge to circle around and hit Stannis' army from the rear. It just seems weird to me. The only answer is that he doesn't want it happening to his family, which makes Dany's concerns all the more true. Would he be as brooding if this was say Littlefinger's army they had to wrestle the throne from? I don't think he would be.
Nameless
Member
I don't actually think Dany will turn, just talking shit giving you a hard time.
S2 is still my favorite season. It's Dany's 3rd best season so I didn't hate the Qarth stuff, certainly better than Meereen. Stannis' plotline is amazing. The Craster's Keep stuff and Theon in Winterfell were both great up North. Everything involving King's Landing and Arya on the King's Road and at Harrenhal was incredible. And Robb's story had its moments in spite of Robb.
Also, at worse, Blackwater is the second best episode of Thrones ever.
Does he have plot armor? I mean, he's never really in a position where he SHOULD have died, like Bronn vs Drogon.
Except when he isn't though eh? He wasn't brooding when he ordered the pyromancers to make wild fire, and he wasn't brooding when he used said wild fire to burn thousands of men alive, and he didn't seem conflicted when he led the charge to circle around and hit Stannis' army from the rear. It just seems weird to me. The only answer is that he doesn't want it happening to his family, which makes Dany's concerns all the more true. Would he be as brooding if this was say Littlefinger's army they had to wrestle the throne from? I don't think he would be.
Of course it being a Lannister army plays a role into it but I don't think Dany's concerns are valid since he is still helping her, even after he saw that. It makes sense for him to be a bit shocked at "his" people being burned by dragon fire, by means that he helped construct.
You know what, you're right about everything in regards to season 2. I totally blanked on almost everything besides Qarth and KL. But yeah, Robb, Stannis (Mel and her poisoned chalice bit still makes me feel on edge), Arya and Tywin, etc. It definitely is one of the best examples of that story telling over action stuff that we got more of in the early seasons.
What part of it? Seems like some pretty obvious conclusions, if you paid attention during the episodes that is. Which is something I severly doubt many people do after this week's episode.
It really is kind of surprising how much people seem to miss from watching the episode.
Ah thanks. Are there actually mistakes likes this aired? I know people search for these things.
But... Both The Hound and Brienne hate Cercei's guts?
#teamBrienne+HoundVsTheMountain
I think he had the hope that a massive demonstration of power (Seeing the assembled armies of Dorne, Tyrells, Dothrakis, Unsullied and the North at KL's doors, alongside 3 dragons) would have pushed Cercei/ Jaime to surrender without blood being spilled.
But that was a delusion from the get go.
Even taking Casterly Rock... I am 100% sure he knew there were no riches there (he was master of coin for a while, and tried to negociate their debts).
I think he thought of it as a demonstration of power, taking down the bulk of the Lannister army with minimal to no civiliam casualty.
I meant valid from her perspective. We know what Tyrion is all about, but it's hard to also not see where her criticism stems from. I just don't understand what his plans were if his original method of fighting Cersei failed. He mentioned to Dany that he'd order KL burned to the ground if she's touched, so it's not like he's above doing worse than just hitting the Red Keep like Dany wanted.
Nameless
Member
It wasn't a prediction but I through out the possibility of Tyrion working against Dany in the old thread. It would be a hilarious if he's conspiring with his siblings at this "meeting". It's not implausible that he and Cersei could get back to a place of tolerance now that she knows he didn't murder Joffrey...maybe.. possibly. Honestly I just need more Cersei/Tyrion scenes. They were such an amazing pairing chemistry wise.
The whole Dany/Tyrion dynamic makes almost no sense to me. The show has done a really fucking poor job with those characters. You only get the impression they're together because fans love Dany and fans love Tyrion. That's really it. Technically there should be some reasons they'd work well together, but the show doesn't really show those.
Tyrion has fucked up almost every decision since he met Dany. Why exactly does she trust his council still? Even she keeps saying he's fucked up. Why is he there?
And then on the flip side, the show hasn't really portrayed Tyrion actually starting to believe in Dany and why he does. He says he does this season. Hell everyone says they believe so much in Dany... and then they secretly have conversations about how she might become a mad queen. It doesn't make sense.
We needed more development between these characters where Dany shows Tyrion why he should believe in her so much and Tyrion actually does some good. The season where Dany's off and Tyrion's in charge should have cemented Tyrion as needed help, but he kinda bumbled along and fucked things up possibly just because they wanted some dragon action at the end of the season. And Dany's always going against Tyrion's advice now, too.
DarkJediKnight
Member
Can someone refresh my memory: who orchestrated the Lannisters and Tyrell army coming together for King's Landing defense?
I know Tywin charges in but was it Littlefinger who told Margery to unite houses so she can be The Queen?
I know Tywin charges in but was it Littlefinger who told Margery to unite houses so she can be The Queen?
Yep, Littlefinger. They gave him Harrenhal for his work, and then later sent him to bring the Vale back into the fold.
His general tone during the scene was not to aggressively attack. He insisted that they stick to his plan throughout the whole thing, saying he underestimated his enemies, which Dany immediately calls him out on. His plan is so obviously bad and not working, but he wanted them to stick to it, if he had his way, they would not have flown to attack the loot train.
It reads more like wishful thinking. I recall people saying Arya getting stabbed by the Waif was a fake out, and she wasn't bleeding out and begging for help around the city sincerely and that it was all a plan.
Arya learned how to be stealthy and how to kill people, she didn't get any smarter.
DarkJediKnight
Member
That's right. I remember now.
Nah, he didn't want her to attack the Red Keep because of the many innocents who could die as collateral damage. He never showed any signs of being against her attacking a military target where no civilians were around.
True, he told her to order the Unsullied to march back (through enemy territory no less), and together with the Dothraki they would...HAHAHA!...oh I'm sorry, I just need a moment to compose myself....together with the Dothraki they would block...HAHAHA!...I can't this so fucking stupid. The Dothraki (a pure light armoured cavalry unit) and an exhausted Unsullied are going to blockade King's Landing? Are you fucking high Tyrion?
Far less innocent people would have died in comparison to those who lost their lives when the capital of the Reach was sacked and pillaged.
I think the writers have no idea how to write Tyrion, or possibly no respect for him. Season 2 Tyrion is god-tier and fiercely intelligent. I know half of it was this untouchable bravado of being Tywin's son working from the inside, but there's rarely a hint of that left. It all sort of died after he left KL.
And his 2nd stint as hand is taking a shit on the legacy of his first.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
The script leaked months ago. News organizations and blogs and youtubers are all just going off the leaked script
Watch the scene again.
Tyrion: We still have enough ships to carry the Dothraki to the mainland. Commit to the blockade of King's Landing. We have a plan, it's still the right plan.
Dany: The right plan! Your strategy has lost us Dorne, the Iron Islands, and the Reach!
Tyrion KNOWS that, but he insists on sticking to it! And you're saying he's cool with attacking military targets, but it sounds like he isn't, and his reaction to Dany doing just that was to frown and walk around the battlefield like Charlie Brown after a bad day.
He isn't explicitly against saying "don't attack military enemies", but he's insisting on a terrible strategies that get his own men killed. Dany had to be the one to take action and attack the loot train, when it should have been Tyrion advising her to do that as her hand. But what does Dany get instead?
"We have a plan, it's the right plan."
No it isn't Tyrion, and I think you it isn't too.
NintendosBooger
Member
Tyrion isn't a war-time adviser.
His one great military achievement was genius married with an incredible amount of luck. The man has been so institutionalized by royalty and a lifetime of easy-living speckled with some hardship here and there in his exile from Westeros that all of this fighting unsettles him. Dany shouldn't be taking any military advice from him...not at this juncture. He'd make a proper Hand once everything settles down and the country is brought to order after which his familiarity with each of the Houses would serve her well.
His one great military achievement was genius married with an incredible amount of luck. The man has been so institutionalized by royalty and a lifetime of easy-living speckled with some hardship here and there in his exile from Westeros that all of this fighting unsettles him. Dany shouldn't be taking any military advice from him...not at this juncture. He'd make a proper Hand once everything settles down and the country is brought to order after which his familiarity with each of the Houses would serve her well.
I am also team Arya, but I think this aticle might have been written by someone who also thought there was a traitor in Dany's camp. Sometimes things are just what they appear to be.
DarkJediKnight
Member
Here's the thing that really bothers me: Sansa knows LF had Jon Arryn killed.
Why? He was an old man and likely would have died in a few years. Moreover, if LF wanted Lysa so badly why didn't he go to her?
The only thing I believe from LF is that he loved Cat. So Sansa should have put it together that LF knows that if the hand died, Robert would trust no one else but Ned.
He wanted Ned out of the picture so he can get Cat somehow. Cat was supposed to live in Kings Landing as the hand's wife. But Jaime pushing bran made cat stay in Winterfell longer.
Sansa should know that if not for LF her father would be alive. That alone should be reason to kill him.
And basically tells her by the God'swood that his end game is to see him on the Iron Throne and Sansa beside him.
I'm soiling to bet Sansa has kept LF alive because she wants to see who's left from the war so they can both maneuver to take the throne together.
Why? He was an old man and likely would have died in a few years. Moreover, if LF wanted Lysa so badly why didn't he go to her?
The only thing I believe from LF is that he loved Cat. So Sansa should have put it together that LF knows that if the hand died, Robert would trust no one else but Ned.
He wanted Ned out of the picture so he can get Cat somehow. Cat was supposed to live in Kings Landing as the hand's wife. But Jaime pushing bran made cat stay in Winterfell longer.
Sansa should know that if not for LF her father would be alive. That alone should be reason to kill him.
And basically tells her by the God'swood that his end game is to see him on the Iron Throne and Sansa beside him.
I'm soiling to bet Sansa has kept LF alive because she wants to see who's left from the war so they can both maneuver to take the throne together.