Game of Thrones *NO BOOK SPOILERS* |OT| Season 3 - Sundays on HBO [Read the OP]

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A common saying, but not their official house words (similar to how the Lannister's house words are not "A Lannister always pays his debts").

I know that, that's why I said it was associated with their house. It's what people know as their house words but that's not what they are. Like in Bran's scene with Luwin. I was told their real words are "our swords are sharp," and the Lannisters are "hear me roar"
 
He actually wasn't HONORABLE ENOUGH!

Rob said "Fuck everything, REVENGE! Home-land just got ran over?!? Keep moving forward!"

He also said ... "Ooook, I'm gonna wife one of your girls if you help me. Deal?!
... Ooook, nope, not gonna do that. Gonna wife this random ass that fell in my lap ... fuck you and yo deal! BUUUUT you can have my Uncle! Ok?! I fucked you over but it's OK!!!"

He also said ... "You mofos gonna die for killing these boys as a reasult of me and my mom fucking around on the Jamie problem! Fuck yo revenge and pain, MY revenge is all that matters! Oh? You all were just following orders from your leader? YOU DIE TO! >:["

Starks don't play to honorable for the game ... they play too dumb and short sighted. You win the Game by being the smartest and most cunning ... not with evil or good acts.

Rob made his own grave and now he's been put in it.

As much as I hate to admit it this is pretty much spot on. Dude made some poor choices that got him got.
 
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the best one after 'one does not simply warg into hordor'
 
I think the leeches are just a red herring (not sure if right term), it seems like it was just a show for Davos and Stannis to make them believe in the God of Light.
Ok... so...

I understand correlation != causation as a scientific and logical concept.

But... why on earth would anyone introduce that as a literary concept in a world that has magic and shit? There's no point to that unless you just wanted to show that Mellisandre was into kinky shit (and has a great ass... and Stannis was all up it. pachino.gif) and a decent guesser.
 
Melisandre just seems part legit, part charlatan, and always highly manipulative. Stannis knows she squeezed out a shadow assassin so he's ready to believe anything, and she's aware of that. Her otherwise serene, controlled facade broke a bit when she seemed so genuinely shocked by Thoros' power of resurrection, almost like a card magician coming across a wizard.
 
I don't believe the leeches and Rob are happy coincidences. We've had two strong proofs that the god works. The nasty revivals and shadow baby of hell.
Everyone dies, the curse just speeds it up. Although, as of now, Joffrey and Balon are pretty 'safe' in terms of environmental complications.

Two questions:

What was the name of Jaqen's crew-thing again, and did he tell if he has any god inclination?
 
I'm saying what other people are saying. Go ahead, ignore me; that just means I won't have to see you're ridiculous freak-outs every time I post.

And no, I don't know. Power in a kings blood, one king down but it's been set up for a long time, who's to say how much weight the magic played, if any? This is not as apparent as a shadow dude stabbing Renly.

Regardless if you know or not, the fact that you've read the book and it's common knowledge that you've read the book means that to a lot of people your speculation or confirmations becomes fact and then is perceived as a spoiler even if it isn't and also makes people feel like that line of speculation isn't worth discussing any more, even if what you said isn't a major plot point. They don't know if it's a major plot point or not because they don't have the benefit of hindsight. It's better to say nothing or post in the other threads.
 
So did the dick blood leech burning influence Robb's death in a detectable way? Seems like things would've went down the way they did regardless.

No, not really any proof for it, but its the only recent event I can think of that could shift the balance to the Lannister's disadvantage (by killing Joffrey as well) before the season ends. That's my speculation for the final episode, something has to happen imo... If only not to leave fans totally devastated lol
 
I was actually reading online about the time before and during Robert's rebellion, and that alone formulated a theory about Jon Snow for me. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems all too obvious. It's too late... I cannot unthink it.
 
Oh man, all I can think about now is wondering how Arya and Sansa will react once they have time to fully process what happened. I can't imagine that Sansa will continue fake-accepting everything that's going on.

I can imagine these events crafting the two of them into becoming two of the most dangerous and callous killers in the series. Fuck honor and properness at this point.


Also, I'm really glad that Jon didn't keep up his charade with the wildlings. His freedom (at least as I see it) happened a lot quicker than I expected it to.

Arya maybe, she's still got that coin from Jaqen after all and the only reason she didn't go with him in the first place is because she wanted to find her mother and brother. Nothing keeping her from running off now.

Can't see Sansa doing anything apart from her usual useless self though.
 
It could even be something where the writer changes his mind just to mess with the internet speculators.

GRRM has stated numerous times that he would never, ever do this. He said he specifically avoids reading comment boards, he does not listen to fan suggestions, and he dislikes fan fiction.
 
Arya maybe, she's still got that coin from Jaqen after all and the only reason she didn't go with him in the first place is because she wanted to find her mother and brother. Nothing keeping her from running off now.

Can't see Sansa doing anything apart from her usual useless self though.

totally read that in the vine gif voice she posted
 
Just rewatching Season 1 - god I think it's so much better. Tyrion is legit hilarious, the story is so much tighter. I dunno man. Hopefully it gets tighter again in S4.
 
Regardless if you know or not, the fact that you've read the book and it's common knowledge that you've read the book means that to a lot of people your speculation or confirmations becomes fact and then is perceived as a spoiler even if it isn't and also makes people feel like that line of speculation isn't worth discussing any more, even if what you said isn't a major plot point. They don't know if it's a major plot point or not because they don't have the benefit of hindsight. It's better to say nothing or post in the other threads.
I get that, but people need to calm down a bit. Not everyone is out to spoil your fun. Since my name is not George R.R. Martin or David Benioff or D.B. Weiss, I can't tell you everything. I am not omniscient. I'm being sincere here, we don't know how much weight Melisandre had in the events of the Red Wedding. It's impossible to separate all the causes leading up to that effect and assign weights to them. We would need something more simple, like a leech burns and the dude has a sudden heart attack on the street (lol Death Note.)

I don't believe the leeches and Rob are happy coincidences. We've had two strong proofs that the god works. The nasty revivals and shadow baby of hell.
Everyone dies, the curse just speeds it up. Although, as of now, Joffrey and Balon are pretty 'safe' in terms of environmental complications.

Two questions:

What was the name of Jaqen's crew-thing again, and did he tell if he has any god inclination?
Faceless Men
 
On a completely different note:

Cersei's kids. Everybody likes the two small ones right, including Tyrion?
When Tyrion was hand of the king he only used wedding-her-of as a scheme to find out who in the council was Cerceis's spy. So if he faked the other two wedding plans like lol - jk, why did he go through with the third one and actually sent the kid of to exile/live with their enemies? Why not just call it off?
 
i really fear for jorah man. before the episode aired i wasn't spoiled or anything (which is an amazing feat in itself) but i knew some shit would go down as it always does in episode 9 from what we've seen before, so i was expecting character deaths and stuff.

and when they were all fighting, daario looked slick swinging that sword around, grey worm looked like a cold methodical killer, but jorah, whilst skillfull looked TERRIFIED lmao.

maybe its because although good with a sword, he's obviously been trained back across the sea where everyone fought predictably, but these crazy slavers are jmping around and using these weird ass weapons.

i was constantly shitting myself every time someone came at him hahaha, i love his character man, i really hope he doesn't bite it. i'm scared though cause this new smug daario guy is on the scene (HATE HIM lol) and other than his loyalty, and his wisdom, he's pretty much useless to dany now.

also the thing that destroyed me the most about the last scene, wasn't rob's death (thought he'd been a fool all season, and wasn't fit to tie ned's shoelaces), or even his wife's death (as brutal as it was she hasn't been around enough for me to get emotionally invested in), but catelyn's death.

after ned's death, her children missing, hearing of winterfell burning, seeing her son's wife brutally murdered, and her son killed infront of her, then to top it off she had her throat slit. omg what a hard, hard life. probably the most tragic character. dem feels man.

i try to not get emotional and get by thinking that it was best for her to die because who could live for long after seeing all that shit? makes me angry at rob as well, fucking idiot kid king.
 
Just rewatching Season 1 - god I think it's so much better. Tyrion is legit hilarious, the story is so much tighter. I dunno man. Hopefully it gets tighter again in S4.

I'm not sure I would call Season 3 better than Season 1 (IMO), but the structure is different.

The advantage Season 1 has is a more focused plot.

The advantage Season 3 has is that at this point you've already become so invested in the characters and we care even more about their fates.

But also, Season 1 is WAY BETTER after having watched Season 3.

After Season 4, Season 3 will probably seem even better.

I think Game of Thrones may be one of the only shows ever that is actually better during a second watching - because instead of just wanting to rush through all the slow stuff to see what major event happens next, you actually appreciate all the nuances, intricacies, clues and details of the world.
 
Arya maybe, she's still got that coin from Jaqen after all and the only reason she didn't go with him in the first place is because she wanted to find her mother and brother. Nothing keeping her from running off now.

Can't see Sansa doing anything apart from her usual useless self though.

I don't know. Every episode where more shit happens, Sansa seems closer and closer to breaking completely. I can't imagine her staying the same forever. At least, I hope not.
 
I'm not sure I would call Season 3 better than Season 1 (IMO), but the structure is different.

The advantage Season 1 has is a more focused plot.

The advantage Season 3 has is that at this point you've already become so invested in the characters and we care even more about their fates.

But also, Season 1 is WAY BETTER after having watched Season 3.

After Season 4, Season 3 will probably seem even better.

I think Game of Thrones may be one of the only shows ever that is actually better during a second watching - because instead of just wanting to rush through all the slow stuff to see what major event happens next, you actually appreciate all the nuances, intricacies, clues and details of the world.

You have a point, S3 is definitely better than 2 though. In 2 the only things I really liked were the Tywin/Arya scenes (any Tywin scene) and Blackwater. I could be missing a couple of things but it was definitely weaker.

I forgot how much I like the Jon Snow 'boot camp' part in S1 as well, when the hell is that grumpy old guy coming back?
 
I'm not sure I would call Season 3 better than Season 1 (IMO), but the structure is different.

The advantage Season 1 has is a more focused plot.

The advantage Season 3 has is that at this point you've already become so invested in the characters and we care even more about their fates.

But also, Season 1 is WAY BETTER after having watched Season 3.

After Season 4, Season 3 will probably seem even better.

I think Game of Thrones may be one of the only shows ever that is actually better during a second watching - because instead of just wanting to rush through all the slow stuff to see what major event happens next, you actually appreciate all the nuances, intricacies, clues and details of the world.

Absolutely. The rewatch of Season 1 was phenomenal because knowing what happened to Ned allowed for all of those little cues about what was occurring around him to become even more significant.
 
You have a point, S3 is definitely better than 2 though. In 2 the only things I really liked were the Tywin/Arya scenes (any Tywin scene) and Blackwater. I could be missing a couple of things but it was definitely weaker.

For my money I enjoy pretty much every episode of Game of Thrones, but as far as Season 2 highlights...

I thought Season 2 had a lot of great things besides Tywin/Arya and Blackwater.

Like...

-All of Tyrion's shenanigans as Hand of the King
-Joffrey's vileness
-Theon's entire plot strand (@Iron Islands and @Winterfell)

Amongst other things.
 
Ok... so...

I understand correlation != causation as a scientific and logical concept.

But... why on earth would anyone introduce that as a literary concept in a world that has magic and shit? There's no point to that unless you just wanted to show that Mellisandre was into kinky shit (and has a great ass... and Stannis was all up it. pachino.gif) and a decent guesser.

I'm not sure, I'm just refusing to believe that Robb died due to Melisandre and Stannis killing a few leeches.

The point was (will be?) that now that Robb is dead, Stannis, and importantly Davos, will believe in the power of the Lord of Light. I think Melisandre said to the priest that they came over to make people renounce the old gods, and worship the 'one true god'.

What Melisandre has done is very much like mediums and people who claim they can talk to the dead. It's no surprise that during a war, one of the people that wanted the Iron Throne has died, therefore that will validate her claim about the Red God.

When in fact, I don't believe that the burning of the leeches led to Robb's death, it was just a coincidence.

I'm not sure I'm articulating myself well.

Pretty sure it's just Stannis, Gendry (technically) & the 3 amigos in the tubes.

Christ I laughed at that. And it also made me sad, they introduced Shireen and we haven't learned anything about her since. Why is her face marked?
 
I'm not sure, I'm just refusing to believe that Robb died due to Melisandre and Stannis killing a few leeches.

The point was (will be?) that now that Robb is dead, Stannis, and importantly Davos, will believe in the power of the Lord of Light. I think Melisandre said to the priest that they came over to make people renounce the old gods, and worship the 'one true god'.

What Melisandre has done is very much like mediums and people who claim they can talk to the dead. It's no surprise that during a war, one of the people that wanted the Iron Throne has died, therefore that will validate her claim about the Red God.

When in fact, I don't believe that the burning of the leeches led to Robb's death, it was just a coincidence.

I'm not sure I'm articulating myself well.

One thing though - Considering Davos already witnessed the birth of a freakin' vag monster and remains uncoverted, I don't see why he would suddenly become a supporter of the Lord of Light now.

The way I see it...

Stannis - A skeptical man who believes what he sees. He believes in the Lord of Light because he has seen his power for himself. But he is still only using Melisandre for himself, and grudgingly accepts the religious fanaticism around him.

Davos - I think he believes the Lord of Light is an evil to be weary of, and wants to steer Stannis away from the faith.

Melisandre - The embodiment of absolute intolerance - all of those who do not bow before the Lord of Light are enemies.

It'll be interesting to see how this trio progresses going forward.
 
I don't know. Every episode where more shit happens, Sansa seems closer and closer to breaking completely. I can't imagine her staying the same forever. At least, I hope not.

Yeah but breaking doesn't necessarily mean she's going around killing people. Arya's got all her bottled up hatred, a brave heart and a free ticket to the Assassin's guild; Sansa has...
 
One thing though - Considering Davos already witnessed the birth of a freakin' vag monster and remains uncoverted, I don't see why he would suddenly become a supporter of the Lord of Light now.

i don't think it's that davos doesn't believe in the lord of light, he's witnessed his power. i think it's that davos is a good honourable man and he thinks the lord of light is brutal and evil and doesn't wish to follow him/it.

and im inclined to agree with him tbh. it's not like melisandre gave birth to a golden angel, it was a fucking evil shadowy monstrosity.

edit: ah didn't see your edit, haha we're on the same wavelength
 
One thing though - Considering Davos already witnessed the birth of a freakin' vag monster and remains uncoverted, I don't see why he would suddenly become a supporter of the Lord of Light now.

Yes, but perhaps he might start believing a little. His main gripe with Melisandre was that she was burning heretics, maybe she wanted him to see that she doesn't just burn people and (now) her predictions come true.

She said to Davos that if she had been on the ship, she could have saved his son at Blackwater, perhaps he will start doubting his previous choice if there is some proof of her power. (Though he saw the shadow baby so there is proof, I just don't think he likes how evil it all is).
 
Yeah but breaking doesn't necessarily mean she's going around killing people. Arya's got all her bottled up hatred, a brave heart and a free ticket to the Assassin's guild; Sansa has...

The only thing I can think is that Sansa is closest in proximity to the people she hates the most. So while she doesn't necessarily need badass skills to do anything, it'll be much easier for her to be close to someone she wants to do something to.
 
One thing though - Considering Davos already witnessed the birth of a freakin' vag monster and remains uncoverted, I don't see why he would suddenly become a supporter of the Lord of Light now.

He's not unconverted so much as "This is a REALLY REALLY BAD IDEA."

You can believe in God and magic and miracles and still think it's a bad idea to join the religion. People do this daily in the real world.
 
Yeah but breaking doesn't necessarily mean she's going around killing people. Arya's got all her bottled up hatred, a brave heart and a free ticket to the Assassin's guild; Sansa has...

Arya's revenge arc is more obvious right now, but I adamantly believe (or at least hope) that Sansa will find one as well.

I think the perfect story arc for Sansa would be moving from a pawn to a player in the Game of Thrones.

But if that happens it's still a long way off...
 
He's not unconverted so much as "This is a REALLY REALLY BAD IDEA."

You can believe in God and magic and miracles and still think it's a bad idea to join the religion. People do this daily in the real world.

There's a difference between 'unconverted' and 'not believing'.

Davos obviously believes the Lord of Light's power because he saw it with his own eyes.

I'm saying he's 'unconverted' because he doesn't let the Lord of Light into his heart.
 
Arya's revenge arc is more obvious right now, but I adamantly believe (or at least hope) that Sansa will find one as well.

I think the perfect story arc for Sansa would be moving from a pawn to a player in the Game of Thrones.

But if that happens it's still a long way off...

I imagine Sansa's closet enemy is Joffrey. He was brutal to her in the first two seasons, and recently threatened to rape her so he will have his child.

If he goes through with the rape threat, Sansa, Tyrion and (possibly) Shae would all want him dead(er).
 
Arya's revenge arc is more obvious right now, but I adamantly believe (or at least hope) that Sansa will find one as well.

I think the perfect story arc for Sansa would be moving from a pawn to a player in the Game of Thrones.

But if that happens it's still a long way off...

Oh yeah I'm sure she'll go through some major character development at some point but it'll definitely be of a political nature rather than getting down and killing people ala Arya.
 
There's a difference between 'unconverted' and 'not believing'.

Davos obviously believes the Lord of Light's power because he saw it with his own eyes.

I'm saying he's 'unconverted' because he doesn't let the Lord of Light into his heart.

Well, he's seen Melisandrie do:

1. Kill heretics by fire, aka people who disagree.
2. Give birth to a shadow demon assassin that killed Renly.
3. Torture an innocent boy (well he's like 17-18 but whatever).
4. And generally corrupt Stannis to break his marriage vows. After everyone talking about how horrible and stupid Robb was for doing the same thing, you'd think Stannis would be viewed the same.



Would YOU join a religion that did all that, even if the God was "real"?
 
Stannis had better come around on killing Gendry. Hell, how many Baratheon males are even left?

i don't understand why he wanted to in the first place. as i understand it from jon snow's story, bastards don't have a right to the throne. so why would stannis see gendry as a threat? i'm sure stannis still pips gendry to the throne as he's a bastard.

if anything, because gendry is robert's bastard son and therefore a half-baratheon, he'll be more inclined to be loyal to stannis in his quest to be the king as he's part of the family, and will be a great solider and maybe even a great right hand man. boy makes some good steel as well. plus keep him around for his royal blood if this leech thing is really legit.
 
One thing though - Considering Davos already witnessed the birth of a freakin' vag monster and remains uncoverted, I don't see why he would suddenly become a supporter of the Lord of Light now.

The way I see it...

Stannis - A skeptical man who believes what he sees. He believes in the Lord of Light because he has seen his power for himself. But he is still only using Melisandre for himself, and grudgingly accepts the religious fanaticism around him.

Davos - I think he believes the Lord of Light is an evil to be weary of, and wants to steer Stannis away from the faith.

Melisandre - The embodiment of absolute intolerance - all of those who do not bow before the Lord of Light are enemies.

It'll be interesting to see how this trio progresses going forward.
The weird thing about Melisandre is that it's kind of hard to fault her for being so intolerant. From her perspective, all these people pray to these poser gods who never do anything for anyone. It's like she believes that they are being willfully ignorant of what's right in front of them. I mean there are people like that in real life, but the difference that makes it somewhat hard to get mad at her is that she has tangible acts to back it up. In a world where people thought magic was gone, a goddamn shadow demon bursts from her vagina and kills someone. If they believe magic doesn't exist anymore, what other explanation could they come up with for those kind of powers?
 
I imagine Sansa's closet enemy is Joffrey. He was brutal to her in the first two seasons, and recently threatened to rape her so he will have his child.

If he goes through with the rape threat, Sansa, Tyrion and (possibly) Shae would all want him dead(er).

I just think it would be so beautiful if in like the final season or something Sansa tricks / outwits the Lannisters.
 
Well, he's seen Melisandrie do:

1. Kill heretics by fire, aka people who disagree.
2. Give birth to a shadow demon assassin that killed Renly.
3. Torture an innocent boy (well he's like 17-18 but whatever).
4. And generally corrupt Stannis to break his marriage vows. After everyone talking about how horrible and stupid Robb was for doing the same thing, you'd think Stannis would be viewed the same.



Would YOU join a religion that did all that, even if the God was "real"?

No!

I'm pretty sure we're saying the same things dude. :P
 
Oh yeah I'm sure she'll go through some major character development at some point but it'll definitely be of a political nature rather than getting down and killing people ala Arya.

Exactly.

The way I see it, Arya's revenge arc is as a warrior, but Sansa's would have to be with her words.
 
I just think it would be so beautiful if in like the final season or something Sansa tricks / outwits the Lannisters.
It would be wonderful seeing as they all think she is just a dumb captive. Though I'm sure Tyrion said in the second season that Sansa would 'survive them yet' or something. Sansa is naive but damn, she would have push Joffrey off the wall of spiked heads in season one, but The Hound stopped her.

And we know Shae can handle herself, maybe she'll teach Sansa how to defend herself. But I think Sansa will use her naivety to her advantage and just plain outsmart them.
 
i'm really interested to see what littlefinger does now. he loved catelyn, and with ned dead probably thought he could worm his way in with her with time, was obviously trying to reunite sansa with her to win her heart.

he's gonna be absolutely furious, and he has some serious pull inside kings landing, so i'd be shitting it if i was on the wrong side of him right about now.
 
The weird thing about Melisandre is that it's kind of hard to fault her for being so intolerant. From her perspective, all these people pray to these poser gods who never do anything for anyone. It's like she believes that they are being willfully ignorant of what's right in front of them. I mean there are people like that in real life, but the difference that makes it somewhat hard to get mad at her is that she has tangible acts to back it up. In a world where people thought magic was gone, a goddamn shadow demon bursts from her vagina and kills someone. If they believe magic doesn't exist anymore, what other explanation could they come up with for those kind of powers?

I agree. That's one of the things I love about this story.

Pretty much every character has legitimate reasons for doing the things they do (while recognizing that some characters like Joffrey and Theons' torturer are simply sadistic).

Even with Walder Frey and Roose Bolton...

Sure, they might be evil bastards, but on the other hand...

If they didn't do what they did, what were they going to do instead? Continuing fighting the Lannisters until their entire House was in ruins? Walder Frey sacrificed a lot to make his daughter a Queen, and Robb threw his sacrifice in his face. (okay, so Walder Frey doesn't actually give an F about the well being of even his own kin, but still)

Sure, they're bad dudes, but there's still legit reasons for their actions.

I think it's the same with Melisandre. I'm sure she sees herself as truly fighting for the side of Good. Much like how a terrorist believes the same. The question is whether or not the things she does are actually leading to the greater good.
 
i'm really interested to see what littlefinger does now. he loved catelyn, and with ned dead probably thought he could worm his way in with her with time, was obviously trying to reunite sansa with her to win her heart.

he's gonna be absolutely furious, and he has some serious pull inside kings landing, so i'd be shitting it if i was on the wrong side of him right about now.

Yeah, Littlefinger was definitely in love with Catelyn... His reaction / response should be interesting indeed.
 
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