I actually never thought about that. Maybe I will come to peace with it. So far, this is one of the only things in ASOIAF that really bothers me. Right now it's just one chapter, I will have to see how it all works out..
(Huge ASOS) I'm still reading AFFC so I'm only speaking from
the epilogue, but UnCat wasn't even out of the realm of possibilities and, although it comes as a shocking reveal, the book establishes more than once that zombie shit is happening all the time with Beric. He dies and is brought back to life several times. Cat only looks like a zombie because they screwed with her so much in the Red Wedding. It's not out of nowhere and in the overall scheme of things it's definitely less "dumb" than the shadow assassin, because from the very first chapter the series tells you there's undead stuff at play in this world.
I just always thought it was kind of exclusive to Beric. But as I said, I already didn't like it during the brotherhood-storyline. But I don't want to be too fast to judge. I'm waiting for a positive surprise!
UnCat. I thought her reveal in the epilogue was one of the best moments in the series. Top 5, easily. I think it's just the same people who hated Cat before hate her now. I always liked her for the most part, so I loved that development.
I love Cat and find her incredibly sympathetic. She makes stupid decisions, but it is out of blind love for her children. I dislike that moment because i loved her character.
re Rez [series]
[series]
Connection to wights. I think it's obvious for me as a reader that this has become about two things. One, the resurgence of the fire dragons from the East - Essos - which brings back the fire-and-light related magic. We see the personification in Melisandre. And the second is the resurgence of ice dragons from the West - Westeros - or Northwest anyway, which finds its personification in the wights and the things waking in the night and the green seers/children of the forest. This is why Melisandre seems diametrically opposed to all that is north of the wall, and why she thinks it is so important to be at the Wall and fight what is coming. It's almost literally Ice God vs. Fire God. As such, I can't imagine Berric's fire God related resurgence can be related to the ice god related resurgence, except in that it's all about dragons.
I'd of liked that moment more if they gave that particular character more book time after that happened. They've kept that character kind of in the dark since then. Next book I guess.
Well technically it's my 'theory', and much of it comes from books prior to ADWD, so you're not going to finish ADWD and get any more facts related to it... at least, not many more.
[series]
It's simply what makes sense given what is happening, the title of the book, the actions Melisandre has taken and Bran has gone to, and the type of magic that is coming out and where. The magic north of the wall is very specific, and it is quite distinct from the magic of the red god. We know the magic of the red god is being fueled by the resurgence of dragons. We know Melisandre is threatened by what is going on north of the wall, so much so that she convinces Stannis to go there to protect the realm. If Melisandre is a representation of the fire god, then what is going on north of the wall? Well, the resurgence of the ice god, or dragons rather, and all the unique magic that this implies. The wights, the green seers and children of forest reappearing, this is all related to the magic of the ice dragons. It's also curious that it is said that the Wall is imbued with magic which prevents what is north of the wall from going any further. And we have seen little ice related magic south of the wall. So when the wall comes down, if it comes down, we're going to see the encroachment of ice magic into the world at large... or at least into all of Westeros. The song of Ice and Fire; Fire from Essos, Ice from Westeros. Fire Dragons from the East, Ice Dragons from the West. Also related to the seasons: Summer being the season of Fire Dragons, Winter being the season of Ice Dragons, and the variable length being explained by some detail about how dragons impact the world that we're not privy to yet. It is said when there is a long summer there tends to also be a long winter, so I suspect the appearance of ice/fire dragons are interrelated.
There are about a million incidental details to corroborate elements of the theory, but it seems pretty clear to me at this point. As I watch the show, I am becoming even more confident in all this.
I just always thought it was kind of exclusive to Beric. But as I said, I already didn't like it during the brotherhood-storyline. But I don't want to be too fast to judge. I'm waiting for a positive surprise!
To be honest, I'm not so fond of this particular approach either. Like you, I'm open to where Martin takes it. As I see it, it makes sense in the world he built but it's the sort of device that heavily depends on the execution for it to work well.
I'd of liked that moment more if they gave that particular character more book time after that happened. They've kept that character kind of in the dark since then. Next book I guess.
the purpose of UnCat is to deliver revenge on those who wronged the Starks. So, since the story hasn't yet come to the point where Starks get major revenge, it makes sense that she hasn't been featured too prominently. However, I would bet on her doing some more major stuff in the next book for two reasons: both Jaime and Brienne, two POV characters, are now with her, and the original title for the book was going to be A Time for Wolves, so I think it's starting to become time for some major Stark Revenge. Winter has come, and I can't see it being kind to any of those who wronged the Starks.
Also (ASOS)
I never had a problem with Beric and Cat being revived. I mean, that ability, in some form or another, has been present since the prologue of the entire series. If characters started regularly being revived, I could see it becoming a problem to some, but we really just have Beric, who's dead-dead now (showing limitations on this magic) and Cat.
Was the upcoming attack too telegraphed? I know the dreams were in the book too but I was really shocked in the book when Theon smiled and calmly said Its not Torrhens Square I mean to take. If that moment already happened in the Pyke scene, then that's really lame, because this line was a great way to reveal it.
A big part of why the dreams in the book did not spoil what was going to happen in my opinion is because in the dreams Bran and Rickon were dead. That made it harder to buy. Why did they leave that part out? In the show, why would anyone not believe now that the ironmen will attack and kill Sir Rodrik?
Also, Reek absolutely has to be in it. No one else destroying Winterfell works. Theon wouldn't do it because he'd rather rule. His men couldn't do it for so many different reasons. One of which is where would they capture Theon and take him afterwards? Back to Pyke? WTF? Another is, how could his sister visit Theon and not be able to save him? How could they still have the impending doom for Theon and his stubbornness not to leave?
So far the way the show has handled Theon has been maybe the best surprise and best part of the season but I'm worried about where they're going to go with him from here.
By the way, am I the only one who thinks that Stannis and especially Davos got way too less screentime in this season? I mean, Davos' background story about his nickname being "Onion Knight" was just explained in episode 4 and not even very detailed. To understand his character, one would have to listen REALLY carefully in every episode. They could have elaborated on that much more, imo.
He also doesn't seem "simple" enough. He's a bit too classy.
By the way, am I the only one who thinks that Stannis and especially Davos got way too less screentime in this season? I mean, Davos' background story about his nickname being "Onion Knight" was just explained in episode 4 and not even very detailed. To understand his character, one would have to listen REALLY carefully in every episode. They could have elaborated on that much more, imo.
He also doesn't seem "simple" enough. He's a bit too classy.
The book has a lot of flashbacks and references to history that just never happen in the show. They've done an alright job with Davos but I had to explain to my grandmother exactly why he was called the Onion Knight and all that.
Well technically it's my 'theory', and much of it comes from books prior to ADWD, so you're not going to finish ADWD and get any more facts related to it... at least, not many more.
[series]
It's simply what makes sense given what is happening, the title of the book, the actions Melisandre has taken and Bran has gone to, and the type of magic that is coming out and where. The magic north of the wall is very specific, and it is quite distinct from the magic of the red god. We know the magic of the red god is being fueled by the resurgence of dragons. We know Melisandre is threatened by what is going on north of the wall, so much so that she convinces Stannis to go there to protect the realm. If Melisandre is a representation of the fire god, then what is going on north of the wall? Well, the resurgence of the ice god, or dragons rather, and all the unique magic that this implies. The wights, the green seers and children of forest reappearing, this is all related to the magic of the ice dragons. It's also curious that it is said that the Wall is imbued with magic which prevents what is north of the wall from going any further. And we have seen little ice related magic south of the wall. So when the wall comes down, if it comes down, we're going to see the encroachment of ice magic into the world at large... or at least into all of Westeros. The song of Ice and Fire; Fire from Essos, Ice from Westeros. Fire Dragons from the East, Ice Dragons from the West. Also related to the seasons: Summer being the season of Fire Dragons, Winter being the season of Ice Dragons, and the variable length being explained by some detail about how dragons impact the world that we're not privy to yet. It is said when there is a long summer there tends to also be a long winter, so I suspect the appearance of ice/fire dragons are interrelated.
There are about a million incidental details to corroborate elements of the theory, but it seems pretty clear to me at this point. As I watch the show, I am becoming even more confident in all this.
General Background spoilers, I wouldn't read if you haven't read all the books.
There are no ice dragons. The children of the forest and green seers haven't reappeared, they have always been. BloodRaven has been around for over 100 years, that's not just reappearing. The children of the forest were all over Westeros.
Bran the builder used magic to build all sorts of structures. Including the Wall and Storm's End. Both structures keep out "ice" and "fire" magic. Why is this magic working against the ice creatures if the Children of the Forest are aligned with the cold gods. The children of the forest used weapons that are basically designed to kill Others.
Martin has said the 7 will perform a magical event in the next book.
Not sure how much of the books you've read but read on if you have finished A Dance with Dragons
ADWD
Thoros raises Beric from the dead several times and also performs a ritual to trade Beric's life for Catelyn's (which is why she isn't a zombie imo). Victarion is given a super strength lava hand by another red priest named Moqorro (who also sees the future in the flames, like Melisandre does). Melisandre is most likely going to do something with Jon here in the future. Melisandre is definitely legit.
About Thoros ASoS/ACoK
I think Thoros will be in the scenes when Beric is reintroduced. At this point in the books, all we've heard about is Thoros and his flaming sword from Robert, I think.
Thoros always seemed surprised of his powers, though. And almost felt guilty about using them. Moqorro was confident, but he was more... mystical, more aloof than Mel. Mel is dark, deliberate, intentional... and from the very beginning. She's cunning, has motive, and certainly uses a dark form of the pwoers we've seen in other priests (healing, resurrection). She's too calculating to just be 'another red priest'
Why? All of that was in CoK. I don't want people to think they have to have read ADWD to read it because I haven't read ADWD and I don't click on series spoilers.
Thoros always seemed surprised of his powers, though. And almost felt guilty about using them. Moqorro was confident, but he was more... mystical, more aloof than Mel. Mel is dark, deliberate, intentional... and from the very beginning. She's cunning, has motive, and certainly uses a dark form of the pwoers we've seen in other priests (healing, resurrection). She's too calculating to just be 'another red priest'
Well, like you say, they're all different personalities. Hers is just different. She's ambitious and her intentions aren't quite known yet however according to the Wiki she was a slave and solve to the Red Temple at an early age. I'm not sure when we learn that, but that's at least some kind confirmation.
Thoros was in awe because he thought the messiah of his religion was there in front of him I always thought. You're right that his resurrection of Beric was probably new stuff to him.
Well technically it's my 'theory', and much of it comes from books prior to ADWD, so you're not going to finish ADWD and get any more facts related to it... at least, not many more.
[series]
It's simply what makes sense given what is happening, the title of the book, the actions Melisandre has taken and Bran has gone to, and the type of magic that is coming out and where. The magic north of the wall is very specific, and it is quite distinct from the magic of the red god. We know the magic of the red god is being fueled by the resurgence of dragons. We know Melisandre is threatened by what is going on north of the wall, so much so that she convinces Stannis to go there to protect the realm. If Melisandre is a representation of the fire god, then what is going on north of the wall? Well, the resurgence of the ice god, or dragons rather, and all the unique magic that this implies. The wights, the green seers and children of forest reappearing, this is all related to the magic of the ice dragons. It's also curious that it is said that the Wall is imbued with magic which prevents what is north of the wall from going any further. And we have seen little ice related magic south of the wall. So when the wall comes down, if it comes down, we're going to see the encroachment of ice magic into the world at large... or at least into all of Westeros. The song of Ice and Fire; Fire from Essos, Ice from Westeros. Fire Dragons from the East, Ice Dragons from the West. Also related to the seasons: Summer being the season of Fire Dragons, Winter being the season of Ice Dragons, and the variable length being explained by some detail about how dragons impact the world that we're not privy to yet. It is said when there is a long summer there tends to also be a long winter, so I suspect the appearance of ice/fire dragons are interrelated.
There are about a million incidental details to corroborate elements of the theory, but it seems pretty clear to me at this point. As I watch the show, I am becoming even more confident in all this.
General Background spoilers, I wouldn't read if you haven't read all the books.
There are no ice dragons. The children of the forest and green seers haven't reappeared, they have always been. BloodRaven has been around for over 100 years, that's not just reappearing. The children of the forest were all over Westeros.
Bran the builder used magic to build all sorts of structures. Including the Wall and Storm's End. Both structures keep out "ice" and "fire" magic. Why is this magic working against the ice creatures if the Children of the Forest are aligned with the cold gods.
Martin has said the 7 will perform a magical event in the next book.
Without knowing about what the seven will do and what type of magic it will relate to, I'll not speculate with that. But as to Ice Dragons, are we sure they don't exist? I kind of figured that it would be one of the big reveals, since it provides a very symmetrical foundation for the book considering how specific the magic is in each area.
And what I meant for 'reappearing' is not 'they didn't exist, now they do.' I meant they hadn't made their presence known for so long, and many assumed they were gone, but they've chosen now to come back. It's related to the dragons, of course, as everything is. The magic in the Wall only keeps these these magical things from going south, they still exist. But when the dragons are gone, their power wanes. When they come back, they are back.
But again there's so much symmetry I can't imagine it's coincidence. The Doom of Valyria in the East, the destruction of Hardhome in the West. Dragons are connected to all the great disasters in the world and the seasons.
We'll see where it goes, but that's my theory and I'm stickin' with it.
So far the way the show has handled Theon has been maybe the best surprise and best part of the season but I'm worried about where they're going to go with him from here.
Well, like you say, they're all different personalities. Hers is just different. She's ambitious and her intentions aren't quite known yet however according to the Wiki she was a slave and solve to the Red Temple at an early age. I'm not sure when we learn that, but that's at least some kind confirmation.
Thoros was in awe because he thought the messiah of his religion was there in front of him I always thought. You're right that his resurrection of Beric was probably new stuff to him.
I always got the impression that Thoros' attitude towards his faith was much
more lax than what was the norm for priests, and looking at the wiki, it says, "He earned his priesthood but was never overly pious due to his tastes for fighting, drinking and women." Up until he resurrects Beric, I feel like he was in an almost identical situation as Robert, with both having similar personalities (Womanizing, drinking, fun-loving warriors) but being forced into a position that does not fit that personality (Priesthood/Kingship).
After he resurrects Beric though, he becomes much more serious, since, well, to him it seemed like the Messiah he had been taught about for years had appeared right before him.
Similarly, I don't think Mel is as manipulative and ambitious as many see her. If anything, she just seems to be EXTREMELY dedicated to her religion, and genuinely believes Stannis is Azor Ahai, and thus it is her duty to aid him to the best of her ability.
Although it will be interesting to see how things change up when GRRM inevitably revives Jon, pretty much confirming he is Azor Ahai. I wonder if Mel will continue to support Stannis, and how the power dynamic would shift between Stannis and Jon.
For one thing, I don't see them casting actors for short scenes like that. I really wonder how they will handle the undying stuff, if they will bother to show the visions.
For one thing, I don't see them casting actors for short scenes like that. I really wonder how they will handle the undying stuff, if they will bother to show the visions.
I'm hoping she at least sees some shadowy scenes and hears voices, saying some of the lines from that scene in the book, including the Song of Ice and Fire, and then asks Jorah about it afterwards.
I'm hoping she at least sees some shadowy scenes and hears voices, saying some of the lines from that scene in the book, including the Song of Ice and Fire, and then asks Jorah about it afterwards.
You could have never read a single page of the book series AND be a complete idiot, and you'd still know that Cat dies from reading this page. Terrible spoiler discussion.
I don't think that is necessarily true. Red Priests don't mean anything to viewers yet. The only potential is Amirox's hanging "Rez" which could mean anything. But that might just be willfully reading to not see what you see
Also, you guys are totally in the wrong thread, and should get the fuck outta here with this bullshit. There are like 3 tv based posts on this page.
I'm hoping she at least sees some shadowy scenes and hears voices, saying some of the lines from that scene in the book, including the Song of Ice and Fire, and then asks Jorah about it afterwards.
You'd think they'd have at least titled the episode with (mild ACOK spoiler)
Dany's trip to the House of the Undying "A Song of Ice and Fire."
Wouldn't be that big of a deal assuming they don't cut that scene from the show and would be a nice, little callback to the books, since thats the only time in the books that is directly mentioned.
You could have never read a single page of the book series AND be a complete idiot, and you'd still know that Cat dies from reading this page. Terrible spoiler discussion.
Agreed. Take this crap to the open spoiler thread. There is a ton of stuff in here from books 3-5 that is very poorly masked. Leave the discussion to books 1-2 and the series.
Saying casting is 50/50 is a real stretch, almost all of them have been good choices. The Halfhand seems fine right now, they only have a limited budget, were you expecting Liam Neeson?
Yeah 50/50 is a pretty big stretch. I only really have problems with Asha and Qorin right now. Cersei's come into her own and Stannis is...Stannis.
As for Qorin I was expecting somebody with a more....intimidating presence. This man blends in with the rest of them.
Fan casting is almost always ridiculous but still the greatest Bronn would have been Ray Stevenson. And Mads Mikkelsen being thrown about as either Mance Rayder or the Greyjoy uncle would also be cool. Never...gonna..happen.
The scene between Tywin and Arya killed. I think Charles Dance is great in his role, maybe the best actor in the series, and Maisie was right at his level in this scene. Brilliant.
Pretty disappointed in the Renly scene. Not shocking like in the book, but they didn't even try for suspense. The little bit of shadow-sword peeking out from Renly's chest was weak as well.
I feel sorry for the Night's Watch actors. That location looks brutal!
the Reeds. If they decide to push it to season 3 that is fine.
. I just don't think they can make the trip as believable without them. Also, Series
Howland may be the most important person in the series. He has been to the Island of faces, knows about Tourney of Harrenhal, Tower of Joy and thus Jon, and has a greenseer kid if he isn't as gifted himself. Maybe the cloaked man at Winterfell? Would he really be sitting by locked up in Greywater Watch when his kids are feared dead/missing? Or is he planning something with the Blackfish. We know Lady Mormont and Ser Glover are there.
He is the only one that can provide answers otherwise lost to the past. Yet we know next to nothing about him.
So maybe I just didn't realize while reading ACoK, but now that I watched this episode's scene with Jaqen, I'm left wondering: does he worships the same god (the Red God) as the maegi who "killed" Drogo?
So maybe I just didn't realize while reading ACoK, but now that I watched this episode's scene with Jaqen, I'm left wondering: does he worships the same god (the Red God) as the maegi who "killed" Drogo?
Fan casting is almost always ridiculous but still the greatest Bronn would have been Ray Stevenson. And Mads Mikkelsen being thrown about as either Mance Rayder or the Greyjoy uncle would also be cool. Never...gonna..happen.
Questions for book readers regarding previews and interviews for arya's story in the next episode (about spoilers from article writers that have seen the episode and their previews/comments for it)
So in the previews it says she meets an unexpected visitor? Who the hell can that be? Is it the captured prisoners? Also interview articles saying its someone who knows/almost gives away her identity? Who even knows her that can go to harrenhall? I'm guessing this is who the second Jaqen kill will be whoever it is.
