Anton Sugar
Member
Gah, now I want to know so bad, whatever it is I don't know
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Game of Thrones - Season 2 - George RR Martin's Song of Ice and Fire - Sundays on HBO
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umberhulk2
Banned
Gotta say. I love that actor. I love the dialogue concerning Jon, and the way he kind of exposes Cat's semi character flaw.
catotheyounger
Member
I have a feeling Ducksauce has nothing in the vault - that it is just a ruse, therein by playing into Vary's "power is a shadow on the wall" speech. He's not the richest man in Qarth, as he claims, but simply a man who acts the part of one. Now that the 13 are done, the vault doesn't really matter.
Not caring about his family members is much different from cruelly and brutally murdering them for no reason.
You haven't even read half the series. You aren't even close to qualified to make a post like this.I'm halfway through CoK but I haven't seen anything to indicate that Jaime cares at all about honor or family. There are specific mentions about Jaime having a soft spot in his heart for Tyrion, but why is everyone insinuating that he would NEVER do something like that? Was his cousin even a "true" Lannister (signature gold locks are missing)?
So far, Jaime has:
-Murdered a king he was sworn to protect
-Attempted to murder a small boy after Jaime was caught banging his twin sister
-Murdered Ned's personal guard/men
What are his "values", with all of this in mind? Tyrion hints in the show that Jaime will be FURIOUS with Lancel if he finds out he was banging Cersei, and in the book (CoK),Tyrion basically says that Cersei trying to "replace" Jaime with Lancel was a death sentence for the boy, because either Cersei OR Jaime will kill him if Cersei and Jaime are ever reunited.
I think some of you build this characters up in your heads without a whole lotta correlation to the text. I agree with the scene being way too long (and a little pointless...why not fake his death), but from what we've seen with Jaime, it's not far from his actions. He's in the heart of the enemy, humiliated, and literally stewing in his own shit and piss. He was an asshole BEFORE any of that--he's probably 10x worse/desperate now.
EDIT: Totally beaten by scosher/Amirox
Ghost_Protocol
Member
I kind of can't believe they're still carrying Jaime along. It's gone on for too long.
If they kill him what do you think will happen to Sansa?
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Not at all. Jaime didn't expect to actually escape. He's not dumb, he knew the Starks would capture him. He just did it to spite them, because as he said he refuses to be a "good prisoner" like Ned. Also, actually killing his cousin wasn't necessary to pull off his plan.
Anton Sugar
Member
I can't make judgments based on what's been revealed to the audience so far? Ok, bro. I'm not to wherever this "is" in the book yet, but there seems to be little in CoK so far that indicates Jaime doesn't align with my assessment.
My thoughts/feelings can and probably will change once I learn more about Jaime, but nothing more has been shown yet, so his actions aren't that surprising. Get off your high horse.
I don't know about that, but yeah, there are plenty of other ways they could of had him escape. Him killing Alton was charcter exposition, not a necessary plot point in any way. The kinslayer is accrued. It's literally the worst thing you can do in Westeros. I don't disagree that he wouldn't feel bad about killing him if he had a decent reason, or maybe even if he didn't, but he'd never just do it on a whim like that.
NathanMcMahon
Banned
umberhulk2
Banned
I think you're criticized (ant) because of the theory you made about why people are claiming Jaime is good, but the reasons people are saying that are all pieces of content from other books, while you basically accused them of imagining out of nowhere, and yeah, you should catch up before you make an opinion like that.
Anton Sugar
Member
I've liked him ever since his small but memorable role in Black Hawk Down! Was excited to see him in GoT when I first started watching.
My assessment will probably be proven completely wrong. My point was that, at this part in the tv series, and even the books (to an extent), there is very little of this "good" that everyone points out as reasons for decrying the murder.
Anton is untainted by the future. Telling people to "read the books" when he's at the same point as the show is obnoxious.
[series]
He's in the perfect position to make these arguments at this point in the show. Jaime undergoes several humbling experiences that completely shatter his character, his imprisonment included. Some people who've read the books are trying to find that massively transformed man in the impulsive, gifted narcissist of GoT/CoK and he isn't there.
NathanMcMahon
Banned
here fucking here!
umberhulk2
Banned
Yeah, that's fair enough.
I like that they articulate his fondness of Tyrion more, and they make a nice allusion early in the first season about the mad kind.
I like that they articulate his fondness of Tyrion more, and they make a nice allusion early in the first season about the mad kind.
I'm saying that some of what Jamie becomes was always there. That's why I think it was a bit odd for him to kill that kid. (family or not)
Edit: even if they haven't shown that part off as of yet
Damn, best episode of the season (and series) so far. Loved every single scene. Arya and Tywin was once again fantastic. Such great chemistry between those two. Loved seeing Jaime show he truly is a Lannister in the way he manipulated that poor sod squire and temporarily gained his freedom. Pyatt Pree and the murdering of all the lords was creepy as shit. Ygritte is awesome and everything I'd ever hoped she would be. I said it a few episodes back but the feeling only gets stronger each episode: every single episode of this season has been better than every single episode from last season. The final run of episodes will be amazing.
Very true! I'm in awe of how great an adaptation this is. Mostly faithful, but it's own thing too.
Not to mention its significantly better now than last year. Just wish we could more episodes. There's just so much content to translate to a ten ep season.
umberhulk2
Banned
Killing his cousin could arguably be the worst thing he's done. Because he killed someone who was no threat to him, for a slim chance of escape. And he's already been humbled, and he also legitimately is tired of being despised, so I could see how some people don't think he would kill someone who was actually admiring him.
That said, it was still 100% awesome.
That said, it was still 100% awesome.
Yeah I would never see Jamie doing what he did in the show, killing a Lannister cold blooded. He really is a man of his word/honour in the books, everything he does is in away justified.
A Storm of Swords spoilers
A Storm of Swords spoilers
I don't like this change at all as now we don't get to see Rob do the following:-
Karstark sends men to the cells of Riverrun and murders Tion Frey and Willem Lannister, two prisoners. For this crime, Robb sentences him to death and beheads Lord Rickard himself. Immediately after, the Karstark forces desert Robb's army
Karstark sends men to the cells of Riverrun and murders Tion Frey and Willem Lannister, two prisoners. For this crime, Robb sentences him to death and beheads Lord Rickard himself. Immediately after, the Karstark forces desert Robb's army
A "Mad king" who was about to destroy all of King's Landing...His act saved thousands. He could have also taken the throne for himself or his father but gave it up when Ned showed up.
To protect his sister and their secret...If Bran had told anyone, not only would he and his sister have had their heads cut, their children would likely die to sever whatever ties they have to the Iron Throne. Not a noble thing to do (of course) but it wasn't done without reason.
Catelyn had (wrongly) taken Tyrion hostage and Ned covered for her and took the blame. Simply put, his brother was more important to him than Ned's people.
Jaime doesn't have "honor" in the sense that we see it in characters like Jon but he does have a code that he lives by...I don't agree with his actions, mind you, but I understand him and these actions are not without reason.
The murder of his cousin (as I said before) is needless...there are plenty of ways to lure a jailer into a cell. He could have even convinced his cousin to help him but instead the writers went for shock value...oh well.
Anton Sugar
Member
I'm getting the feeling that ASOS reveals a lot about Jaime
I DO like the (only?) scene in Season 1 that paints Jaime as sympathetic re: his "Kingslayer" motivation. The moment he, Selmy, and Robert share, talking about their first kills, etc., adds some dimension to his character.
I DO like the (only?) scene in Season 1 that paints Jaime as sympathetic re: his "Kingslayer" motivation. The moment he, Selmy, and Robert share, talking about their first kills, etc., adds some dimension to his character.
Killing Ned's people accomplished nothing. How does killing innocents because you're angry or scared fit into any kind of code of honor?
AlimNassor
Banned
You know nothing, Jon Snow.
Dead. On. the way she delivered it.
Dead. On. the way she delivered it.
I'm getting the feeling that ASOS reveals a lot about Jaime
I DO like the (only?) scene in Season 1 that paints Jaime as sympathetic re: his "Kingslayer" motivation. The moment he, Selmy, and Robert share, talking about their first kills, etc., adds some dimension to his character.
It is the signature thing about these books...Nothing is black and white. It's amazing how from one book to the next, you find yourself rooting for characters you once wished death upon. I pray you don't get spoiled for the events in ASOS...Too many awesome moments to be had to be tempting fate the way you are.
Anton Sugar
Member
It is the signature thing about these books...Nothing is black and white. It's amazing how from one book to the next, you find yourself rooting for characters you once wished death upon. I pray you don't get spoiled for the events in ASOS...Too many awesome moments to be had to be tempting fate the way you are.
I've already had a bad spoiler, thanks to this NeoGAF "mouseover spoilers to reveal!" script that I thought was a good idea.
(series)
Robb :'( :'( :'(
I never said he had a "code of honor"...I said he lives by a code and (at the very least) he doesn't attack without reason.
I think we'd all agree that this doesn't make it "okay." But I would place his actions in this episode in the same category, not a worse one. People in this thread have claimed he's a man of honor who always has good reasons. That's a shallow reading of the character, but let's go with it anyway in this case: He has plenty of reasons to escape from captivity. If you want to reach a bit you could even say that he wants to escape to prevent his family from giving up some advantage they currently hold in order to exchange for him. All for his [real] family.
The simple fact of things is that kinslaying is not a thing that the show is interested in making a big deal of, and especially not for distant relatives. That's the show's choice. Without that taboo, this act is about equal to what Jaime did to Bran, and it was done after the sustained duress of imprisonment, so it's not an entirely clearheaded act.
From the showrunners' perspective, this scene exists to remind us that Jaime is not just a cool guy who makes funny quips. His actions against Bran have likely faded from many viewers' attention (as they do even with book readers' occasionally), and they wanted to give a reminder of what lengths he will go to in order to survive/return to his loved ones. (Series)
And to give him a baseline from which we can measure the redemption and change in his character.
I'm getting the feeling that ASOS reveals a lot about Jaime.
Catelyn interrogation of Jaime is the only scene I think Jamie has in book 2 from what I recall, Jamie's part in A Clash of Kings in the books is really small. Has a bigger role in Book 3.
That's a shame but even knowing that you still won't be disappointed, book 3 is so good.
Who doesn't.
catotheyounger
Member
Jon Snow
Oh please. You told people they were wrong and that things they were saying about Jaime weren't base on anything, yet you've only read one and a half books of the series. You find out a lot more about Jaime in the next books. He's not an evil monster in the books, it's as simple as that. You are trying to tell people they're wrong when you don't have all the information. You made an obnoxious post and got called out on it. Don't get all butt hurt about it now.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Well organizations that hunt their enemies by daylight in a snow white environment wearing all black are not known for recruiting the most intelligent of people.
Harry Potter
Banned
So, Gwendoline Christie...she sucks. I had a feeling she didn't have the chops for the role in her fist episode and I was willing to give her a chance but it's not there.
There is that line where the other Lannister is talking about how his father didnt want him to embarrass "his" part of house Lannister in front of "the house Lannister". I think that and some of the scenes we've gotten where Tywin is scolding his cousin and other councillor helps show that the Tywin/Cersei/Jamie/Tyrion are the real Lannister. I dont really think tht killing dude in the cage makes Jamie some nonredeemable guy.
Definitely looking forward to more Jamie & Bre of Tarth. Him shit talking to her was excellent last episode & for whatever about how Jamie becomes a better dude that is after he finds out about Lancel and meets W/E the Fat dothaki of the brave companions.
She seems just as awkward as she is in the books, what's the problem?
Jaime is certainly a deplorable human being,
So eventually you do begin to start understanding Jaime a bit more, even if it doesn't justify what he's done.
In theory, even though this kill he did in the last episode was dramatic, as long as it still
, the effective change on the character overall will be zero.
even with his later changes, but it's certainly true that he starts to at the bare minimum see the error of his past ways and make significant advances toward being a better person.
In theory, even though this kill he did in the last episode was dramatic, as long as it still
makes those changes
I'm not talking about what happens to him later. I'm talking about things you learn about him later. Jaime's no worse than a lot of the other characters in this series, he's just misunderstood. It seems in the show they're trying to make him into a Joffrey-like villain, but in the books he's so much more than that, it's a shame.
I'm not a big fan myself. I thought her acting during Renly's murder scene was god awful. I dare anyone to go back and check. Her "Nooooo!" was fucking cringe-worthy, not kidding. She looks the part well enough though, but I'm not convinced acting-wise.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Yea that was bad. But outside of that she's doing well, in part because she doesn't have much material to work with. I liked her little confrontation with the Stark soldier who tried to enter Catelyn's tent
Harry Potter
Banned
You know nothing.
They also made Tywin into a very like-able character in the show but in the books he's a twat.
I mean really all he's done that is bad was push a kid to ensure his own survival, that's not evil just a man trying to survive.
Ned stark's the one that's chopping peoples heads off for petty crime if you come to think of it.
I completely agree. Some people need to learn to read the rules.
Saying that, I watched the first season before reading the book and Jaime was a lovable rogue to me.
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