Emerson
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Oh now come on.
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Game of Thrones - Season 2 - George RR Martin's Song of Ice and Fire - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter Cornballer
- Start date
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Oh now come on.
pulga
Banned
The hell? A shortage? And what battles? We haven't even seen a real battle.
No, that's what I'm saying. People complaining seem to point out the lack of military turnabout. I think the dialogue between characters is more meaningful than swords crashing against each other.
And yes, the show has a shortage of really memorable characters.
Example: Rob Stark. Every character on the show talks about this guy like he's the most important person in the world. Rob Stark is winning. Rob Stark is coming.
Rob Stark is boring is what he is.
And yes, the show has a shortage of really memorable characters.
Example: Rob Stark. Every character on the show talks about this guy like he's the most important person in the world. Rob Stark is winning. Rob Stark is coming.
Rob Stark is boring is what he is.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
Part of what makes a show like Breaking Bad work -- despite the downright ABSURD premises -- is that it earns every crazy scenario or character movement with some masterful character development. It might be a small, offhand conversation. It might be a look you exchanged between two characters. Game of Thrones feels fundamentally disconnected from that. Character motivations and actions seem motivated by the most brute-force expositionary dialogue imaginable. The direction adds little and less (ho-ho) to the story.
It's such an unimaginative adaption. I mean, it's such a large scale production, I can sympathize with them, but I'm not about to hold this up as anything truly great. It feels like a series of compromises to me. An exercise in "look, we can present a fantasy world on screen in a TV serial format" rather than an exercise in outstanding, top-tier TV production.
It's such an unimaginative adaption. I mean, it's such a large scale production, I can sympathize with them, but I'm not about to hold this up as anything truly great. It feels like a series of compromises to me. An exercise in "look, we can present a fantasy world on screen in a TV serial format" rather than an exercise in outstanding, top-tier TV production.
And GoT will be funded substantially more by the end of its run, accordingly. HBO has already had budgeting issues with past shows that forced them to cut them off early, and they clearly don't want to repeat the same mistake. They can't afford to squeeze another two episodes with the seasons so that it hits the typical 12; they're running a tight ship.
PairOfFilthySocks
Member
Those pages are just the stuff he took out of ADWD because he didn't have time to perfect them.
And if he did that interview recently that means he's done nothing since ADWD released...the fucking cunt.
Steelyuhas
Member
Could GoT pulll one of these?
Should be able to because most of that is CGI.
Robb Stark is boring this season because they haven't shown any of his war. They haven't given any context whatsoever about what he is doing, why, and what his goals for his actions are. He is basically not a character this season.
Real shame, because they did an amazing job with him in season 1, he jumped off the screen in a way that he never did in the book, but they have really dropped the ball with him in season 2.
He said on his blog site just last week that he is working on the book.
I know Cornballer isn't here so did anyone else post this?
http://winteriscoming.net/2012/05/initial-ratings-drop-slightly-totals-unchanged/
Qhorin Halfhand after they capture her:
"Can't let her go, she'll bring Mance Rayder's army down on us."
So, are you done yet?
This articulates a lot of my feelings. The more they stop pulling scenes straight from the books the more I feel the writers are being exposed to be actually very average. I don't think it deserves to be nominated for an Emmy this year, let alone be mentioned in the same breath as breaking bad, which is a shame because it does have the potential.
PairOfFilthySocks
Member
I hate to jump on the "it's not just like the books!" bandwagon, but I don't think[CoK spoilers]
the kids' death fake-outs were handled very well. In the book you discovered that Bran and Rickon had (supposedly) been killed just as Catelyn did. Her disbelief and despair fuelled your own and made you think George actually went through with it. I'm not saying the show should've done things the exact same way(ie. having TV Cat be the first time we hear of the kids being killed) but it just didn't have the oomph the books had, since anyone with half a freakin' brain would've noticed the talk early in the episode about the two orphans, complete with a friggin' shot of the orphans where you can clearly see that the two of them are similar in physique to Bran and Rickon. That said, the showrunners may have felt that viewers would've just decided 'FUCK THIS' if there weren't significant clues that it's not the Stark kids. Still, feels like a missed opportunity to me/
I had watched the entirety of Season 1 prior to reading the book, and found Season 1 to be amazing. Now, I'm reading A Clash of Kings and won't be able to see Season 2 until it's released on BD, but can catch bits and pieces on Youtube. Some scenes don't seem as impressive when watched after reading them. For example, they REALLY compressed and altered the scene from the preface. The Painted Table looked pretty neat though. If I won the lottery I'd want a replica of that.
JoJoShabadoo
Member
That's two disappointing episodes in a row now. Really not liking the Jon Snow stuff as we have had barely any progression given the amount of time we have had with him the last two episodes. Everything in Qarth is just uninteresting, no one gave a shit for the 13 or even really knew what the 13 did so who cares.
My biggest complaint with this episode is with Cersei. Correct me if I am wrong but book Cersei would never admit to Tyrion or to Sansa that her son is fucking mad but she does it here. She is the Queen Bitch of Westeros and they have shown known of that this season. Maybe they have a plan but Cersei being a bitch is important for later (can't remember which book so don't read this if you haven't finished
.
There are other things wrong about this episode but they have already been discussed. The Tywin and Arya scenes have been probably the best addition to the story but, it has gone on too long. There is zero sense of danger there for Arya which is quite different from the books.
My biggest complaint with this episode is with Cersei. Correct me if I am wrong but book Cersei would never admit to Tyrion or to Sansa that her son is fucking mad but she does it here. She is the Queen Bitch of Westeros and they have shown known of that this season. Maybe they have a plan but Cersei being a bitch is important for later (can't remember which book so don't read this if you haven't finished
when she is paraded around the city naked. If we have season upon season where she is this sympathetic figure, that scene seems excessive but in the book it isn't because again, she is the Queen Bitch of Westeros.
There are other things wrong about this episode but they have already been discussed. The Tywin and Arya scenes have been probably the best addition to the story but, it has gone on too long. There is zero sense of danger there for Arya which is quite different from the books.
No. That's not convincing to me. And you don't have to sound so mean about it...
About the quote: That was because she knew their position. Now she doesn't.
And even so, the solution then is what? Take her with you? Qhorin also said they can't do that. So what is Jon doing? He's not killing her. He's already disobeying Qhorin and endangering the group.
Say Jon actually found the group again with her. Then what? The options are still the same: let her go or kill her.
Jon clearly doesn't want to kill her. So what's his option? Let her go. Taking her back to Qhorin is killing her anyway. And not what Ned Stark would do. Ned Stark says if you can't bring yourself to kill the person, then maybe they don't deserve to die. So why would Jon bring her back so Qhorin or someone else can kill her instead?
Or he brings her back so they can release her, endangering the group even more because now she knows their position again. If he wants to release her, do it away from the group.
Going around looking for Qhorin with her is dumb and it makes no sense.
Game Of Thrones Season 2: Inside The Episode #17
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxJSAmS8Wvg
I want Cornballer back so I don't have to go and find this stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxJSAmS8Wvg
I want Cornballer back so I don't have to go and find this stuff.
Jibbajabbawockky
Member
Maybe it'll make sense once we see the rest of Jon's arc on the show, but for now it just doesn't make much sense, especially when you compare how things happen in the book.
ACOK
I just reread that part of the book and Qhorin leaves Jon to "do what needs to be done" with Ygritte. Jon lets her go. He doesn't chase after her or keep her on a leash. He just lets her go and meets back up with Qhorin. And probably the most important conversation Qhorin and Jon have comes afterwards, when Jon has to explain to Qhorin why he spared Ygritte and then how Qhorin didn't care what he did with Ygritte, he just wanted to know what Jon would do on his own:
"To lead men, you must know them, Jon Snow. I know more of you now than I did this morning."
The way the show frames it Jon is just being indecisive and in the show, its more like Qhorin is ordering Jon to kill Ygritte. Eh...I'll wait and see how it plays out of course, but the sequence of events in the books seem to make more sense for Jon's development as a leader.
"To lead men, you must know them, Jon Snow. I know more of you now than I did this morning."
The way the show frames it Jon is just being indecisive and in the show, its more like Qhorin is ordering Jon to kill Ygritte. Eh...I'll wait and see how it plays out of course, but the sequence of events in the books seem to make more sense for Jon's development as a leader.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I have no idea what your particular problem is with the show; I'm assuming you went on a tirade like 8 pages ago about it, but now you're just randomly posting the equivalent of "shitsucks" every few posts. Maybe try posting with content rather than just making posts which are the equivalent of facebook "likes" of people who actually have something to talk about.
I don't much like the way they've portrayed Cersei and think they've toned a lot of her down from day one.
I don't really remember any of that from the book. That makes way more sense and both Jon and Qhorin would be way better characters if that had happened.
But you're right. It might be make more sense by the end of the arc. But I need something to talk about while waiting for Sunday!
The only things I really remember from the books are who dies and other really major events. I haven't read ADWD yet.
Series spoilers regarding deaths. DO NOT HIGHLIGHT:
All I remember is Robb gets tricked and dies. Catelyn dies and comes back as a zombie-thing. Joffrey dies. Tyrion kills Tywin on the toilet.
I actually forgot Renly died.
I also remember Jon becoming the head of the night's watch. Sam being sent overseas. Arya going overseas. Tyrion leaving to cross the ocean I think. I think Sansa gets married to Littlefinger?
I don't know what this Blackwater people are talking about is. I don't remember any battle really. I don't remember the details on how any of these people died or ended up where they did. I just have a very vague overview of some big events in my mind.
I actually forgot Renly died.
I also remember Jon becoming the head of the night's watch. Sam being sent overseas. Arya going overseas. Tyrion leaving to cross the ocean I think. I think Sansa gets married to Littlefinger?
I don't know what this Blackwater people are talking about is. I don't remember any battle really. I don't remember the details on how any of these people died or ended up where they did. I just have a very vague overview of some big events in my mind.
It really has been a long time. The last time I read was when A Feast for Crows MMP version was released and I have never re-read the books.
The snark was obviously unnecessary, but I also don't understand why you need to continue distorting/exaggerating.
You're assuming that they know that crows are in their midst and are interpreting Qhorin's words as meaning "she'll give away our position" whereas it could just as easily be "she'll alert them as to our presence" (ie, which would continue to be a danger). You're sooner assuming that Jon is making decisions for no good reason instead of inferring that he's just following Qhorin's orders for fear of the crows being discovered (although he's not able to kill her).
It's not that it makes less sense (imo), but they're definitely focusing on other aspects of Jon's personality (to the neglect of others). Since it's a TV show, and for better or worse, they obviously want to develop the Jon/Ygritte relationship (plus wildling/crow relations) and this was one way of doing it.
Could GoT pulll one of these?
Well we'll see in two episodes.
Because otherwise there's no question to ask? I wanted to see if anyone would prefer to have the show continuing to run (4 more seasons) where we would see these characters, places and storylines 'brought to life' at the expense of getting that last book. I'm not surprised that everyone is choosing A, though I think my girlfriend (for example) might actually choose B (
Hi, Solo.
I'm replying with about 1/10 the length of this guy's posts. I think I deserve a pat on the back here.
Hmm. I don't feel like I'm distorting or exaggerating. I really didn't intend to. Sorry if I rubbed you the wrong way with my stupidity and inability to understand. I'm really not trying to create arguments and stuff. I'm just kind of slow.
I just posted what I see is happening (which I guess is incorrect). I figure the wildlings already knew there were crows about. I mean, there was a huge group of them standing on top of a mountain wasn't there?
Maybe I misread the situation.
I don't see how Jon is following Qhorin's orders though. He's not killing her and Qhorin said they can't take her. So really, he's disobeying both orders and doing the exact opposite of what Qhorin said to do.
But I'm not very smart so maybe I just don't understand and I'm not getting what the show is telling me. It really does seem to me that Jon is making decisions for no good reasons. It actually seems like it was really forced just so they can develop that relationship between the two characters. Like it was unnatural for how Jon was portrayed up until that point, but they force it to happen this way just for the sake of the relationship building.
Jon seems dumb to me right now. And he wasn't before. That's all I wanted to say. Unfortunately, nothing you have said has convinced me there's any sensible reason Jon is doing what he's doing.
EDIT:
If this post was about me, that hurts. I'll try to use less words? Or have less conversations.
Yeah, because I want them to since it would make for a better story. Why wouldn't I want the story to be better and more focused? Also you're pretty dumb if you think characters can't be developed in battle preparations. Instead of making up a scene where Cersei is crying about how bad her son is, she could be crying about how they all might die.
I tried to account for this in my other post. He couldn't follow the orders insofar as killing her, so he's tried to accomplish some kind of compromise by at least ensuring that she doesn't go off and say there are crows in the area that are after them (and killing wildlings).
I also really don't why you're being so self-deprecative.
Eh, it really wasn't about you. Type as much as you want. It's not as if takes long to read.frequency said:
JoJoShabadoo
Member
I posted after 2, maybe 3 episodes, a total of about 10 posts. I'm entitled to my opinion. I was simply agreeing with a fellow user. I've seen AMAZING EPISODE quoted several times with "this" and the like. You're coming off as a defensive teenager. Let my post be a fart in the wind if you're not actually going to say why you think my reasons for disliking this show are mistaken. My original posts have been filled with content, and your posts among others have been the equivalent of a dislike button that doesn't appear on facebook. Lol, you're sad, lol what a nitpicker, lol what a nerd, etc.
After this last episode I have no more hopes of the show redeeming itself. The showrunners fail to understand the most basic elements of the novel and at this point are not only cutting things for budgetary reasons, but to give screentime to cliched or poorly thought-out crap that they make up or isn't necessary.
The protagonist of the book is Tyrion. This is HIS book, and it's his moment in the spotlight. We are given no hint throughout the season that he has a master plan in mind, or that he's using his position as hand to influence absolutely anything. But oh look, he slaps Joffrey again! The viewers will eat that up. Almost the entire novel is spent with him making preparations for the defense of the city. This makes Stannis a significant threat. We've gone two episodes now without Stannis. Will we go a third? By the time anything happens viewers probably won't even remember who the guy is.
Jaime killing his cousin is one of the worse liberties the show has taken with anything yet. I mean really, is it that difficult for him to ask his cousin to pretend he's dead? It's really necessary to kill him in cold blood like this? If he doesn't want him escaping with him he can just leave him chained up. This is just cheap shock value at the expense of an entire character. Furthermore, you're telling me they HAD to put the cousin in this cage, they couldn't have tied him up on a pole anywhere? Jesus.
The Arya and Tywin scenes are HORRIBLE. They're dehumanizing Jaime while humanizing Tywin. Why??? And Arya should be in Harrenhal fearing for her life, living in hopeless misery every day. The novel was painful to read with all the suffering she went through, and the hatred she harbors, but this is what gives her fortitude and creates her arc. I just don't understand why there's a need to make her look cozy and comfortable. Instead of spending 15 interminable minutes with Jaime and his cousin, why don't we get a simple scene of her breaking down in private or something? I mean come on, we're not even talking budget right now.
Here's a simple way to establish in 3 minutes what they haven't managed to do in 7 episodes, just by trimming the Jaime scene or getting rid of one of the 5 scenes with Jon which were all about the same thing anyway. Instead of shitting up the one-minute reveal of Bran and Rickon's bodies with an amateurish fade to black and Theon looking at what I can only suppose was a coin on the ground, why don't we have a foreboding piece of music come up, and in silent montage style, just a few establishing shots of some characters: Sansa crying over some bloody bed sheets, Arya hugging herself to sleep, Stannis brooding over his map, Cat looking over Ned's bones and sending them to Winterfell. Maybe it's not in the general style we've seen up till now, but one of the big things for me that the show is doing wrong (aside from all this, which will be labeled as nerd nitpicking by people who fail to see most of these are legitimate complaints about what ultimately amounts to making effective character and plot arcs) is the pedestrian way it is filmed and edited together. We have almost constant static shots and very basic edits that just cut back from one character to another, with no creativity to ANY of it, and a soundtrack that creeps in robotically on cue whenever a scene is reaching its climax. Why don't we get more scenes like when Theon arrived on Pyke, something with sweeping music, maybe a theme or two that can be orchestrated in a very subdued way during calm scenes so as to not call attention to itself? There are just so many ways this could be more cinematically presented.
is going to be a travesty. I feel it in my bones.Episode 9
Very very good post. Arya being scared for her life all the time at Harranhal is something I even forgot about. I feel the same way about the pedestrian style but couldn't think how to put it into words. The montage you described would have been so damn good to have in the episode. Even people that liked the episode have to admit that.
When child characters on television suffer, the viewer wants to believe that there is something they can learn from the suffering in their later life. They want to believe that despite everything, they can still experience love or happiness one day.
Things Game of Thrones has done to infants and children.
1) Slit a baby's throat
2) Drowned boys
3) Run over/cut down a child
4) Put a sword through a boy's gut.
5) Burned two children presumably alive, hanged them.
6) Showed more than one attempted rape.
7) Shown an adult throwing a child from a window.
8) Children beaten or shown in situations of prostitution, incest, or slavery.
Things Arya Stark has seen:
1) Her father murdered.
2) Her best friend murdered.
3) Her family torn apart.
4) That lady who helped take care of her murdered.
5) A man who tried to rescue her murdered.
6) Her dancing master murdered.
7) Has to serve the head of a family that is responsible for all of the above horrible things.
So yeah, great life this kid has had. Let's see her beaten, let's watch her cry. Because that's what her character needs.
Things Game of Thrones has done to infants and children.
1) Slit a baby's throat
2) Drowned boys
3) Run over/cut down a child
4) Put a sword through a boy's gut.
5) Burned two children presumably alive, hanged them.
6) Showed more than one attempted rape.
7) Shown an adult throwing a child from a window.
8) Children beaten or shown in situations of prostitution, incest, or slavery.
Things Arya Stark has seen:
1) Her father murdered.
2) Her best friend murdered.
3) Her family torn apart.
4) That lady who helped take care of her murdered.
5) A man who tried to rescue her murdered.
6) Her dancing master murdered.
7) Has to serve the head of a family that is responsible for all of the above horrible things.
So yeah, great life this kid has had. Let's see her beaten, let's watch her cry. Because that's what her character needs.
I knew people would take issue with that.
When I watch the show, I want to see Tyrion, Joffrey, Catelyn, and Arya.
Those are my favorite characters. But even not having read the books, I can tell that not one of them is going to ultimately win the day, which speaks to how unmemorable some of the other characters are.
IAmtheFMan
Member
Maaan, this thread is totally giving me de ja vu vibes of when I was a mod at the LOTR Countingdown.com forums circa 2001-2003.
It would probably be for the best if we just move discussion of the show to the full spoiler book thread. It is clear that any discussion that is made in here about differences gets dismissed with the whole "it is an adaptation, get over it" thing. Most people in here that were in here last season are not overtly critical of this show for differing from the book. The problem now is that the show is departing further and further from the book and some of the greatest scenes from this series are in danger of having a lost impact or not even occurring at all. Maybe the show can capture some of the magic that is found in the books by doing it differently but the point is that, as book readers, we know that these changes mean that our favorite events can't happen or won't happen to their full extent and we need to put faith in the creators of the show to come out with similar pay offs. The last two episodes have not instilled me with confidence that they can do that.
NathanMcMahon
Banned
As long as the majority keep watching (and we all know they will no matter the proclamations) it's all good.
The thing is, the LOTR films makes up for the adaptation shortcomings by having gorgeous production values.
sometimes people need to remember its TV show first, book 2nd...you need to make a good TV show out of the material, sometimes things change.
TV/Film/theater is a very different form of storytelling, they are doing a pretty damn good job of recreating the world from the books while producing a solid TV Show.
TV/Film/theater is a very different form of storytelling, they are doing a pretty damn good job of recreating the world from the books while producing a solid TV Show.
That's not really a crutch for its lacking direction, soundtrack and (often) lazy writing.
I don't want solid, I want great and even dismissing the book stuff they have been faulting. Dany's scenes are boring and do nothing with Clarke seemingly getting worse and worse each episode. Jon is completely inept for two episodes. The ending of last week was handled poorly. Last weeks riot scene was just plain bad in terms of being realistic or believable. As of now, the first season I feel is heads and shoulders above season 2 though season 2 still has some time to make up for it but they have gone downhill the past two weeks where as they were climbing with every episode before.
IAmtheFMan
Member
Not according to the psycho posters that were on there. If I could dig up some of the tripe I had to moderate I would, but unfortunately CD has gone bye-bye. I remember I had to ban a poster that lost it saying that Tolkien's dead corpse had been raped, pillaged, and shat upon by Peter Jackson because of the Faramir changes, and that ROTK was going to be the most worthless pile of shit because of it.
LMAO wow.
Oh my godddddd
Sorry, but an overbearing score is the last thing this show needs (Bear McCreary or otherwise), nor is that something HBO would want for their programming. No matter what show we're we're talking about: The Wire, The Sopranos, Deadwood, Boardlike Empire, Six Feet Under, etc. None of them are really notable for their original scores (i.e. you didn't go out and buy a Sopranos season 3 OST on Amazon). They all just have good intros and usually licensed music in their credits, which GoT obviously can't rely on.
I am open to constructive criticism for this show, and if you want to go back you'll find me making my own complaints. But many of the suggestions you guys have been making are worse "cures" than the "disease" itself.
I am open to constructive criticism for this show, and if you want to go back you'll find me making my own complaints. But many of the suggestions you guys have been making are worse "cures" than the "disease" itself.
N Coward Parody
Member
Wow, the nerd rage in this thread has gone off the charts in the last few pages. What the hell is going? As the episodes get stronger the criticism get... harsher? Bizarre...
Y'all are some weirdos...
Y'all are some weirdos...
10 Biggest differences between the show and books:
http://ohnotheydidnt.livejournal.com/69008883.html
Spoilers obviously...
http://ohnotheydidnt.livejournal.com/69008883.html
Spoilers obviously...
I disagree with this. Someone like Bear McCreary would know how to make things work in the context of the show, and his themes often don't sound like themes at all. I think that such an approach would do a lot for the characterization of Westeros itself. Heck, I imagine he would go as far as to use instruments that would even sound like they came from a medieval fantasy setting, instead of relying on generic-sounding orchestrations or synths.
In any case, I was only replying to the original post about this idea... I don't want to add crap to this thread about fantasizing on what the show could have been like. It is what it is and it should be judged solely on that (barring comparisons to the books themselves, and the effectiveness of conveying across what the books did).
And enough with the nerd rage comments! I'm sick of how dismissive people are of those of us that raise any objection to what you'd have us believe is god's gift to TV audiences. While I wish I could like the show better, I'm happier to see polarizing opinions and people trying to back up viewpoints than 300 pages of people with nothing more constructive to say than how they just can't wait for x event.
JoJoShabadoo
Member
I also disagree with this, and I doubt you or anyone else truly believes this. If the music had a great score, people would say "all over my face" and "I can't stop listening to Robb's theme" and the like. It's not like the composer would put some cheery ass tune when Tyrion walks down a hall whistling.
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