Donny Hayabusa
Member
Huh?? Did I miss the scene where they captured Bran and his brother? If the burned hanging bodies really were bran's and his brothers then what the fuck is going on? I thought they burned two children to save face.
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Game of Thrones - Season 2 - George RR Martin's Song of Ice and Fire - Sundays on HBO
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Gen.Grievous
Member
So while reading you missed the part where Theon thinks about the millers boys looking like Bran and Rickon after Ramsay flayed their faces off and dipped them in tar?
Hmm...It wasn't a surprise to me. If anything GRRM telegraphed that (at least) something was off. Reek had taken some of Bran and Rickon's clothing and made a point of ending the chapter with Theon suddenly realizing what the intention was of showing it to him.
I wasn't sure they were alive but it was clear that something was afoot.
I wasn't sure they were alive but it was clear that something was afoot.
*This post marks the first time in my posting career here at GAF that I ever used the word "afoot"...Just thought I'd mention that...
I had no idea how that piece of clothing connected with Reek knowing where they were but I never doubted for a second that he believed he knew. Up to that point, Reek was never presented as a clever character. He was just a dumb stinky prisoner.
ThisWreckage
Banned
AlanzTalon
Member
to say it has gone down a dark path would be an understatement. 1.8 seasons in and the bitching is drowning out the discussion.
It doesn't help that the actress is taller than most of the cast either. :lol
I don't even get why the people who think this show is 'Legend of the Seeker'-level bad are even still watching and/or posting in here...
Oh, that's why. Because you're a hater that just enjoys ruining other people's fun. Classy.
It's not that you stop making mental comparisons to the books. It's that you stop expecting this to *be* the books. For a whole multitude of reasons this was never going to happen, and really, that's pretty much *always* the case. I used to read a LOT when I was younger and inevitably someone would make a movie of something I read. It didn't take long to recognize the simple fact that the transition between the mediums is just about always going to be altered ( I still remember being so disappointed at the dinosaurs left out of Jurassic Park, lol). Sometimes significantly so. Once you accept that it's easier to enjoy/judge something on its own merits. Much better to remove that weight off your shoulders ( of being mad that stuff changes). Especially since it was inevitable.
That's exactly what I mean. I'm not even necessarily going to disagree with the idea that perhaps the original book version is almost always the better medium to begin with. I seemed to find that to be the case more often than not. But that's irrelevant. Start watching for the version of the story this medium is trying to tell, instead of looking for something you've already seen and something it is not.
Jedeye Sniv
Banned
Even if you disregard the books completely, this show fares poorly when compared to HBO's greats. The problem is that there's simply too much shit going on for its own good, the cast of characters is massive, they are all spread too thin to have any semblance of proper character development. There are no running themes in any of the episodes, it's just going through the motions. Add in the bland direction/editing and mostly stoic/emotionless tone of nearly every character and it's meh.
I recently rewatched all of Deadwood and the difference is quality is abysmal between the two.
I recently rewatched all of Deadwood and the difference is quality is abysmal between the two.
So how do we account for the continuing positive, and oftentimes glowing, recaps and reviews each week from critics who watch a lot of TV? Are these critics lying to themselves or their readers? There seems to be a huge disconnect between what some people here feel about the quality of the show and what the general public and the critics feel about it. I'm genuinely curious to know why that is.
Well, Deadwood is only the best show ever, so that's a pretty fucking high bar. GoT is a third tier HBO show. And I say that with no intended disrespect to GoT, which is a fine show.
I just got a chance to watch episode 7 last night. I gotta say, the scene between Tyrion and Cersei was fantastic. They both pulled that off really well. I really feel bad for Tyrion - the only one with his wits about him in the castle, and despite his best attempts everything just goes wrong.
You pretty much have it right. Not trying to give anything big away, but the Starks "dominion" was up in the north and they were the closest of the lords to the Wall. So there's the Nights Watch, and then there's them, and then everyone else is further south. So the Starks are more familiar with past winters, and with the problems that come with them. It's also harder for them to farm up there, IIRC, and so they really have to plan ahead for the winter. Winters in that universe last years.
The "wight" that Jon Snow killed in season 1 is a small taste of what winter will bring. The rest of the kingdom in the south doesn't really believe any of it because most of them weren't alive when the last winter came, which is why the Night's Watch sent the wight's arm to Cersei/Joffrey.. They want them to take the threat seriously. And they know that it'll start above the wall where it's colder, and then the cold will gradually creep further south.
If anyone thinks that these are major spoilers, let me know and I'll tag them.
PairOfFilthySocks
Member
In that scene she has with the queen just after her first period, she's so big she looks like she could beat the living shit out of Cersei.
NathanMcMahon
Banned
Because they are professionals, really. They also have to analyze the show as its own entity and try to avoid the baggage of what came before. It also just comes down to opinion and there prevailing opinion is that it is a critical darling and very well-received by the public and critics alike, irregardless of the wailing and gnashing from a very minority hard-core fanbase who will never be happy.
Duane Cunningham
Member
Dude, come ON.
3rdman, you too. Don't just give shit away. Go back and spoiler your posts.
COK
No matter how obvious you geniuses think the Bran and Rickon fakeout is, book readers (though many probably suspect it) still won't know for sure until the show reveals it.
Forsaken82
Member
So i am not sure if t his has been touched on yet, but i am starting to wonder, seeing as how so much seems to be changed in dany's storyline from the book, what is the possibility that since shes met Pyat Pree shes (ACOK)
Just a thought...
actually been seeing visions from the house of the undying. I don't expect the house of the undying to be the acid trip event that it was in the book since it would require to much spoken inner monologue to make sense of everything that is happening, but they could easily rewrite it in such a way that it represents her worst nightmare... in this case losing her dragons and the majority of her Khalasar dead
Just a thought...
dead souls
Member
So much truth in this post. We're talking about the network that is responsible for (among other things) The Sopranos, The Wire, Deadwood, In Treatment, Curb Your Enthusiasm, and the better seasons of Six Feet Under and Oz.
Game of Thrones is decent, but it can't even begin to compare favorably with what HBO is capable of at its best.
I don't think that is the case because in the synopsis for ep20 it says
"Dany goes to a strange place". That almost certainly is referring to the House of the Undying.
Forsaken82
Member
well never mind then!
fuck you future episode synopsis! Ill be curious to see how they turn 90% inner monologue into understandable television
It is opinion but on one side we have people making legitimate points and on the other we have people going "You guys will just never be happy" or "look at these critics" or "you all only want to be just like the books!" or "HA you guys are in the minority"
Speaking of it being an adaptation, I wonder if it would be better if they just... drop some characters. Maybe not completely, but let them be side characters. And just focus on the big ones. Like just focus on the Starks, Tyrion, and Dany (ugh).
Don't spend your valuable time building Joffrey, Cersei, Tywin, random prostitutes, Theon (which would be a loss because he's been soooo good), Catelyn, etc.
Like, basically just do an adaptation of certain POVs. And give everyone else a minor supporting role. Then it would be less confusing and gives the general audience a manageable cast of main characters. People who really care and want to know more then have the books to learn more about the other characters.
Don't spend your valuable time building Joffrey, Cersei, Tywin, random prostitutes, Theon (which would be a loss because he's been soooo good), Catelyn, etc.
Like, basically just do an adaptation of certain POVs. And give everyone else a minor supporting role. Then it would be less confusing and gives the general audience a manageable cast of main characters. People who really care and want to know more then have the books to learn more about the other characters.
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
The show is great, my problem with it is that the episodes aren't really focused. At least not for most of this season. It feels like s1 had a better handle on "OK, the point of this episode is..."
I pains me a little bit to say this but I do think as a tv show it would be better off as you say, narrowing the cast and playing much more fast and loose with the source material. Keep the tone, some of the iconic events and don't change the characters, but break away from the structure of the book. I agree with Jett's criticisms that the show is spread too thin; episodes lack focus and there isn't enough time to generate any significant momentum for forward progression in a single story line when they're cutting between 5 or 6 different ones per episode. I think this is an insurmountable problem which is only going to get worse, and if the show does want to aspire to a place in the HBO pantheon it needs to do something about it.
As the Gutshot's point about the positive reviews the show receives, the answer is...well I don't know, but am glad that clearly most people are enjoying it. What I do know though is that there's been a whole host of legitimate criticisms of the show over the last few pages (many of which have nothing to do with book comparisons) that have been labeled as 'bitching' without any genuine rebuttals. I think maybe people are more lenient because of the show's huge ambition and production values, but I don't understand how anyone could hold up the writing, direction of structure (this season) to some of tv's top shows like Breaking Bad and say it comes out favourably.
edit: on a different note, I'm pleased to see the non-book thread has fully embraced Hodor and his awesomeness in spite of his appalling lack of screen time
bodyofanamerican
Member
Yeah, I'm really disappointed in this thread now. Would always be psyched to see it on pg1 and read whatever the latest shit was, but as someone just said, it's mostly bitching at this point. Really a shame.
I assume most of the critics are experiencing these brilliant stories for the first time, while those who have read the books can't be satisfied by just the surprises and plot twists. I honestly don't care about most of these changes. The problem is when they change something truly important. We still have more episodes to go but it looks as if [ACOK]
they have completely altered Jon's journey with the Halfhand. They have more episodes to redeem themselves, but if they don't manage to capture that part of Clash of Kings, I think they have definitely done a disservice to Jon's storyline.
I'm afraid for Memorial Day episode. It should be the absolute best for a wide audience, considering what it is about. I just hope that the Memorial Day weekend doesn't have people grilling and drinking too much to forget about GoT.
Luckily GoT is not subject to the whims of time slot ratings. Total viewership for the week through replays, On Demand and HBO Go are equally important.
"winter is coming" is not supposed to be taken completely literally, it's a metaphor for the difficulties the characters go through, especially the Starks since its their motto. This is not rocket science.
Emerson
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Nobody is saying that in the first place despite the fact that people like to complain about people saying it. Sure, I've seen it occasionally in other threads on GAF, but the person saying it is almost always shot down. This show is not as good as Breaking Bad, The Wire, or Deadwood. That doesn't make it a bad show.
evilromero
Member
Finally got to watch this last episode and I really enjoyed it. I didn't feel any of the negative elements listed here in this thread, and I'm a big fan of the books. I thought this episode was great personally, especially that disturbing ending,
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which to people who haven't read the book would seem damn depressing!
I feel it was pretty close last year. Season 1 was truly excellent imo, which is the basis for my disappointment with season 2 (so far). Also my point was more directed at the assertion of quality based of the mostly glowing reviews the show gets rather than specific people here.
bodyofanamerican
Member
Don't they usually skip holiday weekends and air it the following week?
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
So now you've gone from arguing against people comparing this show to those shows to saying you were the one doing so yourself.
I don't see the problem, we're talking about different seasons.
If her growth spurt doesn't stop she's going to be Hodor-sized by the finale.
JoJoShabadoo
Member
This is true. And I'm tired of all people criticizing this show being labeled as angry cynical nerds.
David Benioff, a showrunner/writer/producer of Game of Thrones, was in charge of writing X-Men Origins Wolverine. I mean, really. The movie that brought you the amnesia bullet.
It'll be fun when she's carrying around Hodor on her back.
There is a decent mix of book readers and non-book readers among the critical community. Almost all of them have been pretty consistent in their praise for the show. Of course, I don't think they are putting it in the same class as the Breaking Bad or The Wire, but most consider it a good, sometimes great, show.
Benioff only wrote the first draft. Reportedly, the studio came back with notes that he was resistant to, so they brought on Skip Woods, writer of dreck such as Hitman, Swordfish and The A-Team, to do the revisions. He was responsible for most of what you saw on screen.
Benioff also wrote the critically-acclaimed 25th Hour (both the novel and screenplay), so he's not a talentless hack.
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