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[evilromero]

I just want to reiterate something about the scene between Cat and Jamie. I think alot of people here are forgetting that a majority of the conversation that happens between them in ACOK happened in the first season of the show when Jamie was first captured.

This is true. They introduced a lot of ACOK elements in S1. I think people tend to forget that. Considering how richly detailed the books are I believe the show is doing a good job of bringing the more linear elements to surface. What I'm really curious about is how they'll smooth out AFFC/ADWD.

 

[Fuzzy]

I'd like to go on record in saying that this whole shit-storm of people complaining about the show is Cornballer's fault. If he didn't go away this week then he would've been here to stop you guys.

 

[NathanMcMahon]

This is true. And I'm tired of all people criticizing this show being labeled as angry cynical nerds.

David Benioff, a showrunner/writer/producer of Game of Thrones, was in charge of writing X-Men Origins Wolverine. I mean, really. The movie that brought you the amnesia bullet.

There is a lot more to that than what he wrote. His script was slaughtered by Fox.

Gutshot words it better up there. From what I've heard, he hates what they did to it and it's a sore point.

 

[Steelyuhas]

The show is great, my problem with it is that the episodes aren't really focused. At least not for most of this season. It feels like s1 had a better handle on "OK, the point of this episode is..."

A "flaw" of the source material. The first book is quite focused, and mostly centered around Ned and the things that he and his family are dealing with. Book two has characters much more spread out, more characters, not really a single central character, and more plot lines.

I think it's taken most of this season for myself and others to fully realize how much harder this book was to adapt than the first one.

 

[Socreges]

Re: winter is coming

It refers to an actual season that is on its way. Seasons last for years in ASOIAF. The Starks also use it metaphorically (foreboding) and its also used as foreshadowing by GRRM, but yeah... an actual winter is coming.

 

[Harry Potter]

I'd like to go on record in saying that this whole shit-storm of people complaining about the show is Cornballer's fault. If he didn't go away this week then he would've been here to stop you guys.

Cornballer's absence makes me think of Robb being gone and the men getting drunk and possibly killing Jamie.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Man, Oona Chaplin is beautiful, I met her last year when he previewed a small local film in my city and she was very nice with everyone.

You learn something new every day; I didn't know she was Charlie Chaplin's granddaughter. I wasn't aware that Shae did hardcore porn either.

 

[Socreges]

Cornballer's absence makes me think of Robb being gone and the men getting drunk and possibly killing Jamie.

....is Cornballer off fighting a war in the Mad Men thread?

 

[apana]

There is a decent mix of book readers and non-book readers among the critical community. Almost all of them have been pretty consistent in their praise for the show. Of course, I don't think they are putting it in the same class as the Breaking Bad or The Wire, but most consider it a good, sometimes great, show.



Benioff only wrote the first draft. Reportedly, the studio came back with notes that he was resistant to, so they brought on Skip Woods, writer of dreck such as Hitman, Swordfish and The A-Team, to do the revisions. He was responsible for most of what you saw on screen.

Benioff also wrote the critically-acclaimed 25th Hour (both the novel and screenplay), so he's not a talentless hack.

The notable critics and those who get attention are the ones who have probably not read the book. Personally I think the show is great and last episode was my favorite episode of the season but when I think they make some shitty adaptation choices I am gonna go ahead and call them on it.

 

[gutshot]

You learn something new every day; I didn't know she was Charlie Chaplin's granddaughter. I wasn't aware that Shae did hardcore porn either.

More GoT fun facts:

Daniel Portman (Podrick Payne) is Ron Donachie's (Rodrik Cassel) son.
Sophie Turner (Sansa Stark) adopted the dog that played her direwolf, Lady.
Kristian Nairn (Hodor) is an avid World of Warcraft gamer.
Aflie Allen (Theon Greyjoy) is singer Lily Allen's brother.
Jerome Flynn (Bronn) was a member of the UK 90s pop duo Robson & Jerome.

The notable critics and those who get attention are the ones who have probably not read the book. Personally I think the show is great and last episode was my favorite episode of the season but when I think they make some shitty adaptation choices I am gonna go ahead and call them on it.

Not to belabor the point, but here is a list of notable critics broken down by whether they have or have not read the books. Again, all of these critics really like the show.

Book readers
Jace Lacob - The Daily Beast
Mo Ryan - Huffington Post
Todd VanDerWerff - The AV Club
James Hibberd - Entertainment Weekly

Non-book readers
Alan Sepinwall - HitFix
Andy Greenwald - Grantland
Tim Goodman - The Hollywood Reporter
Matt Zoller Seitz - Vulture
Ken Tucker - Entertainment Weekly

As you can see, it's pretty mixed.

 

[EleventhDoctor]

More GoT fun facts:

Daniel Portman (Podrick Payne) is Ron Donachie's (Rodrik Cassel) son.
Sophie Turner (Sansa Stark) adopted the dog that played her direwolf, Lady.
Kristian Nairn (Hodor) is an avid World of Warcraft gamer.
Aflie Allen (Theon Greyjoy) is singer Lily Allen's brother.
Jerome Flynn (Bronn) was a member of the UK 90s pop duo Robson & Jerome.

That's awesome. I bet he is good at tanking.

 

[apana]

More GoT fun facts:

Daniel Portman (Podrick Payne) is Ron Donachie's (Rodrik Cassel) son.
Sophie Turner (Sansa Stark) adopted the dog that played her direwolf, Lady.
Kristian Nairn (Hodor) is an avid World of Warcraft gamer.
Aflie Allen (Theon Greyjoy) is singer Lily Allen's brother.
Jerome Flynn (Bronn) was a member of the UK 90s pop duo Robson & Jerome.

Some other facts:

Kristian Nairn (Hodor) had hearing problems as a child.

Sophie Turner (Sansa) had a crush on Eminem and Draco Malfoy.

Art Parkinson (Rickon) is a huge fan of Alfie Allen.

Miltos Yerolemou (Syrio) was typecasted as a Neanderthal.

 

[gutshot]

That's awesome. I bet he is good at tanking.

Haha! His main is a gnome mage. So not so much!

If you look up interviews with him, he gives out his server and character names, so if you feel like gaming with Hodor, you can do so. I've done it and he's a really nice guy.

 

[PhoenixDark]

This season is better than S1, and I think the last ep was damn good but overall the show does have some problems. The writing is very inconsistent and of course the directing is often poor; I'm glad David Nutter won't be directing any of the final episodes this season. Some episodes manage to express a theme that sticks, such as last week with the general "imprisonment" theme, or power in previous eps.

These are problems that, to me, hold the show back from being as good as it could be. The show in of itself is such a risk, and the production is so epic, yet the show rarely takes risks (from a technical perspective) and rarely looks epic. Alan Taylor accomplished both with all of his episodes, but many of the rest have been shot and handled like a regular television drama.

 

[Steelyuhas]

This season is better than S1, and I think the last ep was damn good but overall the show does have some problems. The writing is very inconsistent and of course the directing is often poor; I'm glad David Nutter won't be directing any of the final episodes this season. Some episodes manage to express a theme that sticks, such as last week with the general "imprisonment" theme, or power in previous eps.

These are problems that, to me, hold the show back from being as good as it could be. The show in of itself is such a risk, and the production is so epic, yet the show rarely takes risks (from a technical perspective) and rarely looks epic. Alan Taylor accomplished both with all of his episodes, but many of the rest have been shot and handled like a regular television drama.

Yeah I'm very excited for the final three episodes with Alan Taylor directing two of them and Neil Marshall the other.

The directing has definitely been holding the show back on a few occasions this year.

 

[Kammie]

Yeah I'm very excited for the final three episodes with Alan Taylor directing two of them and Neil Marshall the other.

The fight scenes on the Centurion trailer looked pretty good. Having a guy with this type of experience is certainly promising.

Edit: And watching a battle on Youtube, the over-the-top gore will definitely fit right in!

 

[ezrarh]

Yeah I'm very excited for the final three episodes with Alan Taylor directing two of them and Neil Marshall the other.

The directing has definitely been holding the show back on a few occasions this year.

Yeah, definitely excited to see what Neil Marshall can do because apparently he's a specialist at doing battles with limited budget and I enjoyed Centurion.

 

[biosnake20]

Since we know that they are changing things from the books, they should make the important change of bringing back

Spoiler

Syrio.

Also, Leaked audition tape confirms Edmure Tully will be cast

 

[Big-E]

Since we know that they are changing things from the books, they should make the important change of bringing back

Spoiler

Syrio.

Also, Leaked audition tape confirms Edmure Tully will be cast

Series Spoiler

Spoiler

They already have. They got the actor who played Syrio to play Jaqen at the end of season 1. He was the guy underneath the hood in the cart. The show played up the whole Syrio=Jaqen thing.

 

[FStop7]

Some other facts:

Hodor Hodor (Hodor) Hodor Hodor Hodor Hodor Hodor.

OK, that's better.

 

[Steelyuhas]

Since we know that they are changing things from the books, they should make the important change of bringing back

Spoiler

Syrio.

Also, Leaked audition tape confirms Edmure Tully will be cast

I think that audition tape confirms a growing fear about events towards the ends of this season. ACOK/ASOS

Spoiler

That audition tape has Robb upset that Edmure cut off The Mountain from coming west, not Tywin. It appears that in the show, Robb wants to draw The Mountain west instead of Tywin, and Tywin never tries to go west before being held up by Edmure, and then getting the word of Stannis' attack and turning south. That is a pretty big disappointment to me as it significantly lessens the importance of Robb's actions in season 2.

In other news, it's great to get a confirmation that Edmure is going to be in the show. Hopefully we also get

Spoiler

The Blackfish

.

 

[Snake]

I think that audition tape confirms a growing fear about events towards the ends of this season. ACOK/ASOS

Spoiler

That audition tape has Robb upset that Edmure cut off The Mountain from coming west, not Tywin. It appears that in the show, Robb wants to draw The Mountain west instead of Tywin, and Tywin never tries to go west before being held up by Edmure, and then getting the word of Stannis' attack and turning south. That is a pretty big disappointment to me as it significantly lessens the importance of Robb's actions in season 2.

I think that's a fairly premature concern. First of all it's just an audition line, and it's not like those are guaranteed to be in the show. See: Rory McCann's audition.

 

[Angry Grimace]

If her growth spurt doesn't stop she's going to be Hodor-sized by the finale.

She is like 16, I don't think she's getting much bigger. I looked it up after she looked so huge in the Shae scene and it said she was 5'9". That's pretty tall for a girl, I mean she was basically towering over Cersei in the last episode.

 

[Steelyuhas]

I think that's a fairly premature concern. First of all it's just an audition line, and it's not like those are guaranteed to be in the show. See: Rory McCann's audition.

Yeah it probably is, but I've been fearing about everything to do with ACOK

Spoiler

Robb's war, as I feel they really haven't done it will this season.

 

[Snake]

Yeah it probably is, but I've been fearing about everything to do with ACOK

Spoiler

Robb's war, as I feel they really haven't done it will this season.

Actually, I retract what I said. *ACOK/ASOS*

Spoiler

I got confused at first because the Clash chapter that mentions Edmure's engagements with Tywin's forces does in fact mention The Mountain as being in the lead, and the fact that he is badly wounded in that battle.

But I was thinking of something aside from your main concern. If they're going to keep Edmure's strategic fumble in the show, it would indeed have to be applied to a new circumstance that has no bearing on this season (since I doubt they're going to mention Edmure out of nowhere next episode). So you're at the very least half right. I still think it's possible that they do something else significant to get Tywin to intercept Stannis' forces by the end of Episode 9, but I don't know what the main cause for that would be.

 

[duckroll]

Caught up to the latest episode yesterday. Don't really know what to say. I can't really add much to the discussion other than to say all the problems the series has just gets worse with each passing episode. This really is like a Showtime series which just happened to air on HBO. Lol.

 

[Pollux]

Caught up to the latest episode yesterday. Don't really know what to say. I can't really add much to the discussion other than to say all the problems the series has just gets worse with each passing episode. This really is like a Showtime series which just happened to air on HBO. Lol.

Which problems?

 

[duckroll]

Which problems?

There are a bunch of problems with the show. There isn't enough budget for the scope, so it feels cheap whenever there are big sets or locations which are meant to be much more expansive or lavish. The acting is pretty awful for a bunch of characters, especially the ones they are focusing on lately. Lots of cheesy stuff with regards to the sex and violence. Those are the things which weaken it as a stand alone production. For those familiar with the books there are so many changes and plots/characters being cut that it really doesn't feel like a satisfying adaptation either.

 

[NathanMcMahon]

The good thing is the show is so successful that no matter what we get more. Can't go wrong with that.

 

[brentech]

Damn, GAF going all 'Dexter' on GOT.

Newsflash: It can't possibly be exactly like the books.

 

[Big-E]

Caught up to the latest episode yesterday. Don't really know what to say. I can't really add much to the discussion other than to say all the problems the series has just gets worse with each passing episode. This really is like a Showtime series which just happened to air on HBO. Lol.

That's a good way to put it. Something just feels off about this show now compared to the other HBO shows.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

Newsflash: It can't possibly be exactly like the books.

this is not the problem with the show.

 

[JoJoShabadoo]

this is not the problem with the show.

Yep. It's a poor argument. I don't know why people so defensive about the show don't actually defend it.

 

[cj_iwakura]

I think Season 1 was largely a great adaptation, despite small nitpicks(Tower of Joy for instance).

Season 2 is taking a LOT of liberties, and removing a ton of small nuances by comparison(not having Stannis' daughter for one).

I understand why, however, and realize they're doing the best they can in limited means. The important bits are still well handled(Jaqen, Tyrion).

 

[Vyer]

this is not the problem with the show.

There are quite a few people in here who consider it to be a problem, I'd imagine he was referring to them.

 

[Big-E]

There are quite a few people in here who consider it to be a problem, I'd imagine he was referring to them.

And I don't think anyone in here thinks the show is perfect outside of the changes. The changes are just one of the problems and the changes are only a problem because they are often making scenes worse than they should be. I don't hate every change, Ros I feel is fine and I think the show hasn't lost too much neglecting the Reed children or the Tully's, but some of the changes have been bad and some of the directing and acting has been comical.

 

[duckroll]

I think when you approach any adaptation, there are two ways about it, and it's also possible to have a mix of both ways. One way is to do a very faithful adaptation that takes both the tone and the sequence of events from the original material and presents it on screen in the best way possible. Another way is to take the essence of the material, and while keeping true to the tone and characters of the original material, craft a similar but unique story which best fits the vision of the adaptation. I'm not the sort of purist who nitpicks at every minor change or a minor character moment being cut out, or someone's eye color being wrong. I enjoy both sorts of adaptations, and in most cases I find that I prefer the latter format because I don't like watching the exact same thing I already read.

The problem I feel with GOT is that it is neither. It does not satisfy either condition. If taken as a straight adaptation, it takes too many liberties and cuts too much development and content to satisfy someone looking for a faithful adaptation. If taken as a loose adaptation that remains faithful to the tone of the books, that doesn't really work either. It feels too cheesy and cheap, the acting quality is inconsistent, and the season thus far really lacks high points of appealing drama or intrigue. Instead it's scene after scene of characters with bad actors doing or saying dumb or bad stuff.

The high point of every episode is basically a) the opening credits, b) Tyrion and Arya's scenes. Everything else pretty much... well... sucks imo.

 

[jett]

I think when you approach any adaptation, there are two ways about it, and it's also possible to have a mix of both ways. One way is to do a very faithful adaptation that takes both the tone and the sequence of events from the original material and presents it on screen in the best way possible. Another way is to take the essence of the material, and while keeping true to the tone and characters of the original material, craft a similar but unique story which best fits the vision of the adaptation. I'm not the sort of purist who nitpicks at every minor change or a minor character moment being cut out, or someone's eye color being wrong. I enjoy both sorts of adaptations, and in most cases I find that I prefer the latter format because I don't like watching the exact same thing I already read.

The problem I feel with GOT is that it is neither. It does not satisfy either condition. If taken as a straight adaptation, it takes too many liberties and cuts too much development and content to satisfy someone looking for a faithful adaptation. If taken as a loose adaptation that remains faithful to the tone of the books, that doesn't really work either. It feels too cheesy and cheap, the acting quality is inconsistent, and the season thus far really lacks high points of appealing drama or intrigue. Instead it's scene after scene of characters with bad actors doing or saying dumb or bad stuff.

The high point of every episode is basically a) the opening credits, b) Tyrion and Arya's scenes. Everything else pretty much... well... sucks imo.

Not anymore! It's all rushed and scattershot...just like the show itself!

 

[Big-E]

Good post duckroll. For some reason though I was liking the show up until the last two episodes. I hope they can turn it around but who knows.

 

[Vyer]

And I don't think anyone in here thinks the show is perfect outside of the changes. The changes are just one of the problems and the changes are only a problem because they are often making scenes worse than they should be. I don't hate every change, Ros I feel is fine and I think the show hasn't lost too much neglecting the Reed children or the Tully's, but some of the changes have been bad and some of the directing and acting has been comical.

I mostly disagree - as do a lot of critics it seems - on the thoughts about the acting or it feeling 'cheap/comical'', but that's a fair opinion to have and people are entitled to it. Again, some people are clearly considering the deviations from the book as a major issue, and i think those are the folks being referred to. For those who are really bothered by such a thing primarily, the show never really stood a chance.

 

[Discotheque]

Spoiler

So while reading you missed the part where Theon thinks about the millers boys looking like Bran and Rickon after Ramsay flayed their faces off and dipped them in tar?

I read it a while ago now. I may have not been as surprised as I initially said I was. But still for TV....that shit should have been handled better as a cliffhanger.

 

[Big-E]

I mostly disagree - as do a lot of critics it seems - on the thoughts about the acting or it feeling 'cheap/comical'', but that's a fair opinion to have and people are entitled to it. Again, some people are clearly considering the deviations from the book as a major issue, and i think those are the folks being referred to. For those who are really bothered by such a thing primarily, the show never really stood a chance.

I might be wrong but I don't remember this thread being so divisive last year.

 

[Steelyuhas]

Actually, I retract what I said. *ACOK/ASOS*

Spoiler

I got confused at first because the Clash chapter that mentions Edmure's engagements with Tywin's forces does in fact mention The Mountain as being in the lead, and the fact that he is badly wounded in that battle.

But I was thinking of something aside from your main concern. If they're going to keep Edmure's strategic fumble in the show, it would indeed have to be applied to a new circumstance that has no bearing on this season (since I doubt they're going to mention Edmure out of nowhere next episode). So you're at the very least half right. I still think it's possible that they do something else significant to get Tywin to intercept Stannis' forces by the end of Episode 9, but I don't know what the main cause for that would be.

ACOK/ASOS

Spoiler

Yeah, we'll have to just wait and see, but I'm concerned that especially with how they have basically avoided Robb's war and what the fuck he's doing this season, that they will somehow lessen the impact of his war actions this season. I mean Robb gets fucked by the Greyjoys, and probably shouldn't have sent Theon to Pyke, but he has a very good plan to attempt to destroy Tywin's forces/capture or kill him in ACOK and eventually Tywin takes the bait, but Edmure holds him up, which ruins Robb's chance at victory over the Lannisters. It really bothers me that they haven't covered this in the show.

 

[Vyer]

I might be wrong but I don't remember this thread being so divisive last year.

Possibly. But, really, the first season took a lot less liberties with the story than this one.

 

[apana]

Season 1 was better, I know it was a lot easier to film season 1 but some of the directors besides Alan Taylor should have returned. I liked Tim Van Patten, don't know why nobody else did. Also I imagine the budget goes by quickly in a show like this. Hopefully they get another raise for next season, lets go from 70 to 80 million. The real problem that irks me is they are making some changes that don't add anything to the story. I'm alright with changes if there is a reason for them but stuff like [ACOK]

Spoiler

Jon's storyline being fucked around with just makes things more complicated and they gave up on an opportunity to tell one of the strongest story arcs in ACOK.

Hope they don't make a colossal mistake for season 3 I am half expecting them to make.

 

[duckroll]

Season 1 was better, I know it was a lot easier to film season 1 but some of the directors besides Alan Taylor should have returned. I liked Tim Van Patten, don't know why nobody else did. Also I imagine the budget goes by quickly in a show like this. Hopefully they get another raise for next season, lets go from 70 to 80 million. The real problem that irks me is they are making some changes that don't add anything to the story. I'm alright with changes if there is a reason for them but stuff like [ACOK]

Spoiler

Jon's storyline being fucked around with just makes things more complicated and they gave up on an opportunity to tell one of the strongest story arcs in ACOK.

Hope they don't make a colossal mistake for season 3 I am half expecting them to make.

I agree. They need the make changes for the next season:

- Better directors with more experience
- Raise the budget, goddamnit, raise the budget!

Tim Van Patten is probably too busy with Boardwalk Empire, so I doubt he's coming back. He's basically an A-director for HBO shows, and GOT seems to be getting the budget and focus of a B-series at HBO despite the strong viewership.

 

[Kosmo]

**SPOILERS IF YOU HAVEN'T WATCHED EP 7"

Finally got around to this week's episode. How anyone would think that was Bran and Rickon at the end is beyond me - they made a point to not only mention that there were two young kids there, but then actually showed them running into a barn (or whatever) when Theon arrived and the dogs lost the scent.

The Tywin/Arya scenes are soooo good.

I haven't read the books so I come at this as simply a TV show. Two things I don't like were the killing of Renly by the shadow thing and then the dopplegangers in Qarth. I can get behind the dragons, but these two things seemed a little too much "magic" for me to get behind.

 

[theignoramus]

Possibly. But, really, the first season took a lot less liberties with the story than this one.

Im reading the first book now. it's different for me because I've seen almost two whole seasons without reading the books, so I dont have characters in my mind that I cant reconcile with HBO's characters. But fuck me, as I read the book, I think to myself, man did they ever stay faithful to alot of this book, right down to the individual lines of dialogue and "shit did they ever nail the casting." every character HBO cast seems so right, minus Cersei. also not sure why Khal Drogo's first sex scene with Dany is basically like a rape when it's described totally different in the book, that was kind of off putting.

 

[Steelyuhas]

I agree. They need the make changes for the next season:

- Better directors with more experience
- Raise the budget, goddamnit, raise the budget!

Tim Van Patten is probably too busy with Boardwalk Empire, so I doubt he's coming back. He's basically an A-director for HBO shows, and GOT seems to be getting the budget and focus of a B-series at HBO despite the strong viewership.

Maybe this season's ratings will convince HBO to make an effort to schedule some of their better directors for Game of Thrones in the future. They are going to need it next year as well, because with Alan Taylor doing Thor 2, he will apparently only be directing a single episode next season.

 

[jett]

ACOK is simply a bigger, much more complicated book to film, and it only gets "worse" after this one. Too many characters, too many locations, too many plotlines. And the show has decided to deal with nearly all of them. 60 minutes is not enough to develop any of this, and the geniuses behind the show decided to give equal time and importance to everybody. The result? You end up giving importance to nobody. The show is moving ahead to nowhere. You don't see anything conflating to any particular point. Despite all the changes in S2 this is still a show that is trying its darnedest to be faithful to the source, and it simply can't be. It's not possible. So now we end up with a mess.

On a more personal note, Jon fucking blows. I don't like what either the actor or the writers are doing to this character. The guy's out-starking Ned Stark. So fucking dull. This could apply to a lot of the personalities in the show, actually...and the direction of the show itself. Showtime's little-watched "historical" show "The Borgias" is shot with more flair and style than this thing.