As someone else mentioned, Seasons 3 and 4 are going to be more demanding and HBO would like to at least sustain the same level of quality, if not make it better. They'll definitely have the means and interest in doing so.
[edit] beaten
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Game of Thrones - Season 2 - George RR Martin's Song of Ice and Fire - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter Cornballer
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[edit] beaten
Mike Works
Member
Just watched tonight's episode, and it was absolutely terrific (however, I'll echo what another poster said and say that I really wish Stannis had said, "Renly?!" when Loras showed up; the only way I knew it was him was because I'd read the books).
However, I do have one question:
The wildfire was Joffrey's plan, was it not (in the TV show)? I'm a little confused on this since they changed it from the book, but AFAIK (in the TV show) Joffrey had planned to use the wildfire, Tyrion discovered it all and told the old pyromancer "you work for me now".
So perhaps the boat was Tyrion's idea, but why was Joffrey surprised when the wildfire plan happened? Wasn't he more than aware of it?
However, I do have one question:
The wildfire was Joffrey's plan, was it not (in the TV show)? I'm a little confused on this since they changed it from the book, but AFAIK (in the TV show) Joffrey had planned to use the wildfire, Tyrion discovered it all and told the old pyromancer "you work for me now".
So perhaps the boat was Tyrion's idea, but why was Joffrey surprised when the wildfire plan happened? Wasn't he more than aware of it?
Chuck Norris
Banned
It was Cersei's plan not Joffrey
What I liked was that everyone on Team Stannis was smart enough to realize that it wasn't Joffrey or Cersei they were fighting against and they damn well knew Tyrion was the one behind the operations on the lannister side. Just goes to show how little respect he gets from his own family.
narcosis219
Member
I stopped half way through ASoS about a year ago and pretty much forgot all the minor characters/even the main plot.
I even forgot about the huge wildfire bomb. I swore it was just the jars being flung into the water.
I really don't want to start over again, but damnit, I might have to. All of the plot is all messed up in my head in terms of timeline. Why it gotta be so long?!
Also, Cersei wanted to give Tommen Nightshade so that he would go peacefully, right?
I even forgot about the huge wildfire bomb. I swore it was just the jars being flung into the water.
I really don't want to start over again, but damnit, I might have to. All of the plot is all messed up in my head in terms of timeline. Why it gotta be so long?!
Also, Cersei wanted to give Tommen Nightshade so that he would go peacefully, right?
Yes. She got the vial from the maester toward the start of the show. 1 drop for nerves, 3 drops for sleep 10 drops for . . .
I agree, she and the Hound were great. Also this was the first time in a long time where I thought of Cersei as Cersei and not Lena Headey's Cersei.
Amazing episode tonight, almost perfect in every way. The battle was very different from the book, but I didn't think about it at all during the episode. High points for me were "Quarterman", the wildfire explosion, along with Stannis leading his men in battle.
Did anyone else also get the feeling that Cersei was going to kill Joffrey during the siege? Her previous conversations with Tyrion and Sansa really made me feel like she was going to use this opportunity to get rid of him.
Did anyone else also get the feeling that Cersei was going to kill Joffrey during the siege? Her previous conversations with Tyrion and Sansa really made me feel like she was going to use this opportunity to get rid of him.
Just finished watching it. All things considered, this turned out 100 times better than I was expecting given everything else that preceded it this season.
You can still tell where they had to work around budget for the battle, but for all the constraints they had, it was incredible. There were about 30 min from the start to the end of the battle, which is more time than a film will typically devote to one, and it was interesting how they handled it. It wasn't all cinematic slow-motion battle shots--they bothered to show the confusion and lack of morale of the soldiers in a way that I thought felt pretty real.
The way the wildfire panned out was great, and the alternate plan manages to justify the lack of the chain. I still prefer the chain, but this worked out great and was a real "Oh shit" type of moment. I guess my only complaint is that Davos didn't get a chance to fight... would have liked to see that.
Some highlights... Stannis was fantastic, he was kicking ass and taking names! The cinematography was incredible and for once it finally felt like they weren't filming the entire episode in the same three reused sets--there was a real sense that this was an actual castle. And the best thing, incredibly--Cersei!!!! I can't believe it, this is the Cersei from the books! Instead of being bitchy with a frown we finally got the cold-blooded conniving bitch, and I loved it. I particularly loved the final scene on the throneroom. The deus ex machina Tywin appearance was kind of cheesy and rushed, but it was a really artistic moment.
GRRM made a true difference. It's amazing how much better these original scenes are compared to the crap that we've been getting this season. And just when the exposition began to get a little heavy, the script became self-aware of it and somehow managed to cut the people off. lol. Incredible. I also really liked the stronger use of language, it felt a little out of place at first but it made things feel a lot grittier.
Joffrey was fantastic, too. He's one of the best actors they have working on this. And the Hound finally got some decent characterization, it was about damn time. They also made his scars look a lot grittier, it was the first time I felt him come off as a bit menacing.
Tiny reservations aside, this episode was GREAT. Considering the fact this is TV, they totally pulled it off, and this was one of the trickiest things from the series to get right. Hats off.
You can still tell where they had to work around budget for the battle, but for all the constraints they had, it was incredible. There were about 30 min from the start to the end of the battle, which is more time than a film will typically devote to one, and it was interesting how they handled it. It wasn't all cinematic slow-motion battle shots--they bothered to show the confusion and lack of morale of the soldiers in a way that I thought felt pretty real.
The way the wildfire panned out was great, and the alternate plan manages to justify the lack of the chain. I still prefer the chain, but this worked out great and was a real "Oh shit" type of moment. I guess my only complaint is that Davos didn't get a chance to fight... would have liked to see that.
Some highlights... Stannis was fantastic, he was kicking ass and taking names! The cinematography was incredible and for once it finally felt like they weren't filming the entire episode in the same three reused sets--there was a real sense that this was an actual castle. And the best thing, incredibly--Cersei!!!! I can't believe it, this is the Cersei from the books! Instead of being bitchy with a frown we finally got the cold-blooded conniving bitch, and I loved it. I particularly loved the final scene on the throneroom. The deus ex machina Tywin appearance was kind of cheesy and rushed, but it was a really artistic moment.
GRRM made a true difference. It's amazing how much better these original scenes are compared to the crap that we've been getting this season. And just when the exposition began to get a little heavy, the script became self-aware of it and somehow managed to cut the people off. lol. Incredible. I also really liked the stronger use of language, it felt a little out of place at first but it made things feel a lot grittier.
Joffrey was fantastic, too. He's one of the best actors they have working on this. And the Hound finally got some decent characterization, it was about damn time. They also made his scars look a lot grittier, it was the first time I felt him come off as a bit menacing.
Tiny reservations aside, this episode was GREAT. Considering the fact this is TV, they totally pulled it off, and this was one of the trickiest things from the series to get right. Hats off.
Ape Gone Insane
Member
Do we know how profitable the show is for HBO and how good the ratings/viewer levels are?
Tim the Wiz
Banned
One of two already-legendary episodes of television, on the same day. Just brilliant. It met some pretty steep expectations, and gave me a fresh appreciation for Stannis - we don't see what kind of general he is, in the midst of battle, with such specificity, in the books; interesting to see GRRM depict him as one who fights in the van - and Tywin, although with the latter, it could just be Dance's sheer brilliance. Lena arrested all doubts, once and for all; Dinklage was in his element at every turn; and Bronn and The Hound were given the material they deserve.
And never mind the wildfire, that closing scene was perfect.
Oh man, this is going to be so good. By the old gods and the new, GRRM should write it, too.
And never mind the wildfire, that closing scene was perfect.
Oh man, this is going to be so good. By the old gods and the new, GRRM should write it, too.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
SERIES
Not really. No show-only viewers have any real understanding of what that song is, what it's called, or what it's about. I'm very glad they're introducing it this early but it needs more context still.
So has there ever been any mention of the possibility of Neil Marshall doing any episodes next season, or is he only in it for this big battle really?
Pff? He is her son. If anything she was going ot off her youngest tommen and herself before being caught. She only wanted to hide and protect Joeffery from dying in battle.
Realized I haven't commented on the episode last night, with Mad Men right after (Sunday nights are now the best nights), but that was the best episode of the series imo. It also kinda demonstrates that the show works much better when the plot doesn't jump around constantly between disconnected arcs.
I think the only negative I could say about it is that I found it very unbelievable that Stannis would lead the second charge like that, including being the first to scale the wall.
Loved the mini-bits of foreshadowing this episode, especially
(SOS spoiler)
I think the only negative I could say about it is that I found it very unbelievable that Stannis would lead the second charge like that, including being the first to scale the wall.
Loved the mini-bits of foreshadowing this episode, especially
Tommen as puppet king to Cersei.
(SOS spoiler)
They're also making Shae too likeable I feel, which is a surprise considering I hated her early on. I honestly can't see her character betraying Tyrion later.
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
Martells and Greyjoys.
The more interesting Greyjoys haven't even appeared on the show.
I had far too high expectations coming into this episode that I thought it was awful. I'm only now starting to accept that it was pretty good, that explosion was spectacular.
Next episode looks far better to me, can't wait to finally see the house of the undying, from that promo alone it looks good.
Also, I'm rooting for the Starks & the Targs.
Next episode looks far better to me, can't wait to finally see the house of the undying, from that promo alone it looks good.
Also, I'm rooting for the Starks & the Targs.
Oh, I forgot about the Greyjoys.
heliosRAzi
Banned
I can't wait for Ned to come back as the God of Thunder
Misterinenja
Member
Holy shit I can't believe I just watched an episode of a TV show.
Phantast2k
Member
Indeed. If Arya, Snow Tyrion and Daenerys (& their sidekicks) could somehow form a family I'd root for that family, lol
But I do sympathize with the Starks due to their "down-to-earthness".
/edit
great ep, makes me want to pick up the book again.
I loved last season, my only real issue was knocking out Tyrion during the battle when he led the clansmen. (Really pissed me off, would have been better off screen than that).
Honestly have been extremely disappointed this season, but this episode was so great that I can forgive many of the issues (not dumb shit like not showing cat/robb hear about bran/rickon before their mistakes).
Tyrion/Joff/Bronn/Sandor/Cersei/Davos/Stannis all were basically fucking perfect this episode.
Tyrion in battle and his go kill the brave men line? First time all season I got the same feeling I got last season.
Even though last nights episode was great many of the changes (some just idiocy, some due to budget) are why I won't be buying the season 2 blu ray.
Honestly have been extremely disappointed this season, but this episode was so great that I can forgive many of the issues (not dumb shit like not showing cat/robb hear about bran/rickon before their mistakes).
Tyrion/Joff/Bronn/Sandor/Cersei/Davos/Stannis all were basically fucking perfect this episode.
Tyrion in battle and his go kill the brave men line? First time all season I got the same feeling I got last season.
Even though last nights episode was great many of the changes (some just idiocy, some due to budget) are why I won't be buying the season 2 blu ray.
cartoon_soldier
Member
Just re-watched parts of the episode. Ending was perfect too.
~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
Fuck the King's guard
Fuck the City
Fuck the king
keeping.it.real.
Fuck the City
Fuck the king
keeping.it.real.
heliosRAzi
Banned
Outdoor Miner
Member
What an amazing episode. Fuck it, let GRRM write all of next season, not like he's writing WoW now anyways.
So glad to see the Hound get some good screen time. His "fuck the king" delivery was perfect. This episode gave me faith that they will do Book 3 great justice now that it'll have 20 episodes to breath with.
So glad to see the Hound get some good screen time. His "fuck the king" delivery was perfect. This episode gave me faith that they will do Book 3 great justice now that it'll have 20 episodes to breath with.
What an amazing episode. Fuck it, let GRRM write all of next season, not like he's writing WoW now anyways.
The eps GRRM has written have always been the best even though I don't find out until after usually.
Spoiler preview for next week
Holy shit at Theon screaming in the preview, going to be great
your voice is like The National!?
a.) Go get yourself a career in singing yo
b.) record yourself singing Rains of Castamere in this style and put it up on youtube, I'm genuinely curious!
Go! start a band! make money!
Ahh is he popular? Yeah I sound like that based on the credits song. I've never heard of rains of castamere but I might give it ago when I have time.
Future PhaZe
Member
What an amazing episode. Fuck it, let GRRM write all of next season, not like he's writing WoW now anyways.
So glad to see the Hound get some good screen time. His "fuck the king" delivery was perfect. This episode gave me faith that they will do Book 3 great justice now that it'll have 20 episodes to breath with.
20 episodes?
The Starkss. They have Arya, Rob, Jon, Brann and Catelyn; and they had Ned. Lannisters have Jaimie, Cersei, Joffrey and all the no-name cousins so even Tyrion and Tywin can't save them. Baratheons I only like Robert and his oldest kid.
Split in two seasons.
IAmtheFMan
Member
...Joffrey? or did you mean Gendry?
Yup.
http://wicnet.tumblr.com/post/23655576387/tywinning-the-rains-of-castomere-by-the
Here is the song for you
and here is the lyrics
And who are you, the proud lord said,
that I must bow so low?
Only a cat of a different coat,
that's all the truth I know.
In a coat of gold or a coat of red,
a lion still has claws,
And mine are long and sharp, my lord,
as long and sharp as yours.
And so he spoke, and so he spoke,
that lord of Castamere,
But now the rains weep o'er his hall,
with no one there to hear.
Yes now the rains weep o'er his hall,
and not a soul to hear.
grimshawish
Banned
Obviously the chain was never going to be an aspect. The wild fire was enough and the changes in how its used really works well.
I think though Cersei should never have been involved in those plans; just because obviously without the giant chain, Tyrion's grand strategy isn't so much his own. Which takes away from him slightly.
First half - Excellent, fucking amazing - it'll get a fuck tonn of awards (maybe not best director though) for this alone.
Second half - meh. Tyrion's 'side attack' was dreadful, and just the whole seige didn't work. I actually found Tyrions wee ambush hilariously bad; which was helped by the joke at the end tbh, but still made no sense.
Why do Stannis's men stand back? Why is he leading such a small band over? Surely he'd be looking to line up for the attack? Going together, instead they allow Tyrion to capture the battering ram and reform at the gate.
I feel a lot of this is down to the timing, 50 minutes was not enough time to do all this. In the end the last 15 minutes is very rushed. The director is trying to fit it all in and in the end things fall a part. Both in the script and whats on scene.
I think across 2 episodes it would work very very well. But as 1 its a bit of a mixed bag for me, a fantastic first half but a rather poor second half.
Am not trying to be negative btw. Its amazing what they achieved. I just think its very dull to sit saying 'excellent' 'excellent' 'excellent' when everyone has said it much better and saw what I saw which was some mouth dropping momements (the CGI explosion could have been in The Avengers for example - then still having it as a backdrop to Stannis, really nice - not necessary but really made it seem 'epic' and not a TV show).
I just think it should have been two parts (I always expected the battle to be over two episodes, just for the amount that goes on and well - budget!).
But as it is its impressive TV. Really amazing what they achieved. They made the right changes/decisions and this makes me very excited for series 3 as I thought the centre-battle there was easily possible on the budget but felt this battle would be very hard. But damn do they mostly manage it!
I'll see what next episode is like, but I do think this battle could have been staged across 2 episodes with much of the rest happening between scenes and generally allowing better pacing and a more established final act of the battle (as it was it was all over the place for me).
But with all that its a 8/10 for me. Which tbh, for what they had to film, is fucking amazing for a TV show!
I think though Cersei should never have been involved in those plans; just because obviously without the giant chain, Tyrion's grand strategy isn't so much his own. Which takes away from him slightly.
First half - Excellent, fucking amazing - it'll get a fuck tonn of awards (maybe not best director though) for this alone.
Second half - meh. Tyrion's 'side attack' was dreadful, and just the whole seige didn't work. I actually found Tyrions wee ambush hilariously bad; which was helped by the joke at the end tbh, but still made no sense.
Why do Stannis's men stand back? Why is he leading such a small band over? Surely he'd be looking to line up for the attack? Going together, instead they allow Tyrion to capture the battering ram and reform at the gate.
I feel a lot of this is down to the timing, 50 minutes was not enough time to do all this. In the end the last 15 minutes is very rushed. The director is trying to fit it all in and in the end things fall a part. Both in the script and whats on scene.
I think across 2 episodes it would work very very well. But as 1 its a bit of a mixed bag for me, a fantastic first half but a rather poor second half.
Am not trying to be negative btw. Its amazing what they achieved. I just think its very dull to sit saying 'excellent' 'excellent' 'excellent' when everyone has said it much better and saw what I saw which was some mouth dropping momements (the CGI explosion could have been in The Avengers for example - then still having it as a backdrop to Stannis, really nice - not necessary but really made it seem 'epic' and not a TV show).
I just think it should have been two parts (I always expected the battle to be over two episodes, just for the amount that goes on and well - budget!).
But as it is its impressive TV. Really amazing what they achieved. They made the right changes/decisions and this makes me very excited for series 3 as I thought the centre-battle there was easily possible on the budget but felt this battle would be very hard. But damn do they mostly manage it!
I'll see what next episode is like, but I do think this battle could have been staged across 2 episodes with much of the rest happening between scenes and generally allowing better pacing and a more established final act of the battle (as it was it was all over the place for me).
But with all that its a 8/10 for me. Which tbh, for what they had to film, is fucking amazing for a TV show!
Am worried what is going to happen with Shae now though, her character is so different. I just don't know what the Sansa/Tyrion/Shae story is going to be now :/ But its interesting to watch develop.
Cornballer
Member
Content roundup
Reviews:
- EW.com
- Onion A|V Club
- WiC.net
- memles
- Sepinwall
- IndieWire
- Westeros.org
- Poniewozik
- Rolling Stone
- OtakuASSEMBLE (youtube)
Other content:
- Promo for next week's finale (please spoiler tag any discussion, youtube vid)
- EW.com: How the producers pulled off 'Blackwater'
- Inside the Episode (HBO vid)
Reviews:
- EW.com
- Onion A|V Club
- WiC.net
- memles
- Sepinwall
- IndieWire
- Westeros.org
- Poniewozik
- Rolling Stone
- OtakuASSEMBLE (youtube)
Other content:
- Promo for next week's finale (please spoiler tag any discussion, youtube vid)
- EW.com: How the producers pulled off 'Blackwater'
- Inside the Episode (HBO vid)
Nah, well worth it to read the books, but they're long. If you don't have that much free time, find a detailed story summary for each book then go to ASoS.
Cornballer
Member
Yes, there's a lot of back story and nuance that isn't covered in the tv series due to time, budget, and other constraints. They're well worth your time if you're interested in the story.
[ASoS]
It's already being dubbed as "the Lannister song" on YouTube. That's all that's needed for non-book readers to understand what's happening once it starts playing during the Red Wedding.
Tower of the Hand does a good job breaking it down chapter by chapter.
http://towerofthehand.com/books/guide.html
Plus, with the changes and omissions/combining of characters in the show I could see someone being pretty confused about who people are in A Storm of Swords and what's happening.
Majmun
Member
This was another great episode. So many different things going on when you compare it to the book. And complaining about it is stupid, because the writer of the book wrote this episode himself!!
I love the small changes to be honest. And I didn't miss the chain at all.
Only one episode left. What will I do after the show ends
I love the small changes to be honest. And I didn't miss the chain at all.
Only one episode left. What will I do after the show ends
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