Rome's big battle scene went on less than 10 minutes while the Blackwater battle lasted almost the whole episode. And while that Rome scene had an impressive amount of men on the battlefield it was still mostly close-up shots and super wide shots due to budget.
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Game of Thrones - Season 2 - George RR Martin's Song of Ice and Fire - Sundays on HBO
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Considering how well this series is doing in both ratings and sales compared to The Pacific, HBO should throw some more bones GoT way.
Only read the first book but I'm sure there are more battles yet to come and it'd be cool if HBO, now that they know they have a huge hit, will pony up so that we get to keep seeing these battles take place on screen.
Season 2's budget was 15% higher than Season 1's. I would expect a similar bump for Season 3.
Rome's budget was helped by the BBC, by the way, and BoB/Pacific had big names and big expectations behind them so I don't think we can expect anything close.
Chuck Norris
Banned
How does that really make sense though?
Does it make more money for being a mini-series some how?
This isn't related to the Blackwater episode and it has been brought up before, but it's just something I thought of right now. I have to say that the tv show doesn't do a good job at giving any indication of the passage of time and I've got one worry that will make the series seem a bit silly during the third (and possibly fourth) season. [ASOS]
Given how certain characters have seemed to travel through half the kingdom in the span of one episode (Littlefinger especially), I'm sure it'll be a bit confusing/silly when Jamie's trip to King's Landing will probably take, like, 1,5 seasons.
PhoenixDark
Banned
As a limited miniseries with major outside backing from Spielberg and Hanks, BoB had a budget of $13m per episode. That can't be compared to any regular television show, be it HBO or Showtime. It's a legacy project basically, a prestige show that spends a ton of money while generating tons of interest, good press, and bags of money for years
Miniseries also benefit from being sold as standalone products, no waiting for multiple seasons. From what I understand it remains a top seller among DVD/Blu Ray sets
MY MAN
And how long did those shows run for?
No one's asking for $200M. But the show could certainly use a higher budget and this is very obvious at times. Not only do certain scenes look poor (eg, direwolf CG), but often they remove/modify parts from the book in order to accommodate their limited budget.
EleventhDoctor
Banned
The Cercei/Sansa scenes were top notch-nearly exactly how I pictured those chapters from the book.
Gamer @ Heart
Member
Lena Heady knocked it out of the park tonight. Her portrayal of the character has a noticeably harsher public attitude for everyone than the character in the books that fit perfectly in tonights episode. Granted, she had some amazing lines in the book, so it should be expected, but i am sure tv budget battles vs time had a big part in cutting back to her so often.
I don't think anyone is lobbying for 200 million a season but I do think GoT has earned quite a bit of leeway in demanding the budget for whatever major battles may come up next(again read only the first book) and just give the whole series an even more polished, higher budget feel..
HBO has said they would have never cancelled Rome if they had calculated DVD sales into their decision making.....I understand the BBC helped out for the financing(HBO put up 85 million). Given that GoT has both better ratings and more revenue both from overseas(2.5 million an episode) and from DVD sales(best of any HBO series) I don't feel it's unreasonable to think HBO could bump up to at least what they gave Rome adjusted for inflation. Which would be around 90 million a season.
If they give them another 15% bump for next season that would put them right around 80,000,000 a season - still less then Rome.
They do that mostly because they are only given 10 episodes per season. Some bad CG is not terrible, that is not detracting from the show, IMO. At times when a higher budget is needed then they can have a higher budget but not every episode requires that.
I'm not totally sure what your point is here. No one is asking for an unreasonable budget. And I don't think you'd disagree that having a larger budget would be helpful.
There were a few scenes that didn't quite have the impact I was expecting them to but whatever this episode was fucking amazing. This is the Game of Thrones I fell in love with, oh and CGI was holy shit level. That may be the most awesome explosion ever. I did notice some cool GRRM traits that this episode had and I loved it but the credit goes to the director, he pulled off an incredible battle. David and Dan are actually better television writers than GRRM in my opinion, the only problem is that they have gotten a little too free and loose with the books. This was so great I am even willing to try and forgive the Jon story arc. I said try.
But over the next two seasons we have:
[ASoS]
- Dany taking down 3 different cities
- Jon beyond the wall seeing giants and mammoths
- Jon defending the wall against giants and mammoths
- Stannis battling the wildlings
- Red Wedding including a massacre inside and outside
- Brienne fighting a mother fucking bear that's all black and brown and covered with hair
- Super lavish wedding of Joffrey/Margaery
- Hound/Beric fight with a flaming sword
- Hound/Arya crossing the Trident in the middle of a storm
- Mountain/Viper duel in a gladiator-style arena.
- EDIT: Forgot the Others and Sam being a fucking boss!
I want big budgets!!!1!
I'm obviously over-exaggerating some things.
- Jon beyond the wall seeing giants and mammoths
- Jon defending the wall against giants and mammoths
- Stannis battling the wildlings
- Red Wedding including a massacre inside and outside
- Brienne fighting a mother fucking bear that's all black and brown and covered with hair
- Super lavish wedding of Joffrey/Margaery
- Hound/Beric fight with a flaming sword
- Hound/Arya crossing the Trident in the middle of a storm
- Mountain/Viper duel in a gladiator-style arena.
- EDIT: Forgot the Others and Sam being a fucking boss!
I want big budgets!!!1!
I'm obviously over-exaggerating some things.
I really hope they don't drop the ball with some other battles. They've set the standard pretty high and I hope they continue to keep up the quality.
ASoS
ASoS
I'm hoping they use a bit of budget in the future for the Battle of Castle Black. I know it's not as big as Blackwater, but it's still a pretty awesome battle in the book. I want to see some giants and lots of arrows. Plus due to how they've handled Jon so far, this really seems like it's being set up to be an even more defining scene than it is in the books.
Forgot that one too. Add it to my completely serious list!
PhoenixDark
Banned
80m/season? Nah I don't see that happening. The show is certainly making tons of money, but I'm not sure HBO wants to dump even more money into the show while also producing Boardwalk Empire and True Blood on large scales.
The scale in the books gets larger and larger, and there are multiple battles/skirmishes plus CGI demands for other stuff. I think the show can be very good without an increased budget, but we won't be seeing similar scale to tonight imho
I think tonight's episode was a statement, as ep9 of last season was in a different way. It may not establish a standard for future episodes, but it's an effective viewer hook that will last before the next hook.
[ASOS]
You mentioned Jon defending the wall against giants and mammoths... isn't that the Castle Black battle?
Splitting a novel into two seasons is effectively increasing the budget, and rather significantly at that. It will have major effect.
The biggest obstacle facing them - and anyone - in adapting massive novels to screen is less per-episode budget than time, and that's both in terms of the length of the seasons and the shooting schedule they're under.
Chuck Norris
Banned
Mad spoils:But over the next two seasons we have:
[ASoS]
- Dany taking down 3 different cities
- Jon beyond the wall seeing giants and mammoths
- Jon defending the wall against giants and mammoths
- Stannis battling the wildlings
- Red Wedding including a massacre inside and outside
- Brienne fighting a mother fucking bear that's all black and brown and covered with hair
- Super lavish wedding of Joffrey/Margaery
- Hound/Beric fight with a flaming sword
- Hound/Arya crossing the Trident in the middle of a storm
- Mountain/Viper duel in a gladiator-style arena.
- EDIT: Forgot the Others and Sam being a fucking boss!
I want big budgets!!!1!
I'm obviously over-exaggerating some things.
ASOS
ASOS will be two seasons, so technically double the budget for the book already. The evens you described can be split in half
There will really be two major battles, one being Dany is the east (season three maybe) and the other being Jon (season four maybe), or they could flip them around
I hardly think we need to worry too much about the budget with most of what you mentioned. Especially the weddings or small scale fights
There will really be two major battles, one being Dany is the east (season three maybe) and the other being Jon (season four maybe), or they could flip them around
I hardly think we need to worry too much about the budget with most of what you mentioned. Especially the weddings or small scale fights
What they really need to invest in is some of that CGI tech that lets you produce huge scale armies like LOTR or basically all the battle movies in the past ten years used
No, they're two separate things.[ASOS]You mentioned Jon defending the wall against giants and mammoths... isn't that the Castle Black battle?
[ASOS]
Castle Black battle = Jon defending on the roof top with arrows and Ygritte dies.
ASOS
That is probably more expensive and complicated to pull off than Blackwater if they want it done right.
Season 2 has seen a big leap in success over the first, so I don't see why they wouldn't pump another $10M into the show. Still wouldn't put it as high as Rome's budget and DVD sales have become an even bigger coup for HBO.
I'd be surprised if it wasn't in the realm of $80M.
ASoS
They really only need to focus on the one giant that Noye dies defending the gate from. Otherwise maybe just a few in the background or something. I don't think massive amounts of arrows being fired are too expensive, are they?
True blood isn't that expensive and frankly as much as I love Boardwalk Empire they are the show that can afford a slightly smaller budget.
GoT is literally HBOs biggest money maker and they should treat it accordingly.
If what your are saying is true then NOT giving them a bigger budget going forward is actually going to make it harder to even maintain this current level of production value.
[ASOS]
I'm pretty sure he's referring to when Jon is on the top of the wall and the giants/mammoths are trying to get to the other side, not the other battle involving Ygritte. But either way the latter needs to be added, yeah.
Gamer @ Heart
Member
If this where a cable show with commercial slots to sell, i could see your point, but subscriber numbers tell HBO whether its worth it or not to significantly increase the budget. Ratings are higher than S1, yes, but are subscribers?
That was rhetorical, im genuinely curious.
[ASOS]
You're right but calling the battle where Jon defends the wall the "Battle of Castle Black" doesn't make any sense at all since it takes place at the top of the wall and in the tunnel under the wall but not in and around Castle Black itself. To tell you the truth, I got excited once I read Castle Black in his post and jumped the gun because I wants bigs budgets!!!!
Still exaggerating.
Still exaggerating.
http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/...showtime_make_money_despite_low_ratings_.html
The entire article is worth reading, by the way. Very informative.
But there is now available to HBO in terms of making a descision on next seasons budget data like DVD sales and total overseas revenue that wasn't known when green lighting season 2's budget.
And both overseas and DVD revenue are major concerns of HBO's just like subscriptions.
At this point the producers on this show have quite the argument if they feel a bigger budget may be required next season.
Though I would be interested in knowing what HBO's subscription numbers look like compared to last year and the year before that.
pulga
Banned
How great was Cersei? It's the portrayal I've been waiting for from Headey. Totally nailed what a selfish, manipulative bitch she is. Seeing her try to knock down Sansa down a peg or two was fascinating, tells you a lot about what's going on in her head and how she came to be what she is now. And Sansa! She's developing into a total baller. Series Spoiler:
My two main complaints this season have been Arya and Tyrion's treatment. Did not miss the chain AT ALL. I was worried Tyrion wasn't gonna get the recognition he deserved, but his leaky ship ploy was genius. Kinda blows your mind both tactics came from the mind of the same writer. Makes you wonder if GRRM bounced this idea around in his head way back when he was writing ACOK. I think I prefer the wildfire nuke though, the chain was very confusing and overly complicated.
I've been watching the show with 5 other book readers. ASOS spoiler
Fantastic foresight.
she's gonna be unstoppable once LF gets through with her
My two main complaints this season have been Arya and Tyrion's treatment. Did not miss the chain AT ALL. I was worried Tyrion wasn't gonna get the recognition he deserved, but his leaky ship ploy was genius. Kinda blows your mind both tactics came from the mind of the same writer. Makes you wonder if GRRM bounced this idea around in his head way back when he was writing ACOK. I think I prefer the wildfire nuke though, the chain was very confusing and overly complicated.
I've been watching the show with 5 other book readers. ASOS spoiler
When "Rains of Castamere" gets to "In a coat of gold or a coat of red, A lion still has claws" verse during the credits, they immediately recognized it as "that Lannister song" the troops were singing at the bar. The showrunners have excellently cemented the song's importance in preparation for RW. There will be lots of pants shitting when it's eventually brought into the show again.
Cydonian__Knight
Member
Holy shit that was an incredible episode. That rendition of the Rains of Castamere was absolutely chilling.
I also figure that the bigger GoT gets the more money HBO will sell the seasons for to over-seas markets. I also can't wait for the heavily edited version that will show up on A&E.
I also figure that the bigger GoT gets the more money HBO will sell the seasons for to over-seas markets. I also can't wait for the heavily edited version that will show up on A&E.
Yep, that's another revenue stream from this show.
According to the article I posted, HBO's amount of subscribers has remained at a steady 28 million (give or take 1 million) over the last several years. I'd guess it's gone up due to GoT's popularity, but not by much.
pulga
Banned
Goddamit got stuck as the last post.
Anyways..
How great was Cersei? It's the portrayal I've been waiting for from Headey. Totally nailed what a selfish, manipulative bitch she is. Seeing her try to knock down Sansa down a peg or two was fascinating, tells you a lot about what's going on in her head and how she came to be what she is now. And Sansa! She's developing into a total baller. Series Spoiler:
My two main complaints this season have been Arya and Tyrion's treatment. Did not miss the chain AT ALL. I was worried Tyrion wasn't gonna get the recognition he deserved, but his leaky ship ploy was genius. Kinda blows your mind both tactics came from the mind of the same writer. Makes you wonder if GRRM bounced this idea around in his head way back when he was writing ACOK. I think I prefer the wildfire nuke though, the chain was very confusing and overly complicated.
I've been watching the show with 5 other book readers. ASOS spoiler
Fantastic foresight.
Anyways..
How great was Cersei? It's the portrayal I've been waiting for from Headey. Totally nailed what a selfish, manipulative bitch she is. Seeing her try to knock down Sansa down a peg or two was fascinating, tells you a lot about what's going on in her head and how she came to be what she is now. And Sansa! She's developing into a total baller. Series Spoiler:
she's gonna be unstoppable once LF gets through with her
My two main complaints this season have been Arya and Tyrion's treatment. Did not miss the chain AT ALL. I was worried Tyrion wasn't gonna get the recognition he deserved, but his leaky ship ploy was genius. Kinda blows your mind both tactics came from the mind of the same writer. Makes you wonder if GRRM bounced this idea around in his head way back when he was writing ACOK. I think I prefer the wildfire nuke though, the chain was very confusing and overly complicated.
I've been watching the show with 5 other book readers. ASOS spoiler
When "Rains of Castamere" gets to "In a coat of gold or a coat of red, A lion still has claws" verse during the credits, they immediately recognized it as "that Lannister song" the troops were singing at the bar. The showrunners have excellently cemented the song's importance in preparation for RW. There will be lots of pants shitting when it's eventually brought into the show again.
What you guys need to ask yourselves is what the benefit to HBO is in increasing GoT's budget. The benefit to the showrunners is obvious, as more money is generally a good thing. But to HBO? They don't have much to gain from it, with the 15% increase to Season 2's budget obviously helpful but not something they particularly had to do.
Increasing the seasonal budget would mainly satiate a relatively small and insignificant audience of ASOIAF fans who will watch the show and buy the DVDs regardless. It would likely just put a dent in the show's profitability for - from HBO's point of view - no good reason. They may still increase it for Season 3, but given that they're already going with 2 seasons for ASoS (effectively lengthening that particular adaptation to 20 episodes), nobody should be particularly surprised if they don't.
Increasing the seasonal budget would mainly satiate a relatively small and insignificant audience of ASOIAF fans who will watch the show and buy the DVDs regardless. It would likely just put a dent in the show's profitability for - from HBO's point of view - no good reason. They may still increase it for Season 3, but given that they're already going with 2 seasons for ASoS (effectively lengthening that particular adaptation to 20 episodes), nobody should be particularly surprised if they don't.
Chuck Norris
Banned
Its in their benefit to keep the show at a consistently high quality, which is why its popular. The more demanding each season becomes, the more the budget is strained, and the lower the quality becomes unless the budget is increased to keep up with demands. Imagine this season the budget had restricted them from doing this episodes. The season would've been a total disappointment IMO
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