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Game of Thrones - Season 2 - George RR Martin's Song of Ice and Fire - Sundays on HBO
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That's crazy talk. The ring finger is the most useless finger, especially the right one. The only thing it's good for is to put a ring on it (even when married I won't use one because of work) or when bowling. At least the pinky can have it's uses.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
so, Jon's parents are
the mad king and Ned's sister, right?
No, and don't ask in this thread, ask in the one with unmarked spoilers, unless you are trying to avoid spoilers beyond season 2 for some reason while still wanting to know this info.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
it's just speculation, nothing more. And I didn't know there was a third thread. Seems a bit excessive, imo. :\
Not really spoilers but a question in spoilers gets an answer in them I guess.
I am. Although to be fair, the way I worded it means that AFFC and ADWD would compete for the best climax since ASOS and I think obviously ADWD wins.
It's a book thread mainly.
Its not excessive. Its needed for these books and tv shows.
There are actually 3 threads just for the books although the ADwD thread is pretty much dead according to when the last post was.
I can vouch for this
smokeandmirrors
Banned
If you treat AFFC and ADWD as one single entity (like they should've been), then it's the second best in the series IMO.
Blows my mind that someone who has been one of the biggest 'it's not like the book' complainers would actually recommend skipping the first book because of the TV show.
Really demonstrates that such a person believes they will get and should get almost a 1:1 clone if a book in tv form.
Really demonstrates that such a person believes they will get and should get almost a 1:1 clone if a book in tv form.
I think if you've never read the books you shouldn't skip the first book.
It's best to consider them two different entities. But it's not unreasonable to complain about differences in the book and show when the differences are unnecessary like Jon's second season arc and the complete butchering of Arya's Harrenhal arc.
I mean, you haven't heard anyone complain that Tyrion didn't get his nose chopped off. Not all differences are harped on, just the major ones. The reason the books are so good are because of these things they're leaving out. It's making me feel like they'll leave even more important things out in the future.
Forsaken82
Member
I would love to read both together. Is there a chronological list for AFFC-ADWD chapters?
I dunno about that. DWD does a great job reminding you of AFFC events, that it would become redundant to hear the same things twice.
Ah man someone should totally post it if there is one. Would make my next read through a bit more interesting!
SerArthurDayne
Member
So, I've been extremely busy with other things for the last few weeks, and I don't think I've watched an episode since maybe 6 or so. I think when Dany's dragon's were stolen was the last thing I saw.
What is the verdict on the rest of the season? My baseline was generally better television than season 1, worse changes from the novels. I try not to let changes bother me, though.
I'm hoping I can watch most/all of them on Sunday. I enjoy having less time to think about the changes I don't like anyways. Also a ton of Mad Men to catch up on.
What is the verdict on the rest of the season? My baseline was generally better television than season 1, worse changes from the novels. I try not to let changes bother me, though.
I'm hoping I can watch most/all of them on Sunday. I enjoy having less time to think about the changes I don't like anyways. Also a ton of Mad Men to catch up on.
Book spoilers do not open if you haven't read the last couple of books
http://www.sffchronicles.co.uk/foru...d-chronologically-by-chapter.html#post1516518
I looked around for you guys and this seems to be the best. I'm a bit interested in it myself. I was thinking of reading ASOS and then following this order after.
smokeandmirrors
Banned
At the risk of spoilers, I will say I believe ADWD meets up with the events of AFFC a little before halfway through the book.
Edit: Arment, great find.
However, thar be spoilers in that list, so I don't know if it's a good idea for first readers to look at, lest they be spoiled.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
It's an interesting idea for a re-read, but I should note that no one should ever try and do this their first time through. The books are written to be read in the order they were released, and reading through a combined version will spoil one of the best moments in Feast right away.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
I don't think I'd recommend it. While it's a pain to read the books the way they're published, a lot of things don't work right if you mix them together.
Which moment is that?
Heh, well, when you're going through your third read through sometimes something like this helps to spice it up. It's definitely not for a first time reader.
Thanks! It seems like I'll have to forget about my book backlog and start re-reading ASOS and AFFC-ADWD.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
(Series Spoilers)
Doran revealing himself to be plotting the return of the Targaryens in the last Arianne chapter (versus Quentyn on a mission to meet Dany less than 100 pages into Dance)
I really do need to read ADWD again. I should have made that connection lol. Thanks. I figured the read order list would correct things like that
No, people hate it because of the god awful pacing. The PoVs are just the icing on the cake. DwD had a similar problem with pacing but it does have a few more eventful events that saves it. GRRM needed to have edited the fuck out of both books.
It depends where he goes with it. If he goes the obvious route then yes you're right in that it doesn't live up to earlier events and the amazing climaxes that go along with those.
The Littlefinger and Tywin additions aren't all that controversial though, and even then, only to the extent that those changes soften the Arya storyline.
The changes to Jon's story completely and IMO irreparably harm his character. It's not a matter of changes from the book, it's a matter of the story they told being worse than the story in the book. If they had a reason for the changes that would be one thing, but having Jon and Ygritte wandering in the tundra for 2 episodes while Ygritte mocks him and makes sex jokes does absolutely nothing to develop either of those characters at the expense of ruining both Halfhand and Jon's story arcs. It was a fucking waste of time when Ygritte will be around all next season.
Amen.
A friend was telling me that he loved Theon scene from last episode, (series)
because they finally revealed how he was killed (he's reading AFFC and is pretty sure Theon is dead). I laughed so hard. Luckily this was fb chat, I would have spoiled him the best part of Dwd. REEK!
I'm hoping they keep him next season. Alfie Allen is the best.
I'm hoping they keep him next season. Alfie Allen is the best.
Oh they definitely fucked up Jon's storyline. I mean atleast Arya got the Tywin scenes out of it. They fucked up Jon's storyline on multiple levels. What they could do to salvage something out of this mess is build up the relationship between Jon and Ryder. Ryder teaching him how to lead instead of Halfhand might salvage something.
Early DWD, some AFFC
They did a poor job with theon in the show, they should have had boltons Bastard stick a shiv in him or something and cut to black. I just feel like people know he isn't dead. I expect him to come back next season, to be honest.
No they're going to wait for the big reveal. They did screw up the burning of Winterfell but I guess it's supposed to be a mystery.
Mike Works
Member
For those of you apprehensive about reading AFFC, the number one complaint that people had with the book was IT DOESN'T HAVE THE CHARACTERS I WANTED TO READ ABOUT IN IT.
That's because GRRM held them back for ADWD.
That book's out now. So if you're starving for (SERIES)
, all you have to do is finish the book and their chapters are right there waiting for you.
Wasn't like that for us.
That was a long winter.
That's because GRRM held them back for ADWD.
That book's out now. So if you're starving for (SERIES)
Jon and Tyrion and whoever
Wasn't like that for us.
That was a long winter.
If it weren't for the show the wait between ADWD and TWoW would be quite painful. At least this time around we have that.
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
Of course that will be the case.
They're not going to ask Allen to take three seasons off.
I maintain that the series will ultimately prove to be unadaptable in its entirety, but if there's any chance, the changes will have to get bigger and bigger. Y'all better get used to an "alternate telling" rather than anything remotely resembling, say, whatever The Winds Of Winter turns out to be.
Yeah, I definitely enjoyed AFFC more the second read. After ADWD I agree that it feels a lot like 'oh! here's the rest of that book!'
IMO if they are two different entities (which I agree with you on) then it's less logical to say one is 'butchered' if the point of comparison is the other. It's two different versions of the character. I completely understand liking one version over another, obviously. But I'd like to see how TV Version's story actually plays out rather than saying it's ruined because of Book Version. Also, the books are better because they almost always are. That's another reason I find the complaints tired because it's the same song and dance we see every time. The books are almost always better, and the Other Medium Version almost always leaves something cool or great out. Yet people still seem to forget that and get disappointed all over again each time it happens. Seems to me that actually considering them 'two different entities' is much better for a person's mental health.
Anyway, that's been discussed plenty in here. I was serious when I say I have a hard time figuring out how fans of the book - particularly when lamenting the loss of the more detailed storylines and characters (which I agree with obviously) - would actually be okay with telling a new reader to skip the first volume because of the TV show. A person would miss so much.
Pretty much. It's only going to get "worse" (if you are so inclined) from here.
IMO if they are two different entities (which I agree with you on) then it's less logical to say one is 'butchered' if the point of comparison is the other. It's two different versions of the character. I completely understand liking one version over another, obviously. But I'd like to see how TV Version's story actually plays out rather than saying it's ruined because of Book Version. Also, the books are better because they almost always are. That's another reason I find the complaints tired because it's the same song and dance we see every time. The books are almost always better, and the Other Medium Version almost always leaves something cool or great out. Yet people still seem to forget that and get disappointed all over again each time it happens. Seems to me that actually considering them 'two different entities' is much better for a person's mental health.
Anyway, that's been discussed plenty in here. I was serious when I say I have a hard time figuring out how fans of the book - particularly when lamenting the loss of the more detailed storylines and characters (which I agree with obviously) - would actually be okay with telling a new reader to skip the first volume because of the TV show. A person would miss so much.
Pretty much. It's only going to get "worse" (if you are so inclined) from here.
The Arya/Tywin scenes were not worth it to me.
I would even say that those scenes, in retrospect, were a terrible waste of time. That story line literally went nowhere. Nothing happened. Several scenes in several episodes were devoted to us just seeing that Tywin can be talked to as an equal by a little girl (weakening his character for me) and Arya got to be all comfortable in the terrible place that Harrenhall is supposed to be.
Neither of those characters really grew and Arya's motivations are a lot weaker in the show.
It wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for characters like Jon being treated so poorly. What little we got of "humanizing Tywin" is not at all worth the loss of Jon's and Arya's development.
I would even say that those scenes, in retrospect, were a terrible waste of time. That story line literally went nowhere. Nothing happened. Several scenes in several episodes were devoted to us just seeing that Tywin can be talked to as an equal by a little girl (weakening his character for me) and Arya got to be all comfortable in the terrible place that Harrenhall is supposed to be.
Neither of those characters really grew and Arya's motivations are a lot weaker in the show.
It wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for characters like Jon being treated so poorly. What little we got of "humanizing Tywin" is not at all worth the loss of Jon's and Arya's development.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
I liked Arya and Tyin. But yeah, they wasted her entire time at Harrenhal. It seems more like servicing the actors rather than servicing then characters. Charles Dance is great and his scenes with Arya were great, but they came at the expense of developing Aryas character.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
Yeah. The scenes with them were fine on their own, but we got pretty much none of Arya's development. It all feels a bit pointless. We don't get Arya's growth, we never really see the conditions of living in Harrenhal as a serving person (which was the most important elements of her storyline in Clash, I felt), and we lose everything with
Roose Bolton
PhoenixDark
Banned
I'll put this in spoiler tags just in case...
I remember an interview from Carice van Houten where she said she shot a scene where (ASOS spoiler)
I'm guessing that was cut from the finale and will ultimately be re-done for season 3?
I remember an interview from Carice van Houten where she said she shot a scene where (ASOS spoiler)
Davos is locked in a cell.
That doesn't happen till quite a bit later, I imagine that was just them being smart and shooting ahead while they had the actors on scene together, definitely wouldn't have fit in this season.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
This.
We know the show is an adaptation and isn't going to be a word-for-word translation of the book for TV. It's really annoying when someone always uses "IT'S NOT THE BOOK" as a rebuttal to everything. Sure, stuff could happen in future seasons, but for discussion sake we can only consider what is already shown.
If we were to always think about what could happen in the future, we may as well never have any discussion beyond "I like this episode". And that would be terribly boring.
If we were to always think about what could happen in the future, we may as well never have any discussion beyond "I like this episode". And that would be terribly boring.
A lot of the complaints this season isn't because they went out and did their own thing, its because what they did makes no sense and made it worse. What we could of had for Arya and Jon would have made for better television now and in the future and it money isn't even an issue. They didn't change things to save money they did it to enhance or enlarge roles for characters whose times just haven't come yet. Looking at you Talisa and Ygritte. And the biggest problem is that characters like Talisa and Ros were given their expanded roles just so season 2 could meet the sex quota HBO demands.
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