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[Ark]

Well, looks like this thread is going to be a LOST-esque thread full of complaints and how it doesn't follow the book letter for letter. Best I keep away then.

 

[NathanMcMahon]

A lot of the complaints this season isn't because they went out and did their own thing, its because what they did makes no sense and made it worse. What we could of had for Arya and Jon would have made for better television now and in the future and it money isn't even an issue. They didn't change things to save money they did it to enhance or enlarge roles for characters whose times just haven't come yet. Looking at you Talisa and Ygritte. And the biggest problem is that characters like Talisa and Ros were given their expanded roles just so season 2 could meet the sex quota HBO demands.

I'm sorry, but none of this bolded statement is remotely true. As a side note this is an example of someone not understanding TV production at all, when they make comments like this.

 

[agrajag]

Can someone explain the whole Dagmer thing to me? Why did they change that? Where could the story possibly go with that?

Spoiler

Is there gonna be no Bolton bastard in the series?

 

[Vyer]

I keep seeing that LOST thread reference but as someone who didn't watch that show and not being aware of any adaptation, what happened there?

We know the show is an adaptation and isn't going to be a word-for-word translation of the book for TV.

You may. While not word for word, it's been made apparent that some folks seem to expect the same characters that exist in another version of this story.

It's really annoying when someone always uses "IT'S NOT THE BOOK" as a rebuttal to everything.

That hasn't happened. There have been plenty of discussions on acting, pacing, budget, special effects, music, etc. etc. Otherwise it's only been in reference to complaints that basically *are* boiling down to 'it's not the book', usually under the guise of 'butchered characters' or 'good television', as though simply using the book version of the character or the dialogue that was printed in a certain chapter somehow means everything else that makes television then falls into place.

Sure, stuff could happen in future seasons, but for discussion sake we can only consider what is already shown.

If we were to always think about what could happen in the future, we may as well never have any discussion beyond "I like this episode". And that would be terribly boring.

For all the reasons mentioned time and time again, this is not the concern here and no one is saying that comparing or preferring versions isn't/can't happen; of course it is. However, 'omg they ruined this! In the book..' is just about the most cliched sentence in the history of book adaptations ever and *that* is terribly boring.

 

[Ark]

I keep seeing that LOST thread reference but as someone who didn't watch that show and not being aware of any adaptation, what happened there?

It just turned into a thread about people arguing and complaining and bitching about the show's inconsistent plot line and such. Basically what's going on here, but only worse.

 

[frequency]

There has been a lot of great discussion and a lot of love for the show throughout the season in this thread. It always seems to be a name I don't recognize pops into the thread and throws a "TOTALLY NOT THE BOOKS" at a time when the discussion is comparing what could have been and what is.

I feel this thread is positive about the show for the most part. But nope. It's apparently worse than the Lost thread because people say they prefer book Jon/Arya once in a while.

 

[Cornballer]

Alyssa Rosenberg @ Think Progress:

- ‘Game of Thrones’ Story Editor Bryan Cogman On the Second Season, Adapting Books He Loves, and the Show’s Secret Main Character

The morning after finale of the second season of Game of Thrones, I called up Bryan Cogman, the show’s story editor. We’d spoken earlier in the year about the third episode of the season, which Bryan wrote. This time, we talked about the full arc of the season, the emergence of important new characters who don’t appear in the novels, race and gender in the show, and the tension between staying true to George R.R. Martin’s sprawling series while adapting it for an entirely different medium.

 

[bodyofanamerican]

Can someone explain the whole Dagmer thing to me? Why did they change that? Where could the story possibly go with that?

Spoiler

Is there gonna be no Bolton bastard in the series?

Oh he's coming. Don't you worry. And I, for one, cannot wait.

 

[Cornballer]

- WiC.net: Curtain Call: Valar Morghulis

The season finale of Game of Thrones lived up to its title, “Valar Morghulis.” All men must die is a fitting theme for an episode that sees us saying goodbye to five supporting cast members, though in this case, it’s not all men.

WiC.net says goodbye to Jaqen H’ghar, Doreah, Xaro Xhoan Daxos, Qhorin Halfhand, and Pyat Pree.

 

[Gregorn]

- WiC.net: Curtain Call: Valar MorghulisWiC.net says goodbye to Jaqen H’ghar, Doreah, Xaro Xhoan Daxos, Qhorin Halfhand, and Pyat Pree.

How did they forgot Maester Luwin?

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

How did they forgot Maester Luwin?

They got him earlier in the week. Otherwise heads would roll.

 

["God's Beard!"]

If I started reading from the third book, would I understand the story only having seen the show?

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

If I started reading from the third book, would I understand the story only having seen the show?

No, it's really best to start from the beginning.

 

[frequency]

If I started reading from the third book, would I understand the story only having seen the show?

I don't think so. A lot of things/characters were changed significantly or left out in the show.

 

["God's Beard!"]

No, it's really best to start from the beginning.

Yeah, but I'd be really annoyed by going back through the same story.

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

Yeah, but I'd be really annoyed by going back through the same story.

Just think of the books as an adaption of the tv show.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Yeah, but I'd be really annoyed by going back through the same story.

The first season is pretty much the first book, but with a lot of great details missing plus other awesome stuff like the wolves actually mattering and characters who become important later like donal noye. The second season omits a lot of the second book, and most of the great parts at that. At the very least you will have to start with a clash of kings. And really the books are a lot better than the show anyway so why not get the full experience?

 

[anaron]

That’s a David [Benioff] and Dan [Weiss] special. She doesn’t even exist in the books. Ros was originally Red Headed Whore Number 1 in the pilot. In the very original [draft], Tyrion was in a brothel in King’s Landing as a way to introduce him and get a little download of information about Jon Arryn [the former Hand of the King who dies prior to the events fo the novel and the show]. For various budgetary reasons in the pilot, we chouldn’t shoot King’s Landing at all or have any King’s Landing sets, so what you ended up seeing where Tyrion has skipped out on the royal procession and tries to find Winterfell’s brothel…Ros the whore kind of emerged from that…

With season 2, there’s a character in the book named Alyaya, who we didn’t end up keeping. We knew that Ros would serve that function in the latter part of the season where Cersei thinks she’s caught Tyrion’s girlfriend but actually has caught Ros and doesn’t know who she is. We had that in place…it’s funny, it’s one of those things that kind of happened by accident. You’re finding different ways as you’re plotting the season to examine different traits and characters. There’s a throwaway line in the second book where Tyrion says “Oh, we should hire some whores for Joffrey, maybe that would let him calm down a bit.” And we thought, we have to see that scene. And what ended up emerging was that horrific, as horrific as anything in the show, scene where Ros and Daisy are made to abuse each other for Joffrey’s sick jollies. And then, the other thing that we sort of built into the show was the rivalry between Littlefinger and Varys…Ros seemed to be the perfect person for Varys to have an insider in Littlefinger’s company…she came to Littlefinger’s, trusted him, thought she had a rapport, and sort of had a rude awakening about who she is, and who she is in Littlefinger’s eyes.

 

[theignoramus]

If I started reading from the third book, would I understand the story only having seen the show?

absolutely not. not only would you be lost, all kinds of references to events in previous books would fly over your head. dont treat yourself to inferior experience.

 

[bengraven]

The story flows differently in the books as well and there are so many little extra bits added, you could almost think of it as watching a much better adaptation of a great movie years down the road and the director's extended cut at that.

Or just start reading the book. If you're feeling it, then keep going. If not, stick with the show. Don't skip books, there are soooo many plots and characters missing that you'd be lost.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Actually I think I may read them again. I was planning on rereading ADWD to see if i liked it better the second time through like AFFC, maybe I'll just do the whole series.

 

[Angry Grimace]

If I started reading from the third book, would I understand the story only having seen the show?

You can safely skip a Game of Thrones, but you can't safely skip a Clash of Kings to the point at which certain parts of the story will literally be incomprehensible to you if you skip it.

 

["God's Beard!"]

The first season is pretty much the first book, but with a lot of great details missing plus other awesome stuff like the wolves actually mattering and characters who become important later like donal noye. The second season omits a lot of the second book, and most of the great parts at that. At the very least you will have to start with a clash of kings. And really the books are a lot better than the show anyway so why not get the full experience?

Not having read the books, every change I've heard of I'm glad for. Like Syrio having Mr.Satan hair.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Not having read the books, every change I've heard of I'm glad for. Like Syrio having Mr.Satan hair.

He may have better (or any) hair in the show, but the fight between Syrio and the Lannister guards is 1000 times better in the book.

 

["God's Beard!"]

He may have better (or any) hair in the show, but the fight between Syrio and the Lannister guards is 1000 times better in the book.

I doubt that very much. The production is a huge part of the appeal of Game of Thrones to me. Being able to see the different locations, hear the different accents, etc is really central to my enjoyment.

I really only want to get the story because I hate waiting and I have a week to kill, so I'd just like a straight answer rather than that old "book was better" crap. It seems like the consensus is to start from book 2.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

I doubt that very much. The production is a huge part of the appeal of Game of Thrones to me. Being able to see the different locations, hear the different accents, etc is really central to my enjoyment.

I really only want to get the story because I hate waiting, so I'd just like a straight answer rather than that old "book was better" crap. It seems like the consensus is to start from book 2.

Only one guy said that, but if you don't want to listen, whatever, your loss.

 

[SSM25]

If I started reading from the third book, would I understand the story only having seen the show?

Start from the second book, you will be OK

 

["God's Beard!"]

Only one guy said that, but if you don't want to listen, whatever, your loss.

Didn't you also say that?

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Didn't you also say that?

I said at the very least you'd have to start from the second book, I never said it was a good idea. And I still think its a mistake. And you're missing out on a lot if you want to continue the story through the books. You're missing out on Ned's POV which has important stuff not covered at all in the show.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Didn't you also say that?

If the only thing you're looking for are major plot points, there's no reason to read A Game of Thrones. The major plot points aren't different other than basically Ros's existence and super minor GOT spoiler

Spoiler

Renly not being explicitly gay with Loras Tyrell.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Well, I'm moving on monday so I think I'll buy the third girl with the dragon tattoo book this weekend then use next week to read the soiaf books. It looks like it's cheaper to get 1-4 as a bundle and 5 then 2-5 separately. Who knows, maybe I'll read the first book at some point.

 

[cubicle47b]

Don't skip the first book. I know you want to see what happens but you miss so much by doing that, even if the first season was fairly accurate.

http://booksaremyhome.tumblr.com/post/10643223607/my-favourite-game-of-thrones-scene

 

[Cornballer]

Fashionista talks with the costume designer and hair stylist for GoT:

- Game of Thrones‘ Hair and Wardrobe Secrets Revealed *one NSFW pic in the series*

Heh:

- College Humor: Game of Thrones House Sigils for Other TV Families

 

[ValleyJoe]

Well, I'm moving on monday so I think I'll buy the third girl with the dragon tattoo book this weekend then use next week to read the soiaf books. It looks like it's cheaper to get 1-4 as a bundle and 5 then 2-5 separately. Who knows, maybe I'll read the first book at some point.

My favorite parts of the books have always been the history and world building of Westeros. The stories about the legendary knights and battles from the past that aren't even mentioned in the tv show. I really think it's worth reading the entire series just for the incredible detail that grrm puts into the history and legends of the world. It's great stuff that makes the world feel a lot richer and more epic than it is presented in the tv series.

 

[jayb]

College Humor: Game of Thrones House Sigils for Other TV Families

http://i.imgur.com/1wihE.jpg

lol

 

[Arment]

Start from the second book, you will be OK

You can safely skip a Game of Thrones, but you can't safely skip a Clash of Kings to the point at which certain parts of the story will literally be incomprehensible to you if you skip it.

No, you really can't safely skip anything. The sheer amount of backstory not covered in S1 will be covered in Book 1. Skipping any book really is bad advice. The show and the book are more different than you think.

I doubt that very much. The production is a huge part of the appeal of Game of Thrones to me. Being able to see the different locations, hear the different accents, etc is really central to my enjoyment.

I really only want to get the story because I hate waiting and I have a week to kill, so I'd just like a straight answer rather than that old "book was better" crap. It seems like the consensus is to start from book 2.

Start from book 1. You will thank all of us who said to do so later.

If you start at book 2 you'll be missing out on a lot of inner monologue historical references that will be referred to later. Not to mention all the character building and things that weren't in the show of which there are countless tidbits.

Don't skip the first book. I know you want to see what happens but you miss so much by doing that, even if the first season was fairly accurate.

http://booksaremyhome.tumblr.com/post/10643223607/my-favourite-game-of-thrones-scene

Great example. Don't skip the first book. There are a lot of these types of things you'll miss. Things that would have made the show A+ grade.

 

[Frost_Ace]

I lolled hard at the house crawley one.

 

[Steelyuhas]

Don't skip the first book. I know you want to see what happens but you miss so much by doing that, even if the first season was fairly accurate.

http://booksaremyhome.tumblr.com/post/10643223607/my-favourite-game-of-thrones-scene

That scene is incredible.

I hope it shows up in the show at some point.

 

[Fuzzy]

I lolled hard at the house crawley one.

"What is a weekend?" got me too. So did House House's "It's never Lupus."

 

[Attackthebase]

Actually I think I may read them again. I was planning on rereading ADWD to see if i liked it better the second time through like AFFC, maybe I'll just do the whole series.

This thread has motivated me to start reading through the series again. I finished the prologue, and I really need to grab some reading glasses. Headache right after that chapter.

I doubt that very much. The production is a huge part of the appeal of Game of Thrones to me. Being able to see the different locations, hear the different accents, etc is really central to my enjoyment.

I really only want to get the story because I hate waiting and I have a week to kill, so I'd just like a straight answer rather than that old "book was better" crap. It seems like the consensus is to start from book 2.

You will miss a lot of fantastic stuff from the first novel if you skip it. All that back-story and lore gone forever!

 

[Arment]

Unless you just hate reading or something, I can't imagine skipping a book. You have 5 books to read and they aren't going anywhere. Get the full experience.

 

[The Lamonster]

Skipping a book because you've watched the TV season is like refusing to eat a delicious cheeseburger at a nice restaurant because you already know what it's like to eat a McDonald's cheeseburger.

 

[Chuckie]

Skipping a book because you've watched the TV season is like refusing to eat a delicious cheeseburger at a nice restaurant because you already know what it's like to eat a McDonald's cheeseburger.

I like this metaphor. Pretty accurate.

 

[scosher]

Can someone explain the whole Dagmer thing to me? Why did they change that? Where could the story possibly go with that?

Spoiler

Is there gonna be no Bolton bastard in the series?

There was an article on the 10 best changes the show made to ACOK in the adaptation posted earlier, which I thought did a great job explaining why including Reek this season would've been way too convoluted. His backstory and why he's actually at Winterfell is mostly written secondhand in the book.

Found the article: http://io9.com/5915744/10-best-changes-game-of-thrones-made-to-a-clash-of-kings

Spoiler

The business with Ramsay Snow, Roose Bolton's bastard, and his obnoxious servant Reek, is really complicated and would have been a nightmare to do justice to on screen. In the book, Ramsay hardly appears, but he's talked about a lot — he kidnaps Lady Donella Hornwood, forces her to marry him, and then imprisons her. And when Ser Rodrik Cassel shows up to deal with him, he changes clothes with his servant Reek, so as to escape. Later, still pretending to be the servant Reek, Ramsay Snow joins up with Theon, and it's "Reek" who comes up with the plan to kill the miller's sons and pass them off as Bran and Rickon. Eventually, Theon sends "Reek" to get help, and Ramsay returns with a small army. He pretends to join forces with Ser Rodrik, then betrays him. And later, once he's rejoined Theon, he betrays Theon as well. It's a very complicated story that's mostly told second hand, and the notion of having a character we've never met in disguise as another character we've never met could have been impossible to portray on screen. Given that Ramsay is mentioned often but not seen in season two, there's no doubt we'll meet him in season three.

 

[Famassu]

Only watched the last episode today. It's clear Blackwater was the finale and this is just setting up the next season. Anyways, what I think about the last episode, final moments of different characters & whole story arcs of them in S2.


Dany: Awesome episode for her. Shows she's not quite as bad an actor as she's seemed during this season [ASOS]

Spoiler

Though I'm not sure what they are doing with the whole Thirteen being killed already, especially Xaro's fate. That was... unexpected. Though, bad-ass Dany = bestest Dany.

The House of the Undying wasn't quite as intriquing as in the books, but I can live with the "resist the temptations" version we got in the show.

Arya: A decent ending and we got to see Jhaqen's facial transformation thingie & her getting the coin. I don't really care that Arya didn't suffer horribly & wasn't super-miserable in Harrenhaal [ASOS]

Spoiler

plenty of time for that in the next couple of season's...).

Her scenes with Tywin were great and [ASOS]

Spoiler

it could make Tywin's death in ASOS even better, given how he was such a non-presence in the books for most of the time. Now we actually got to see a humane side of him, so Tyrion killing him will be even more shocking.

Jon: I think Jon's storyline BEGAN really well, but the way this finale played out was bad, simply put. Jon wasn't supposed to kill Qhorin in anger, it was supposed to be a clever ploy and something that is really hard for him. Now it seems like he killed Qhorin in blind rage, which is so, so wrong.

Jaime & Brienne: Decent ending for S2 for them.

Robb: Mmmm... I don't think there was anything wrong in the season ending with his & her wedding, BUT I feel like Robb lacked any kind of "KING OF THE NORTH!!!!!" epic scene this season. We got to see a couple of ravaged battle fields/beginnings of battles, but mostly they just were in some random different places in every episode throughout the season without any kind of coherency, just rambling on about whatever was the topic of the week (Theon's betrayal, Renly, what he's going to do after they are through with war).

Theon: I already liked the character in the books, but there have been some great scenes in S2 that make him even better. Especially his talk with Maester Luwin and battle speech in this episode. Definitely the biggest positive surprise of the season, Theon's whole story arc, that is. Also, I've got to say I don't understand the complaint that they screwed up Luwin's death scene. It was plenty dramatic IMHO.

Hodor, Hodor, Hodor & Hodor: A sad but good way to end S2 for them and put them on their journey.

King's Landing: Sansa's tears of joy were so good, though Littlefinger's talk was a bit creepy. Tyrion didn't get any recognition, which was handled quite well. Shae hasn't been annoying at all in these past 2-3 episodes. Tyrells seem a bit more powerhungry shitheads than in the books, [ASOS]

Spoiler

I really like them in the books, especially since they kill Joffrey, but for some reason I'm not quite feeling the love in the show

Finale Ending: It was great, although the way they just let Sam live seems a bit strange or wasn't really portrayed well.

 

[bengraven]

lol

I bust out laughing.

 

[frequency]

Jon: I think Jon's storyline BEGAN really well, but the way this finale played out was bad, simply put. Jon wasn't supposed to kill Qhorin in anger, it was supposed to be a clever ploy and something that is really hard for him. Now it seems like he killed Qhorin in blind rage, which is so, so wrong.

Maybe it's because I read the books, but I didn't get that at all. It was very compressed, but I still got the sense that Jon did what had to be done (as Qhorin told him in a previous episode) to get in with the Wildlings.

What did the other non-book thread think about it? Or impressions in general on the internet? Is it popular opinion that he killed Qhorin out of anger?

 

[Drazgul]

Maybe it's because I read the books, but I didn't get that at all. It was very compressed, but I still got the sense that Jon did what had to be done (as Qhorin told him in a previous episode) to get in with the Wildlings.

What did the other non-book thread think about it? Or impressions in general on the internet? Is it popular opinion that he killed Qhorin out of anger?

Same here. Could've been done much better, however.

 

[Snake]

What did the other non-book thread think about it? Or impressions in general on the internet? Is it popular opinion that he killed Qhorin out of anger?

No.

That interpretation has come almost entirely from book readers who think that the Showfolks won't get it, when the majority understood it just fine.

 

[Wray]

Watched the finale last night.

Wow at that final scene. I was not expecting them to show us the White Walkers in all their glory so soon on the show.

Also...

Spoiler

I have NO idea wtf they are going to with Theon for two seasons now, or how the Ramsay stuff is going to play out next season.

My only disappointment was not seeing Arstan Whitebeard popup at the end somewhere. Going to have wait till S3 for his return. I really really hope they dont have to recast his actor.