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Game of Thrones - Season 2 - George RR Martin's Song of Ice and Fire - Sundays on HBO

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H

HP_Wuvcraft

Banned
Dany's was by far the worst this season. It started out good, but then devolved into "we need to stall" for 80 years.

Halfhand was okay, but I would have liked the death to have been delayed to S3. We need jst another episode or two with him.

This season wasn't bad, but it did have a lot more filler than it should have.
 
K

Keen

Aliens ate my babysitter
John Dunbar said:
ASOS
Was it Rhaegar and Lyanna? I thought it was Rhaegar and Elia. Rhaegar died before his and Lyanna's kid was born(assuming of course that the seemingly obvious R+L=J stuff is actually true), and in the vision he names the child Aegon. There's also at least a few mentions that Rhaegar thought Aegon was the Prince that was promised. Of course he also thought he himself was the prince at one point, so clearly he's not that good at prophecies. Of course it's a vision, so I suppose it doesn't have to be completely accurate, and I guess Jon/Aegon could have sort of blended together.
Click to expand...

You're right, my mistake!
 
F

Fuzzy

I would bang a hot farmer!
Meier said:
But that's the thing.. it doesn't matter which way he's heading. That context isn't important to the on-screen action and it would do nothing to make the show better.
Click to expand...
You don't think viewers understanding what's happening makes it a better show? Like I said in the past, the opening sequence should have been used to show where Robb was going. Yes that would have cost some money to actually make the opening sequence relevant in each episode but it would have been worth it. As it was it was worthless.

The following had nothing to do with my post but I'll touch on it any way.

Meier said:
People claim certain things wouldn't affect the budget at all. Well that's not true. Every change affects budget. Script rewrites aren't cheap -- this is not book writing where oh well, let GRRM take as long as he wants... it'll come out when it comes out... no. It has to be done and ready and it has to be filmed and you have to move on. There is no room to budge.
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moop2000 said:
Totally and entirely agree. If you are not familiar with production on any scale much less TV, then these points of contention often seem easily remedied but in fact aren't. That's not being rude or demeaning, it's just pointing out the way things actually work. The show definitely has its ups and downs as any show does, but the overall quality and value is there.
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I completely understand it but the argument about it not costing anything more is that it would have been there from the beginning. They made a choice from the start to make it a weaker story for Jon (all I really hated was he didn't willfully let Ygritte go) instead of doing it the other way. In the book [ACoK]
he showed her compassion by letting her go and she paid him back by vouching for him with Rattleshirt.
In the show she pays him back for what? Letting her rub her ass against him? It was weaker and it wouldn't have cost anything to make it stronger if they made that decision from the start.
 
pr0cs

pr0cs

Member
Count of Monte Sawed-Off said:
Well Jon's was terrible, and Danys sucked because of how they stretched it out, so Robb kind of wins by default here.
Click to expand...

Well Danys was okay, I thought the idea of having the dragons stolen worked, would I liked to have a better HOTU yeah but I can understand the changes there.

They botched Jon due to ham-fisting Quorhin's introduction and character building, I can't defend this change since to me it would have been relatively easy to build his relationship with Jon, I suspect timing was the issue.

My biggest beef is Arya's storying, I liked the new content with Tywin but so much of her arc seems broken now. By the time she leaves Harrenhal she should have been a lot harder, having to deal with beatings, serving terribly cruel people and realizing that her former life is long gone. In the show she left Harrenhal without so much of showing her transformation (no kills) and she doesn't even have Needle, though I suspect in season 3 ASOS
that will be remedied with the Hound at the Inn with some other nameless guards to slaughter

I still love the show even though some plotlines seem botched. I really don't see how they botched Robbs story, it's certainly a lot more interesting than from what I remember in the books.
 
S

Socreges

Banned
pr0cs said:
what?
Really? out of Robb, Jon, Dany I really think his was the best considering how shallow his arc was in book 2.
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His was the best... out of three random, disappointing arcs of your choosing? Alright.
KuGsj.gif


I think Jon's stuff was better than Robb's, for sure. Craster was good, Ygritte was good, the Halfhand stuff was not bad. Jon himself was a bit frustrating, but it wasn't as much of a waste as Robb's scenes. Thank God for Oona.
 
S

Socreges

Banned
pr0cs said:
I still love the show even though some plotlines seem botched. I really don't see how they botched Robbs story, it's certainly a lot more interesting than from what I remember in the books.
Click to expand...
Like someone else pointed out, we barely even heard of Robb in ACoK. They included him for season 2 since they didn't want the actor sidelined for an entire year and it gave them an opportunity to throw in another love story. But for this reason (and I suppose to save budget), they didn't build on his military victories at all. We barely saw him interacting with his subjects at all, in fact. It was just him and Jeyne, and it really wasn't all that interesting (at least, not to me).
 
F

Fuzzy

I would bang a hot farmer!
Vice said:
Does HBO have a problem with, Arya series spoiler,
a little kid killing people?
Click to expand...
[AGoT/ACoK]
They showed her accidentally kill the fat boy in the first season so if they do have a problem (which I don't think they do) then it would be her killing someone on purpose.
 
G

Gvaz

Banned
Count of Monte Sawed-Off said:
I think it's too early to say that. My faith is shaken, but at least going forward it has to be incredibly hard to fuck up ASOS. Of course of they somehow manage that feat then calling them hacks would be way too nice.

Edit: then again they really did butcher the hell out of Jon
Click to expand...

It's going to be easy to fuck up ASOS if they don't increase their budget.
 
L

Levi

Banned
That scene with the stable boy in season one is edited so badly, I think it was originally obvious Arya acted preemptively when she killed him, and they went in after the fact to make it unclear.

According to GRRM's commentary on the BD, they cut the stable-boy begging "Take it out!", which Arya does, and only then does the boy die, all of which was in his script.

Odds are ASOS AFFC
Hound does all the killing in her scenes next season. They've already cut her killing Tickler by killing him early. If they make it to Feast, she can train to be a pacifist Faceless Man, offering the gift of death only by inaction.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
VsRobot said:
That scene with the stable boy in season one is edited so badly, I think it was originally obvious Arya acted preemptively when she killed him, and they went in after the fact to make it unclear.

According to GRRM's commentary on the BD, they cut the stable-boy begging "Take it out!", which Arya does, and only then does the boy die, all of which was in his script.

Odds are ASOS AFFC
Hound does all the killing in her scenes next season. They've already cut her killing Tickler by killing him early. If they make it to Feast, she can train to be a pacifist Faceless Man, offering the gift of death only by inaction.
Click to expand...

ASOS speculation
I'm assuming Polliver will take the place of The Tickler; he still has Needle after all, and she'll have to get it back. Of course, it's hard to see Polliver being a noteworthy replacement. The actor they got for The Tickler was perfect whereas Polliver seems like a general goon.

Regardless, Arya's stay at Harrenhel was trivialized so much it's unlikely that anything from that arc will make much of an impact later.
 
F

Forsaken82

Member
Vice said:
Does HBO have a problem with, Arya series spoiler,
a little kid killing people?
Click to expand...

This was my initial thought, but looking back at everything,(not so much a spoiler, but keeping in context with the above)
they didn't really shy away from killing infants which is far worse than .

But it could also be that HBO feels viewers are to emotionally attached to Arya, to see her kill in cold blood might be to much for the average viewer to stomach maybe?
 
2

28 Posts Later

Member
Fuzzy said:
[AGoT/ACoK]
They showed her accidentally kill the fat boy in the first season so if they do have a problem (which I don't think they do) then it would be her killing someone on purpose.
Click to expand...

There's a possibility they believe doing so would make her character more difficult to relate to. Arya is a bit of a psychopath, even given her age. Of course it could just be the fact reading about a young child killing people with a sword is one thing, actually visually displaying it reveals how ridiculous the situation is. Given they cut most of Harrenhal the change [if they go ahead with her arc] is going to take time. It'll probably be the focus of her character development over the next couple of seasons now they have more time to focus on that aspect.
 
F

Forsaken82

Member
VsRobot said:
I don't think spoilers from the first two books need to be tagged.
Click to expand...

I think they do if they relate to situations that happen differently/not at all in the show...

(cok)
like roose bolton taking over harrenhal
That occurs in book 2, but hasn't occured in the show yet.
 
C

Count of Monte Sawed-Off

un33dab@dpu$$y
VsRobot said:
That scene with the stable boy in season one is edited so badly, I think it was originally obvious Arya acted preemptively when she killed him, and they went in after the fact to make it unclear.

According to GRRM's commentary on the BD, they cut the stable-boy begging "Take it out!", which Arya does, and only then does the boy die, all of which was in his script.

Odds are ASOS AFFC
Hound does all the killing in her scenes next season. They've already cut her killing Tickler by killing him early. If they make it to Feast, she can train to be a pacifist Faceless Man, offering the gift of death only by inaction.
Click to expand...

God that stableboy killing scene was terrible.
 
R

Raist

Banned
Iksenpets said:
Comments on changes this season. I'm just marking the whole thing as spoilers through ASOS:
I agree that Robb and Jon's stories (especially the Jon and Qhorin relationship) took some damage this season, though I would hardly go so far "butchered". I think their goal with Jon is to sow doubt in viewers about his loyalty to the Watch, since we're no longer privvy to his internal monologues in which he questions himself. It does change his character to be less strong and more conflicted, since his conflict now has to be outwardly portrayed, but I at least understand the logic behind it. Still, less Ygritte and more Qhorin would've been better when they have a while season to develop Ygritte.

The Robb/Catelyn changes are harder to justify. There was no reason not to just cut the scene where Theon kills the ravens and have Robb learn of his brothers deaths normally. Catelyn's actions, while still understandable, are much less defensible now, and Robb I think we just have to accept as being rewritten as a romantic.

The complaints I don't understand are the Arya ones. Her scenes with Tywin are great and added to her character and the events that lead to her increasing violence (weasel soup/aiding Roose in capturing Harrenhal) haven't happened yet. That hotline is being stretched out, and there's no reason why she couldn't still take up a more violent role in her story with the Brotherhood, who I'm guessing are being rewritten to aid in the fall of Harrenhal with Arya's help. Some of you seem to want her to just be completely consumed by rage already, when that really shouldn't happen until after the RE when she's reunited with Needle (which some people seem to be forgetting doesn't happen until the end of book 3). The Tickle scene will be missed, but I'm sure something will be written in its place.
Click to expand...

The problem is that these major changes in the characters' very own personalities or what happens to them can hardly be justified as difficulties of adapting a huge book into a TV show. These are all very drastic changes. Sticking to the original thing wouldn't have been harder to do, or harder for the viewer to understand.
In Jon's case, they made it worse. I know a few non-book readers who thought that him Killing Qhorin didn't make any sense whatsoever
.
It's a bit like Faramir in LOTR. So yeah, I can see why people would not like these changes one bit.
 
Trojita

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
You have to be a terrible fucking writer to adapt A Song of Ice and Fire badly. There is no fucking excuses, all of the writing is in the book.
 
2

28 Posts Later

Member
Trojita said:
You have to be a terrible fucking writer to adapt A Song of Ice and Fire badly. There is no fucking excuses, all of the writing is in the book.
Click to expand...

[I'm not certain if the above is sarcastic, ignore this post if that's the case]

I'm not happy with some of the liberties the show has taken but to be fair to them it's a difficult series to adapt. It was written, purposely if Martin is to be believed, as to be so vast in scope it couldn't be filmed. The writers have to juggle character motivation for all the major set-pieces, character development [across a large cast] and for-shadow certain events all whilst hamstrung to various rules they have to follow.

It was clear [and I believe stated] this season that Aidan Gillen [Littlefinger] was given a greater amount of screentime than he would have had this been a pure adaptation to ensure he remained on the show; I would assume the same goes for Charles Dance [Tywin] - they needed to ensure viewers didn't go a year without knowing who these people were or their motivations; they managed to pull that off in a way that didn't harm the quality of the over arching plot. And that's not worrying about ensuring you fit everything into ten hours [think of all the scenes filmed we didn't see], episode pacing, budget concerns, ensuring everything is filmed and edited within a year and so on. A lot of the character motivation and development is told through internal monologue in the novels. That's difficult to adapt to an entirely visual medium. More so when you have to work around that disadvantage on top of everything else.
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Where the petition to sign to get Conan Stevens back for Seasons 3/4? Because I'd be on that instantly.
 
Enosh

Enosh

Member
well, got ACoK today, didn't read any of the books before and heard this is a good place to start since the first book is quite similar to the TV series

first impression: damn, do I have to have a weapons license to have this in my house? the thing is massive
had to get a translated version since there is no english one in the library and don't have a pad to read an e-book and reading it on the pc is a pain I don't want to go through, hope the translation isn't that bad
 
The Lamonster

The Lamonster

Member
Angry Grimace said:
Where the petition to sign to get Conan Stevens back for Seasons 3/4? Because I'd be on that instantly.
Click to expand...

Yep. New Gregor sucks.

Enosh said:
well, got ACoK today, didn't read any of the books before and heard this is a good place to start since the first book is quite similar to the TV series

first impression: damn, do I have to have a weapons license to have this in my house? the thing is massive
had to get a translated version since there is no english one in the library and don't have a pad to read an e-book and reading it on the pc is a pain I don't want to go through, hope the translation isn't that bad
Click to expand...
You failed son. Read the first book!
 
F

frequency

Member
Enosh said:
well, got ACoK today, didn't read any of the books before and heard this is a good place to start since the first book is quite similar to the TV series

first impression: damn, do I have to have a weapons license to have this in my house? the thing is massive
had to get a translated version since there is no english one in the library and don't have a pad to read an e-book and reading it on the pc is a pain I don't want to go through, hope the translation isn't that bad
Click to expand...

I'm not sure where you heard that this was a good idea, but I do not recommend this at all.
 
F

Fuzzy

I would bang a hot farmer!
frequency said:
I'm not sure where you heard that this was a good idea, but I do not recommend this at all.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't mind telling people to do this if they watched all the History of Westeros stuff on the Blu-ray. Even then, I'm glad I read AGoT.
 
J

Joe Shlabotnik

Banned
Why are there so many people asking which book to start with? Just start from the damn beginning. You could read like ten pages a day and still be finished through A Storm Of Swords by the time Season 3 rolls around.
 
F

Forsaken82

Member
Joe Shlabotnik said:
Why are there so many people asking which book to start with? Just start from the damn beginning. You could read like ten pages a day and still be finished through A Storm Of Swords by the time Season 3 rolls around.
Click to expand...

You could read all 5 books by the time season 3 rolls around... it took me just under 10 months to read the first 4 books (havent started on dance yet) and 4 months of that was spent on feast because it was so damn boring! I am a slow reader but book 4 the first 600 pages just brought me to a dead stop.
 
F

Fuzzy

I would bang a hot farmer!
Forsaken82 said:
You could read all 5 books by the time season 3 rolls around... it took me just under 10 months to read the first 4 books (havent started on dance yet) and 4 months of that was spent on feast because it was so damn boring! I am a slow reader but book 4 the first 600 pages just brought me to a dead stop.
Click to expand...
It's comments like that that has stopped me from even starting AFFC. :(
 
L

Levi

Banned
VsRobot said:
This should be in the OP and on every page:

Yes, of course you should read the books.

No, of course you shouldn't skip the books that have already been televised. The show is not in any way representative of the books, and you'd be missing out on a ton of information and characterization.

No you shouldn't just read plot summaries on some website and think that's adequate. See above.

...

Get crackin' on them books!
Click to expand...

I'm sure an ever-increasing legion of assholes are going to be deliberately spoiling the biggest revelations of SOS in the lead-up to season 3, so I would humbly suggest reading the book series in the interim.
 
F

Forsaken82

Member
Fuzzy said:
It's comments like that that has stopped me from even starting AFFC. :(
Click to expand...

Not trying to sway anyone away from reading it.

And as others have commented, it isn't the writing. A lot of the dialogue is fantastic. The pacing coming out of book 3 just seems to hit a brick wall though and the new POVs introduced just aren't all that great with a few exceptions (but the final 3 or 400 pages are really some of the best of the series) I really just found many of the new POVs very uninteresting and that is what slowed my reading.
 
K

KuwabaraTheMan

Banned
devilhawk said:
To put it bluntly, the show runners are going to need to grow some balls and cut characters from multiple episodes when characters have no advancement in their plot. Even the "main" ones. I will not be able to handle 30 episodes of series
Dany in mereen.
This show can not continue to thrive with check in scenes that only deprive scenes for other characters. If a character has 5 POV's in a 70 chapter book, they shouldn't have a fourth of the show time.

Edit: More talking about Dany here and her ACoK story. I realize Robb had 0 POV's.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Season 2 suffered from feeling the need to check in on certain characters too often. (And others not enough. We didn't get nearly enough Theon, Davos or Stannis compared to the book)

This is going to become a major issue in a couple of years when they get to Feast/Dance and the cast swells to about 4x the size of this season.

Fuzzy said:
It's comments like that that has stopped me from even starting AFFC. :(
Click to expand...

Feast is great. It's just a very different style of book compared to Clash or Storm.
 
A

Arment

Member
AFFC was awesome. People only hate it because it focused more on the southron PoVs. I find most of the characters in the books interesting, so it wasn't a big deal to focus on one region for a while. It's probably my least favorite book, but that's like saying my pinky is my least favorite finger - still glad to have it.

AFFC
And of course, no Tyrion.
 
D

Dany

Banned
Arment said:
AFFC was awesome. People only hate it because it focused more on the southron PoVs.

AFFC
And of course, no Tyrion.
Click to expand...

I just finished it two weeks ago. It was boring, nothing happened to anyone I cared about. I'd say thats a valid complaint, not having half of the POV characters in the AFFC really made it a chore. On the other hand, loving DWD, half way through and its better than AFFC
 
A

Arment

Member
Dany M said:
I just finished it two weeks ago. It was boring, nothing happened to anyone I cared about. I'd say thats a valid complaint, not having half of the POV characters in the AFFC really made it dull and uneventful.
Click to expand...

AFFC
You didn't like the Iron Islands bits? Or Dorne? Or Sansa? Or Cersei? I thought it was nice to take a break from everything else. Flesh out the rest.

ADWD was pretty good though it gets a bit of hate for being slow and uneventful too. It just has the more popular characters in it, which is probably why it's not as criticized.
 
Lactose_Intolerant

Lactose_Intolerant

Member
Dany M said:
I just finished it two weeks ago. It was boring, nothing happened to anyone I cared about. I'd say thats a valid complaint, not having half of the POV characters in the AFFC really made it a chore. On the other hand, loving DWD, half way through and its better than AFFC
Click to expand...

lol, good luck with that
 
D

Dany

Banned
Arment said:
AFFC
You didn't like the Iron Islands bits? Or Dorne? Or Sansa? Or Cersei? I thought it was nice to take a break from everything else. Flesh out the rest.
Click to expand...

I wanted more sansa to be frank, her arch was the only one that interested me. Didn't care for dorne, the tease at the end that they are sided with the targaryions was a decent tease but the entire stealing marcella section, nope. Iron Islands nah. The book should have been shorter, too much fluff in it.

Lactose_Intolerant said:
lol, good luck with that
Click to expand...

:(
 
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