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[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

It still doesn't change how some things fundamentally change the nature of how people will view certain TV characters compared to Book versions. Like with the nature of Robb's marriage on TV versus the Books. And conversely how that affects Cat's character. Having Robb marry Talisa purely out of selfish love as opposed to a sense of honor in the books, changes his whole character. Same with the show holding back news that Theon "killed" Bran and Rickon.

Or something like Qhorin and Jon- the show might be able to build Jon into a leader, but it won't be by Qhorin since they stuck with the main plot points and killed him off. Or with Arya in Harrenhal- she might still develop how she does in the books on the TV show, but in sticking with her leaving Harrenhal by the end of the second book, she's lagging behind character wise and the TV show will presumably need to change more future events to accommodate events that should have already happened in Harrenhal.

After seeing how they handled or didn't handle Jon and Qhorin this season, I'm a bit skeptical how they'll end up managing some of these story and character development changes. The main problem being how they're sticking to the main plot points of the books, but cutting out loads of character development moments, so that the TV versions of characters are majorly lagging behind where they should be when they hit future events.

ASOS

Spoiler

For Jon I can live with him learning leadership from Mance, but he doesn't really spend all that much time with him in the book, so the TV writers will probably just quickly ship him off with Ygritte and we'll get a will they/won't they scenario for 8 weeks. But yeah, they've dropped the ball with character development. They've shown an inability to be able to juggle the amount of different characters this season. Hopefully they work this out as it's only going to get worse.

 

[bengraven]

Fuck, it sucks when you hit to reply to someone and then read a spoiler you didn't wish to read. It's not anyone's fault of course, just a problem inherit with the system.

What I was going to say is that in the part of 2nd book I just read, it sounds like Tyrion basically was like fuck Thorne because of the way he treated him up at the wall.

Man, I'm sorry. I just wouldn't reply to those things or go "@username - I think that's brilliant Mr. Graven".

 

[Trojita]

Man, I'm sorry. I just wouldn't reply to those things or go "@username - I think that's brilliant Mr. Graven".

It's cool man. As an aside, I hope your job prospects turn out better.

 

[Steelyuhas]

As something of a counterpoint to the Cogman interview from Alyssa Rosenberg yesterday, Westeros.org is featuring an article from a Serbian television critic who is not happy with with the adaptation so far:

- An Adaptation Without Honor, or Adaptation Morghulis - This One’s Dead Already

He's mad as hell and he's not going to take it any more.

Wow, I read the first few paragraphs, and he may have some decent points later, but the first few things he complains about are just ridiculous.

 

[bengraven]

It's cool man. As an aside, I hope your job prospects turn out better.

Thank you. I think moving across country to where I grew up is in the cards now, which might work out the best.

 

[ThisWreckage]

How far do you expect HBO to push the depravity of

Spoiler

Ramsay Snow

in this show?

 

[Lumiere]

In the books, it's actually neither of them. It's heavily implied (through several readings it later becomes clearer) that it was a third person who stole tyrions knife and hired someone to kill bran with it, not knowing the value of a dragonbone hilt dagger.

Series:

Spoiler

I wouldn't say it's only implied, I thought Tyrion spells it out very clearly in ASOS from what I remember. Sure, you could say he doesn't have 100% proof but that's different from only being implied, no?

 

[Emerson]

ASOS

Spoiler

For Jon I can live with him learning leadership from Mance, but he doesn't really spend all that much time with him in the book, so the TV writers will probably just quickly ship him off with Ygritte and we'll get a will they/won't they scenario for 8 weeks. But yeah, they've dropped the ball with character development. They've shown an inability to be able to juggle the amount of different characters this season. Hopefully they work this out as it's only going to get worse.

series

Spoiler

You could be right, but I wouldn't be surprised if they give Jon and Mance a lot more time together than the books had. It could work out pretty well IMO.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

series

Spoiler

You could be right, but I wouldn't be surprised if they give Jon and Mance a lot more time together than the books had. It could work out pretty well IMO.

I hope so, and I think it's actually necessary at this point, but I have nagging doubts.

 

[Melchiah]

Fucking nice. Some idiot, who holds a picture blog had decided to post a pic of the ending of Game of Thrones season 2 on his website, without any spoiler warning whatsoever. Don't people realize in their tiny little minds, that not everyone sees the episodes simultaneously across the world? Sometimes I wish you could smack people over the internet, and teach them some common courtesy.

 

[Dany]

Fucking nice. Some idiot, who holds a picture blog had decided to post a pic of the ending of Game of Thrones season 2 on his website, without any spoiler warning whatsoever. Don't people realize in their tiny little minds, that not everyone sees the episodes simultaneously across the world? Sometimes I wish you could smack people over the internet, and teach them some common courtesy.

Amen. Also that sucks, I had SOS ruined for me

 

[Melchiah]

Amen. Also that sucks, I had SOS ruined for me

I can certainly sympathize with that. And to think the episode was aired only six days ago, and the asshole included no warning on such fresh content. Not to mention, that the blog in question had nothing to do with the series, so no-one could have been prepared for it. Seems like you should avoid social networks and all blogs and whatnot, if you don't want to get anything spoiled for you. Luckily NeoGAF is pretty safe in that regard. =)

 

[kirblar]

Just don't be one of those DVD-waiters who complains about getting spoiled 6 months after the episode has aired.

 

[anaron]

That Adaptation Morghulis review is so perfect.

 

[Melchiah]

Just don't be one of those DVD-waiters who complains about getting spoiled 6 months after the episode has aired.

Well, that's a highly different matter, like it would have been if the blog keeper had posted a spoiler about the ending of season 1.

 

[Levi]

Just don't be one of those DVD-waiters who complains about getting spoiled 6 months after the episode has aired.

Why not? People in this very thread are bitching about spoilers that are over a decade old. What is the cut-off, if 12 years aren't enough?

 

[Kammie]

That Adaptation Morghulis review is so perfect.

I disliked this season more than most, but to base his main argument on couple fast-motion swordfights (which are mostly a stylistic or editing choice and have nothing to do with adapting the work) and proclaiming that the show fails because of that is ridiculous. Should we also complain when any slow-motion scenes come up, because they feel unnatural?

There's some good criticism here, but it's filled with too much nitpicking and crap like the following sentence: "Sandor’s feelings for Sansa constitute one of the most memorable love stories of all times." Reading stuff like that, I can't take this guy's opinion seriously.

And I think he discredits the producers way too much. I've called them hacks myself, but not ALL that they do is bad. It's not that easy to put this stuff together.

 

[Trojita]

Fucking nice. Some idiot, who holds a picture blog had decided to post a pic of the ending of Game of Thrones season 2 on his website, without any spoiler warning whatsoever. Don't people realize in their tiny little minds, that not everyone sees the episodes simultaneously across the world? Sometimes I wish you could smack people over the internet, and teach them some common courtesy.

I accidentally clicked on the unmarked spoiler thread today and had a part of SOS spoiled for me. Well at least one death.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

Fucking nice. Some idiot, who holds a picture blog had decided to post a pic of the ending of Game of Thrones season 2 on his website, without any spoiler warning whatsoever. Don't people realize in their tiny little minds, that not everyone sees the episodes simultaneously across the world? Sometimes I wish you could smack people over the internet, and teach them some common courtesy.

What was the picture of?

 

[Emerson]

That Adaptation Morghulis review is so perfect.

Only if you're clinically insane.

 

[anaron]

Only if you're clinically insane.

I meant hilarious. Jeez.

 

[PhoenixDark]

As something of a counterpoint to the Cogman interview from Alyssa Rosenberg yesterday, Westeros.org is featuring an article from a Serbian television critic who is not happy with with the adaptation so far:

- An Adaptation Without Honor, or Adaptation Morghulis - This One’s Dead Already

Speaking of Arya and Lannister soldiers, they seem to adore her! Lannister troops protect Arya in every possible way: first, when Amory Lorch tries to catch her in a yard crowded with his fellow soldiers, not a single soldier helps him by stopping Arya; second, after Amory’s death, Lord Tywin orders his Gestapo to find out what happened, and Gestapo engages in the task without shying away from hanging their fellow soldiers who fail to give them satisfying answers, however, none of the soldiers exposes Arya as the one who just a moment ago was trying to escape Ser Amory. Hence, the Baltimore police may rest easy now, because Tywin’s Gestapo surpassed them as the single most ineffective investigative unit on television.

This can't be stressed enough. I thought that was one of the weakest moments of the series, perhaps the weakest since the stable boy nonsense lol

EDIT: Some lol worthy nitpicking aside ("swing times!"), I feel like his critique is on point. The show just feels...off in many ways that seperate truly great shows from average to good shows

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

This can't be stressed enough. I thought that was one of the weakest moments of the series, perhaps the weakest since the stable boy nonsense lol

EDIT: Some lol worthy nitpicking aside ("swing times!"), I feel like his critique is on point. The show just feels...off in many ways that seperate truly great shows from average to good shows

He does make some questionable and poor critiques but he's right about the show when he talks about Arya, Jon, and Dany.

Where he goes a bit absurd, it is quite funny but no more than Cogman's defense of Ros.

 

[Emerson]

He does make some questionable and poor critiques but he's right about the show when he talks about Arya, Jon, and Dany.

Where he goes a bit absurd, it is quite funny but no more than Cogman's defense of Ros.

I don't particularly like Ros either, but I think Cogman's explanations about those characters make sense and they should be given some benefit of the doubt. Either way it shows that the writers are at the very least not just completely oblivious like some would imply.

 

[KingK]

I finally got around to watching the season finale. I can't believe how badly they fucked up Jon's story. How fucking hard would it be to have one 2 minute scene between Qhorin and Jon establishing what Qhorin wants Jon to do. Fucking terrible. Also, Dany's scenes continue to be bad and seem like something you would find on a Sci-Fi channel original series. I don't mind that as much as them fucking up Jon or Arya's stories because I don't give much of a shit about Dany in the books or the show, but still.

It's a shame really. I thought the first season was really good, while not without flaws, and I thought this season started off better than the first, but it quickly started dropping in quality. The more the writers deviate from the novels, the worse the show gets. I'm trying really hard to approach this show from an objective point of view and ignore my knowledge of the books, but I'm starting to think that the writers might just objectively suck. They don't seem to be able to make anything work well when they have to be even slightly different from the book. There are very few exceptions to this (Theon's arc being the only one I can think of).

 

[Wray]

So I was thinking about the final scenes today from each season and something occurred to me. Each final scene heavily played up the magic/supernatural side of the story, as well as the "magic is returning to the world" theme. It makes me wonder if that is intentional or not and whether or not they plan to do that each season. Especially when you consider that

Spoiler

there is a real good chance that the final scene in Season 3 could be the Lady Stoneheart reveal. Considering that moving that scene up to S3 makes a ton of sense as compared to doing it at the end of Season 4, which would be a full year after the events of the Red Wedding.

Any guesses on what they can end S4 and S5 with if they followed that formula?

Also, another thing to take note of is the symbolism in those final scenes. The series is called "A Song of Ice and Fire". Season One ended with Dragons (Fire), while Season Two ended with White Walkers (Ice). Are they trying to tell us something?

 

[Cornballer]

- WiC.net: The Daily Raven 16: Valar Morghulis Recap

 

[Emerson]

I finally got around to watching the season finale. I can't believe how badly they fucked up Jon's story. How fucking hard would it be to have one 2 minute scene between Qhorin and Jon establishing what Qhorin wants Jon to do. Fucking terrible. Also, Dany's scenes continue to be bad and seem like something you would find on a Sci-Fi channel original series. I don't mind that as much as them fucking up Jon or Arya's stories because I don't give much of a shit about Dany in the books or the show, but still.

It's a shame really. I thought the first season was really good, while not without flaws, and I thought this season started off better than the first, but it quickly started dropping in quality. The more the writers deviate from the novels, the worse the show gets. I'm trying really hard to approach this show from an objective point of view and ignore my knowledge of the books, but I'm starting to think that the writers might just objectively suck. They don't seem to be able to make anything work well when they have to be even slightly different from the book. There are very few exceptions to this (Theon's arc being the only one I can think of).

I agree that it wasn't done incredibly well, but Qhorin definitely did say what he wanted Jon to do.

 

[theignoramus]

How far do you expect HBO to push the depravity of

Spoiler

Ramsay Snow

in this show?

series spoilers:

Spoiler

why wouldnt they, he'll be the new Joffrey for at least 4 seasons. they will milk ramsay snow's villainy for everything it's worth, especially when Joff gets got.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

I just saw a commercial on TV for the "new season" that starts on April 1st. What?

 

[Inversive]

I accidentally clicked on the unmarked spoiler thread today and had a part of SOS spoiled for me. Well at least one death.

Which death was spoiled for you?

 

[Jibbajabbawockky]

I don't particularly like Ros either, but I think Cogman's explanations about those characters make sense and they should be given some benefit of the doubt. Either way it shows that the writers are at the very least not just completely oblivious like some would imply.

The problem with Ros is that they're saying she's the non noble /commoner POV on the world. When for season 2, Arya's storyline should have really been the commoner's POV to the world at war. If Arya didn't start off in Harrenhal as Tywin's cupbearer and had to work her way up to that, like the books that would have come across better. Whereas Harrenhal in the show never seemed that bad for Arya.

It just seems they keep Ros around so they can keep showing more gratuitous nudity, like that one interview with Neil Marshall stated.

 

[Trojita]

Which death was spoiled for you?

Series Spoilers

Spoiler

I had Joffrey's spoiled earlier but in the Unmarked spoilers topic I had Robb's death spoiled.

 

[Cornballer]

- Elio from Westeros.org: Talking Game of Thrones: Mysteries and Enigmas *spoilers*

A discussion of prophecy and the House of the Undying in the tv show versus the books.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

The problem with Ros is that they're saying she's the non noble /commoner POV on the world. When for season 2, Arya's storyline should have really been the commoner's POV to the world at war. If Arya didn't start off in Harrenhal as Tywin's cupbearer and had to work her way up to that, like the books that would have come across better. Whereas Harrenhal in the show never seemed that bad for Arya.

It just seems they keep Ros around so they can keep showing more gratuitous nudity, like that one interview with Neil Marshall stated.

Not only that but did anyone out there actually equate Ros to a commoner point of view that actually said anything when watching her scenes? And he seems to get protective towards the actress and I don't think any complaint out there has been about her acting abilities. She's a stand-in character there to provide a wall for other characters to talk to and explain motivatiions or not some commoner point of view. She doesn't really bother me all that much, but I really hope they're not going to give her her own plot line next season, they can't even handle the current storyline they have.

 

[Cornballer]

- WiC.net: Two new GoT Parody videos

 

[Dany]

Yo, I'm looking for some GOT shirts, I remember seeing a Stark shirt of a cute direwolf saying "winter is coming" and some of the other houses, does anyone know where I can get one>

 

[smuldegspaj]

Last season was better overall.

still probably the best show ever made.

If sopranos took characters to the next level, this continues that but also adds a real narrative. It makes such a difference when you know the show has a clear road map. It never feels like the show treads water or bloated with fillers.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Last season was better overall.

still probably the best show ever made.

If sopranos took characters to the next level, this continues that but also adds a real narrative. It makes such a difference when you know the show has a clear road map. It never feels like the show treads water or bloated with fillers.

What?

 

[smuldegspaj]

what what?

 

[Arment]

Last season was better overall.

still probably the best show ever made.

If sopranos took characters to the next level, this continues that but also adds a real narrative. It makes such a difference when you know the show has a clear road map. It never feels like the show treads water or bloated with fillers.

I love the books more than any other book I've read. I wanted this show to be the best of all time. I'd ignore a lot to believe it was. But it's not the best show ever made. It's not even close. It could reach those levels, but the show runners would need to disappear mysteriously and be replaced with someone else. Someone who knows the difference between adapting for tv and adapting for tv while maintaining quality story arcs. That's all that's stopping Game of Thrones from becoming a top 10 show for me.

I mean, hey, I love the show. I get hyped for it. I'm so glad it's being done. But it falls short of a lot of greatness it could have achieved.

 

[Frost_Ace]

found this pretty funny.

 

[Arment]

found this pretty funny.

A few things seem off. Pete's rival could be viewed as Roger way more than Don. How is Yara Theon's achilles heel? Theon is his own achilles heel. Theon doesn't really resent Robb for his success does he? It's more like he had to choose between his family (and being the Lord of House Greyjoy) or Robb whom he only had allegiance to because he was a glorified hostage. I'd say Theon's crappiest move was killing two innocent kids rather than Rodrick who lived a full life of honor, waging battle and serving his Lord.

Heh.

 

[MNC]

There was an article on the 10 best changes the show made to ACOK in the adaptation posted earlier, which I thought did a great job explaining why including Reek this season would've been way too convoluted. His backstory and why he's actually at Winterfell is mostly written secondhand in the book.

Found the article: http://io9.com/5915744/10-best-changes-game-of-thrones-made-to-a-clash-of-kings

Hah, I totally did not get the Reek thing. Write it up to English being a second language. I know of Bolton's bastard showing up but had no clue there was a switcharoo.

 

[Levi]

Last season was better overall.

still probably the best show ever made.

If sopranos took characters to the next level, this continues that but also adds a real narrative. It makes such a difference when you know the show has a clear road map. It never feels like the show treads water or bloated with fillers.

Well-played. Your troll almost got me. "The best show ever made", ha! I would have thought you were serious but saying "never... bloated with fillers" was just too hyperbolic to take seriously.

Lol

 

[Frost_Ace]

A few things seem off. Pete's rival could be viewed as Roger way more than Don. How is Yara Theon's achilles heel? Theon is his own achilles heel. Theon doesn't really resent Robb for his success does he? It's more like he had to choose between his family (and being the Lord of House Greyjoy) or Robb whom he only had allegiance to because he was a glorified hostage. I'd say Theon's crappiest move was killing two innocent kids rather than Rodrick who lived a full life of honor, waging battle and serving his Lord.

Heh.

In the first series it's definitely Don. He always tries to impress him and even admits that he wants his job; and do you remember what he did at the lucky strike presentation in the pilot?

About the Yara thing: yeah she's not exactly his weakness but she and her father manipulated him into betraying the Starks.

And I'd say that killing ser Rodrik was wy worse than killing the two kids at least from a strategic standpoint since the Starks would have acted with more delicacy towards him if he had been an hostage.

 

[Nlroh]

I'm not even sure if I liked better the first or second season. Even though I enjoyed it, this one wasn't that good. Some of the middle episodes (6-8) were kind of boring. BUT, and this is a big one, Blackwater is the best tv episode ever.

Yo, I'm looking for some GOT shirts, I remember seeing a Stark shirt of a cute direwolf saying "winter is coming" and some of the other houses, does anyone know where I can get one>

This one? http://www.threadless.com/product/3567/Adopt_A_Dire_Wolf/?streetteam=Blot911

 

[Frost_Ace]

This one? http://www.threadless.com/product/3567/Adopt_A_Dire_Wolf/?streetteam=Blot911

They're sold out, I would have liked one

 

[Nlroh]

They're sold out, I would have liked one

I know
There are also some awesome designs that never got printed. I would love to buy this one:
http://www.threadless.com/submission/409394/Game_of_musical_thrones

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

found this pretty funny.

Should have been that hornblower as his nemesis.

*pwwaaaaaaaaaap*