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[Cornballer]

- Westeros.org takes a look at the three actresses that are seemingly joining the cast soon. (These are the same names/roles reported by WiC.net yesterday. They just posted some related videos and other material.)

yeah, it seems like this one is a wasteland and it might be better to start talking up season 3, especially as that is where the news is heading. I definitely like the idea of an offseason one though.

I think that would be a good idea.

I'll try and figure something out in the next couple of weeks provided there's enough interest.

Yeah I think a GoT Show Offseason thread would be a very smart decision. We're already close to 20k and we can just retire the two season threads and have 1 off season thread.

It's probably best to leave the no book spoilers thread open as those people need somewhere to talk about the show. The new thread would just take the place of this one. I'll start looking into it...

 

[Cornballer]

New poll from WiC.net:

- WiCnet Awards Season Two: Best Supporting Actor

 

[Steelyuhas]

Complaining about Blackwater is fine. I mentioned the chain and interlocking ships for the sake of discussing particular differences between the show and book. I was not expecting the chain and everything else. I'm not delusional. What I was expecting from Blackwater and what is my major gripe with how they handled it is the reduced impact of Tyrion on that event. Tyrion met the pyromancer and then spent the rest of the season chasing Shae around instead of planning how to win that battle. It diminished his story.

I can understand your complaints about Tyrion in this case, but it was a clear writing decision from the start to focus more on the personal relationships for most of the characters than the war. At least with Tyrion it was a balance of both, as opposed to Robb, which they basically left out anything about him fighting a war.

You could even say that decisions made with Jon were in the same vein, with the focus on Ygritte instead of the Halfhand.

This is a change that I don't like (especially with Robb and Jon), but Tyrion hardly got the worst of this change in the show compared to Robb and Jon, and I thought the actual battle of Blackwater itself was awesome.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Complaining about Blackwater is fine. I mentioned the chain and interlocking ships for the sake of discussing particular differences between the show and book. I was not expecting the chain and everything else. I'm not delusional. What I was expecting from Blackwater and what is my major gripe with how they handled it is the reduced impact of Tyrion on that event. Tyrion met the pyromancer and then spent the rest of the season chasing Shae around instead of planning how to win that battle. It diminished his story.

I agree with this. The Blackwater episode was great, but I was really disappointed with how little Tyrion actually did in the lead up to it. In the show, Tyrion does almost no actual planning for the battle, which is a real shame, because I think it diminishes his arc.

 

[EulaCapra]

Yes! I got more friends and family hooked on the series! Great to see reactions from them with Ned in that pivotal moment.

Question-GAF, from the progression of the story in the books, will Daenerys actually get something to do once season 3's arc is settled? She had her big moments in the s2 finale, but she basically just stood still and talked for 35 seconds until the scene for the brunt of s2.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Yes! I got more friends and family hooked on the series! Great to see reactions from them with Ned in that pivotal moment.

Question-GAF, from the progression of the story in the books, will Daenerys actually get something to do once season 3's arc is settled? She had her big moments in the s2 finale, but she basically just stood still and talked for 35 seconds until the scene for the brunt of s2.

ASOS mini spoiler to the question above

Spoiler

she should get a lot more to do, but the shows budget may limit her storyline. She's a relatively minor character in the second book but does become a major player again in the third

As long as I don't hear anymore about the richest man in Qarth anymore her storyline will be an improvement. I know it's too much to ask that she won't yell about being the mother of dragons and fire and blood anymore.

 

[Forsaken82]

I agree with this. The Blackwater episode was great, but I was really disappointed with how little Tyrion actually did in the lead up to it. In the show, Tyrion does almost no actual planning for the battle, which is a real shame, because I think it diminishes his arc.

I don't quite agree with this... While it is clear that the writers didn't want to focus on Tyrion plotting to protect Kings Landing from stannis, I think they intended for the viewer to assume a lot it was handled off screen. In my opinion, the scenes in which hes reading the map of kings landing looking for weaknesses and advantages was the only scenes they needed...

 

[Dany]

I don't quite agree with this... While it is clear that the writers didn't want to focus on Tyrion plotting to protect Kings Landing from stannis, I think they intended for the viewer to assume a lot it was handled off screen. In my opinion, the scenes in which hes reading the map of kings landing looking for weaknesses and advantages was the only scenes they needed...

That plus we totally see the pyromancer come to tyrion as he is about to give Bronn the signal about the wildfire.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

That plus we totally see the pyromancer come to tyrion as he is about to give Bronn the signal about the wildfire.

Yeah, but the wildfire was Cersei's plan. In the books, the plans that Tyrion made were just as important as the wildfire (which wasn't his idea to begin with). In the show, he basically just seizes upon Cersei's wildfire plot.

 

[Kapsama]

Yeah, but the wildfire was Cersei's plan. In the books, the plans that Tyrion made were just as important as the wildfire (which wasn't his idea to begin with). In the show, he basically just seizes upon Cersei's wildfire plot.

Yeah no mention of the hill tribes burning the Kingswood or the Chain or the training with empty pots that Tyrion assigned was disappointing.

 

["God's Beard!"]

God, I love the 2nd book so far, much better than the first. The first book felt like I was watching a worse version of the first season all over again, but this one is much better.

Wow. I think you are the first person ever to feel that the show is more subtle than the books. Most book readers feel like the show is way too overt in its characterization (Littlefinger goes from dubious schemer to mustache-twirling villain, for example).

I dunno, I love Littlefinger in the show. And Cersei and Catelyn seem way incompetent in the books compared to the show. Of course, my boy Syrio Forel was so cool in the show. God I hope he comes back. Anyone from Braavos is my favorite. Also, Dany seemed like a carbon copy of her brother in the book, and I didn't like her in the show to begin with. I think they just give better parts to better actors in the show. Drogo and Littlefinger had great sections in the show, and Syrio was barely in the book.

God's Beard, there's a massive reveal that is likely coming soon in the book series but so far I've seen nary a hint in the tv series. There are quite a few Chekov's guns strewn throughout, and a lot of them lie in dreams, prophesies, songs, and visions; stuff that is left out of the tv series. Hell, Dany's Undying sequence in the books lays out major plot points that we're about to hit in The Winds of Winter.

Read the books, man.

The red priest was the only reason I finished the 1st book. He kept coming up and I didn't remember anything from the show about him, but nothing wound up happening. At this point there's no reason to skip anything, though.

Yeah no mention of the hill tribes burning the Kingswood or the Chain or the training with empty pots that Tyrion assigned was disappointing.

This is something I'm glad to the books for. You never really see the tribes in the show again.

 

[Ark]

What? The Blackfish alone makes book one better than the series. Can't wait to see the Blackfish in season 3, I really hope they cast him well, one of my favourite characters in the series.

 

[Steelyuhas]

What? The Blackfish alone makes book one better than the series. Can't wait to see the Blackfish in season 3, I really hope they cast him well, one of my favourite characters in the series.

Blackfish is one of my favorites as well, can't wait for him in the show. Him and (Light ASOS/season 3 spoiler)

Spoiler

Robb in scenes together is going to be a lot of badassery in one room.

 

["God's Beard!"]

 

[Massa]

Yeah, but the wildfire was Cersei's plan. In the books, the plans that Tyrion made were just as important as the wildfire (which wasn't his idea to begin with). In the show, he basically just seizes upon Cersei's wildfire plot.

Strongly disagree. On the TV show he turns Cersei's "let's throw jars of wildfire on them" into a beatiful explosion that destroyed most of Stannis' fleet. If anything he was more important on the show than on the book.

People are considering things that only happened in the book to assume otherwise. For example:

Yeah no mention of the hill tribes burning the Kingswood or the Chain or the training with empty pots that Tyrion assigned was disappointing.

This was completely irrelevant on the TV version of Blackwater. Tyrion didn't have to do that, he did something far more cunning.

 

[SouthernDragon]

The show leaves a lot to the viewer to decipher. Tyrion's scenes indicated that he had a lot to do with the planning of the defense. Joffrey certainly wasn't going to do anything except tell the City Guard to smash itself against Stannis, and Cercei is clever enough to possibly burn down King's Landing.

The show only has so much time to show events; it can usually only hint at them. And that's fine, as long as we can tell what's going on.

 

[Loofy]

This was completely irrelevant on the TV version of Blackwater. Tyrion didn't have to do that, he did something far more cunning.

The way the tv portrayed it though would make it seem that he didnt do anything. Cersei commissioned the fire and for all we know it was always the plan to use it as a bomb.

 

[Steelyuhas]

The way the tv portrayed it though would make it seem that he didnt do anything. Cersei commissioned the fire and for all we know it was always the plan to use it as a bomb.

The whole conversation when Bronn and Tyrion go to see the Wildfire was about throwing or shooting pots wildfire from the walls, not using it as a bomb with the boat, so it's quite clear that he comes up with the idea of how to use it.

 

[Joni]

The way the tv portrayed it though would make it seem that he didnt do anything. Cersei commissioned the fire and for all we know it was always the plan to use it as a bomb.

I don't know anything about the books. To me it was completely clear it was all Tyrion's plan.

 

[NathanMcMahon]

I don't know anything about the books. To me it was completely clear it was all Tyrion's plan.

And that is why the writing is great. Because people who don't know about the book can follow along and enjoy it.

 

["God's Beard!"]

The way the tv portrayed it though would make it seem that he didnt do anything. Cersei commissioned the fire and for all we know it was always the plan to use it as a bomb.

Wasn't the conversation in the show about how dangerous it would be to arm people on the walls with wildfire, because in the heat of battle they'd wind up blowing up their own city? I remember Bronn and Tyrion talking about it. So Tyrion took it all to make a safer plan. Tyrion seemed pretty shocked about Cersei's commission and I thought he was trying to save everyone from her as much as Stannis.

 

[Cornballer]

- WiC.net: Clive Russell cast as the Blackfish

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Looks about right.

 

[Levi]

And that is why the writing is great. Because people who don't know about the book can follow along and enjoy it.

You can't use Blackwater to praise the writing -- GRRM was able to fix/work around many of the show's missteps because he actually can write. Nearly every featured character had their best episode of the season with him behind the dialogue.

I do have to give credit to D&D for the Hound/Bronn exchange, as that was their contribution to the script, not Martin's. Funnily enough, D&D also rewrote the Tywin/Bronn introduction from Martin's previous script. Clearly, they've taken a shine to Bronn, and unlike Jeyne or Tywin or Petyr, et al, their additions have been improvements.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

- WiC.net: Clive Russell cast as the Blackfish

Finally. He certainly has the look. I look forward to finally seeing the Blackfish on the show.

 

[Ark]

Looks good to me.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Finally. He certainly has the look. I look forward to finally seeing the Blackfish on the show.

ASOS

Spoiler

of course now that he's on he doesn't really have much to do, unless they change a bunch of shit. Which they surely will, hopefully they make decent changes along the lines of what they did in season 1.

 

[NathanMcMahon]

You can't use Blackwater to praise the writing -- GRRM was able to fix/work around many of the show's missteps because he actually can write. Nearly every featured character had their best episode of the season with him behind the dialogue.

I do have to give credit to D&D for the Hound/Bronn exchange, as that was their contribution to the script, not Martin's. Funnily enough, D&D also rewrote the Tywin/Bronn introduction from Martin's previous script. Clearly, they've taken a shine to Bronn, and unlike Jeyne or Tywin or Petyr, et al, their additions have been improvements.

Man, this is just weird on so many levels. Okay. What can I do, as my opinions apparently have to be dictated by you?

 

[Steelyuhas]

- WiC.net: Clive Russell cast as the Blackfish

Yes! The Blackfish!

 

[Eggplant Wizard]

I do have to give credit to D&D for the Hound/Bronn exchange, as that was their contribution to the script, not Martin's. Funnily enough, D&D also rewrote the Tywin/Bronn introduction from Martin's previous script. Clearly, they've taken a shine to Bronn, and unlike Jeyne or Tywin or Petyr, et al, their additions have been improvements.

What haven't you liked about Tywin's added material? I'm much more invested in his character than I was at this point in the books.

 

[bengraven]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XMV0QdymQU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08Tlb420zAA&feature=related

Perfect.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

What haven't you liked about Tywin's added material? I'm much more invested in his character than I was at this point in the books.

Theyve done a great job with Tywin, mostly because of the awesome Charles Dance. But his extra time came at the expense of Arya's development and her great storyline at Harrenhal. I think there were ways they could have accomplished both but they didn't.

 

[DrForester]

I think they developed Arya as independent, which his what that section was for. Only thing that I think they should have included was her killing a guard in their escape from Harenhall. She killed the kid in King's landing, but that was self defense. I think that was pretty significant for her. But the changes made sense both for developing Tywin, who has very very little development until the 3rd book, and becasue there needed to be dialogue for Arya. Her time at Harenhall in the books is almost all inner dialogue, she almost never talked, except to Jaqen.

 

[Forsaken82]

The way the tv portrayed it though would make it seem that he didnt do anything. Cersei commissioned the fire and for all we know it was always the plan to use it as a bomb.

But he clearly DID do something...

Cersei's plan for the Wildfire had nothing to do with its usefulness in the TV show. Cersei may have gotten the production started, but she didn't know how to utilize it. Tyrion planned (or rather strategized) where the attack would take place (by figuring out where the weakest points in kings landing were), how to utilize the wildfire to its fullest to cause the most carnage, how to flank the enemy should they make it ashore. These were all scenes portrayed on the show.

From the shows standpoint, he did plenty planning. I read the books to. I know what he does in the books as well as the next guy, but again looking at this from a viewers standpoint who didn't know the books existed. What viewer is going to care about a chain they don't even know existed when what Tyrion did on the show served a similar purpose?

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

I think they developed Arya as independent, which his what that section was for. Only thing that I think they should have included was her killing a guard in their escape from Harenhall. She killed the kid in King's landing, but that was self defense. I think that was pretty significant for her. But the changes made sense both for developing Tywin, who has very very little development until the 3rd book, and becasue there needed to be dialogue for Arya. Her time at Harenhall in the books is almost all inner dialogue, she almost never talked, except to Jaqen.

Why they didn't have her kill someone still confuses the hell out of me and would have fixed 90% of my problems with it. A girl should get het hands dirty as well.

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

ASOS

Spoiler

of course now that he's on he doesn't really have much to do, unless they change a bunch of shit. Which they surely will, hopefully they make decent changes along the lines of what they did in season 1.

Yeah, the dude was awesome in the 1st book. He's one of the main reasons they can capture Jaime because he kills all the scouts. Plus he was in the forefront of the attack on Riverrun. He's still cool in the 3rd book, but like you said,

Spoiler

he doesn't do a whole bunch.

 

[Steelyuhas]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XMV0QdymQU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08Tlb420zAA&feature=related

Perfect.

Sounds great. Can't wait for this character on-screen.

Why they didn't have her kill someone still confuses the hell out of me and would have fixed 90% of my problems with it. A girl should get het hands dirty as well.

Bryan Cogman said that they (ACOK/ASOS spoilers)

Spoiler

That they intentionally didn't have Ayra develop as a killer at Harrenhal like in the book. They think it makes more sense to do that over time in the TV series, referencing her experiences over the next two seasons will make her a killer.

 

[bengraven]

I wonder if HBO will confirm some internet speculation now.

Series speculation:

Spoiler

that the Blackfish is also gay

Yeah, the dude was awesome in the 1st book. He's one of the main reasons they can capture Jaime because he kills all the scouts. Plus he was in the forefront of the attack on Riverrun. He's still cool in the 3rd book, but like you said,

Spoiler

he doesn't do a whole bunch.

It's mentioned in the first season that Cat's dad is sick, so I'm assuming the Tully/Riverun storyline from the first three books will be brought into this season. Robb needs a castle anyway, instead of spending so much time in camp and since he's going to want to spend quite a bit of time away from his mom for two good reasons (what she did and what HE did) I can see this being the big point of Cat's story this season.

 

[Pollux]

- WiC.net: Clive Russell cast as the Blackfish

Niiiice. Can't wait for his appearance next season.

I wonder if HBO will confirm some internet speculation now.

Series speculation:

Spoiler

that the Blackfish is also gay

Maybe then can have him hook up with Ren...

Oh, wait. Nvm. How about Loras instead.

 

[bengraven]

Niiiice. Can't wait for his appearance next season.



Maybe then can have him hook up with Ren...

Oh, wait. Nvm. How about Loras instead.

Nah, this isn't Marvel Comics, where you shoehorn couples together.

 

[Cpt.Underpants]

I wonder if HBO will confirm some internet speculation now.

Series speculation:

Spoiler

that the Blackfish is also gay

Spoiler

How was it speculated that the Blackfish was gay? Was it because he refused an arranged marriage?

Got a bad memory

 

[Pollux]

Nah, this isn't Marvel Comics, where you shoehorn couples together.

Hahaha touche

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Sounds great. Can't wait for this character on-screen.



Bryan Cogman said that they (ACOK/ASOS spoilers)

Spoiler

That they intentionally didn't have Ayra develop as a killer at Harrenhal like in the book. They think it makes more sense to do that over time in the TV series, referencing her experiences over the next two seasons will make her a killer.

Yeah, I had read that. But it's still something that I disagree with for now. They could have something up their sleeves that makes me change my mind further down the road we will see. It also would have made more sense for Jaqen to give her the coin if she had killed someone, other than in the awkward stable boy scene (and yeah she got the coin before killing the guard in the book, but it felt more like she had already earned it there)

 

[marrec]

I don't quite agree with this... While it is clear that the writers didn't want to focus on Tyrion plotting to protect Kings Landing from stannis, I think they intended for the viewer to assume a lot it was handled off screen. In my opinion, the scenes in which hes reading the map of kings landing looking for weaknesses and advantages was the only scenes they needed...

I'm going to agree with you here, Tyrion was obviously the savior of Kings Landing in the show, nobody else had any sort of planning or plotting.

 

[Levi]

What haven't you liked about Tywin's added material? I'm much more invested in his character than I was at this point in the books.

The added Tywin material is pointless, and is at the expense of Arya's development.

On the subject of Tywin, how dumb is it countless Lannister soldiers are tortured, killed, during questioning about the death of Amory Lorch, but no one mentions that Tywin's cup-bearer had an altercation with him, immediately prior to his death? You'd think at least one of the dozens of witnesses would speak up.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

The added Tywin material is pointless, and is at the expense of Arya's development.

On the subject of Tywin, how dumb is it countless Lannister soldiers are tortured, killed, during questioning about the death of Amory Lorch, but no one mentions that Tywin's cup-bearer had an altercation with him, immediately prior to his death? You'd think at least one of the dozens of witnesses would speak up.

Not to mention the fact that Tywin realizes that his cupbearer is a northern highborn...and does fuck all with that. That makes her a potentially valuable hostage to be ransomed, but he's just kind of like 'eh, look after Gregor for me'. It boggles the mind. If he hadn't realized that, I'd be okay with it, but having Tywin voice his knowledge of that and do nothing with it makes him seem rather ineffectual.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Not to mention the fact that Tywin realizes that his cupbearer is a northern highborn...and does fuck all with that. That makes her a potentially valuable hostage to be ransomed, but he's just kind of like 'eh, look after Gregor for me'. It boggles the mind. If he hadn't realized that, I'd be okay with it, but having Tywin voice his knowledge of that and do nothing with it makes him seem rather ineffectual.

Yeah and he didn't even wonder how a northern noble girl came to be at Harrenhal. I don't think soldiers take their daughters to war with them, so what is she doing in the Riverlands? Curious stuff.

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

Yeah and he didn't even wonder how a northern noble girl came to be at Harrenhal. I don't think soldiers take their daughters to war with them, so what is she doing in the Riverlands?

One of the Northern lord took his daughter with him so that she could seduce Robb. The lord said that she was going to cook for him.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

One of the Northern lord took his daughter with him so that she could seduce Robb. The lord said that she was going to cook for him.

Oh yeah, but she wasn't 10. Which would give someone like Tywin real cause to wonder what she's doing there.

 

[DrForester]

Not to mention the fact that Tywin realizes that his cupbearer is a northern highborn...and does fuck all with that. That makes her a potentially valuable hostage to be ransomed, but he's just kind of like 'eh, look after Gregor for me'. It boggles the mind. If he hadn't realized that, I'd be okay with it, but having Tywin voice his knowledge of that and do nothing with it makes him seem rather ineffectual.

I really didn't mind that. He could have blown it off, assuming she was an orphan. Why would a highborn girl be traveling by herself, disguised as a boy if not with her parents. Highborn girls aren't independent. There was no reason to think she was anything but the daughter of some low lord. Who else would she have been? I had more of an issue with the stupid "lets bring in Littlefinger for suspense" thing than Tywin not really caring about this dirty girl with no name.

Though with no idea where they're going with Arya in the books. Maybe she ends up somewhere Littlefinger has influence and they're just bypassing stuff.

ASOS

Spoiler

I just finished the chapter where she arrived at Acorn hall.