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[Brolic Gaoler]

woops

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

This should be getting more attention. This is huge.

Also from Gamestrailers.

http://www.gametrailers.com/side-mission/63690/all-xbox-one-games-will-have-dedicated-servers

 

[venomous mindset]

I came here to give my thoughts on this recent development. I said that the Xbox One allowing free dedicated servers to all multiplayer games that uses Xbox Live if the developers choose so is a good thing and it does have me starting to reconsider my stance on the Xbox One since it is an advantage. But I am not going to jump the gun and say this will be a huge advantage over the PlayStation 4 because we don't know the impact this will have yet nor does this alone make a total 180 stance on me getting an Xbox One.

You responded in agreement to a post bemoaning others for making a big deal. Then in several other post you went on to say why you loath MS. But whatever the topic at hand is the dedicated servers. They are an advantage flat out how much so remains to be seen.

 

[N.Domixis]

This should be getting more attention. This is huge.

Most of the major Publishers have their own servers. And just like some devs do not use the ps4's full power to make it perform significantly, why would they use the xbox's dedicated severs? Some will want parity between all versions. Besides aren't the majority of next gen games using dedicated servers on both already, that's all that matters.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Most of the major Publishers have their own servers. And just like some devs do not use the ps4's full power to make it perform significantly, why would they use the xbox's dedicated severs? Some will want parity between all versions. Besides aren't the majority of next gen games using dedicated servers on both already, that's all that matters.

I haven't heard anything about all games having dedicated servers on PS4 at all.

 

[TechnicPuppet]

heh





They didn't include mandatory install times in their comparisons for PS3 and used no-install 360 games in their load-time comparisons so highly doubt dedicated servers will factor in their comparisons. Or was that that other comparison site, can't remember.

I don't think we will need comparisons. PS4 slightly better graphics. XB1 better online.

 

[Bsigg12]

This should be getting more attention. This is huge.

Also from Gamestrailers.

http://www.gametrailers.com/side-mission/63690/all-xbox-one-games-will-have-dedicated-servers

It is, Kotaku just put up an article about it.

 

[SwiftDeath]

I don't think we will need comparisons. PS4 slightly better graphics. XB1 better online.

It could turn out this way for games that use XB1's dedicated server offer and P2P on PS4

I think it will happen of course, I'm just curious how often it will?

And for those that have dedi's on both (COD, BF) is it the same server setup on both?

I wish I knew

 

[yankeehater]

That right there, ladies and gentlemen, is where the line was crossed.

It wasnt crossed by the people earlier saying how much they hate MS and that they hope they leave the hardware business?

 

[Naminator]

All traffic is always routed through a proxy for everything you do.
Every bit of information you send over the internet is passed on through a whole bunch of different proxies as it is handed on from isp to isp , to get to you.

None of the game logic is done on an outside server, it's not exactly like p2p, it is p2p
One player hosts the game logic on his ps4 , acting as listen server (those two words are like a nail on a chalkboard for any gamer who'se been around multiplayer gaming on pc for long enough) , everything is sent to him, calculated on his console.

A regular consumer does not have the connection to deal with this traffic.. they will have too much packet loss (hilariously much if they are on wifi) and too much bandwidth choke to deal with it all, and the simulation is only done at the framerate the game is running on.

A good dedicated server will run the hit detection and other game logic at anywhere between 128 to 1000 times per second and equally importantly will not have routing issues like packet loss or bandwidth choke (bandwidth can't keep up so packets are put in a queue and arrive delayed)

If there are routing issues to a certain server, you and your friends quit it and pick one that works normally, and if one player has a bad connection only that player suffers, noone else does.


p2p multiplayer is always shit, some players will make less shit hosts than others, but they are all terrible.

When I play cs I do it with a ping of 6-10 on a belgian server and , with 0 choke and no packet loss
When timmy plays killzone shadowfall on his ps4 he will experience a ping anywhere from 100 to 400 ms, usually with massive amounts of packet loss, relying onprediction code as a bandaid hack to make it look like it's less laggy than it is
This is how you get shot around corners in games, get killed a second after you killed the other guy on your screen or kill eachother at the same time, how people will die a second after you stop shooting them etc etc.

Another bandaid is running more and more game logic on the client side (for example player movement/aiming direction is only tracked on the console and not on the host, so other people won't see what you see ) instead of on the server side , which is more smoke and mirrors making games less interactive and also a cause for things like getting shot around corners.

For example: the other player had the game logic for your movement ran on his own console, the movement prediction suggested you kept moving forward, he shot you, his console decided you died, the fact that you died is sent to the host/server , by now your updated position is sent to the server/host with that hilarious 100++ ms delay, but according to the server you are already dead at the other spot, so the server tells your console you just got shot and died, you are dead around the corner, he never even saw you move.
Not very interactive , is it?...

With proper netcode and dedicated servers, players send their inputs to the server and all of the player positioning, aiming, hit detection, grenade bouncing , damage taking, dying etc is simulated on the server and then sent back to every player who is connected, so everyone sees the same thing all at once and what happens is coherent with what everyone did, for everyone.
This is sent many times per second, and since the server will be receiving the updates from the clients (players) at slightly different times, you can have the simulation done even more times per second (128, 256 or even 1000) so that the server always uses the very most recent data that represents the latest frame the player saw and used inputs for, and not an older frame which would make it seem laggy) ,that is called tickrate/ update rate

With a decent ping this whole process of player input -> send to server-> calculate game logic and hit detection- > send back to player is done within less than one frame so it is awesome.

With p2p you're on a quarter of a second or more delay, with people not actually being in sync, and then there is a whole lot of smoke being blown up your ass (and a whole lot of control taken away) to convince you that it's not as laggy as it is...

The best way to imagine how this works in practice: is that on LAN or on a good server, you can imagine you and your friends each holding a toy car and moving it across the ground and slamming them in to eachother.
With peer2peer multiplayer noone gets to actually hold the toy cars, they drive themselves and everyone can give it a poke in the direction they want once a second. You don't actually get much input and there isn't much moment to moment interactivity as you are at the mercy of where the cars decide to go between pokes.
Oh and each player has to close their eyes for a moment at different times so they can't all see where the other player's car actually is at the same time as the other players.





This is why dedis are such a big deal, why people were rightfully outraged at mw2 releasing with no dedis on pc, why a lot of people don't like bf3 infantry combat (dice's servers aren't very good and their netcode is pathetic) , or why people hate the matchmaking in cs: go, because despite the matchmaking actually using dedicated servers ran by valve, those servers only have a tickrate of 64... so the hit detection isn't consistent.
Communities benifit from having control over the servers, so they can hire from whatever host company that provides them with a solid no packet loss route to their and their friend's homes.
With bf3 and cs go matchmaking you are at the mercy of w/e ea and valve picked.


Xbox one moving to all dedis IS a good thing (though about as praiseworthy as someone flushing after they take a shit, thanks for not stinking up the house and making the only right choice there is? something that's been standard for a long time everywhere else? )
Again , you will be at the mercy of the servers being any good, ,but even a bad dedi is better than the best p2p connection.


And the stupid PR spin of calling the servers that handle the matchmaking and rank ups (the same servers that exist for every p2p game...) for killzone SF dedicated servers is insulting, so please don't fall for it.

This needs to be quoted so people understand why REAL dedicated servers are a big deal and not something to dismiss so easily.

 

[p3tran]

It could turn out this way for games that use XB1's dedicated server offer and P2P on PS4

I think it will happen of course, I'm just curious how often it will?

dedis vs slightly better gfx detail p2p , its really a very bad position and I would bet that sony is way smarter than letting themselves fall in this trap.

they want my money to play online, they will put up.
I expect announcements rather soon.

 

[FINALBOSS]

I have now seen denial... it is a beautiful yet terrifying river.

As if you know what you're talking about.

The Killzone server system is literally the exact same thing described for Call of Duty Ghosts.

 

[aravuus]

I still don't get how what I wrote sounds like PR. It was short and to the point with no big PR type words. I looked at your post history and that is the only reason I am asking you about this.

Neither do I, pal! It's just that when I read what you said, I could instantly imagine you in a TV shop kind of scene, where two friends are cautiously talking about the Xbone. When the other one mentions the cloud or whatever, you jump from behind a corner, shout "That is another advantage of the MS cloud, it is built into the SDK!" to the camera. Followed by pointing at the camera and flashing a massive Pepsodent smile, of course.

Didn't mean to offend you, sorry about that!

e: didn't know i came out as pro-sony or anti-ms in my posts though, i try not to take sides even if i am going ps4 only for now

It wasnt crossed by the people earlier saying how much they hate MS and that they hope they leave the hardware business?

Well to be honest "sonybitch" is insulting pretty much everyone who chose PS4 over Xbone, the particular console warrior you're talking about only talked about MS, not about the fans.

 

[szaromir]

Well to be honest "sonybitch" is insulting pretty much everyone who chose PS4 over Xbone, the particular console warrior you're talking about only talked about MS, not about the fans.

It is insulting. But it's also a throwaway comment that you can report to mods and put the user on the ignore list. I think the bigger problem are the guys who have been polluting Xbone threads for the past 5 months and that have admitted here that they're actively downplaying Microsoft's announcements because they can't afford an Xbone.

they want my money to play online, they will put up.
I expect announcements rather soon.

Can Sony react quickly on this one? It took them years to bring the online experience on PS3 to a satisfying level.

 

[CadetMahoney]

Sony fanbitches am cry.

everyone! keep quoting him so he gets put on the Naughty Naughty list.

I don't think we will need comparisons. PS4 slightly better graphics. XB1 better online.

But as a comparison site they'll mention performance and not mention online performance at all so the wins will keep racking up.

 

[Captain Tuttle]

It was also strange to find out about it deep in some random article with specific confirmation via tweet. I mean something like this is a true game changer to pit your company against Sony's offerings and you cryptically drip-feed the info out to us? I would think it would be something to truly advertise aggressively.

That helped fuel the "are you sure?" attitude that people had. This should be a major bullet point, not something only discussed in the depths of GAF.

Many on here still wouldn't believe it.

 

[Leewan]

That right there, ladies and gentlemen, is where the line was crossed.

This right here ladies and gentleman is someone who has yet to learn lines don't exist on the internet.

 

[Captain Tuttle]

That right there, ladies and gentlemen, is where the line was crossed.

This line?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkzWyOaS8kU

 

[coldfoot]

This seems unlikely. I would imagine the libraries used are specific to the X1.

All the cloud libraries do is send and receive data over the network. Since Azure is not for the exclusive use of XB1, it's not too hard to have an API that mimics the XB1 built in API.

 

[coldfoot]

DF will always include anything that objectively favors the XBox platform in their analysis. I expect dedicated servers to be emphasized on every face-off from now on. Which actually is fine, because it is a real advantage.

They used to show those differences (sound, installation size) in a comparison table.

Which multiplatform game has dedicated servers for Xbone but uses P2P for PS4? I can't think of any.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Which multiplatform game has dedicated servers for Xbone but uses P2P for PS4? I can't think of any.

Is COD Ghosts supposed to have dedis for PS4?

This news literally is saying every game with an MP component will have dedis on Xbox one.

 

[pompidu]

I think people here are grossly over emphasising how important the average consumer cares about this. consumer dont care. its still nice to have it though.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

I think people here are grossly over emphasising how important the average consumer cares about this. consumer dont care. its still nice to have it though.

They will care when there's less shit to complain about while playing.

 

[coldfoot]

Is COD Ghosts supposed to have dedis for PS4?

Yes, even on PS360/PC.
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1rpgkjd

 

[pompidu]

They will care when there's less shit to complain about while playing.

You don't know the average consumer, most have no idea what a dedicated server is.

 

[Mugatu]

I think people here are grossly over emphasising how important the average consumer cares about this. consumer dont care. its still nice to have it though.

Very true - MS really needs to convert this into a general audience friendly message for it to have a big impact.

Some people always point out how out of touch with reality GAF is but if that's true then it goes both ways about positives and negatives.

 

[snoopeasystreet]

You don't know the average consumer, most have no idea what a dedicated server is.

I'd bet that almost everyone who plays/played multiplayer shooters on a semi-regular basis know what "host advantage" is (whether they can actually identify it is a different story). If you can tell that it won't exist anymore, I'm sure they'd seeing as a positive for the console.

 

[pompidu]

I'd bet that almost everyone who plays/played multiplayer shooters on a semi-regular basis know what "host advantage" is (whether they can actually identify it is a different story). If you can tell that it won't exist anymore, I'm sure they'd seeing as a positive for the console.

while this may be true, its still jumping from point a to point c. if microsoft wants to tout dedicated servers, they need to send a clear message that explains why dedicated servers are better for multiplayer gaming. and that will be tough to relay that message when most consumers dont know or care what dedicated servers are.

 

[SwiftDeath]

Very true - MS really needs to convert this into a general audience friendly message for it to have a big impact.

Some people always point out how out of touch with reality GAF is but if that's true then it goes both ways about positives and negatives.

They have to sell it correctly though

Others suggest using a lagless tagline in their marketing which is not a good way to go about it

They should just say they are offering free dedicated servers and list out the benefits no host advantage, nat issues, less lag etc.

 

[Mugatu]

They have to sell it correctly though

Others suggest using a lagless tagline in their marketing which is not a good way to go about it

They should just say they are offering free dedicated servers and list out the benefits no host advantage, nat issues, less lag etc.

I agree, and I think the quicker they do this the better, for them.

If they come out with an effective way to communicate this before Sony announces something similar (if they and up doing that) I think it could really cement the opinion that Xbox Live is the place for multiplayer (excluding PC for the moment). At that point Sony would be playing catch up.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

You don't know the average consumer, most have no idea what a dedicated server is.

You're not getting my point.

The fact that MP games will play better will mean more to them.

Yes, even on PS360/PC.
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1rpgkjd

You also didn't quote the rest of the post.

We've seen now that EVERY mp game on Xbox one is supposed to have dedis, we don't hear that about PS4 yet.

 

[szaromir]

while this may be true, its still jumping from point a to point c. if microsoft wants to tout dedicated servers, they need to send a clear message that explains why dedicated servers are better for multiplayer gaming. and that will be tough to relay that message when most consumers dont know or care what dedicated servers are.

I think that's something that can bring great benefits in the perception of the users of the product; thus generating positive word of mouth and vibe, rather than being a direct bullet point. If every aspect of the user experience is much smoother on Xbone than it was on 360 on PS3, including stable online environment across all games, that will be something that the users will notice and tell their friends about.

 

[DeltaJay]

Thought this was worth at least an honorable mention.

The Cloud is now ranked #1.

http://gamingbolt.com/xbox-ones-azure-cloud-computing-solution-ranked-1-beats-out-amazon-s3

http://www6.nasuni.com/rs/nasuni/images/2013_Nasuni_CSP_Report.pdf

 

[coldfoot]

You're not getting my point.

The fact that MP games will play better will mean more to them.



You also didn't quote the rest of the post.

We've seen now that EVERY mp game on Xbox one is supposed to have dedis, we don't hear that about PS4 yet.

Nope, free dedicated servers doesn't mean every game is going to use them.

 

[MORTALIS]

It is, Kotaku just put up an article about it.

I will go to kotaku and gamestrailers to see this new exciting news, said no main stream casual consumer ever. Need a DATELINE special, product placement on NCIS and Duck Dynasty. Only then will this reach the plebs!

 

[snoopeasystreet]

while this may be true, its still jumping from point a to point c. if microsoft wants to tout dedicated servers, they need to send a clear message that explains why dedicated servers are better for multiplayer gaming. and that will be tough to relay that message when most consumers dont know or care what dedicated servers are.

Yeah I agree that they definitely need to get their message across, and they probably won't to be honest but the idea of dedicated servers being a nebulous term in a market dominated by multiplayer shooters seems off.

 

[aravuus]

You're not getting my point.

The fact that MP games will play better will mean more to them.

But how are they gonna know anything about it? They'll just buy the cheaper console and get their Call of Duties for it. Because it's cheaper.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

But how are they gonna know anything about it? They'll just buy the cheaper console and get their Call of Duties for it. Because it's cheaper.

Word of mouth, both in game and on the street. If they own both consoles or know people with both this works too since one will clearly run better, etc.

Nope, free dedicated servers doesn't mean every game is going to use them.

I'm facepalming right now, you just can't see it.

 

[aravuus]

Word of mouth, both in game and on the street. If they own both consoles or know people with both this works too since one will clearly run better, etc.

"Dudebros" talking about games, especially the technical aspects? Not gonna happen dude. I have a bunch of friends who play NHL on both PS3 and X360. Not a word about the performance, or anything related, ever.

 

[pompidu]

You're not getting my point.

The fact that MP games will play better will mean more to them.



You also didn't quote the rest of the post.

We've seen now that EVERY mp game on Xbox one is supposed to have dedis, we don't hear that about PS4 yet.

I understood your point. saying dedicated servers dont mean squat to the average consumer. conveying that message in a clear manner will be difficult.

Yeah I agree that they definitely need to get their message across, and they probably won't to be honest but the idea of dedicated servers being a nebulous term in a market dominated by multiplayer shooters seems off.

for the pc market it is well known but ask 12 year old what dedicated servers mean, or better yet try to ask their parents. its better for anyone but I dont see Microsoft conveying that message very well.

 

[coldfoot]

I'm facepalming right now, you just can't see it.

If the cost of free XB1 + PS4 + PC on Azure is more than the cost of hosting all three on the servers that a developer already bought and paid for, they're going to use the second option. They're not going to write different netcode for different platforms.

 

[nib95]

If the cost of free XB1 + PS4 + PC on Azure is more than the cost of hosting all three on the servers that a developer already bought and paid for, they're going to use the second option. They're not going to write different netcode for different platforms.

That is correct. Which is likely why Destiny, BF4, Division etc are all using the Publishers own dedicated servers.

 

[joeblow]

I have two questions for anyone who knows....

1) Are all the server features mentioned in the articles free to publishers for the life of the console, or only for an introductory (or extended) period of time after which payments must be made to MS keep the games online?

The former scenario would be great if only because it suggests that no online game on the system would ever get its plug pulled.

2) Are Azure services, MS's server infrastructure, offered in a tiered format, or are all clients receving the same level of service? If tiered, what tier do X1 developers get for free, and do they have the option to pay for an upgrade if needed?

Obviously the best thing is if all clients get equal, excellent service.

 

[szaromir]

That is correct. Which is likely why Destiny, BF4, Division etc are all using the Publishers own dedicated servers.

The biggest companies want to control every aspect of their products, which is also why on the PC side they don't bother with Steamworks and use their own clients like Origin, Uplay or Battle.NET. But most games aren't done by the biggest companies and they do utilize Steamworks; similarly most games on Xbone will utilize Microsoft's network solutions.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

If the cost of free XB1 + PS4 + PC on Azure is more than the cost of hosting all three on the servers that a developer already bought and paid for, they're going to use the second option. They're not going to write different netcode for different platforms.

That has absolutely NOTHING to do with games that would otherwise be P2P.

 

[TechnicPuppet]

Neither do I, pal! It's just that when I read what you said, I could instantly imagine you in a TV shop kind of scene, where two friends are cautiously talking about the Xbone. When the other one mentions the cloud or whatever, you jump from behind a corner, shout "That is another advantage of the MS cloud, it is built into the SDK!" to the camera. Followed by pointing at the camera and flashing a massive Pepsodent smile, of course.

Didn't mean to offend you, sorry about that!

e: didn't know i came out as pro-sony or anti-ms in my posts though, i try not to take sides even if i am going ps4 only for now



Well to be honest "sonybitch" is insulting pretty much everyone who chose PS4 over Xbone, the particular console warrior you're talking about only talked about MS, not about the fans.

You don't come out as biased in your post history, that's why I thought I would ask. If I thought you were just a console warrior I would have left it.

Anyways no big deal.

 

[coldfoot]

That has absolutely NOTHING to do with games that would otherwise be P2P.

P2P in one platform vs. dedicated servers in others requires different netcode and is unlikely to happen in multiplatform console development.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

P2P in one platform vs. dedicated servers in others requires different netcode and is unlikely to happen in multiplatform console development.

You mean like when COD had dedis on PC but not on consoles?

"unlikely" doesn't mean that's how it is.

 

[CadetMahoney]

So which are the first multiplayer games to appear on both PS4 and bone so that we have a countdown to lag-comparisons between the two - any this year?

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

As if you know what you're talking about.

The Killzone server system is literally the exact same thing described for Call of Duty Ghosts.

What? Friend, when did I say anything about what ghosts was or wasn't? If you read the bolded section of the quote I was replying to, you would see that I was responding to what he said about dedicated servers not being a big deal.

They are a very big deal as seen here,

All traffic is always routed through a proxy for everything you do.
Every bit of information you send over the internet is passed on through a whole bunch of different proxies as it is handed on from isp to isp , to get to you.

None of the game logic is done on an outside server, it's not exactly like p2p, it is p2p
One player hosts the game logic on his ps4 , acting as listen server (those two words are like a nail on a chalkboard for any gamer who'se been around multiplayer gaming on pc for long enough) , everything is sent to him, calculated on his console.

A regular consumer does not have the connection to deal with this traffic.. they will have too much packet loss (hilariously much if they are on wifi) and too much bandwidth choke to deal with it all, and the simulation is only done at the framerate the game is running on.

A good dedicated server will run the hit detection and other game logic at anywhere between 128 to 1000 times per second and equally importantly will not have routing issues like packet loss or bandwidth choke (bandwidth can't keep up so packets are put in a queue and arrive delayed)

If there are routing issues to a certain server, you and your friends quit it and pick one that works normally, and if one player has a bad connection only that player suffers, noone else does.


p2p multiplayer is always shit, some players will make less shit hosts than others, but they are all terrible.

When I play cs I do it with a ping of 6-10 on a belgian server and , with 0 choke and no packet loss
When timmy plays killzone shadowfall on his ps4 he will experience a ping anywhere from 100 to 400 ms, usually with massive amounts of packet loss, relying onprediction code as a bandaid hack to make it look like it's less laggy than it is
This is how you get shot around corners in games, get killed a second after you killed the other guy on your screen or kill eachother at the same time, how people will die a second after you stop shooting them etc etc.

Another bandaid is running more and more game logic on the client side (for example player movement/aiming direction is only tracked on the console and not on the host, so other people won't see what you see ) instead of on the server side , which is more smoke and mirrors making games less interactive and also a cause for things like getting shot around corners.

For example: the other player had the game logic for your movement ran on his own console, the movement prediction suggested you kept moving forward, he shot you, his console decided you died, the fact that you died is sent to the host/server , by now your updated position is sent to the server/host with that hilarious 100++ ms delay, but according to the server you are already dead at the other spot, so the server tells your console you just got shot and died, you are dead around the corner, he never even saw you move.
Not very interactive , is it?...

With proper netcode and dedicated servers, players send their inputs to the server and all of the player positioning, aiming, hit detection, grenade bouncing , damage taking, dying etc is simulated on the server and then sent back to every player who is connected, so everyone sees the same thing all at once and what happens is coherent with what everyone did, for everyone.
This is sent many times per second, and since the server will be receiving the updates from the clients (players) at slightly different times, you can have the simulation done even more times per second (128, 256 or even 1000) so that the server always uses the very most recent data that represents the latest frame the player saw and used inputs for, and not an older frame which would make it seem laggy) ,that is called tickrate/ update rate

With a decent ping this whole process of player input -> send to server-> calculate game logic and hit detection- > send back to player is done within less than one frame so it is awesome.

With p2p you're on a quarter of a second or more delay, with people not actually being in sync, and then there is a whole lot of smoke being blown up your ass (and a whole lot of control taken away) to convince you that it's not as laggy as it is...

The best way to imagine how this works in practice: is that on LAN or on a good server, you can imagine you and your friends each holding a toy car and moving it across the ground and slamming them in to eachother.
With peer2peer multiplayer noone gets to actually hold the toy cars, they drive themselves and everyone can give it a poke in the direction they want once a second. You don't actually get much input and there isn't much moment to moment interactivity as you are at the mercy of where the cars decide to go between pokes.
Oh and each player has to close their eyes for a moment at different times so they can't all see where the other player's car actually is at the same time as the other players.





This is why dedis are such a big deal, why people were rightfully outraged at mw2 releasing with no dedis on pc, why a lot of people don't like bf3 infantry combat (dice's servers aren't very good and their netcode is pathetic) , or why people hate the matchmaking in cs: go, because despite the matchmaking actually using dedicated servers ran by valve, those servers only have a tickrate of 64... so the hit detection isn't consistent.
Communities benifit from having control over the servers, so they can hire from whatever host company that provides them with a solid no packet loss route to their and their friend's homes.
With bf3 and cs go matchmaking you are at the mercy of w/e ea and valve picked.


Xbox one moving to all dedis IS a good thing (though about as praiseworthy as someone flushing after they take a shit, thanks for not stinking up the house and making the only right choice there is? something that's been standard for a long time everywhere else? )
Again , you will be at the mercy of the servers being any good, ,but even a bad dedi is better than the best p2p connection.


And the stupid PR spin of calling the servers that handle the matchmaking and rank ups (the same servers that exist for every p2p game...) for killzone SF dedicated servers is insulting, so please don't fall for it.

Looks like I'm not the one who doesn't know what he's talking about.