Gamesindustry: Xbox Live Compute (Cloud Servers) offered free to devs

BigDug13

Member
I was just trying to ask a question here since Titanfall developers did have to pay for dedicated servers. I'm not taking anything Microsoft says nowadays at face value.

It was also strange to find out about it deep in some random article with specific confirmation via tweet. I mean something like this is a true game changer to pit your company against Sony's offerings and you cryptically drip-feed the info out to us? I would think it would be something to truly advertise aggressively.

That helped fuel the "are you sure?" attitude that people had. This should be a major bullet point, not something only discussed in the depths of GAF.
 

jns

Member
Progression of this thread:

"We're not talking about dedicated servers! It's this 'cloud compute' thing instead. There's NO FREAKIN' WAY that they are avail...'
"Ok, I guess we are, but they're not free!!"
"Ok, but are we sure they are for every dev?"
"Ok, but are we *really* sure, cuz some random guy said maybe not"
"Ok, but if we're sure (and that's a biiiiiig 'if'), dedicated servers aren't really all that great"
"Ok, but they'll just be available on PS4"
"Ok, maybe not right away"
"Ok, but it won't be *that* long"
"Ok, but dedicated servers aren't really that great anyway"

and so on... *sigh*


lol, the bone sure broke some Sony hearts today. Not to fear though, still plenty of time till release and I'm sure some folks will try and spin it back the other way.
 
lol, the bone sure broke some Sony hearts today. Not to fear though, still plenty of time till release and I'm sure some folks will try and spin it back the other way.

I have no problem admitting that this news made me a bit jealous, but that's par for course when choosing one over another. There's always something you miss out, be it exclusives or specific console features.

I,wouldn't dwell on it too much though.
 

jns

Member
I have no problem admitting that this news made me a bit jealous, but that's par for course when choosing one over another. There's always something you miss out, be it exclusives or specific console features.

I,wouldn't dwell on it too much though.

I'm sure it sucks for the folks who tie their allegiance to only a single company, but I'm a games whore and will happily indulge in the best of all worlds ;)
 
How exactly is this a game changer or a reason to purchase an Xbox One?

Ya know, this reminds me a whole lot of the Call Of Duty Ghost threads lol.

"ZOMG Ghost on Xbox One with dedicated servers... Game changer brah!!!"

"Oh man, Sony is probably still trying to work out some deal. Bet they don't get dedicated servers for at least a few months brah"

"Yeah Microsoft caught Sony off guard, they ain't got no cloud brah"

"Nail in the Sony coffin brah"

And what happened???

Um dedicated servers will be used for Call Of Duty Ghost on all platforms, but we can't name the platforms... just all of them

Not trying to start any butt hurt around here, but honestly sometimes people need to take a step back and think before they type.

How many games out now, honestly, have dedicated servers for one console and not the other (PC not included)??? Come on now people, wise up
 

BigDug13

Member
I'm sure it sucks for the folks who tie their allegiance to only a single company, but I'm a games whore and will happily indulge in the best of all worlds ;)

I don't see how anyone has the time to play all the best games from all platforms. And $1200 plus $110 per year in sub fees is a large sum to plunk down on the 3 consoles of the generation just to get started. Not including the $1k-ish PC hardware costs for that platform.

From a financial and a time management perspective, I just can't do it.
 

madmackem

Member
Right i was in page one but can someone sum it up for me, has it been confirmed 100% that we are getting dedis for every game now?.
 
I'm sure it sucks for the folks who tie their allegiance to only a single company, but I'm a games whore and will happily indulge in the best of all worlds ;)

Haha, not everyone can afford multiple consoles at launch.

PS4 first, then WiiU... Xbox One once there's at least 10 must-have exclusives. ( 1 for now, Crimson Dragon)

I kinda love how MS makes it so easy for me though. The other 2 exclusives that get my jimmies rustled are Titanfall and Project Spark... available on the PC. :)

Also helps that Xbox Live, for who knows what reason, sucks badly here, so there was never that superior online experience I keep hearing from you all at the west.
 

jns

Member
I don't see how anyone has the time to play all the best games from all platforms. And $1200 plus $110 per year in sub fees is a large sum to plunk down on the 3 consoles of the generation just to get started. Not including the $1k-ish PC hardware costs for that platform.

From a financial and a time management perspective, I just can't do it.

So just because you personally can't do it, you don't see how anyone else can? C'mon man, you need a better imagination!

As an Aussie, I'm getting off cheap this gen. PS3 was $1000 straight up last time around! Actually, I think even the bone is cheaper than the 360 was but I can't really remember tbh.
 

WJD

Member
Right i was in page one but can someone sum it up for me, has it been confirmed 100% that we are getting dedis for every game now?.

Confirmed that any dev working on a game for the Xbox One has the option of a free dedicated server if they want it.
 
Right i was in page one but can someone sum it up for me, has it been confirmed 100% that we are getting dedis for every game now?.

Nope, it's available for developers, but since it's only free for Xb1...

Most games are releasing across too many platforms that don't enjoy that free advantage. (360,pc, PS3, ps4)
 

BigDug13

Member
So just because you personally can't do it, you don't see how anyone else can? C'mon man, you need a better imagination!

As an Aussie, I'm getting off cheap this gen. PS3 was $1000 straight up last time around! Actually, I think even the bone is cheaper than the 360 was but I can't really remember tbh.

Well you seemed to be insinuating that anyone who ties their allegiance to a single company is simply someone who doesn't care about games as much as you. There are other factors involved is all I'm saying.
 
Great to hear a positive xbone story for once.

I hope the ps4 follows suite but if they don't I guess the Ps4 could render a pretty nice migrating host screen with that power under the hood
 
Progression of this thread:

"We're not talking about dedicated servers! It's this 'cloud compute' thing instead. There's NO FREAKIN' WAY that they are avail...'
"Ok, I guess we are, but they're not free!!"
"Ok, but are we sure they are for every dev?"
"Ok, but are we *really* sure, cuz some random guy said maybe not"
"Ok, but if we're sure (and that's a biiiiiig 'if'), dedicated servers aren't really all that great"
"Ok, but they'll just be available on PS4"
"Ok, maybe not right away"
"Ok, but it won't be *that* long"
"Ok, but dedicated servers aren't really that great anyway"

and so on... *sigh*

Ha, so true. I'm surprised no one has claimed they're only offering free dedicated servers so they can sell peoples data to the NSA or target more ads at them.
 

aravuus

Member
How exactly is this a game changer or a reason to purchase an Xbox One?

If you play multiplayer games a lot and what they're promising is true, of course it's a gamechanger for some people. Personally I'd much rather take almost lag-free matches with slightly worse graphics.

Haha, not everyone can afford multiple consoles at launch.

PS4 first, then WiiU... Xbox One once there's at least 10 must-have exclusives. ( 1 for now, Crimson Dragon)

I kinda love how MS makes it so easy for me though. The other 2 exclusives that get my jimmies rustled are Titanfall and Project Spark... available on the PC. :)

Also helps that Xbox Live, for who knows what reason, sucks badly here, so there was never that superior online experience I keep hearing from you all at the west.

Hah, yeah. I'd love to get both consoles again as soon as possible, but there's no justifying a purchase as expensive as Xbone yet.
 

madmackem

Member
Confirmed that any dev working on a game for the Xbox One has the option of a free dedicated server if they want it.

An option theyd be silly not to take then, its a good step forward for us gamers and any game that bails on the free servers must be bonkers.
 

szaromir

Banned
I have no problem admitting that this news made me a bit jealous, but that's par for course when choosing one over another. There's always something you miss out, be it exclusives or specific console features.

I,wouldn't dwell on it too much though.
Just because someone is jealous doesn't mean he should go into instant denial mode, which is what far too many people did in this thread.
 
If you play multiplayer games a lot and what they're promising is true, of course it's a gamechanger for some people. Personally I'd much rather take almost lag-free matches with slightly worse graphics.

So your assuming that multiplatform games (games found on both PS4 and Xbox One) will have dedicated servers on One console and not the other? Honest question
 

jns

Member
Well you seemed to be insinuating that anyone who ties their allegiance to a single company is simply someone who doesn't care about games as much as you. There are other factors involved is all I'm saying.

I'm not saying any such thing, mate. I'm a fan of games, period. I know there are loads of people on GAF who are fans of brands more than games and my comment was aimed at them. I wasn't attempting to call you to task or have a dig. Your purchasing habits are your own business and I'm not interested in trying to (in)validate what you spend your cash on.

Sorry if I came off as an arse.
 
An option theyd be silly not to take then, its a good step forward for us gamers and any game that bails on the free servers must be bonkers.

If they don't want to fork the extra cash for dedicated servers for the Ps4 version, or write 2 different netcode for their games, then they may actually not take it.
 

szaromir

Banned
"Devs won't take advantage of dedicated servers" is the new "devs won't take advantage of PS4's extra GPU capabilities".
 

aravuus

Member
So your assuming that multiplatform games (games found on both PS4 and Xbox One) will have dedicated servers on One console and not the other? Honest question

Nah, I talked about this briefly a couple of pages back. Right now, Xbone definitely looks like the better console of choice for multiplayer games, but I expect that most PS4 games start getting dedicated servers soon too.
 
Progression of this thread:

"We're not talking about dedicated servers! It's this 'cloud compute' thing instead. There's NO FREAKIN' WAY that they are avail...'
"Ok, I guess we are, but they're not free!!"
"Ok, but are we sure they are for every dev?"
"Ok, but are we *really* sure, cuz some random guy said maybe not"
"Ok, but if we're sure (and that's a biiiiiig 'if'), dedicated servers aren't really all that great"
"Ok, but they'll just be available on PS4"
"Ok, maybe not right away"
"Ok, but it won't be *that* long"
"Ok, but dedicated servers aren't really that great anyway"

and so on... *sigh*
heh, the sad truth..
 
"Devs won't take advantage of dedicated servers" is the new "devs won't take advantage of PS4's extra GPU capabilities".

It's a possibility that can't be denied. For both consoles.

Unless I'm mistaken, didn't we have similar issues in current gen regarding devs not wanting to have different netcode for their multiplayer components? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Mind you, I'd much rather devs choose to fork the cash for dedicated servers for their Ps4 versions too. Win-win-win for everyone.
 

madmackem

Member
If they don't want to fork the extra cash for dedicated servers for the Ps4 version, or write 2 different netcode for their games, then they may actually not take it.

I doubt it would be too much hassel, id expect it would be built right into the tools ms provide, hopefully.
 
Unless maybe Respawn had gotten the prices for PC azure access and Xbox One Access mixed up. Because if I remember them correctly they are also using Azure for the PC Version. So maybe when they were saying cost they were meaning PC and any other ports they may do.

I doubt it - my guess here is that there's a free tier for save files and some oter minor user generated data, a few spare cores and the like - then a paid tier if you want low latency and guaranteed service or extra proformance
 
How exactly is this a game changer or a reason to purchase an Xbox One?

Ya know, this reminds me a whole lot of the Call Of Duty Ghost threads lol.

"ZOMG Ghost on Xbox One with dedicated servers... Game changer brah!!!"

"Oh man, Sony is probably still trying to work out some deal. Bet they don't get dedicated servers for at least a few months brah"

"Yeah Microsoft caught Sony off guard, they ain't got no cloud brah"

"Nail in the Sony coffin brah"

And what happened???

Um dedicated servers will be used for Call Of Duty Ghost on all platforms, but we can't name the platforms... just all of them

Not trying to start any butt hurt around here, but honestly sometimes people need to take a step back and think before they type.

How many games out now, honestly, have dedicated servers for one console and not the other (PC not included)??? Come on now people, wise up
Especially since we all know what Microsoft tried to do with the console gaming world back nearly half a year ago was appalling. What Microsoft did there was so terrible that it broke my trust for the company and I swore to never buy a product from them again unless they significantly changed the way they treated their customers (especially the gaming world). It will take a lot for me to consider buying an Xbox One this gen. Dedicated servers being free for all games that use it is a good start, but at best, it has changed my thoughts on the Xbox One from "never getting it" to "need to see more news like this before I consider buying". Especially if the PlayStation 4 were to also get dedicated servers for all games as well.
 

coolasj19

Why are you reading my tag instead of the title of my post?
Progression of this thread:

"We're not talking about dedicated servers! It's this 'cloud compute' thing instead. There's NO FREAKIN' WAY that they are avail...'
"Ok, I guess we are, but they're not free!!"
"Ok, but are we sure they are for every dev?"
"Ok, but are we *really* sure, cuz some random guy said maybe not"
"Ok, but if we're sure (and that's a biiiiiig 'if'), dedicated servers aren't really all that great"
"Ok, but they'll just be available on PS4"
"Ok, maybe not right away"
"Ok, but it won't be *that* long"
"Ok, but dedicated servers aren't really that great anyway"

and so on... *sigh*

Nice. Apparently this is accurate. Now I don't have to read the thread. Well... I'll read it anyway. This is something that should be shouted from the heavens. It's the only inherently positive thing that MS could give us right now. Unless I'm oversimplifying it "All games have free dedicated servers". Unless, that's not what's being said?
 

Yager

Banned
Progression of this thread:

"We're not talking about dedicated servers! It's this 'cloud compute' thing instead. There's NO FREAKIN' WAY that they are avail...'
"Ok, I guess we are, but they're not free!!"
"Ok, but are we sure they are for every dev?"
"Ok, but are we *really* sure, cuz some random guy said maybe not"
"Ok, but if we're sure (and that's a biiiiiig 'if'), dedicated servers aren't really all that great"
"Ok, but they'll just be available on PS4"
"Ok, maybe not right away"
"Ok, but it won't be *that* long"
"Ok, but dedicated servers aren't really that great anyway"

and so on... *sigh*

Pretty much. This is really good news and a very strong reason (at least for me) for getting an Xbone.
 

amardilo

Member
How exactly is this a game changer or a reason to purchase an Xbox One?

It might not be a major reason but if MS is footing the bill on the server costs it could mean that the dedicated servers stay up for longer as the developer/publisher doesn't have to take into account the cost of the server (they probably still need to hire staff to manage/maintain the software running on the servers though).

My main worry with games that only use dedicated servers (and have no fall back) is that if the games popularity dips to a level in that the publisher/developer no longer sees it as worthwhile to maintain the cost of running the servers the multiplayer could be shut down. With the servers being free that part of the cost of maintaining a game is reduced slightly.

The other thing would be that if a single player game uses cloud computing in some way they don't have to worry about long term server costs either.
 
This is huge. Sony better be preparing something similar or they will be left behind in the long term in the MP side of things... again...
 
Nice. Apparently this is accurate. Now I don't have to read the thread. Well... I'll read it anyway. This is something that should be shouted from the heavens. It's the only inherently positive thing that MS could give us right now. Unless I'm oversimplifying it "All games have free dedicated servers". Unless, that's not what's being said?

It's a bit oversimplified.

What's being said is that "devs publishing Xbox One games have the option of utilising free dedicated server."

However, for launch, majority of games are released across multiple platforms, current gen and next. So for now, this seems like an underutilised feature, since there's too many platforms where the servers aren't free.
 

coolasj19

Why are you reading my tag instead of the title of my post?
It's a bit oversimplified.

What's being said is that "devs publishing Xbox One games have the option of utilising free dedicated server."

However, for launch, majority of games are released across multiple platforms, current gen and next. So for now, this seems like an underutilised feature, since there's too many platforms where the servers aren't free.

So I guess they have a sort of "Server Budget"? A certain amount of resources given to them by Microsoft. I'm just trying to boil this down into as few sentences and words as possible. And that developers might be reluctant to use this since there isn't parity with the other systems and doing one source of servers might be easier.

If, they were used for just hosting, would this kill servers going offline? That's the thing that still gets me to this day.
 
Nice. Apparently this is accurate. Now I don't have to read the thread. Well... I'll read it anyway. This is something that should be shouted from the heavens. It's the only inherently positive thing that MS could give us right now. Unless I'm oversimplifying it "All games have free dedicated servers". Unless, that's not what's being said?

They said "all devs have access to free dedicated servers". Could this be an advantage for the Xbox One? Yes. But only if there are titles which use dedicated servers on Xbox One and not on PS4. We don't know of any such games yet, and I think it's unlikely that this will happen because of the implications for devs (they need to develop and maintain two different network solutions which means twice as much costs, effort and problems) - it is just easier to rent additional servers for the PS4 version and call it a day. And reality seems to back this up, because we know that Call of Duty: Ghosts and Battlefield 4 will have dedicated servers on PS4.

Personally I think it's a good development, because it means that all nextgen consoles will have dedicated servers for all major titles. But it's not a "game changer" when there will also be servers on PS4 for games like Battlefield / CoD (at release - not "later" like SeaOfMadness fantasizes about).

It might not be a major reason but if MS is footing the bill on the server costs it could mean that the dedicated servers stay up for longer as the developer/publisher doesn't have to take into account the cost of the server (they probably still need to hire staff to manage/maintain the software running on the servers though).

My main worry with games that only use dedicated servers (and have no fall back) is that if the games popularity dips to a level in that the publisher/developer no longer sees it as worthwhile to maintain the cost of running the servers the multiplayer could be shut down. With the servers being free that part of the cost of maintaining a game is reduced slightly.

The other thing would be that if a single player game uses cloud computing in some way they don't have to worry about long term server costs either.

Servers often get shutdown because publishers want to push their new titles. This won't change.
 

p3tran

Banned
i quote the post below because it is very well written and informative.
hopefully if everybody reads it, progressively there will be less yelling at the microphones and more comprehension.


All traffic is always routed through a proxy for everything you do.
Every bit of information you send over the internet is passed on through a whole bunch of different proxies as it is handed on from isp to isp , to get to you.

None of the game logic is done on an outside server, it's not exactly like p2p, it is p2p
One player hosts the game logic on his ps4 , acting as listen server (those two words are like a nail on a chalkboard for any gamer who'se been around multiplayer gaming on pc for long enough) , everything is sent to him, calculated on his console.

A regular consumer does not have the connection to deal with this traffic.. they will have too much packet loss (hilariously much if they are on wifi) and too much bandwidth choke to deal with it all, and the simulation is only done at the framerate the game is running on.

A good dedicated server will run the hit detection and other game logic at anywhere between 128 to 1000 times per second and equally importantly will not have routing issues like packet loss or bandwidth choke (bandwidth can't keep up so packets are put in a queue and arrive delayed)

If there are routing issues to a certain server, you and your friends quit it and pick one that works normally, and if one player has a bad connection only that player suffers, noone else does.


p2p multiplayer is always shit, some players will make less shit hosts than others, but they are all terrible.

When I play cs I do it with a ping of 6-10 on a belgian server and , with 0 choke and no packet loss
When timmy plays killzone shadowfall on his ps4 he will experience a ping anywhere from 100 to 400 ms, usually with massive amounts of packet loss, relying onprediction code as a bandaid hack to make it look like it's less laggy than it is
This is how you get shot around corners in games, get killed a second after you killed the other guy on your screen or kill eachother at the same time, how people will die a second after you stop shooting them etc etc.

Another bandaid is running more and more game logic on the client side (for example player movement/aiming direction is only tracked on the console and not on the host, so other people won't see what you see ) instead of on the server side , which is more smoke and mirrors making games less interactive and also a cause for things like getting shot around corners.

For example: the other player had the game logic for your movement ran on his own console, the movement prediction suggested you kept moving forward, he shot you, his console decided you died, the fact that you died is sent to the host/server , by now your updated position is sent to the server/host with that hilarious 100++ ms delay, but according to the server you are already dead at the other spot, so the server tells your console you just got shot and died, you are dead around the corner, he never even saw you move.
Not very interactive , is it?...

With proper netcode and dedicated servers, players send their inputs to the server and all of the player positioning, aiming, hit detection, grenade bouncing , damage taking, dying etc is simulated on the server and then sent back to every player who is connected, so everyone sees the same thing all at once and what happens is coherent with what everyone did, for everyone.
This is sent many times per second, and since the server will be receiving the updates from the clients (players) at slightly different times, you can have the simulation done even more times per second (128, 256 or even 1000) so that the server always uses the very most recent data that represents the latest frame the player saw and used inputs for, and not an older frame which would make it seem laggy) ,that is called tickrate/ update rate

With a decent ping this whole process of player input -> send to server-> calculate game logic and hit detection- > send back to player is done within less than one frame so it is awesome.

With p2p you're on a quarter of a second or more delay, with people not actually being in sync, and then there is a whole lot of smoke being blown up your ass (and a whole lot of control taken away) to convince you that it's not as laggy as it is...

The best way to imagine how this works in practice: is that on LAN or on a good server, you can imagine you and your friends each holding a toy car and moving it across the ground and slamming them in to eachother.
With peer2peer multiplayer noone gets to actually hold the toy cars, they drive themselves and everyone can give it a poke in the direction they want once a second. You don't actually get much input and there isn't much moment to moment interactivity as you are at the mercy of where the cars decide to go between pokes.
Oh and each player has to close their eyes for a moment at different times so they can't all see where the other player's car actually is at the same time as the other players.





This is why dedis are such a big deal, why people were rightfully outraged at mw2 releasing with no dedis on pc, why a lot of people don't like bf3 infantry combat (dice's servers aren't very good and their netcode is pathetic) , or why people hate the matchmaking in cs: go, because despite the matchmaking actually using dedicated servers ran by valve, those servers only have a tickrate of 64... so the hit detection isn't consistent.
Communities benifit from having control over the servers, so they can hire from whatever host company that provides them with a solid no packet loss route to their and their friend's homes.
With bf3 and cs go matchmaking you are at the mercy of w/e ea and valve picked.


Xbox one moving to all dedis IS a good thing (though about as praiseworthy as someone flushing after they take a shit, thanks for not stinking up the house and making the only right choice there is? something that's been standard for a long time everywhere else? )
Again , you will be at the mercy of the servers being any good, ,but even a bad dedi is better than the best p2p connection.


And the stupid PR spin of calling the servers that handle the matchmaking and rank ups (the same servers that exist for every p2p game...) for killzone SF dedicated servers is insulting, so please don't fall for it.



now, HOPEFULLY microsoft's recent decision to offer free dedis to all games
will be held to what it really means and will not be borked or a cheap marketing trick.

lets not forget that some of us are paying xbox live for over 10(TEN!) years, and dedis where always the thing we expected to compensate for the fees.

other than that, and regarding the more general console space, I think that this *could* easily be a gamechanger for what xbone will offer, and also I think this is the real first time that ms did something that will force sony to respond in some way, especially since they aspire to start getting paid for online gaming.
 

von zipp

Member
This is great news!
...and this is a wonderful thread! The mental gymnastics on display to downplay dedicated servers for multiplayer in glorious.
 
i quote the post below because it is very well written and informative.
hopefully if everybody reads it, progressively there will be less yelling at the microphones and more comprehension.

Unfortunately less informed people who don't under virtualization and load balancing will still highlight the negative aspects.

And for those claiming all third party games will have dedicated servers on both platforms for 'parity' are reaching.
 

Omni

Member
Progression of this thread:

"We're not talking about dedicated servers! It's this 'cloud compute' thing instead. There's NO FREAKIN' WAY that they are avail...'
"Ok, I guess we are, but they're not free!!"
"Ok, but are we sure they are for every dev?"
"Ok, but are we *really* sure, cuz some random guy said maybe not"
"Ok, but if we're sure (and that's a biiiiiig 'if'), dedicated servers aren't really all that great"
"Ok, but they'll just be available on PS4"
"Ok, maybe not right away"
"Ok, but it won't be *that* long"
"Ok, but dedicated servers aren't really that great anyway"

and so on... *sigh*
Ha, as soon as I saw this thread had 20 pages of replies I knew it had turned to shit. Good to see I'm not mistaken.

*leaves*
 
Progression of this thread:

"We're not talking about dedicated servers! It's this 'cloud compute' thing instead. There's NO FREAKIN' WAY that they are avail...'
"Ok, I guess we are, but they're not free!!"
"Ok, but are we sure they are for every dev?"
"Ok, but are we *really* sure, cuz some random guy said maybe not"
"Ok, but if we're sure (and that's a biiiiiig 'if'), dedicated servers aren't really all that great"
"Ok, but they'll just be available on PS4"
"Ok, maybe not right away"
"Ok, but it won't be *that* long"
"Ok, but dedicated servers aren't really that great anyway"

and so on... *sigh*

The worst part is that it's the same group of people of who are blatantly spreading misinformation in just about every single XB1 thread. If you read the first three pages, a slew of posters claim that the MS rep in the article never mentions dedicated servers when he clearly does.

Feels like mods are taking a backseat until launch. after which the crazies should be easier to deal with.
 

Raist

Banned
i quote the post below because it is very well written and informative.
hopefully if everybody reads it, progressively there will be less yelling at the microphones and more comprehension.

That's a good post overall, but it makes some weird assumptions. Even dedicated servers are affected by some issues described here, and unless you expect to be able to pick servers based on ping every time (some games did this gen, eg Warhawk), ping will always be an issue, unless you are basically forced to play on the server with the lowest ping (which means that you'll always be playing with people in your area).

Dedicated servers are also always impacted by traffic because they have to deal with a shit load more than what happens with p2p. It's not just one game it's dozens. That's why private betas are always a lot smoother than public ones, let alone when the game is released.

That being said, dedicated servers do smooth things out and you get rid of issues like hosts with unstable connection or suddenly downloading shit in the background. Host switch is still a poor fix because it often leads to disconnects.

As for KZ, I remember the thread about "dedicated servers" (I was like, wut? that's not really dedicated) but it does seem that they're using some kind of "hybrid" solution so we'll see how it goes. KZ2 was overall a fairly OK experience, but there were always these times where you'd end up with a shit host and some games turned into lagfests or would kick everyone out after 5mins. That was certainly far from the norm though.
 
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