Support NeoGAF

[cireza]

Better performance for existing games tends to be good enough for me.

Wasn't this already the exact same argument for buying a PS5 though ?

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Wasn't this already the exact same argument for buying a PS5 though ?

Shocker

 

[Kokoloko85]

Yes they were. LBP3 was on PS3, Left Behind was on PS3, Tearaway was a port from an old Vita game.

OK, miswrote those. Even with those games not on the list, its still no competition in games released

 

[Dick Jones]

We only need to tap into 1% of the chinese market.

God bless the Artisan (I think) for that nugget of gold.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Im comparing for the time.
Spiderman Miles Morales and Horizon 2 were cross gen, like GT7 and God of War Ragnarok. The games I listed were only released on PS4….not cross gen or PC.
Those games were exclusive to PS4. There wasnt even an idea that PS games would go to PC. Returnal came to PC in less than 2 years.


Im just stating true exclusives to a platform

How does a game being exclusive or not or cross platform or not alter the time and resources used to develop it?

The argument is a weak one that Sony isn't producing as much but in reality they are.

The dynamics of game development have drastically shifted, which is why we saw more cross platform and why we see PC releases.

Games are far more scalable now. If the PS4 had an SSD even more games would be cross platform.

You used to be able to play games on PC for a decade+ and that'll be the same of PlayStation moving forward. Somehow people think that's a bad thing.

 

[GHG]

Wasn't this already the exact same argument for buying a PS5 though ?

Yes. And it will be for the PS6 as well.

Problem?

 

[Physiognomonics]

When you consider the PS5 late stage and early PS6, it's largely fine, but that's also why they want live service franchises.

Releasing 2-3 games a year between 2026 and 2028 is fine, in fact it is good and exactly what they did in the final years of the PS4.

God of War and Spider-Man both came out in 2018. Ghost of Tsushima and TLOU2 both came out in 2020. 2019 saw both Day's Gone and Death Stranding.

But that's not the full reality. In the same year PS4 already had Bloodborne out. What did they release that would make PS5 a very compelling product? Seems to me if you have a powerful PC you can or will be able to play all Sony exclusives you want. If Bloodborne remake was available exclusively on PS5, I think they would not lag behind PS4 sales.

Besides we are talking about 2 games / year on PS4, well in 2023 Sony released one noteworthy game, Spider-man 2 and made plenty of GAAS promises, but who would commit to Sony ecosystem on the promise on GAAS titles that will be available day one on PC?

Again, now we see the result of their multiplatform strategy. PS5 is lagging behind PS4 by 2.3 million units. Of course I don't doubt Sony execs (the ones who pushed the PC / GAAS strategy) are going to spin this . But the causes are obvious an we see this in forums and social medias, plenty of smart people invest into the PC / Steam ecosystem instead of Playstation. This is what I'd advise people to do right now. Cheaper games, free online gaming and soon only one year of waiting to play what, 1 game / year exclusive.

Finally judging on Spider-man 2, it seems Sony are starting to push the woke agenda in their games, which is another big mistake. Devs should really wonder why Japanese games are seeing so much success with western gamers lately.

 

[cireza]

Shocker

It was supposed to be the belief in generations at first

 

[rhodesianshepard]

When you consider the PS5 late stage and early PS6, it's largely fine, but that's also why they want live service franchises.

Releasing 2-3 games a year between 2026 and 2028 is fine, in fact it is good and exactly what they did in the final years of the PS4.

God of War and Spider-Man both came out in 2018. Ghost of Tsushima and TLOU2 both came out in 2020. 2019 saw both Day's Gone and Death Stranding.

I don't think it is good when you have multiple years where Sony released 0 or 1 titles. 2 per year average should be the goal. Good chance Sony could release 4 major titles in either 2026 or 2027.

To be fair, GTA 6 should sell a shitload of consoles in 2025. That releasing alongside the pro should help the 1st party drought

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

It was supposed to be the belief in new generations at first

The games not playing like trash is new geny for me

 

[kyussman]

Too much DEI in their AAA.....it's not good for your business,just look at Disney.

 

[Mister Wolf]

It was supposed to be the belief in generations at first

I haven't forgot.

 

[GHG]

It was supposed to be the belief in generations at first

New generations means better hardware and better performance.

Sorry your choice of platform failed to deliver on those fronts this generation.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

But that's not the full reality. In the same year PS4 already had Bloodborne out. What did they release that would make PS5 a very compelling product? Seems to me if you have a powerful PC you can or will be able to play all Sony exclusives you want. If Bloodborne remake was available exclusively on PS5, I think they would not lag behind PS4 sales.

Besides we are talking about 2 games / year on PS4, well in 2023 Sony released one noteworthy game, Spider-man 2 and made plenty of GAAS promises, but who would commit to Sony ecosystem on the promise on GAAS titles that will be available day one on PC?

Again, now we see the result of their multiplatform strategy. PS5 is lagging behind PS4 by 2.3 million units. Of course I don't doubt Sony execs (the ones who pushed the PC / GAAS strategy) are going to spin this . But the causes are obvious an we see this in forums and social medias, plenty of smart people invest into the PC / Steam ecosystem instead of Playstation. This is what I'd advise people to do right now. Cheaper games, free online gaming and soon only one year of waiting to play what, 1 game / year exclusive.

Finally judging on Spider-man 2, it seems Sony are starting to push the woke agenda in their games, which is another big mistake. Devs should really wonder why Japanese games are seeing so much success with western gamers lately.

Bloodborne wasn't made by SIE it was made by FromSoftware.

The reasons for the PS5 being a compelling product don't have to be the same reasons as the PS4. The PS5 has decreased loading times, enhanced backward compatibility, AND exclusive titles.

Even if you have a powerful PC, you're not getting PlayStation titles within the same year in most cases.

That the PS5 is only 2.3 million units behind the PS4 despite supply chain issues for 2 years is a huge accomplishment, but there's something wrong with you and your comprehension.

Should have read your whole post, you entirely lost me at woke. Go to sleep snowflake.

 

[Kokoloko85]

How does a game being exclusive or not or cross platform or not alter the time and resources used to develop it?

The argument is a weak one that Sony isn't producing as much but in reality they are.

The dynamics of game development have drastically shifted, which is why we saw more cross platform and why we see PC releases.

Games are far more scalable now. If the PS4 had an SSD even more games would be cross platform.

Im just comparing exclusive games PS4 vs PS5, From 2020- 2024 vs 2013- 2017. PS studios

Demons Souls
Spiderman 2
All Stars

Vs

Uncharted 4
Infamous 2nd son
Killzone
Knack
Driveclub
Infamous 1st light
The Order
The Last Guardian
Ratchet and Clank

Horizon Zero Dawn
Uncharted Lost Legacy
GT Sports
Gravity Rush 2
Wipeout
Knack 2
EveryBody's Golf

Im even took out Bloodborne and some of the smaller titles out.
There is no comparison in exclusive PS4 vs PS5 games in the same time frame

 

[cireza]

Sorry your choice of platform failed to deliver on those fronts this generation.

Irrelevant to the current discussion. Nice try though

 

[balls of snow]

Beyond bizzare. Games cost way too much to develop to not try to recoup some of the cost from PC, especially if it doesn't eat into your hardware sales. If Sony can sell more PS5s than PS4s AND sell their first party content on PC which they didn't do on PS4, doesn't that sound like a no brainer?



They didn't say no first party games for the rest of the year. They said they won't be releasing a major franchise i.e. God of War, Spider-Man, Horizon, Gran Turismo, Uncharted, Ghost of Tsushima, or Last of Us...

It's almost in insane problem to have. No one in the industry has as many major AAA franchises, that people would get in a tizzy over not having a release in a year.

When is the next Baldur's Gate coming out or the next Elden Ring? Games take time to develop.

Sony also is making original IP, it doesn't mean the games can't sell well, they just obviously wouldn't project it to sell as much as Spider-Man 2, but guess what happened in 2020. Ghost of Tsushima sold about as well as The Last of Us 2. Elden Ring sold better than Horizon Forbidden West. New IP has the potential to overperform probably more so than existing IP which have more consistent projections.

I bet they wont have any single player fp game ready for end of the year. Concord and whatever gaas game they have is all we gonna get.

 

[Kokoloko85]

Bloodborne wasn't made by SIE it was made by FromSoftware.

Its a Sony IP, had Japan studios working on it and a Japan Studios head producing it.
Its not the same as Rise of Ronin. A none PS ip, and no producer from PS studio

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I don't think it is good when you have multiple years where Sony released 0 or 1 titles. 2 per year average should be the goal. Good chance Sony could release 4 major titles in either 2026 or 2027.

To be fair, GTA 6 should sell a shitload of consoles in 2025. That releasing alongside the pro should help the 1st party drought

What years did they release 0 titles? 2 per year average means some years are going to be 1, especially if you have some stacked years with 3-4.

How does GTA6 help the first party drought?

 

[rhodesianshepard]

But that's not the full reality. In the same year PS4 already had Bloodborne out. What did they release that would make PS5 a very compelling product? Seems to me if you have a powerful PC you can or will be able to play all Sony exclusives you want. If Bloodborne remake was available exclusively on PS5, I think they would not lag behind PS4 sales.

Besides we are talking about 2 games / year on PS4, well in 2023 Sony released one noteworthy game, Spider-man 2 and made plenty of GAAS promises, but who would commit to Sony ecosystem on the promise on GAAS titles that will be available day one on PC?

Again, now we see the result of their multiplatform strategy. PS5 is lagging behind PS4 by 2.3 million units. Of course I don't doubt Sony execs (the ones who pushed the PC / GAAS strategy) are going to spin this . But the causes are obvious an we see this in forums and social medias, plenty of smart people invest into the PC / Steam ecosystem instead of Playstation. This is what I'd advise people to do right now. Cheaper games, free online gaming and soon only one year of waiting to play what, 1 game / year exclusive.

Finally judging on Spider-man 2, it seems Sony are starting to push the woke agenda in their games, which is another big mistake. Devs should really wonder why Japanese games are seeing so much success with western gamers lately.

Pretty much everything you said is wrong. Especially Bloodborne being a massive system seller. It is a nearly 10 year old game that only has 7.5mil in sales. And "Woke" Spider-Man 2 sold 10mil in 3 months. Such a stupid political talking point that has no correlation to game sales

 

[Mister Wolf]

New generations means better hardware and better performance.

Sorry your choice of platform failed to deliver on those fronts this generation.

When games are truly designed for a new generation they look and run so poorly on the prior generation that no one in their right mind would consider playing that version. Here is two examples:

 

[Three]

Since only ~10% bought a PS4 Pro, doubt the rumors will have a significant impact.
I'd actually argue that this doesn't bode very well for a more expensive Pro-model.

The forecast is off by ~16% so not that far off if that percentage held off. It certainly doesn't bode well though especially if they wanted to make it higher margin this time.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I bet they wont have any single player fp game ready for end of the year. Concord and whatever gaas game they have is all we gonna get.

I mean we know that isn't true because Until Dawn remake is coming out, but ignoring remakes and remasters, I'd still bet my account against yours that isn't true.

Its a Sony IP, had Japan studios working on it and a Japan Studios head producing it.
Its not the same as Rise of Ronin. A none PS ip, and no producer from PS studio

You guys keep moving the goalposts.

 

[Bernardougf]

I'm a Sony guy as much as the next one but their first party this generation are lacking, imho, are lacking imagination and some trends they are pursuing are not to my liking, plus some changes to big franchises and too much wokenes in anothers, we are almost at Pro launch, is 2024, and they have ZERO first party single player games announced for this year of their own big internal studios.

People have been asking for Bloodborne where is it ? The gaas strategy and marketing backfiring after that awful presentation last year ... too much chip on square enix bad decisions, and starting releasing games on PC ( no matter the timeline this will always hurt hardware sales)

But as some have said, they inflated Their numbers too much and now have to adjust course, Ill trust they will rebound because they are competent, but they sure have to make better choices with their game development imo.

Jimbo reason for leaving Sony is becoming more clear now by the day.

 

[GHG]

When games are truly designed for a new generation they look and run so poorly on the prior generation that no one in their right mind would consider playing that version. Here is two examples:

Yep, which is why most of the games that have released in the last year (and going forwards) won't even have a last gen version at all.

Fancy that.

 

[Little Chicken]

Could the margins get any thinner? Surprised but not, if you know what I mean.

Execs have seen the writing on the wall for the past few years, hence Sony investing in GaaS and Xbox investing in other platforms.

 

[Salty Popsicle]

Why is profit so low on that high of revenue? Especially since they increased the ps5 price and costs of ps5 should be coming down.

Did they have a massive write off in the quarter?

Profit margins will increase once a large chunk of PlayStation's first party offerings are relegated to GAAS experiences in the next couple of years. Please be excited.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

When games are truly designed for a new generation they look and run so poorly on the prior generation that no one in their right mind would consider playing that version. Here is two examples:

Awful example given that that one generation struggled to do 1080p60...

There is a diminishing return on graphics that you're ignoring entirely. New generations won't necessarily make previous generations look poor, but they will bring enhancements that would otherwise feel poor.

Loading times is a big one for this generation.

The next generation is going to be AI-enhanced interactivity. We used to play games that were all text-based and then when they started adding games that had voice acting, games that still had text felt super dated. It's going to be the same thing with AI-generated voice discussion and unique gaming situations.

The rise of the Isekai is going to be huge next generation and with wireless VR, VR might hit prime time.

 

[Thaimasker]

What years did they release 0 titles? 2 per year average means some years are going to be 1, especially if you have some stacked years with 3-4.

How does GTA6 help the first party drought?

Because most people won't notice it as much. That's what 3rd parties are doing in general. It's not a Wii U situation. Still more than enough games to play

 

[DenchDeckard]

How are their profits taking such a nose dive?

Is it down to the losses on hardware?

 

[Papa_Wisdom]

Well, it is unknown for me the profit they make for each PS5 sold, so I wouldn’t say they can afford a price cut or they can’t unless we get the whole picture.

There are still many people playing games on their vanilla PS4 and PS4 Pro, sooner or later these people will move to PS5 but since most of current titles are being released on former gen consoles people don’t feel the urge to upgrade. Releasing new titles on older consoles seems to be a double-edged sword strategy, you sell more copies but don’t entice customers to upgrade their hardware

I still have and play on my PS4. With Sony’s pc push I doubt I will ever get a ps5 tbh (maybe when there sub £100).

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

How are their profits taking such a nose dive?

Is it down to the losses on hardware?

Cost of labour

Probably

 

[midnightAI]

And right before Phil's little talk, what a coinkydink

 

[Little Chicken]

Beating the shit out of Xbox? Releasing highly praised games? Selling tons of software?

This isn't how it works. "Beating the shit out of Xbox" doesn't mean much when your own business is struggling to maintain growth.

 

[Kokoloko85]

You guys keep moving the goalposts.

No you just cant accept things. I took it out the list for you.
Just accept PS4 had more PS studio exclusives in the same timeframe than PS5. Its pretty easy to see

 

[rhodesianshepard]

What years did they release 0 titles? 2 per year average means some years are going to be 1, especially if you have some stacked years with 3-4.

How does GTA6 help the first party drought?

This FY year, zero major first party releases. But If Concord is a massive hit as well + the 3rd party exclusive releases, it's not a terrible year. Definitely better than last year

Just talking about gaming landscape with GTA 6 and Sony. It will take up so much oxygen, its probably OK Sony only has 1 big release next year(most likely) with DS2

 

[Perrott]

Im just comparing exclusive games PS4 vs PS5, From 2020- 2024 vs 2013- 2017. PS studios

Demons Souls
Spiderman 2
All Stars

Vs

Uncharted 4
Infamous 2nd son
Killzone
Knack
Driveclub
Infamous 1st light
The Order
The Last Guardian
Ratchet and Clank

Horizon Zero Dawn
Uncharted Lost Legacy
GT Sports
Gravity Rush 2
Wipeout
Knack 2
EveryBody's Golf

Im even took out Bloodborne and some of the smaller titles out.
There is no comparison in exclusive PS4 vs PS5 games in the same time frame

Uhhh, you missed Astro's Playroom, Returnal, Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart, The Last Of Us Part I and Helldivers II from your PS5 list.

Plus, Horizon: Zero Dawn, Uncharted: The Lost Legacy, Wipeout Omega Collection, Everybody's Golf, Knack II and Everybody's Golf weren't even out on PS4 by the point we're in today in the PS5 lifecycle.

 

[GHG]

This isn't how it works. "Beating the shit out of Xbox" doesn't mean much when your own business is struggling to maintain growth.

They should acquire Take 2 then.

That should reignite "growth".

 

[Varteras]

This isn't how it works. "Beating the shit out of Xbox" doesn't mean much when your own business is struggling to maintain growth.

He asked what they're doing. I told him. Now shut up. You're just a chicken. How can you even talk?

 

[Ar¢tos]

Bloodborne wasn't made by SIE it was made by FromSoftware.

The reasons for the PS5 being a compelling product don't have to be the same reasons as the PS4. The PS5 has decreased loading times, enhanced backward compatibility, AND exclusive titles.

Even if you have a powerful PC, you're not getting PlayStation titles within the same year in most cases.

That the PS5 is only 2.3 million units behind the PS4 despite supply chain issues for 2 years is a huge accomplishment, but there's something wrong with you and your comprehension.

Should have read your whole post, you entirely lost me at woke. Go to sleep snowflake.

Bloodborne was co-developed with Japan Studio and multiple Sony international branches, a brief look at the credits show that. Nearly one thousand people from Sony were involved, from localisation to music recording to QA, etc.

 

[KungFucius]

That's just laughable when you consider Spider-Man 2, God of War Ragnarok, GT7, Horizon Forbidden West, Spider-Man Miles Morales, TLOU Part 1, TLOU2 remastered, Ghost of Tsushima Director's Cut, Death Stranding Directors Cut, Helldivers 2, Demon's Souls remake.

When you compare year for year the Ps5 is doing fine in terms of content. Ignoring big 3rd party games and 3rd party exclusives.

when half of your list is remakes or a straight up port of a PS4 game you aren't making the point you think you are.

 

[Little Chicken]

He asked what they're doing. I told him. Now shut up. You're just a chicken. How can you even talk?

I peck at the screen!

 

[Killjoy-NL]

This isn't how it works. "Beating the shit out of Xbox" doesn't mean much when your own business is struggling to maintain growth.

Struggling is quite a stretch there.

 

[Mownoc]

In the context of "being in trouble" wouldn't the metric to use be profit? Their operating income forecast remains unchanged so they're currently not expecting to miss that target. In regards to hardware 21m is still a higher amount than the PS4 ever shipped in a Fiscal Year and is a good result. They always admitted 25m was very ambitious and a hard target to meet.

Now is the gaming industry in some degree of trouble? Yes.
Is them shipping 21m PS5's and not 25m PS5's a cause for alarm in regards to this? Absolutely not.

 

[Varteras]

I peck at the screen!

 

[lh032]

Beating the shit out of Xbox? Releasing highly praised games? Selling tons of software?

I dont see any relevancy between what you said above and this thread?

nonetheless, please be excited 15/02/2024.

 

[IDKFA]

I think Sony is in a historically strong position in the industry, but in the near term, I think their sales are going to be limited. They might even sell fewer units next fiscal year than they did this fiscal year.

PS5 Pro
PS5 Handheld
PC Storefront
Live Service games
Playstation Productions (TV and Movie)
Expanded peripherals business

One of Sony's biggest problems is they run on pretty low margins, they have to change that. They just have to. A few failures could really derail them short term and they also have to shore up their first-party pipeline.

The good news for Sony is time is on their hands. The bad news for Sony is that they're a bit in decline in the short term, but the next 2-3 years... yeah, should be pretty good.

I already have a PS5. I'd double dip for the PS5 pro.

I'd also pay whatever Sony was asking for a PS handled that allowed me to download and play my PS library. That would be my dream handheld console!

 

[Mibu no ookami]

How are their profits taking such a nose dive?

Is it down to the losses on hardware?

Hardware losses, development costs, acquisition costs...

You have to spend money to make money in this industry and Sony is positioning itself for strength in the long run. In the short term though, they're not super profitable. I've discussed this at length on neogaf and was the basis of my conclusion that they would increase the price of the PS5.

They bought Bungie, Audeze, and some other companies... that all costs money, but they're investments. The question is do they pay dividends in 3-5-10 years.

If everyone thinks of PlayStation as the best console for sound and that's why many decide to buy a PS5 over an Xbox and they decide to buy Sony headsets instead of 3rd party headsets... than Audeze is going to be a great purchase. Hell they might end up partnering with Sony consumer electronics at some point and if that causes them to get an advantage over Apple and Bose... then yeah... good purchase.

You look at the 229 million Sony spent on Insomniac, and that has certainly paid off.

For all we know Bungie helped with Helldivers 2.

 

[Varteras]

I dont see any relevancy between what you said above and this thread?

nonetheless, please be excited 15/02/2024.

He's a disingenuous turd. He deserves nothing.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I already have a PS5. I'd double dip for the PS5 pro.

I'd also pay whatever Sony was asking for a PS handled that allowed me to download and play my PS library. That would be my dream handheld console!

I'd bet my account that a PS handheld comes out, the question is whether you'll be able to play your PS library or whether you'll have to double dip entirely or pay for a multi-use license.