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[IDKFA]

Not sure that is true. I think that assumes that the customers who would own it are customers who already own PS5s, but I think the Switch kind of proves that isn't likely to be the case.

Are the people buying Switch Lite all owners of a Switch? I doubt it.

I think a dual license fee of 10-20 bucks would be a fair compromise.

No, but the Switch lite is just a Switch that doesn't connect to the TV. If I buy a Switch and then buy a Switch lite, I'm not being charged extra to access the games on both devices.

If somebody buys just the PS portable then they'll just have access to the same games on the PS5 store.

A duel license fee of 10-20 bucks per game? That would kill the device off instantly. Let's say I had 100 games in my PS library. To play them on the go, I'd need to spend another 1000-2000 bucks?!?! And you think people will be up for that?

 

[Mister Wolf]

Not to worry Sonybros, Thursday will be here soon. Xbox will help you out with games.
When everybody plays, we all win.

Sea of Thieves - Pirate Emporium

Visit the Pirate Emporium for premium livery sets, emotes, pets and more to express yourself.

www.seaofthieves.com

They better get their credit cards ready.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

No, but the Switch lite is just a Switch that doesn't connect to the TV. If I buy a Switch and then buy a Switch lite, I'm not being charged extra to access the games on both devices.

If somebody buys just the PS portable then they'll just have access to the same games on the PS5 store.

A duel license fee of 10-20 bucks per game? That would kill the device off instantly. Let's say I had 100 games in my PS library. To play them on the go, I'd need to spend another 1000-2000 bucks?!?! And you think people will be up for that?

My point is not everyone buying one is buying the other, so while it might be DOA to you and your use case, it won't be for them.

Who needs to get a dual not duel license for each of the games in their library? Most people would target the games they want to play the most on the handheld.

The average attach rate is 7-9 games a generation, that's 70 bucks to 200 bucks to play all those games on handheld, doesn't sound crazy to me.

 

[Robb]

I see no evidence to suggest that Nintendo is doing a better job than anyone in the industry

Why don’t you make a list of Sony’s first party output in 2023 and then we can compare it to Mister Wolf then?

Then we should get a pretty good picture of who did a better job.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Why don’t you make a list of Sony’s first party output in 2023 and then we can compare it to Mister Wolf then?

Then we should get a pretty good picture of who did a better job.

Do the Mary Jane missions get to count as a separate title?

 

[IDKFA]

My point is not everyone buying one is buying the other, so while it might be DOA to you and your use case, it won't be for them.

Who needs to get a dual not duel license for each of the games in their library? Most people would target the games they want to play the most on the handheld.

The average attach rate is 7-9 games a generation, that's 70 bucks to 200 bucks to play all those games on handheld, doesn't sound crazy to me.

It does sound crazy. It sounds like a failed product. Valve don't charge extra to access games on your Steam library on the Steam Deck. If they charged customers to access each game it would have been DOA..

"Here is a handheld that'll play the games in your PS library on the go! However, you need to pay 10-20 bucks per game to play them on the go"

Nobody with a current PS library would do that. The device would be a failure.

 

[IDappa]

Competition is a good thing. Xbox has not been that competition though. Besides, stockholders demand constant growth. That's enough to light fire under their ass.

And considering their low-profit margins, despite record revenue, I'd not be surprised if SIE increases the prices of certain things. And I think that'd be justified. Xbox also increased their Xbox Live Gold price by 100% even though they were struggling in the last place.

Anyway, this conversation would just derail the thread, so I'd avoid it.

I think you’d be surprised just if Xbox wasn’t around how far Sony went with it. Even if they aren’t the best competitors, it is insane to think Sony doesn’t take them into account when thinking about their business strategies. Just look at the ABK court info released where Sony cites Microsoft’s strategy and how they are behind in some aspects.

Without competition it would be devastating for all in the Sony ecosystem. If all people have to choose from is Playstation in the console high performance market than we would be worse off.

 

[Bert Big Balls]

25 million was always going to be a steep goal, but they still did great.

And, by the way, THIS is why "Sony needs competition by Xbox" is not a valid argument. They will aways be competing with QoQ internal growth targets. They didn't meet expectations this quarter and will make improvements so they can next quarter. They don't need external competition for that.

Yeah, I mean the original PlayStation did fine for 7 years before the Xbox came out. Hell, even the PS2 was out like a year and a half before Xbox. Those consoles were fantastic and sold over 100 million (PS1) and 150 million units (PS2).

 

[VAVA Mk2]

Meanwhile...on PC

 

[nial]

No offence but you clearly don't understand what 1st party means.

Enlighten me, then.

Now that everyone is counting non internal games as 1st party, Im gonna say the lack of Internal, PS studio games is not good.

They need more. By this time this generation, Naughty Dog had released Uncharted 4, Guerilla was on the way to releasing there 2nd game, Sucker punch, Japan studios all had exclusives for the console. The only true PS5 exclusives PS studios have released is Spiderman 2 and Demons Souls. You can play the rest elsewhere

First, we always did.
Second, I think we should stop blaming the studios for the cross-gen thing when that was always up to Sony. We had HFW, GOW Ragnarök, Rift Apart and Gran Turismo 7 early on the console's lifecycle, FFS.

Stellar Blade and Rise of Ronin are third party exclusives, neither the studios or the IPs belong to Sony, it's not a Bloodborne situation.
In theory, after the time set in the contract ends, they can published on other platforms by other publisher, with a suffixed name (director's cut, uncut, definitive edition, etc) to prevent conflicts.

Pretty big assumptions, especially when we already have examples like Sunset Overdrive where that is clearly not the case.

 

[Ar¢tos]

Enlighten me, then.

First, we always did.
Second, I think we should stop blaming the studios for the cross-gen thing when that was always up to Sony. We had HFW, GOW Ragnarök, Rift Apart and Gran Turismo 7 early on the console's lifecycle, FFS.

Pretty big assumptions, especially when we already have examples like Sunset Overdrive where that is clearly not the case.

Sony hasn't released Sunset Overdrive on Playstation not because they can't, but because they have no interest in it. They own the studio that make it and the IP, while MS has the publishing rights for "Sunset Overdrive", they don't have the publishing rights to "Sunset Overdrive Remaster/Remake/Redux/Overload, etc"

 

[nial]

Sony hasn't released Sunset Overdrive on Playstation not because they can't, but because they have no interest in it. They own the studio that make it and the IP, while MS has the publishing rights for "Sunset Overdrive", they don't have the publishing rights to "Sunset Overdrive Remaster/Remake/Redux/Overload, etc"

They have the rights to the WHOLE game, literally no different from Sony having ownership of Spider-Man 2018 and Insomniac/Marvel not being able to do anything about it.
Their only choice here would be to remake it entirely, and nobody cares enough to do that.

 

[Kings Field]

 

[Fake]

Cancel Horizon Zero Dawn Remake/Multiplayer and vouala, you save money.

 

[ShaiKhulud1989]

Meanwhile...on PC

...GPU prices are off the charts.

 

[Ar¢tos]

They have the rights to the WHOLE game, literally no different from Sony having ownership of Spider-Man 2018 and Insomniac/Marvel not being able to do anything about it.
Their only choice here would be to remake it entirely, and nobody cares enough to do that.

Sony doesn't own spider man.
Sony Pictures has an indefinite license for to produce Spider-Man content with a duration over 45 minutes for TV/cinema.
This has nothing to do with Spider-Man games.
Microsoft rejected the offer to make a Spider-Man game and Marvel approached Sony for it after.

Nvm, you meant the game, not the movie.
Why would insomniac or marvel want to do anything with it?

 

[Fake]

The only thing that matters is Spider-Man 2 sales.

Right?

 

[StereoVsn]

Decreasing the price decreases their margins and Xbox isn't selling so it doesn't make a lot of sense to decrease the price too much. They might have to take another look at this once the Ps5 Pro launches.

They're operating income was already impacted by discounts in North America (discount being a PS5 bundled with Spider-Man). They didn't need to do this in Europe during the holidays because they knew they had Microsoft beat.

The problem with this mindset on hardware is that you aren’t expanding your base for software sales.

$500 / €500 is a lot for quite a few folks and a 4th year console really should have a price cut to expand the audience. Sony is going to get slower and slower sales at this price point.

 

[Allandor]

Not really a surprise while more or less in a recession and the console still costs around 500€.
Currently they are also missing a game that really is a system seller to those that didn't already buy a console.

 

[Roufianos]

Enlighten me, then.

First, we always did.
Second, I think we should stop blaming the studios for the cross-gen thing when that was always up to Sony. We had HFW, GOW Ragnarök, Rift Apart and Gran Turismo 7 early on the console's lifecycle, FFS.

Pretty big assumptions, especially when we already have examples like Sunset Overdrive where that is clearly not the case.

1st party means Sony owns the studio. A game can be exclusive or timed exclusive without being 1st party, as with those games you listed.

 

[Kokoloko85]

Enlighten me, then.

First, we always did.

Normally mostly 1st party meant studios that are owned by the Platform that make a game. Or at the very least IPs that are owned the Platform. Games like Rise of the Ronin, the ip is not owned by Sony and I dont think Stellar blade is either. Also Death Stranding not sure owns it anymore. I think Kojima does. Whereas first it was Sony.

Second, I think we should stop blaming the studios for the cross-gen thing when that was always up to Sony. We had HFW, GOW Ragnarök, Rift Apart and Gran Turismo 7 early on the console's lifecycle, FFS.

Apart from GOWR which was supposedly there choice to go cross platform, the rest was probably Sony’s decision. And GT7 was build for PS5 and later decided to have a PS4 version. Im not blaming anything, just talking pure PS5 exclusives or not

 

[GnomeChimpsky]

Exponentially increasing development time and costs even before the Covid bubble, live service fatigue, they/them employees sabotaging their companies at every turn. Why would anyone be surprised by this?

 

[Astray]

But that's the point. Bloodborne was a risky AA project for Sony.

In what universe was that AA? At least 2 studios worked on that title.

 

[Sweden85]

 

[LakeOf9]

Believe it or not, gaming is more than just Sony

 

[LordOcidax]

I told people they wouldn't hit 25 million units for the calendar year and that Spider-Man while performing well, probably isn't to expectations.

They had to bundle Spider-Man 2 with the PS5 which they probably didn't want to do at cost and they're now discounting the PS5 in Europe.

That being said, would be hilarious to overreact to this news.

The 25 Million forecast was for the Fiscal Year. Now it starting to look that reaching 20 Million for the fiscal year its going to be hard… And is the peak year for the PS5…

 

[lucbr]

The console market is small and unsustainable in the long term with these margins. Hence Sony's diversification by launching on PC and keeping Bungie games multiplatform. That's the right call.

Microsoft has today a huge number of studios and franchises. They are also a software and PC company first. I'm not at all surprised that they will release their games on all devices. From a business point of view, it seems the right strategy. With Actvision, their gaming division makes up a significant part of the company, with revenues similar to Sony's. They will certainly seek to increase margins, diversify their portfolio and expand the ways of people accessing it.

I'm not a fan as I'm primarily a console gamer but that seems to be the way the industry is headed and I might get why.

 

[ResilientBanana]

...GPU prices are off the charts.

I've had my 1080 for nearly 7 years. It still works with today's games. I can upgrade any time I want, but I don't need to.

 

[nial]

Why would insomniac or marvel want to do anything with it?

I don't know, maybe porting it to other consoles or even PC (by their own terms)? They couldn't because Sony had ownership of the whole game, even if they didn't own the Spider-Man IP.
Gotta keep in mind the fact that Insomniac was an independent company until November 2019.

1st party means Sony owns the studio. A game can be exclusive or timed exclusive without being 1st party, as with those games you listed.

1st party and 3rd party refer to the publishing aspect, not developing.
This in the credits of Bloodborne, a ""2nd party"" game.

Normally mostly 1st party meant studios that are owned by the Platform that make a game.

Read above.

Or at the very least IPs that are owned the Platform.

So, where would the Spider-Man games fit in all of this?

Apart from GOWR which was supposedly there choice to go cross platform, the rest was probably Sony’s decision. And GT7 was build for PS5 and later decided to have a PS4 version. Im not blaming anything, just talking pure PS5 exclusives or not

They are still PS5 games, though. These internal studios have already released their first projects going into this gen, of course you will have to wait more time for them to show up again.

 

[Dr. Samuel Hayden]

Maybe stop focusing on GAAS garbage, stop with the price increases, and stop shutting down studios that do things other than AAA third person western games, etc.

 

[Lupin25]

Uh oh:


Time to sell your ps5

Because we’re done playing GoW, Spider-Man, TLOU?

Overreact much…

 

[Mibu no ookami]

The 25 Million forecast was for the Fiscal Year. Now it starting to look that reaching 20 Million for the fiscal year its going to be hard… And is the peak year for the PS5…

i meant fiscal year.

 

[Neo_game]

So this means that rumor about console manufacturing/shipment was true for both PS5 and XS consoles.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

The problem with this mindset on hardware is that you aren’t expanding your base for software sales.

$500 / €500 is a lot for quite a few folks and a 4th year console really should have a price cut to expand the audience. Sony is going to get slower and slower sales at this price point.

What mindset are you talking about. I didn't say they'll never reduce their prices, but they do have to hit certain metrics for that to be possible including reduction in manufacturing costs and supply chain costs.

The Switch barely reduced in price and still sells. Ultimately we'll see how much slow down there is and Sony will adjust as needed based on their internal metrics. They've already started discounting in Europe.

 

[solidus12]

Colteastwood’s news video: PlayStation is DYING and Xbox is the TRUE market LEADER.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Helldivers 2 and Concord will do all the heavy lifting for them. GAAS showing up just in time.

 

[StereoVsn]

Posting the slides here:

So the numbers here show why their COO is concerned about profitability. Revenue is indeed growing but profits are staying the same or shrinking. So the margins are doing pretty badly.

And they really do need to cut hardware price so they can get more users on PS5 to buy games, play GaaS, sub to PS+ and so on.

 

[Kokoloko85]

I don't know, maybe porting it to other consoles or even PC (by their own terms)? They couldn't because Sony had ownership of the whole game, even if they didn't own the Spider-Man IP.
Gotta keep in mind the fact that Insomniac was an independent company until November 2019.

1st party and 3rd party refer to the publishing aspect, not developing.
This in the credits of Bloodborne, a ""2nd party"" game.

Read above.

I know, That why I just say PS studios instead of 1st party because of nitpickers

So, where would the Spider-Man games fit in all of this?

Sony owns Spiderman lol

They are still PS5 games, though. These internal studios have already released their first projects going into this gen, of course you will have to wait more time for them to show up again.

They are also PS4 games. I was complaining about lack of purely PS5 exclusives

 

[StereoVsn]

It does sound crazy. It sounds like a failed product. Valve don't charge extra to access games on your Steam library on the Steam Deck. If they charged customers to access each game it would have been DOA..

"Here is a handheld that'll play the games in your PS library on the go! However, you need to pay 10-20 bucks per game to play them on the go"

Nobody with a current PS library would do that. The device would be a failure.

Yeah, charging extra to access games you own on a Sony PS handheld is crazy talk unless they are ports. And if Sony has to port games in the first place that’s already a failure. Vita 2 coming up basically.

 

[nial]

Sony owns Spiderman lol

They don't...

They are also PS4 games. I was complaining about lack of purely PS5 exclusives

That's kind of another matter, which is fair.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

"Gaming is in big trouble?" What are you talking about.

Gaming is fine, it's a natural correction in the market after the artifical bump that made everything explode during COVID when people were trapped in their homes with nothing to do other than stream & play videogames. And electronics were sold as soon as they hit the shelves because inventory was so hard to come by due to the chip shortage.

So, just chill.

 

[ManaByte]

People simply don’t have $350+ to spend on game consoles right now. Switch is doing well because the Lite is only $200 and the base model is $299. Asking $400-500 for a game console in this economy is a non-starter for most people.

 

[Aaron Olive]

That's what happens's when a pandemic comes along and punches you in the face requiring you to have to keep software support on the hardware you put out 9 years ago and global economic recovery is still shaky.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Well they're going to have to come with something. How else are they going to trick you guys into buying a PS5 Pro?

Death Stranding 2 and GTA6 shortly thereafter in 2025?

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

So the numbers here show why their COO is concerned about profitability. Revenue is indeed growing but profits are staying the same or shrinking. So the margins are doing pretty badly.

And they really do need to cut hardware price so they can get more users on PS5 to buy games, play GaaS, sub to PS+ and so on.

I still don’t get why margins are down so much. Hardware should be cheaper now with the slim, and they increased the price.

Was there a big write off in this quarter?

Maybe they overbuilt PS5s this quarter and couldn’t sell them?

 

[FalconPunch]

Uh oh:


Time to sell your ps5

Since Shu Yoshida stepped down from managing first party, Sony's first party has been struggling. Like wtf are they even doing when you have that many studios and you have a year gap of no games? If not for Insomniac, this gen would have been complete trash from Sony.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Since Shu Yoshida stepped down from managing first party, Sony's first party has been struggling. Like wtf are they even doing when you have that many studios and you have a year gap of no games? If not for Insomniac, this gen would have been complete trash from Sony.

No major franchises in 2025, but that doesn’t mean no first party

Could have something from AstroBot

 

[arkhamguy123]

That's just laughable when you consider Spider-Man 2, God of War Ragnarok, GT7, Horizon Forbidden West, Spider-Man Miles Morales, TLOU Part 1, TLOU2 remastered, Ghost of Tsushima Director's Cut, Death Stranding Directors Cut, Helldivers 2, Demon's Souls remake.

When you compare year for year the Ps5 is doing fine in terms of content. Ignoring big 3rd party games and 3rd party exclusives.

Hate to be this guy but

Exclusive, Cross Gen I can play it on my PS4, Cross Gen I can play it on my PS4, Cross Gen I can play it on my PS4, Cross Gen I can play it on my PS4, Also on PC, Remaster of a PS4 game, Remaster of a PS4 game, Remaster of a PS4 game, Also on PC, Exclusive (but a remake of a PS3 game)

The guy you’re responding to had a point

 

[twilo99]

How is gaming in trouble when you have BG3 and Palworld breaking all sorts of records?

 

[XXL]

It's hilarious that all these companies thought the covid growth would sustain. Lol.