excelforward
Member
ZephyrFate said:
They do. It's called BaitBus/gay-for-pay.
Gay and Bisexual Coming-out thread |OT|
- Thread starter Replicant
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They do. It's called BaitBus/gay-for-pay.
a. which gays do "define themselves by their sexuality"?Rez said:
b. "i'm gay, but I don't define myself by my sexuality" or "it's just a small part of who I am" is bullshit... not because it's an untrue statement, but because you will never, ever see any straight man or woman say that about their heterosexuality. semantically speaking, it's an apology for being gay.
kame-sennin said:
:/ i don't know any people like this in real life, thank god. i wouldn't be able to put up with them.
I know I shouldn't care what they think, because what other people think of my sexuality isn't really important, but I just can't help but feel like they should be corrected.
I'm sure there *are* some guys who are just totally closeted gays, but I know myself, and I know that I'm like 60/40 guys/girls. *shrug* that's good enough for me to consider myself bi.
kame-sennin
Member
Sai-kun said:
I feel the same way. The problem is, if I have this conversation about how bi-sexuality is real and I am one, I'll be forced to defend the fact that I'm attracted to women, and I don't feel like I should have to do that. It feels homophobic to say, "I like guys, but I still totally like big boobs, I swear!". Also, I don't like the implication that I'm lying about my attraction to women - either to others, or to myself.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
I don't walk up to people and say "Hi, my name is [Rez]. I'm super-gay but don't worry guys I'm, like, totally normal!!!~~", I let people work out who I am in the same way they would work out whether or not I'm introverted or extraverted over the course of a conversation. When people ask, I say "yeah, I'm into dudes" or "yep, totally gay" *blank smile*, and on with the conversation we go, I don't think any further explanation is needed, they can either keep asking questions or work out what sort of person I am through my mannerisms or reactions to other questions, much like they would when they first meet any other new person. Phrases like 'straight-acting' are wretched. It implies there's such a thing as 'gay-acting', which is equally offensive and the opposite of what people who use the phrase are trying to communicate.FoneBone said:
'defining yourself by your sexuality' wasn't aimed solely at gays. I have nothing against outward effeminacy, I'm happy for lots of different kinds of people to make up a happy rainbow of straights and gays and talls and shorts and on and on, but please tell me I'm not the only one who vomits a little bit in their mouth when they hear someone who wears their exaggerated masculinity or effeminacy on their sleeve? This isn't a hate-filled thought, it's a clash of personalities.
If you want to walk around in short-shorts, exaggerate an accent and wear rainbow colours, you're welcome too, but I find it totally disengaging and uninteresting.
CrocMother
Banned
kame-sennin said:
I feel the same way, but don't consider myself bisexual.
I am open to experimentation of all kinds sexually. I think to open your mind sexually you should make no distinction between "fucking" or "being fucked". However, I have never in reality met a guy that I would be very comfortable doing this with.
To me, sexual orientation is based on a primal attraction to a certain sex. Some people growing up begin to notice girls, some notice men, I am not sure what if anything could predict those conditions.
I grew up being attracted to women and although through sexual meditation by myself and with my awesome partner I have no inner qualms about gender and sexuality it would still be quite an effort to overcome the fact that I don't find men sexy.
And for me, sex shouldn't be about doing something that goes against your feelings just to say you did it, or check it off a mental list of some sort. If it is weird for you, it's weird for everyone.
So in summary, I am straight but open to the idea of bisexual experimentation. I am still just straight though because I am attracted to the feminine form, just like gay people are attracted to the masculine.
Is there anyone in this thread that truly feels that they possess and have always possessed equal attraction to both genders? This subject truly interests me and if anyone has any recommendations for reading about bisexuality I would most eagerly absorb it.
ZephyrFate
Banned
I was thinking more of gay robots that transform into drag queens.excelforward said:
Anyone ever have to come out to their friends' mother? I think it might be approaching that status for me, I am not sure how I would deal with that. Seems awkward. But she keeps making comments about how me and her daughter make such a cute couple and she really treats me like I'm already her son every time I see her. Awesome lady, but I don't want her believing me and her daughter are ever going to get together.
I mean, we did date years ago, so maybe there is some residual hope there that one day we're going to realize we're perfect for each other and get married? :lol
Like I said, it's starting to get a little awkward around her when she keeps calling us the perfect couple. If I weren't gay, it would probably be true; but how do I convey that to her; should I come out to my friends' mom? Maybe I can just tell my friend she needs to have a sit down with her mom on my behalf? :lol
I mean, we did date years ago, so maybe there is some residual hope there that one day we're going to realize we're perfect for each other and get married? :lol
Like I said, it's starting to get a little awkward around her when she keeps calling us the perfect couple. If I weren't gay, it would probably be true; but how do I convey that to her; should I come out to my friends' mom? Maybe I can just tell my friend she needs to have a sit down with her mom on my behalf? :lol
ZephyrFate
Banned
"Hi, friend's mom, I like to suck dick, sorry."
That's how I'd do it.
That's how I'd do it.
Dead Prince
Banned
Koomaster said:
I'm not the type of guy that will fuck your daughter. i'm the type that will fuck your daughter's boyfriend.
just be straight with her. Unless her mom thinks her daughter may never ever find a guy ever at all.
Well her daughter is bi and seems to prefer girls, so that is a real possibility. The whole thing is kind of a mess; although me and her are cool with each other and best friends. It's our damn families who can't let our relationship go.DMPrince said:
Her family is always talking about me and asking what I'm up to if I'm not with her, and vice versa. Like my SIL is always asking about her; she met her 1 time like five years ago.
My go to response is we are just friends, But apparently men and women cannot be friends without there being some romantic interest there. I feel like we are in a bad romantic comedy where our families are just waiting going 'will they or won't they'.
kame-sennin
Member
jdogmoney said:
I know someone who I think might be asexual. Is it difficult and lonely? I've never seen my friend pursue anyone of either gender (and I've known him for years) and I often feel like I should help him in some way. But on the other hand, if he's asexual, does that mean he's perfectly happy always being alone? Am I just projecting society's standards on him by assuming he must be depressed because he's always single?
sublime085 said:
Didn't they say the same thing about gays decades ago?
_Isaac said:
*shrug* Everytime I pop into these threads, you're generally talking about some gym antic/drama and I've associated the Naota avatar to these things. *shrug*
Edit: To be on topic...
This is true. And it's why I love "genderfuck"/androgynous people. I'm the type of person that while wanting to be "normal" isn't normal. I mean, I'm disabled, left-handed, and asexual-leaning-toward-gay. If I was black or asian or some other "race"ial trait, I'd probably be the ultimate minority. :lol
Cosmic Bus said:
Been there, done that. Lexapro didn't help my depression. Sure, it masked it and made me lifeless/robotic. It didn't solve it. I stopped taking it and just fell back into depression.
Talking to someone doesn't seem to help, either. I do it nearly monthly, but it just doesn't seem to make me happy/any better. *shrug* I think I'm not discontent with how my life is than I am depressed anymore, however.
excelforward said:
:lol And Randy Blue, IIRC.
Koomaster said:
Are you pretty much out to everybody? I ask because if you tell her then that information is going to spread no matter what. If you're fine with that then I don't really see a problem with coming out to your friends mom. I wouldn't really resort to a sit down or asking your friend to do it. I would just wait for one of those moments when she makes her comments and just respond with "Naw, I'm gay" and that's that.
ZephyrFate
Banned
And StraightCollegeMen, and Corbin Fisher...TheSeks said:
Escape Goat
Member
Nakedsword...not so much bait bus stuff but oh la la.
ZephyrFate said:
I wouldn't know those. Twinks are more my thing (as sad as that is to admit).
That said, the "Straight College" thing generally is just fake as hell and is just gay sex with some weak "he doth protest too much" thing for me.
Funny how _Issac glosses over my possible attraction to him in a creepy way, heh.
Dead Man said:
Time to go to the wikipedia!
Edit: GAWD-DAYUM, son. He's straight by gay-for-pay, seriously? Dude's pretty cute and I'd let him rail me any day.
Cosmic Bus
pristine morning snow
TheSeks said:
I'm curious about this comment. Does the admission make you feel emasculated? Marginalized?
ZephyrFate
Banned
He is super hot, why have I never seen him before?Dead Man said:
Ollie Pooch
In a perfect world, we'd all be homersexual
He's hot, but he's so tediously aware of it that it's a turnoff. For me, anyway.ZephyrFate said:
Suairyu said:
All right, with your previous post explaining a bit where you're coming from and this one, I can see your point and agree with it to some extent.
The extreme flamboyancy is in some cases just a question of people wanting to be part of something. When you've felt an outcast for a long time and like you didn't fit in, it's understandable why you would do anything to fit in your new found "clique".
However, for some people, it has more to do with being able to express who they are. If they become different after coming out or hanging out with people who won't (normally) judge them for being gay, then maybe it's because they feel comfortable enough to be themselves.
Plus, behaviors change depending on the context. I don't think anyone is exactly the same at all time. No one would behave with their friends the same way they do with their grandparents for example. However, they're not being transformed: it's just merely another side of their persona.
I agree with you that bisexuality is sadly often misconceived and that people can be real idiots.
One of the reason for that is that people are thinking that if you're with one gender, you'll start missing sex with the other. Which is a bit ridiculous. When people are straight/gay and monogamous, they're not gonna go around fucking other people because they miss other dicks/pussies. Why would bisexual do that? Sure some guys have a gf and go fucking guy on the weekend, but this has nothing to do with bisexuality. Those guys are just assholes cheating on their gf. Guy or girl it doesn't really matter.
Another one is that a lot of gays go through the phase of "I'm bi" before fully accepting themselves as gay. I claimed I was bi when I was in high school even though I wasn't. Can't really say why I did that because my friends were fine with me being gay, bi or straight but I guess that was a first step in announcing it to the world.
I do think however that LGBT is legitimate as a community. It's just sad some people seem to forget how it feels to be hated by others on no rational basis. Like why would you hate on bisexuals? If you don't want to be involved with one, then just... don't.
As for your coming out story, my dad was also the hardest person to come out to but for slightly different reasons. He's gay as well and I was afraid that if I came out, he would think that we had a "special bond" because both of us were gay. I mean we do have a special bond since he's my dad, but I was expecting awkwardness and him wanting us to go out together. To be honest that was pretty stupid of me because he's definitely not the kind of person who would go out with his sons.
To this day he never talked to me about us being gay. The conversations we had about gay-related subjects (mariage, adoption, etc...) were brought up by me. I think I'm WAY more comfortable with being gay than he is. That said, I still can't really bring myself to ask him if he's dating anyone
Did you try talking about it with your mom since she told you not to tell your father? You seem to have a lot of pent-up anger and with you being still at home, it must be pretty hard.
Good luck with that though, and I can assure you that some gay people don't have any problem or grief towards bisexuals
PS: Chaosmen anyone?
Not at all. I do everything I can to avoid the subject. Since that incident, I also avoid telling her anything about my relationships also, save for when I've been going steady with someone for a long time. It sucks, but the whole thing just pushed me to always keep my private life as hidden from my family as possible and I don't think that will change until I'm a fully independent individual, doing well in my career and living the life I want to.Alcoori said:
For sure. I don't wish to imply I thought it was a majority opinion among people to dislike bi-sexuals, just that it shocks me how prevalent the attitude is. Certainly, I only surround myself with people who pass the "not a prejudice twat" and in my experience they are more numerous than those who fail it.Good luck with that though, and I can assure you that some gay people don't have any problem or grief towards bisexuals
It's like the notion of a GAF hivemind - it's bullshit, but it's difficult to see anything but a singular entity sometimes when the minority opinion is shouted the loudest, or when that opinion is unfortunately one held by people who'd be described as pillars of the community. That make sense? If only one in ten people thought that way, that's still too many people, aye?
Suairyu said:
I don't know who you're thinking about when you say a pillar of the community but even when the minority opinion is shouted the loudest, you cannot dismiss a whole community as being bad for the advancement of gay rights. It's not right and you have to work to educate the idiots, on that we can agree.
Also not sure which country you're from, but the gay community varies from a country to the next. In most countries where gay rights exist (I'm thinking mariage/adoption) and homophobic attacks are "low", the gay community tends to be less "insular" and more diverse and accepting.
I've lived in both the UK and France and in my opinion the gay community was slightly different in each country.
My impression of the French one as of 3 years ago was that of a general feeling that gay people didn't deserve to be as "normal" as straight couples. Gay adoption is still pretty taboo and we have a second class marriage that is also opened to straight couple.
In the UK however, the general feeling was that gay people can have the exact same life as their straight peers if they choose to (except gay-marriage is not called marriage). All sorts of gay people are visible in the media (ranging from the bitchy queen to the "straight-acting" gay) and it's generally discussed. It feels more open and accepting.
Of course my observations are just that: observations. And I might have been lucky in my experiences and the people I've met.
I've had 2 people choose to come out to me before anyone else. It made me feel warm & fuzzy to receive that level of trust. I'd like to think that all my friends and relatives would trust me like that. I'd hate to find out that one of them was struggling with their sexuality and had nobody to turn to.
Big kudos to those of you that are already out & much strength to those of you that aren't.
Big kudos to those of you that are already out & much strength to those of you that aren't.
Oh, nono. I'm not dismissing LGBT communities due to my unfortunate experiences. That was simply the catalyst that got me thinking about the issue (a choir boy molested by a priest wouldn't think that all priests are child molesters, but it might act as a catalyst to question the morality of authoritarian, organised religion and its role in a modern society*). My problem with LGBT communities is political, social and principle, not because of my own time with them.Alcoori said:
And by pillar of the community I was talking about people I met during my University times.
And with that, hopefully all points of confusion in everything I've said are cleared up. This has taken way too many posts and I'm sorry I haven't been articulate enough.
*best analogy I could think of. Sorry, it stinks.
Spiritreaver
Member
First off, really hate the new thread setup, but whatever. I'll deal.
Second off, I'm kinda torn right now. Last night I went out to eat with some friends,and the topic of a kid my friend's knew came up. Me and this kid sort of saw each other for perhaps a couple of weeks at the most. He was messed up in the head, the result of a lot of pain growing up. He was a good guy, just was screwed up and thought about horrible things so I had to get away. Needless to stay I still felt for him.
Well, he killed himself the other day. Keep in mind we were together a year ago, and hadn't kept in touch since. But it was a pretty gruesome suicide, with no warning, no note left behind.
I just feel like, even if I Hardly knew the kid. I learned a hell of a lot about him from the talks we had. He really just needed someone, particularly his friends and family, to be there for him. Especially in regards to his sexuality. He strived pretty hard to be normal, he tried to join a frat, everything, but it just seemed like society was against him all the time. (That's the impression I got anyway.)
I feel like, maybe I screwed up. My friends had no remorse over his death either, it was almost like a joke. They talked about it so casually. When I asked if it was the same kid that I knew, they started laughing and bringing up the fact that I "dated" this creepy kid at all.
I don't know, it's just fucked up and I'm feeling guilty and uneasy. I'm not truly sad, just disappointed in myself. I know realistically there was nothing I could do, bu I've always been the kinda guy who goes out of his way to help people suffering emotionally. Ugh.
Second off, I'm kinda torn right now. Last night I went out to eat with some friends,and the topic of a kid my friend's knew came up. Me and this kid sort of saw each other for perhaps a couple of weeks at the most. He was messed up in the head, the result of a lot of pain growing up. He was a good guy, just was screwed up and thought about horrible things so I had to get away. Needless to stay I still felt for him.
Well, he killed himself the other day. Keep in mind we were together a year ago, and hadn't kept in touch since. But it was a pretty gruesome suicide, with no warning, no note left behind.
I just feel like, even if I Hardly knew the kid. I learned a hell of a lot about him from the talks we had. He really just needed someone, particularly his friends and family, to be there for him. Especially in regards to his sexuality. He strived pretty hard to be normal, he tried to join a frat, everything, but it just seemed like society was against him all the time. (That's the impression I got anyway.)
I feel like, maybe I screwed up. My friends had no remorse over his death either, it was almost like a joke. They talked about it so casually. When I asked if it was the same kid that I knew, they started laughing and bringing up the fact that I "dated" this creepy kid at all.
I don't know, it's just fucked up and I'm feeling guilty and uneasy. I'm not truly sad, just disappointed in myself. I know realistically there was nothing I could do, bu I've always been the kinda guy who goes out of his way to help people suffering emotionally. Ugh.
Souldriver
Member
I'm not surprised. You seem like an awesome guy. Some people just have the right attitude for this kind of stuff. A friend of mine is just like you, but she had 3 people come out to her. She's doesn't understand why people confide in her so much, but it's just that she's a great person. She has the "who cares" attitude when it comes to sexuality, but in a good way off course.SmokyDave said:
I think I would be feeling the same way you do if I was in your situation. You just need to know that it was *not* your fault in any way.So sorry you're going through this. *hug/comfort*DarthWufei said:
And you're right, there is nothing realistically you could have done. Just have to remember that people are responsible for their own decisions. It's hard, but people have to keep trying to reach out if they are in pain. There ARE sympathetic ears out there that will listen. I'm sure if he would have gotten in touch with you and asked for help, you would have been there for him.
Your friends sound a little cruel tho to make a joke out of that guy's death and treat it so casually; making fun of you on top of it. Maybe they just weren't close to him in any way and that's how they chose to deal. No one wants to dwell on things like that, especially if it wasn't someone close to them.
Really only out to friends and my mom. My family I don't really care enough about that they know. Maybe my sister, but I don't want to cause any tension there, she's pretty religious now and has made some not so nice remarks regarding homosexuals in the past._Isaac said:
As for my friend's mom, just seems weird to have to come out to her, even casually. But seriously, the cute couple remarks about me and her daughter are starting to get awkward. They aren't so much remarks as hints. Maybe it's me, but every time she says something in my head is all this subtext going; 'Why are you and my daughter not married yet?' :lol
Siebzehn50
Member
Hm, today is National Coming Out Day.
I'm tempted just to post that I'm bi on Facebook. I already had one friend do it.
I'm tempted just to post that I'm bi on Facebook. I already had one friend do it.
ZephyrFate
Banned
I'm gonna say it -- I don't believe coming out should be some sort of fanfare-parade-esque deal.
And that's why I'm not actively supporting "National Coming Out Day".
And that's why I'm not actively supporting "National Coming Out Day".
Siebzehn50
Member
ZephyrFate said:
I completely agree with you, and that's why I want to do it on Facebook. It lets people know if they want to know without making a big deal out of it.
ThLunarian
Member
I just wanted to share a personal anecdote. About 9 years ago, a friend of mine from high school (this was during our first year of college and we were in different states by now) messaged me and implied that she was depressed and scared, and I asked her what was wrong.
She said that if she told me, I might hate her. At this point I started worrying, thinking that she had committed some horrible crime. That would have been very out of character for her, but I couldn't think of anything else that might give her that idea. I asked her again what had happened.
She said she was a lesbian.
Now, I wasn't aware of that beforehand, but it didn't strike me as a big deal so I waited for the actual bad news to follow. When she didn't say anything else, I replied "That's it?"
And it was. Somehow she was terrified that one of her best friends would hate her just because she was gay. It gave me some inkling of what it must be like for so many gay people, and my heart goes out to those who have to deal with the ignorant and bigoted on a regular basis. You are far more courageous than I suspect I could be in that situation.
She said that if she told me, I might hate her. At this point I started worrying, thinking that she had committed some horrible crime. That would have been very out of character for her, but I couldn't think of anything else that might give her that idea. I asked her again what had happened.
She said she was a lesbian.
Now, I wasn't aware of that beforehand, but it didn't strike me as a big deal so I waited for the actual bad news to follow. When she didn't say anything else, I replied "That's it?"
And it was. Somehow she was terrified that one of her best friends would hate her just because she was gay. It gave me some inkling of what it must be like for so many gay people, and my heart goes out to those who have to deal with the ignorant and bigoted on a regular basis. You are far more courageous than I suspect I could be in that situation.
Cosmic Bus
pristine morning snow
ZephyrFate said:
You always seem to have such a strange, abrasive view of things.
I'm quite sure the purpose of a 'coming out' day is not to recruit closeted gays to sashay up to their family and friends, waving that fabulous faggotry in everyone's face. It's about encouragement and inspiration for those that haven't yet been able to make that leap... It's about leading by example, about unification. That positive image doesn't mean you better come out TODAY or FORGET IT. Punishment: three hundred and sixty five more days of hiding who you are! For someone who isn't out, the knowledge that so many may have used today as a successful opportunity to be honest about themselves with the people in their lives can be the necessary trigger in leading to a comfortable, more satisfied existence, whether that's happens today, tomorrow or six months from now.
ZephyrFate
Banned
I enjoy providing a different point of view. I just think if you want to come out, do so. No need to make a semi-holiday out of it. :lol
Dead Prince
Banned
IDK. having a party with gifts for it sounds great. with the gift being lots of guys at your disposal :lolZephyrFate said:
With that. I did put up a status for the whole coming out day thing. IDK if it was that comment or something else I noticed someone unfriended me on facebook :lol
ZephyrFate
Banned
I would like a one Ryan Phillippe for Christmas please.
That's the only gift I want for being gay.
That's the only gift I want for being gay.
Souldriver
Member
Well, your attitude should be the one if the world was perfect. I fully understand the view, and I don't treat my sexuality all that different from straight people (who don't need a special day or parade either).ZephyrFate said:
However, even if for us it seems trivial and unimportant, for many people all over this world being gay, and coming out for it, is a difficult situation. Whether they haven't accepted themselves all that well, or their surroundings aren't supportive (to downright hostile), then I suddenly understand why all the special treatment and fanfare can be necessary. Youtube videos saying "it gets better", claiming a special flag for your community, organizing parades, prides and parties, creating help groups and call centers, clinging on to icons, ... It all seems unnecessary in ordinary conditions, but if in reality, all of those things helps even the tiniest fraction of gay youth come to terms with themselves, as does their surroundings, it's all worth it.
But that doesn't mean that being gay means that you have to partake in any of it. If you are in a situation where your sexuality is just a fact and nothing more, or it's just nobodies business at all, special treatment of said sexuality isn't necessary either.
Edit: wait, gifts are involved? That changes everything!
ZephyrFate
Banned
I understand its notions for others, but I want to try and live in a world where sexuality is not a basis for difference but a bond of connection, and that's my sole perspective as a gay man who came out by only telling a few people (and then everyone in my school knew from there) and had no need to make it any more special than that. Just a minute change in my day-to-day life, nothing more.
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