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[Kataploom]

I hear your arguments.

But why is there such a difference with Japan prices then ? Switch 2 is 343$ there. Yes, the Yen is currently devaluated, but that argument doesn't matter when :

• We all know Nintendo never sell their console at a loss. NEVER.
• We all know Nintendo sells like gangbusters in Japan and are first on that market
• And we don't see the same difference in price between PS5 and Switch 2 in Japan compared to USA/EUROPE

So please explain to me why in Japan standard PS5 is ¥79,980 (559$) (original launch price was ¥66,980 (464$)), and the Switch 2 price is 49,980 yen (343$) ? Which is more than 200$ discrepancy.

In USA, standard PS5 was launched at 499$, now priced 549$. Switch 2 is priced 449$. So 100$ discrepancy.
In Europe, standard PS5 original price was 499€, now priced at 549€ and Switch 2 is 469€. So 80 € discrepancy.

You don't see a problem there ?

Even taking tariffs in consideration for USA market, there's no way a simple region lock could cost that much (of course) ? It's software, we all know that.

Only conclusion left is Nintendo is overpricing Switch 2 USA and Europe, because Japanese price is still sold with benefit.

Switch 2 is overpriced and absolutely not cutting edge. It's like saying 5080 is cutting edge because of DLSS frame gen and equivalent to 4090. Not even in your dreams. But at least Nvidia invested a lot in AI to implement DLSS. Not Nintendo.

What if Japan price is carrying a loss while international price fills the gap so we're basically subsidizing Japan's Switches? So basically Switch 2 price was originally set to $400 in all markets and then Yen went downhill more than expected and they had to rely on subsidizing Japan price because $50 more is not that big of a deal in US but $50 less is in Japan

 

[Variahunter]

they probably sell it at a loss in Japan because they can't afford to lose market share.
which is also why they even have the cheaper Japan only variant.
outside of Japan they don't have to do that, and given the weak yen, they probably think they can make their losses back from international sales given the exchange rate.

I highly doubt it. They're already first in Japan with astounding domination, and no one is making a portable console other than them.
When you're first, you would at least price accordingly to your position, or take advantage of it. They're not making a revolution rather than a evolution this time, so the risk of a failure is way lower than any of their others console launch.

They usually never sell at a loss. So aside from making your assumption here, and given the technology inside it, everybody suspects that they are overpricing in USA/Europe.

 

[Variahunter]

What if Japan price is carrying a loss while international price fills the gap so we're basically subsidizing Japan's Switches? So basically Switch 2 price was originally set to $400 in all markets and then Yen went downhill more than expected and they had to rely on subsidizing Japan price because $50 more is not that big of a deal in US but $50 less is in Japan

Even IF (and that's a big if) they were selling at a loss in Japan, why should USA/Europe compensate for that ?

The difference is so big, that it's almost a certainty that they're overpricing it a lot in USA/Europe.

Second, in USA 50$ is not a lot, but in Europe it is, same as Japan.

 

[Variahunter]

From Iwata: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20095125.amp

I think hardware costs more than people realise.

Didn't remember this one. But that was the gamepad's fault. Nothing inside the Wii U was costly at that time.

 

[Kataploom]

Even IF (and that's a big if) they were selling at a loss in Japan, why should USA/Europe compensate for that ?

The difference is so big, that it's almost a certainty that they're overpricing it a lot in USA/Europe.

Second, in USA 50$ is not a lot, but in Europe it is, same as Japan.

Well, that would be a question for Nintendo, not for me, but that's a very common tactic in many markets.

For example, in Colombia the public services are paid depending on where you live, the expensive zones subsidize the less expensive zones with the difference of the former getting better services and the later not having probably the best that could be offered.

You may think: "But that's not my problem that others can't pay for it, why do I have to subsidize a toy for them?". And yes, you're right (that's the reason why many people hate socialism, btw), but that's is probably how they set the prices. They're probably losing in Japan and recovering it in games and from international customers that pay a little more.

 

[Baemono]

Didn't remember this one. But that was the gamepad's fault. Nothing inside the Wii U was costly at that time.

Yeah, I think the same. A tablet with a camera as base controller + console for 299, not the best combinaison

 

[Stevonidas]

It's using an old Samsung node with much lower density. It's cheap.

 

[ADiTAR]

There's more than just hardware that needs to be taken into account. Transport, marketing, advertising. All cost differently in different countries.

 

[Woopah]

Even IF (and that's a big if) they were selling at a loss in Japan, why should USA/Europe compensate for that ?

The difference is so big, that it's almost a certainty that they're overpricing it a lot in USA/Europe.

Second, in USA 50$ is not a lot, but in Europe it is, same as Japan.

The gap is that big because of the yen.

When Nintendo launched the Switch in 2017, they followed the same $1 = 100 yen price strategy that they, Microsoft and Sony have followed for decades.

But now, Switch only costs $206 in Japan, much lower than in the US. Not because Nintendo cut the price for Japan, but because the yen has weakened so much since 2017.

Edit: Basically, Nintendo would usually have priced Switch 2 at $450 / 44,980 yen. But the yen's weakness makes that Japan price impossible for a multilanguage Switch 2.

Didn't remember this one. But that was the gamepad's fault. Nothing inside the Wii U was costly at that time.

Possibly, but it still shows Nintendo is willing to sell hardware at a loss in certain situations. Same with the emergency 3DS price cut.

The current yen weakness is one such situation.

 

[Variahunter]

The gap is that big because of the yen.

When Nintendo launched the Switch in 2017, they followed the same $1 = 100 yen price strategy that they, Microsoft and Sony have followed for decades.

But now, Switch only costs $206 in Japan, much lower than in the US. Not because Nintendo cut the price for Japan, but because the yen has weakened so much since 2017.

Edit: Basically, Nintendo would usually have priced Switch 2 at $450 / 44,980 yen. But the yen's weakness makes that Japan price impossible for a multilanguage Switch 2.

Possibly, but it still shows Nintendo is willing to sell hardware at a loss in certain situations. Same with the emergency 3DS price cut.

The current yen weakness is one such situation.

No, this is exactly why I made the comparison with PS5 prices in Japan and rest of the world.
They are similar or very close.

Yen theory is good, but you should also know that costs also applies in Japan with all of the products, not just consoles.
Would you say then that PS5 is overpriced now or was overpriced at launch in Japan ? I highly doubt it, as nobody never made any comments on this.

Hence, the price difference between Switch 2 and PS5 between regions is still questionnable. That's also without taking into account prices in rest of the world like brasil, where console are usually out of reach for a majority of people but prices stay high.

Well, that would be a question for Nintendo, not for me, but that's a very common tactic in many markets.

For example, in Colombia the public services are paid depending on where you live, the expensive zones subsidize the less expensive zones with the difference of the former getting better services and the later not having probably the best that could be offered.

You may think: "But that's not my problem that others can't pay for it, why do I have to subsidize a toy for them?". And yes, you're right (that's the reason why many people hate socialism, btw), but that's is probably how they set the prices. They're probably losing in Japan and recovering it in games and from international customers that pay a little more.

Reality here is that you found an explanation out of your hat with this "Nintendo sells at a loss in Japan", because no one knows.

Right now, only facts are we're getting scammed compared to Japan, because in general, purchasing power in Japan and in the richest countries in Europe is rather similar relatively to net wages.
It's even worse in the poorest countries of Europe, but somehow Switch 2 is still 469€ in those countries...

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

What if Japan price is carrying a loss while international price fills the gap so we're basically subsidizing Japan's Switches? So basically Switch 2 price was originally set to $400 in all markets and then Yen went downhill more than expected and they had to rely on subsidizing Japan price because $50 more is not that big of a deal in US but $50 less is in Japan

Exactly what it is.

 

[Woopah]

No, this is exactly why I made the comparison with PS5 prices in Japan and rest of the world.
They are similar or very close.

Yen theory is good, but you should also know that costs also applies in Japan with all of the products, not just consoles.
Would you say then that PS5 is overpriced now or was overpriced at launch in Japan ? I highly doubt it, as nobody never made any comments on this.

Hence, the price difference between Switch 2 and PS5 between regions is still questionnable. That's also without taking into account prices in rest of the world like brasil, where console are usually out of reach for a majority of people but prices stay high.

Reality here is that you found an explanation out of your hat with this "Nintendo sells at a loss in Japan", because no one knows.

Right now, only facts are we're getting scammed compared to Japan, because in general, purchasing power in Japan and in the richest countries in Europe is rather similar relatively to net wages.
It's even worse in the poorest countries of Europe, but somehow Switch 2 is still 469€ in those countries...

When PS5 launched in 2020, Sony used the same $1 = 100 yen price strategy that has been standard in the video for decades. At that point, it was not overpriced.

But then then the yen weakened significantly.

Sony's reaction was to prioritise their margins and sell fewer units, by having a Japan-specific price rise for PlayStation products. So now PS products in Japan are overpriced.

Selling fewer units in Japan would disastrous for Nintendo because of how important the market is to them. So their reaction was to create this Japanese-only model

You're not being scammed compared to Japan, because people living in Japan aren't paid in dollars but in yen. A Japanese-only Switch 2 is not more affordable for someone living in Japan than a Switch 2 is for someone living in the US.

The Switch 2 launch price in Japan is the same as the PS5 standard launch price. In the US, Switch 2 is cheaper than the PS5 standard launch price.

 

[Variahunter]

You're not being scammed compared to Japan, because people living in Japan aren't paid in dollars but in yen. A Japanese-only Switch 2 is not more affordable for someone living in Japan than a Switch 2 is for someone living in the US.

Huh yes it is... because you have to compare it to the price of living in Japan, and basically the purchasing power.

It's not because your money (YEN) is devaluated internationally that miraculously all the products dropped their prices in Japan in YEN.
Living in Japan still costs the same and it takes a very long time to adjust, and it will not even apply to all types of products, but mostly imported products.

So again, your assumption is just false here.

As an example here : I visited Japan 10 years ago, and last year too. Prices in YEN for food/restaurants are basically the same. Same for hotel.
Only difference is the change, 10 years ago the change was completely in the reverse situation. So as a tourist, your purchasing power is much stronger than 10 years ago. But as a resident ? More or less the same, considering average incomes don't see a big evolution, especially in Japan.

If anything, old video games have seen an enormous rise in Japan. It's almost comical to see a 10 times rise for games that could be purchased for 100 yens in the same location (yes because those prices vary a lot depending on the location). But I'll admit it's more because a lot of "tourists" or "foreign reseller" have bought too much old games there so they did this to prevent it.

The Switch 2 launch price in Japan is the same as the PS5 standard launch price. In the US, Switch 2 is cheaper than the PS5 standard launch price.

No, that's absolutely not how it works.

 

[Woopah]

Huh yes it is... because you have to compare it to the price of living in Japan, and basically the purchasing power.

It's not because your money (YEN) is devaluated internationally that miraculously all the products dropped their prices in Japan in YEN.
Living in Japan still costs the same and it takes a very long time to adjust, and it will not even apply to all types of products, but mostly imported products.

So again, your assumption is just false here.

As an example here : I visited Japan 10 years ago, and last year too. Prices in YEN for food/restaurants are basically the same. Same for hotel.
Only difference is the change, 10 years ago the change was completely in the reverse situation. So as a tourist, your purchasing power is much stronger than 10 years ago. But as a resident ? More or less the same, considering average incomes don't see a big evolution, especially in Japan.

I agree with all of this. What you're saying here is exactly my argument.

In terms of purchasing power, it is not noticeably cheaper for someone living in Japan to buy a Switch 2 in Japan than it is for someone living in the US to buy a Switch 2 in the US. So people in the US aren't being scammed.

No, that's absolutely not how it works.

What do you mean that's not how it works? What I said is a fact.

In the US, PS5 launched at $499 while Switch 2 launches at $449.

In Japan, PS5 launched at 49,980 and the Switch 2 will also launch at 49,980.

 

[Variahunter]

I agree with all of this. What you're saying here is exactly my argument.

In terms of purchasing power, it is not noticeably cheaper for someone living in Japan to buy a Switch 2 in Japan than it is for someone living in the US to buy a Switch 2 in the US. So people in the US aren't being scammed.

No again , you read it wrong, because you only take US into account, whereas in Europe, salaries are significantly lower than USA, but Switch 2 (469€) is even more expensive than in USA.
So how do you explain it for Europe ? Are european not getting scammed ?

Or are you purposefully avoiding the European situation I already explained ? Which is exactly why I suspect Nintendo to overprice their console, at least according to the prices of each region.

What do you mean that's not how it works? What I said is a fact.

In the US, PS5 launched at $499 while Switch 2 launches at $449.

In Japan, PS5 launched at 49,980 and the Switch 2 will also launch at 49,980.

Because you compare a 5 year old product that was technologically pretty good for 2020, to one that is overpriced for the technology inside.

 

[Woopah]

No again , you read it wrong, because you only take US into account, whereas in Europe, salaries are significantly lower than USA, but Switch 2 (469€) is even more expensive than in USA.
So how do you explain it for Europe ? Are european not getting scammed ?

Or are you purposefully avoiding the European situation I already explained ? Which is exactly why I suspect Nintendo to overprice their console, at least according to the prices of each region.


Because you compare a 5 year old product that was technologically pretty good for 2020, to one that is overpriced for the technology inside.
Because you compare a 5 year old product that was technologically pretty good for 2020, to one that is overpriced for the technology inside.

What I said was still 100% accurate. The Switch 2 launch price in Japan is the same as the PS5 standard launch price. In the US, Switch 2 is cheaper than the PS5 standard launch price.

In Europe, the Switch 2 is also cheaper than the PS5 launch price was.

Your original point was that the Switch 2 was being sold at a profit in Japan, and therefore it was overpriced in the US and Europe. I'm explaining why it is very likely that the platform is not being being sold at a profit in Japan.

The big difference between the $ price in Japan and elsewhere is because of the weakness of the yen. Not because Nintendo decided to change the industry standard pricing strategy and be super cheap in Japan.

The people being scammed by Switch 2 prices are those where Nintendo acts through a third party distributor who also takes a cut (like Nordics or Latin America).

 

[Kataploom]

No, this is exactly why I made the comparison with PS5 prices in Japan and rest of the world.
They are similar or very close.

Yen theory is good, but you should also know that costs also applies in Japan with all of the products, not just consoles.
Would you say then that PS5 is overpriced now or was overpriced at launch in Japan ? I highly doubt it, as nobody never made any comments on this.

Hence, the price difference between Switch 2 and PS5 between regions is still questionnable. That's also without taking into account prices in rest of the world like brasil, where console are usually out of reach for a majority of people but prices stay high.

Reality here is that you found an explanation out of your hat with this "Nintendo sells at a loss in Japan", because no one knows.

Right now, only facts are we're getting scammed compared to Japan, because in general, purchasing power in Japan and in the richest countries in Europe is rather similar relatively to net wages.
It's even worse in the poorest countries of Europe, but somehow Switch 2 is still 469€ in those countries...

I never said it was the absolute truth, just my thoughts and it makes total sense. If you feel scammed then don't get the console, you'll feel better with your decision that way, there are more important stuff to pay in life

 

[Same ol G]

No again , you read it wrong, because you only take US into account, whereas in Europe, salaries are significantly lower than USA, but Switch 2 (469€) is even more expensive than in USA.
So how do you explain it for Europe ? Are european not getting scammed ?

Or are you purposefully avoiding the European situation I already explained ? Which is exactly why I suspect Nintendo to overprice their console, at least according to the prices of each region.


Because you compare a 5 year old product that was technologically pretty good for 2020, to one that is overpriced for the technology inside.

Salaries are not significantly lower in Europe i don't know where you got that from, Europe is not a single country.
Also our prices include taxes, go add up your taxes and see whats left of that difference.

 

[Mozza]

I mean we all know Switch Pro was cancelled and replaced by the OLED model

I do not think we do. Only core fans were convinced of this. The OLED was what Nintendo tend to do. Release a new model with a newer design and larger improved screen.

 

[Baemono]

I do not think we do. Only core fans were convinced of this. The OLED was what Nintendo tend to do. Release a new model with a newer design and larger improved screen.

Nintendo tend to do this + a more powerful model. They did it with the Game Boy Color, the DSi, the New 3DS. The Switch is the first Nintendo handheld without a more powerful revision.

All the leaks were mentioning a more powerful chip + oled screen + improved storage + a 4k output capable dock with ethernet port. We got everything besides the more powerful chip.

Devs were asked to have their games « 4k ready ».

Supposeldy they canceled the late 2021 release of a pro model to focus on a late 2023-mid 2024 release of the Switch 2, which is also said to be pushed to mid-2025 as the games were not ready (and we can see it is a bit the case, they don't have a lot of games to show 1st party wise)

 

[Mozza]

There is no way that switch 2 is going to be the best place to play third party games, unless you want convenience and on the go.

Which is what it does not need. The Switch 2's sales will be driven by Nintendo's own first party output just like the original Switch. The third party support is a bonus and the people who buy titles like Cyberpunk will not be graphic and framerate obsessives.

 

[Mozza]

Nintendo tend to do this + a more powerful model. They did it with the Game Boy Color, the DSi, the New 3DS. The Switch is the first Nintendo handheld without a more powerful revision.

All the leaks were mentioning a more powerful chip + oled screen + improved storage + a 4k output capable dock with ethernet port. We got everything besides the more powerful chip.

Devs were asked to have their games « 4k ready ».

Supposeldy they canceled the late 2021 release of a pro model to focus on a late 2023-mid 2024 release of the Switch 2, which is also said to be pushed to mid-2025 as the games were not ready (and we can see it is a bit the case, they don't have a lot of games to show 1st party wise)

Still no proof only assumptions based on leaks. The Switch pro leaks came from core gamers being unhappy with the original Switch performance level. And started very shortly after the original Switch launch. Nintendo were always going to release a cheaper handheld only option. And an upgrade with a larger screen.

The leakers had to backtrack and make excuses when none of this came true.

 

[Mozza]

Never is going to be enough for the consoles warriors for obvious reasons. For me i can't wait to see what devs can achieve with this hardware, but everything looks promising.

Most of those console warriors will still end up buying one. To go alongside their PS5, Series X and gaming P.C. Why they think they represent the mass market always baffles me.

 

[Mozza]

Crazy thing is we already see games like Cyberpunk, Street Fighter, Yakuza, Hogwarts Legacy, etc etc, already running better than they did on PS4 Pro and in some cases better than XSS and it's still not enough.

I've been extremely impressed and happy with the power of the Switch 2 shown off so far. Prime 4 @4k looks so goddamn good.

Some have to cling to their notion that the Switch 2 is not good enough. While most will simply enjoy their new console and games. For most this will be a simple case of what it offers over the original Switch. Which is a massive leap whichever way you slice it.

 

[Baemono]

Still no proof only assumptions based on leaks.

Of course, but it's the same as the Switch 2 leaks, which were correct. Heck, even the Switch 1 leaks were correct back then.

I guess we'll discover the truth 15 to 20 years later from a random interview of a dev or someone at Nintendo.

 

[Mozza]

Yup but peoples on social media already running with snapshot of graph and claiming its worse than Steam deck

Damage already done

Thankfully the games will do the talking soon enough

Was not around for couple of days but this is shocking stuff btw



WTF is this new model

Not sure how any of this will affect Switch 2 sales to be honest. This is niche core hobby game stuff. Outside of this nobody is in the slightest bit interested or even aware it's being discussed in the first place. To the masses this is a new improved Switch to buy. Because Nintendo told them it was redesigned from the ground up and has more power.

 

[Mozza]

How many switches duct taped together is that?

10...

Nintendo Switch 2 Leveled Up With NVIDIA AI-Powered DLSS and 4K Gaming

The Nintendo Switch 2 takes performance to the next level, powered by a custom NVIDIA processor featuring an NVIDIA GPU with dedicated RT Cores and Tensor Cores for stunning visuals and AI-driven enhancements.

blogs.nvidia.com

 

[jufonuk]

10...

Nintendo Switch 2 Leveled Up With NVIDIA AI-Powered DLSS and 4K Gaming

The Nintendo Switch 2 takes performance to the next level, powered by a custom NVIDIA processor featuring an NVIDIA GPU with dedicated RT Cores and Tensor Cores for stunning visuals and AI-driven enhancements.

blogs.nvidia.com

 

[Mozza]

Glad I read this. Got me more hyped for Switch 2!!!! Just need to secure that preorder....

Same here. The hardware looks nice too. I will be there on launch day having a blast exploring Mario Kart World on my LG OLED. Then will come on here for a laugh.

 

[crazyriddler]

it is a cutting edge system tho, at least compared to its competition in the handheld market.
AMD is years behind Nvidia, so even a 4 year old Nvidia GPU design easily competes with the newest AMD mobile hardware.

the Switch 1 was the same. even tho the Tegra X1 was already 2 years old at the time of the Switch 1 launch, it still basically outperformed any competition on the market that Nintendo could have used instead. even the newest and best Snapdragon chips in 2017 were outperformed by the Tegra X1 and would have been way more expensive on top of that.

the best Snapdragon mobile chip in 2017 was the Snapdragon 835, which released AFTER the Switch 1 in mid 2017, while the Switch released in the first quarter. the 835 has roughly the same GPU FLOPS (actually slightly less. 363 GFLOPS vs 393 GFLOPS) at its maximum rated clock speed of 710 Mhz.
so the 2015 Nvidia TX1 outperformed the latest and best APU from Qualcomm in 2017

it's not much different now. even the new Z2 Extreme from AMD is only maybe a tiny bit more powerful when running at clock speeds that don't empty the battery in less than 1h, but lacks decent ML acceleration and decent RT acceleration, while also only being available in systems that cost twice as much.

Thank you! These are facts that have been ignored for all these years with the Switch 1 and now it's happening the same with the Switch 2, console warriors are getting really stupid and lacking in knowledge just to fit their narratives.

 

[Mozza]

Of course, but it's the same as the Switch 2 leaks, which were correct. Heck, even the Switch 1 leaks were correct back then.

I guess we'll discover the truth 15 to 20 years later from a random interview of a dev or someone at Nintendo.

I still think the Switch Pro rumour was more of a core fans wet dream than anything else.

 

[The ninja farmer]

I still think the Switch Pro rumour was more of a core fans wet dream than anything else.

I'm not sure about that. I can see your point though.

But with 2 out of 3 consoles having pro versions at the time. It's easy to see how all eyes turned to Nintendo to see what they would do (and being Nintendo they done their own thing. Minor updates and a new screen)

Folks were talking pretty hard, at the time. about an upgraded and more powerful switch pro. To the point that specific chips were mentioned and being discussed openly

A fair bit of which. Now seems to match on what the switch 2 is offering

To me they were either extremely leaky in their switch 2 planning (and this is Nintendo we are talking about) and had a near full design ready to go, back then.

Or for reasons of cost, market share and performance, projected margins or something else. They planned this update and realised it was better suited to being a switch 2, rather than a pro. So to me they basically had two consoles ready to go and chose one of them. This then put the bigger upgrade onto a different track and being a switch 2

I also wondered if the cost of the switch 2 has actually increased since those days to build and that's another reason that Samsungs 8nm is being used ? Which does make a potential mid gen refresh a viable option if they can get to say the equivalent of tsmc's 5/4 nm node ? If not, then it's another minor bump, some more storage and an oled

I'm not saying they haven't made design or system changes since then. But to me, they chose option 2 and other than struggling for games. They made a plan to launch just as the switch sales dipped under a certain level. Which were still pretty much going gangbusters at the time. And history has shown that recent console trends, out with that of Microsoft. Are to go long on a consoles life, if it sells above a certain number. After all, why leave money on the table ? Especially with chip costs and die shrinks going in very much opposite directions at the moment

Just my thoughts. (As someone that has seen many consoles launch and even more fail to, or never get out of the vaporware or prototype stage)

 

[Baemono]

I still think the Switch Pro rumour was more of a core fans wet dream than anything else.

Yes, and also no. The first rumours were in 2019 were a revision was rumoured to have a better X1 chip that would allow better clock speed or a better battery life (but not both). At the end, we got the 2019 revision with the X1+, which is more efficient power-wise, but its clock speed is being limited by Nintendo for better battery life.

I mean look at this article, this is exactly what we got, besides the better chip.

Every Pre-E3 Nintendo Switch Pro Rumor So Far

With the arrival of E3 season comes the usual flock of gaming rumors, but perhaps some of the most interesting pertain to the Nintendo Switch Pro.

gamerant.com

In terms of aesthetics, the Switch Pro is rumored to be the same size as the existing Nintendo Switch, however, a reduced bezel allows for a 7-inch Samsung OLED Display, an upgrade from the Switch's 6.2-inch display. While an upgrade on the existing Switch kickstand is reportedly also in the offing, with the Switch Pro's kickstand resembling more so that of the Surface Pro's. Both the screen size and the kickstand of the original Switch were problematic features for fans, so these upgrades will no doubt go down a treat.

 

[Mozza]

Yes, and also no. The first rumours were in 2019 were a revision was rumoured to have a better X1 chip that would allow better clock speed or a better battery life (but not both). At the end, we got the 2019 revision with the X1+, which is more efficient power-wise, but its clock speed is being limited by Nintendo for better battery life.

I mean look at this article, this is exactly what we got, besides the better chip.

Every Pre-E3 Nintendo Switch Pro Rumor So Far

With the arrival of E3 season comes the usual flock of gaming rumors, but perhaps some of the most interesting pertain to the Nintendo Switch Pro.

gamerant.com

So basically very predictable stuff with the pro chip tagged on. Sounds totally reasonable.

 

[Mozza]

I'm not sure about that. I can see your point though.

But with 2 out of 3 consoles having pro versions at the time. It's easy to see how all eyes turned to Nintendo to see what they would do (and being Nintendo they done their own thing. Minor updates and a new screen)

Folks were talking pretty hard, at the time. about an upgraded and more powerful switch pro. To the point that specific chips were mentioned and being discussed openly

A fair bit of which. Now seems to match on what the switch 2 is offering

To me they were either extremely leaky in their switch 2 planning (and this is Nintendo we are talking about) and had a near full design ready to go, back then.

Or for reasons of cost, market share and performance, projected margins or something else. They planned this update and realised it was better suited to being a switch 2, rather than a pro. So to me they basically had two consoles ready to go and chose one of them. This then put the bigger upgrade onto a different track and being a switch 2

I also wondered if the cost of the switch 2 has actually increased since those days to build and that's another reason that Samsungs 8nm is being used ? Which does make a potential mid gen refresh a viable option if they can get to say the equivalent of tsmc's 5/4 nm node ? If not, then it's another minor bump, some more storage and an oled

I'm not saying they haven't made design or system changes since then. But to me, they chose option 2 and other than struggling for games. They made a plan to launch just as the switch sales dipped under a certain level. Which were still pretty much going gangbusters at the time. And history has shown that recent console trends, out with that of Microsoft. Are to go long on a consoles life, if it sells above a certain number. After all, why leave money on the table ? Especially with chip costs and die shrinks going in very much opposite directions at the moment

Just my thoughts. (As someone that has seen many consoles launch and even more fail to, or never get out of the vaporware or prototype stage)

Still not buying it. Most Nintendo hardware has pretty dated chips at launch. By the time the revisions come out you probably can't get all the exact same stuff anyway. So slight upgrades are inevitable. There is a massive difference between this and Nintendo actually releasing a pro console.

 

[Buggy Loop]

T239 tape-out in 2021 is not some « old technology » by any means when it's some hybrid SM between Ampere and Ada. That's like saying Ada is old technology because it tape-out in 2022, I mean sure? But what's really better for core graphic rendering? Most of the innovations of full AD102 SMs or Blackwell were RT path tracing focused or neural rendering high cost effects which are not gonna be in an handheld power envelope anyway.

Biggest bottleneck for switch 2 release I think is the microSD express which released last year

Also low nm fabs are important for chipsets which push the silicon to the limits in clock speeds or power density and this is not how Nintendo/Nvidia approached this chipset or ever do in fact. This is downclocked a lot even compared to its 8nm peers in AGX Orin for thermal limits. Peoples have estimated that the impact of lower nodes would not affect this kind of V/Hz curve they are at that much like say an apple chipset screaming max clocks. Don't forget that foundry claims of performance improvements from node to node are the gates pushed to limits, not every design if any would approach those claims as there's also a bunch of components that don't even shrink that small.

 

[Baemono]

So basically very predictable stuff with the pro chip tagged on. Sounds totally reasonable.

The right screen size and its manufacturer, the oddly specific new kickstand, highly predictable ?

 

[Mozza]

The right screen size and its manufacturer, the oddly specific new kickstand, highly predictable ?

The original kickstand was awful so not that much of a stretch. My point is there was no pro upgrade planned. If you think there was and it was canned due to a chip shortage etc. Then so be it... No biggie either way.

 

[Variahunter]

Salaries are not significantly lower in Europe i don't know where you got that from, Europe is not a single country.
Also our prices include taxes, go add up your taxes and see whats left of that difference.

But they are for educated people. I live in Europe and I know the market, both in USA and Europe in my line of work and plenty of others. But I agree that low wages are more or less the same.
That's why you see a lot of educated people, not particularly rich people per se, in USA, not flinching when Nvidia rise their price for their premium cards.
Just compare how much a Doctor/Physician can make in USA and Europe, and get a good laugh.

 

[Variahunter]

I never said it was the absolute truth, just my thoughts and it makes total sense. If you feel scammed then don't get the console, you'll feel better with your decision that way, there are more important stuff to pay in life

I already bought it.
I'm a Nintendo fan since SNES, and I had something like 320€ in gift card expiring at the end of 2025, so it was a no brainer.
Admitedly, without the gift card and DK Bananza, I would have waited. But even this strategy isn't good anymore since manufacturer don't drop their price nowadays, they even raise them...

What I said was still 100% accurate. The Switch 2 launch price in Japan is the same as the PS5 standard launch price. In the US, Switch 2 is cheaper than the PS5 standard launch price.

In Europe, the Switch 2 is also cheaper than the PS5 launch price was.

Your original point was that the Switch 2 was being sold at a profit in Japan, and therefore it was overpriced in the US and Europe. I'm explaining why it is very likely that the platform is not being being sold at a profit in Japan.

The big difference between the $ price in Japan and elsewhere is because of the weakness of the yen. Not because Nintendo decided to change the industry standard pricing strategy and be super cheap in Japan.

The people being scammed by Switch 2 prices are those where Nintendo acts through a third party distributor who also takes a cut (like Nordics or Latin America).

No again, my first post explained it in details why the gap isn't solely based on the yen.
But you just choose to not listen at this point, and you keep dismissing the Europe comparison.

I don't see the point in continuing this debate with you.

 

[ThaGuy]

I thought the reason why the japan switch 2 is cheaper was because its region locked compared to the more expensive version thats not.

 

[moogman]

T239 tape-out in 2021 is not some « old technology » by any means when it's some hybrid SM between Ampere and Ada. That's like saying Ada is old technology because it tape-out in 2022, I mean sure? But what's really better for core graphic rendering? Most of the innovations of full AD102 SMs or Blackwell were RT path tracing focused or neural rendering high cost effects which are not gonna be in an handheld power envelope anyway.

Biggest bottleneck for switch 2 release I think is the microSD express which released last year

Also low nm fabs are important for chipsets which push the silicon to the limits in clock speeds or power density and this is not how Nintendo/Nvidia approached this chipset or ever do in fact. This is downclocked a lot even compared to its 8nm peers in AGX Orin for thermal limits. Peoples have estimated that the impact of lower nodes would not affect this kind of V/Hz curve they are at that much like say an apple chipset screaming max clocks. Don't forget that foundry claims of performance improvements from node to node are the gates pushed to limits, not every design if any would approach those claims as there's also a bunch of components that don't even shrink that small.

Also, the low nm nodes are in demand from Apple, Nvidia, AMD and Qualcomm designs. If you've got a product that you want to make a lot of quickly you don't want to be competing and paying extra for fab space. Samsung's 8nm probably hasn't been in huge demand since the 30 series so Nintendo will get it to themselves and at a good price.

 

[The ninja farmer]

I thought the reason why the japan switch 2 is cheaper was because its region locked compared to the more expensive version thats not.

That's more for taking it out of Japan I think. A software lock, might be the first thing console hackers will target

It's their home market and I would think the pricing is to make sure they remain number 1 at home and the default option for the average Japanese gamer. The rest of the world. Well I'm sure they will subsidise Japan. This is Nintendo after all

it wasn't unusual for consoles to be cheaper in their home turf. Then more expensive in different markets (ps1 springs to mind, amongst a few). Or a console would take a year, or longer to get around the world, once it was released in Japan (n64, the nes and snes). But that doesn't seem to happen as much now (not cost, more a focussed availability in a given market)

 

[Kataploom]

I already bought it.
I'm a Nintendo fan since SNES, and I had something like 320€ in gift card expiring at the end of 2025, so it was a no brainer.
Admitedly, without the gift card and DK Bananza, I would have waited. But even this strategy isn't good anymore since manufacturer don't drop their price nowadays, they even raise them...

No again, my first post explained it in details why the gap isn't solely based on the yen.
But you just choose to not listen at this point, and you keep dismissing the Europe comparison.

I don't see the point in continuing this debate with you.

That's normal with raising inflation, I know because I've lived in two countries with that situation and people expecting prices to freeze or go down for years blows my mind sometimes

 

[Woopah]

I already bought it.
I'm a Nintendo fan since SNES, and I had something like 320€ in gift card expiring at the end of 2025, so it was a no brainer.
Admitedly, without the gift card and DK Bananza, I would have waited. But even this strategy isn't good anymore since manufacturer don't drop their price nowadays, they even raise them...

No again, my first post explained it in details why the gap isn't solely based on the yen.
But you just choose to not listen at this point, and you keep dismissing the Europe comparison.

I don't see the point in continuing this debate with you.

I talked about Europe in my last post.

These are the launch prices for Switch and Switch 2 in different regions, and the difference between them.

Europe: €329.99 / €469.99 - +43%
Japan: 29,980 / 49,980 - +69%
US: $299 / $449 - +50%

In comparison with the Switch or PS5 launch, the Switch 2 is not cheaper in Japan than in Europe or the US.

Switch 2 only looks cheap in Japan if you look at in dollars. But that is because of the weakness of the yen.

In your original post you asked people to explain the massive gap that now exists between PS5 and Switch 2 in Japan. That gap exists purely because Sony did two huge price rises, mostly because of the yen. It costs 60% more now than it did at launch.

So Switch 2 isn't overpriced in Europe. The PS5 is overpriced in Japan.

Edit: I hope you do continue this discussion, because I'm enjoying it. I'm not meaning to ignore Europe.

Maybe this will help me understand your point. Do you consider the standard PS5 to be overpriced in Europe, either at launch or now?

 

[Deerock71]

they mad switch 2 will get third parties ahahaha

This is the bottom line in a nutshell.

 

[meech]

I've already told y'all this thing was genuinely the Switch 1 Pro probably targeting Holiday '21 or 1H '22. But ballooning wafer prices and chip shortages spooked the fuck out of the Miser King Nintendo, who decided to sit on it for years and release it as a fake Switch 2 on a now deprecated node they could get for fire sale pricing.

A increase of raw power by 7x with a more modern architecture is next gen performance, not "pro". Ps5 Pro is not even 3x compared with the base Ps5.

 

[kevboard]

A increase of raw power by 7x with a more modern architecture is next gen performance, not "pro". Ps5 Pro is not even 3x compared with the base Ps5.

uh, the Pro is not even 1.5x lol

 

[Deerock71]

A increase of raw power by 7x with a more modern architecture is next gen performance, not "pro". Ps5 Pro is not even 3x compared with the base Ps5.

 

[Woopah]

I thought the reason why the japan switch 2 is cheaper was because its region locked compared to the more expensive version thats not.

Switch 2 has to be cheaper in Japan dollar-wise in order to be a mass market device.

$450 is a mass market price in the US, and it used to be in the Japan. The weakening yen changed that.

The fall of the yen is the main reason the PS5 price has gone up 60% in Japan.