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[lestar]

Crazy thing is we already see games like Cyberpunk, Street Fighter, Yakuza, Hogwarts Legacy, etc etc, already running better than they did on PS4 Pro and in some cases better than XSS and it's still not enough.

I've been extremely impressed and happy with the power of the Switch 2 shown off so far. Prime 4 @4k looks so goddamn good.

too many people in the denial stage yet

 

[Dontkidyourselfjimmy]

 

[Horseganador]

A chip designed in 2021 for a machine launching in 2025, with technology from several generations ago from Nvidia and obsolete 8-10nm manufacturing from Samsung, and on top of that, some Nintendo fans are defending it. It's incredible how low their standards are. Then they'll ask Sony and MS for the latest and greatest.

 

[LordOcidax]

A 2021 chip design in a machine that launches in 2025

Wait until you discover that PS6 chip design is from 2023 and is going to come out in 2028…

 

[notseqi]

bad for third party, but i cant wait for what first party is going to deliver. look at their output on the switch. they managed to deliver awesome games this whole gen with a supermarket tablet.

Wouldnt older tech be superb for third party, allowing established teams with proper output go a bit further with their own engines?
There hasnt been much progress graphics wise anyways, though I do admit that I am not going past CP2077 in 1440p with all details and RT myself.

 

[MrCunningham]

A 2021 chip design in a machine that launches in 2025

The analysis shows that the main Nvidia APU is a hybrid of 10NM and 8NM components. But... who knows if that is the final design, or how old this motherboard sample is.

 

[LordOcidax]

The analysis shows that the main Nvidia APU is a hybrid of 10NM and 8NM components. But... who knows if that is the final design, or how old this motherboard sample is.

In one month we are going to know.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Wait until you discover that PS6 chip design is from 2023 and is going to come out in 2028…

Sure sure. Like PS5 Pro did not contain tech that released this year on PC (RT from RDNA4 for example) and XSX|S and PS5 did not contain RDNA2 around the same time it shipped on PC. Come on… chill out…

 

[Zathalus]

Wait until you discover that PS6 chip design is from 2023 and is going to come out in 2028…

The PS6 SoC is only taping out end of this year and is based on UDNA which is not even released yet.

 

[Kataploom]

The PS6 SoC is only taping out end of this year and is based on UDNA which is not even released yet.

Let's say PS6 comes out in 2027 or 2028, UDNA design will be finished at most later this year, that will make PS6 have a SoC design from 2025, making it 2 or 3 years old when it comes out, just what the TX1 was when Switch 1 came out and not too much younger than T239 design will be when Switch 2 launches (Nov. 2021 to Jun. 2025).

And that only if UDNA design wasn't already finished, but by the way AMD talks about it they already have the design done since mid or late last year.

 

[GigaBowser]

In one month we are going to know.

they mad switch 2 will get third parties ahahaha

ok they dont have garphics as goord as 60 pound ps5 pro buuuuuuuuuut i can play sitting on fat ass if sony makes good portimble i buy to bookmarked

 

[Panajev2001a]

Let's say PS6 comes out in 2027 or 2028, UDNA design will be finished at most later this year, that will make PS6 have a SoC design from 2025, making it 2 or 3 years old when it comes out, just what the TX1 was when Switch 1 came out and not too much younger than T239 design will be when Switch 2 launches (Nov. 2021 to Jun. 2025).

And that only if UDNA design wasn't already finished, but by the way AMD talks about it they already have the design done since mid or late last year.

You are joking now come on. Especially comparing it to TX1.

 

[Kataploom]

This guy is saying T239 is actually an Ada Lovelace GPU but with Ampere cores, does anyone else here agree with this? AFAIK the chip it's based on has a GPU which Nvidia already stated is Ampere based.

 

[Bitstream]

Sure sure. Like PS5 Pro did not contain tech that released this year on PC (RT from RDNA4 for example) and XSX|S and PS5 did not contain RDNA2 around the same time it shipped on PC. Come on… chill out…

He simultaneously believes that nintendo (of all companies lol) is delivering cutting edge nvidia chips (when they really just bought off the shelf) and that sony (who is partnered with AMD to co-design new hardware architecture) is going to show up to next gen with 3 PS3s taped together

 

[Kataploom]

You are joking now come on. Especially comparing it to TX1.

I just don't get why the Switch 2 having a late 2021 SoC design in mid 2025 is a problem when it has an Ampere + Ada GPU and is used to say "Nintendo always use old tech", but Switch 1 SoC design was as old when Switch 1 released as UDNA SoC design will be when PS6 comes out... And only one is being trashed because of it while the other is ok and a hardware revolution, etc., it makes no sense to me...

 

[LordOcidax]

This guy is saying T239 is actually an Ada Lovelace GPU but with Ampere cores, does anyone else here agree with this? AFAIK the chip it's based on has a GPU which Nvidia already stated is Ampere based.

Nvidia didn't said is Ampere, they clearly said is Custom made for the Switch 2. Also they stated the Switch 2 is 10X the power of the Switch 1, so clock speed can be higher than the leak. The leak is 7X, the official Nvidia info is 10X

Nintendo Switch 2 Leveled Up With NVIDIA AI-Powered DLSS and 4K Gaming

The Nintendo Switch 2 takes performance to the next level, powered by a custom NVIDIA processor featuring an NVIDIA GPU with dedicated RT Cores and Tensor Cores for stunning visuals and AI-driven enhancements.

blogs.nvidia.com

 

[kevboard]

This guy is saying T239 is actually an Ada Lovelace GPU but with Ampere cores, does anyone else here agree with this? AFAIK the chip it's based on has a GPU which Nvidia already stated is Ampere based.

daily reminder that SMS64 is retarded and didn't even know how screen space reflections work.

 

[GigaBowser]

switch 2 will DERSTOY steam deck in most games performence avatar bet?

 

[LordOcidax]

daily reminder that SMS64 is retarded and didn't even know how screen space reflections work.

He is a not reliable source, but that info came directly from the guy making the tear down. The Chinese guy clearly state is a Custom made GPU, like Nvidia confirmed. So is an Ampere/Ada Lovelace GPU.

 

[KeplerL2]

This guy is saying T239 is actually an Ada Lovelace GPU but with Ampere cores, does anyone else here agree with this? AFAIK the chip it's based on has a GPU which Nvidia already stated is Ampere based.

Ampere was confirmed ages ago https://github.com/NVIDIA/open-gpu-...2ee6834670c6684cb9/classes/3d/README.txt#L100

 

[LordOcidax]

Ampere was confirmed ages ago https://github.com/NVIDIA/open-gpu-...2ee6834670c6684cb9/classes/3d/README.txt#L100

It's a CUSTOM Ampere/Ada Lovece GPU. Not a simple Ampere GPU. It's confirmed in the video…

 

[kevboard]

He is a not reliable source, but that info came directly from the guy making the tear down.

yes, I just like pointing out how dumb that guy is and just as a general warning.

but the thing about these architecture debates is that on console this usually doesn't really apply anyway.
like, is the PS5 RDNA2? well, not really if we compare it to PC cards... but it kinda is due to some features... and in the end it's not really relevant in most scenarios, with the exceptions being games like Doom that use Tier 2 VRS.

the difference between it having Ampere Cuda Cores or Ada Cuda Cores isn't really that interesting, especially outside of standard PC GPUs.
most of the bigger changes that Ada offered aren't really interesting if we are talking about a smaller mobile chip that goes off-standard anyway.

also I am pretty sure I've read when the RTX40 series released that Ada is actually slightly worse flop for flop than Ampere. not sure if those were only early tests with bad drivers or anything, but I'm pretty sure that's the case.

either way, Ampere and Ada are in many ways almost the same. the big upgrade from Ampere to Ada was the L2 cache... unless that L2 cache change is applicable for the T239 as well, it's entirely irrelevant if it's Ampere or Ada

 

[LordOcidax]

yes, I just like pointing out how dumb that guy is and just as a general warning.

but the thing about these architecture debates is that on console this usually doesn't really apply anyway.
like, is the PS5 RDNA2? well, not really if we compare it to PC cards... but it kinda is due to some features... and in the end it's not really relevant in most scenarios, with the exceptions being games like Doom that use Tier 2 VRS.

the difference between it having Ampere Cuda Cores or Ada Cuda Cores isn't really that interesting, especially outside of standard PC GPUs.
most of the bigger changes that Ada offered aren't really interesting if we are talking about a smaller mobile chip that goes off-standard anyway.

also I am pretty sure I've read when the RTX40 series released that Ada is actually slightly worse flop for flop than Ampere. not sure if those were only early tests with bad drivers or anything, but I'm pretty sure that's the case.

either way, Ampere and Ada are in many ways almost the same. the big upgrade from Ampere to Ada was the L2 cache... unless that L2 cache change is applicable for the T239 as well, it's entirely irrelevant if it's Ampere or Ada

I don't really think that Nvidia is going to add something to the GPU chip that doesn't have any relevance… That doesn't make any sense and also cost money… If they add something from the Ada Lovelace architecture to the GPU it's going to have some impact in the performance.

"With 1,000 engineer-years of effort across every element — from system and chip design to a custom GPU, application programming interfaces (APIs) and world-class development tools — the Nintendo Switch 2 brings major upgrades."

 

[Astray]

Lol at the weird copium in this thread. Anyone who cares about graphics already bought either a PC, a PS5 or a Series S, if you're buying a Switch 2 to play Cyberpunk 2077 for the 1st time in 2025 then you need to save up for a time machine instead.

Nintendo of all companies is not buying cutting-edge tech (the Switch 2 is margined the fuck up, this device is expensive for what it is), and certainly are not gonna push the power envelope at super low wattage.

 

[GigaBowser]

ram 8533MTs fast

 

[cinnamonandgravy]

A chip designed in 2021 for a machine launching in 2025, with technology from several generations ago from Nvidia and obsolete 8-10nm manufacturing from Samsung, and on top of that, some Nintendo fans are defending it. It's incredible how low their standards are. Then they'll ask Sony and MS for the latest and greatest.

and the controllers cost $100.

but honestly, it's more than many were expecting from the switch2.

really goes to show how much games matter.

 

[Lagspike_exe]

very disappointing that they went with 8nm, if they paid more for 4nm fabrication it's a very very capable chip and could have been pushed harder.

You seem to be new to Nintendo hardware. This is pretty much consistent with their hardware design in the last two + decades. Older architecture and fab tech, with some customizations.

 

[kevboard]

I don't really think that Nvidia is going to add something to the GPU chip that doesn't have any relevance… That doesn't make any sense and also cost money… If they add something from the Ada Lovelace architecture to the GPU it's going to have some impact in the performance.

"With 1,000 engineer-years of effort across every element — from system and chip design to a custom GPU, application programming interfaces (APIs) and world-class development tools — the Nintendo Switch 2 brings major upgrades."

I have now watched the video, and he's not even talking about the actual makeup of the cuda cores themselves, he's only talking about how they are placed on the die...

so this is less than a nothingburger. it's just Ampere with a weird layout.


also having watched the video now, I didn't really like how he benchmarked the Steam Deck, as he took the max clock speeds of both CPU and GPU, when in reality the Deck basically never can max out both and dynamically adjusts the GPU and CPU speed according to load... that should be mentioned in such a benchmark graph.

 

[GigaBowser]

also having watched the video now, I didn't really like how he benchmarked the Steam Deck, as he took the max clock speeds of both CPU and GPU, when in reality the Deck basically never can max out both and dynamically adjusts the GPU and CPU speed according to load... that should be mentioned in such a benchmark graph.

games performence derstoy steam deck yes??

 

[Mr Moose]

ram 8533MTs fast

JEDEC Publishes New and Updated Standards for Low Power Memory Devices Used in 5G and AI Applications | JEDEC

www.jedec.org

 

[LordOcidax]

I have now watched the video, and he's not even talking about the actual makeup of the cuda cores themselves, he's only talking about how they are placed on the die...

so this is less than a nothingburger. it's just Ampere with a weird layout.


also having watched the video now, I didn't really like how he benchmarked the Steam Deck, as he took the max clock speeds of both CPU and GPU, when in reality the Deck basically never can max out both and dynamically adjusts the GPU and CPU speed according to load... that should be mentioned in such a benchmark graph.

Imagine making a new design for a chip for nothing… That's not like moving lego pieces for god sake

 

[Buggy Loop]

Buggy Loop told ya

I was working with T234 Ampere sizes and it didn't make sense to stay 8nm with that information. I estimated the Billion transistors count pretty much on the mark for this unveilling putting it at ~11B.

The T234 as is would not have fit in 8nm 207mm^2 even with the heavy cutbacks of I/O - DLA and the 75% SMs.

And I was right for that with that call that its not feasible with the information we had and the basis of T234.

But who predicted T234 → T239's -22% GPU SMs size with some kind of Ada lovelace arrangement? Nobody. Not you, not me, nobody. So now yes, on paper you can fit it on 8 nm. But before this information it was not mathematically possible and that was my argument.

 

[Buggy Loop]

I have now watched the video, and he's not even talking about the actual makeup of the cuda cores themselves, he's only talking about how they are placed on the die...

so this is less than a nothingburger. it's just Ampere with a weird layout.


also having watched the video now, I didn't really like how he benchmarked the Steam Deck, as he took the max clock speeds of both CPU and GPU, when in reality the Deck basically never can max out both and dynamically adjusts the GPU and CPU speed according to load... that should be mentioned in such a benchmark graph.

Simulated Switch 2 with downclocked 2050 is just falling into the same trap as DF did. You'll never have this downclocked GA10x on PC with PC overhead and without all the advantages of APU and custom nature of this chipset in a simulated PC scenario. Just like A78AE simulated cannot be the multithreaded performance of A78C because A78AE are two clusters while A78C is one 8-core cluster with better multi-threading, ARM's very own words.

Steam deck has to run PC bloat but while it has high GHz CPU prone to making good CPU benchmarks, the APU is limited to 15 Watts and together with CPU + GPU it will never achieve those benchmarks. Saying that from simulated benchmarks that its weaker than Steam deck is completely mental and out of touch. While we know roughly the clock range of Switch 2 and they're pumping out at continuous conditions simultaneously as they are already far away from say AGX Orin's maximum CPU clocks or what would be possible to boost for A78. If they unchained the CPU for CPU benchmarks then it would be an entirely different picture.

 

[LordOcidax]

Simulated Switch 2 with downclocked 2050 is just falling into the same trap as DF did. You'll never have this downclocked GA10x on PC with PC overhead and without all the advantages of APU and custom nature of this chipset in a simulated PC scenario. Just like A78AE simulated cannot be the multithreaded performance of A78C because A78AE are two clusters while A78C is one 8-core cluster with better multi-threading, ARM's very own words.

Steam deck has to run PC bloat but while it has high GHz CPU prone to making good CPU benchmarks, the APU is limited to 15 Watts and together with CPU + GPU it will never achieve those benchmarks. Saying that from simulated benchmarks that its weaker than Steam deck is completely mental and out of touch.

Agree with you, but at least the Chinese guy was more clear than DF saying that the benchmark is a rough method and that Switch 2 is going to perform a lot better due to various factors.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Agree with you, but at least the Chinese guy was more clear than DF saying that the benchmark is a rough method and that Switch 2 is going to perform a lot better due to various factors.

Yup but peoples on social media already running with snapshot of graph and claiming its worse than Steam deck

Damage already done

Thankfully the games will do the talking soon enough

Was not around for couple of days but this is shocking stuff btw



WTF is this new model

 

[StereoVsn]

Wait until you discover that PS6 chip design is from 2023 and is going to come out in 2028…

It won't be. Most likely it's going to be UDNA based which is why we won't see PS6 till 2028.

 

[GigaBowser]

Yup but peoples on social media already running with snapshot of graph and claiming its worse than Steam deck

Damage already done

Thankfully the games will do the talking soon enough

Was not around for couple of days but this is shocking stuff btw



WTF is this new model

ahahaha damage??

 

[LordOcidax]

Yup but peoples on social media already running with snapshot of graph and claiming its worse than Steam deck

Damage already done

Thankfully the games will do the talking soon enough

Was not around for couple of days but this is shocking stuff btw



WTF is this new model

They have been saying for a long time, nothing have changed, the Chinese guy was pretty clear and the games are going to speak for themselves… I just can't wait to see what DF is going to do when they do side by side comparisons with the base PS4.

 

[LordOcidax]

It won't be. Most likely it's going to be UDNA based which is why we won't see PS6 till 2028.

AMD is going to design and launch the a chip in the same year? Must be alien tech… Incredible.

 

[StereoVsn]

AMD is going to design and launch the a chip in the same year? Must be alien tech… Incredible.

It's 2025, so still 3.5 years till say 2028 Holiday season. They got another 1.5 - 2 years to finalize.

 

[Kataploom]

A chip designed in 2021 for a machine launching in 2025, with technology from several generations ago from Nvidia and obsolete 8-10nm manufacturing from Samsung, and on top of that, some Nintendo fans are defending it. It's incredible how low their standards are. Then they'll ask Sony and MS for the latest and greatest.

It's 2025, so still 3.5 years till say 2028 Holiday season. They got another 1.5 - 2 years to finalize.

By these people standards, PS6 is going to release outdated already.

The thing they don't know is: All consoles do. Lol.

 

[StereoVsn]

By these people standards, PS6 is going to release outdated already.

The thing they don't know is: All consoles do. Lol.

I think it's going to be surprisingly up to date. I suspect pricing will be rough though.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

It's a very old and cheap APU tech-wise and even DLSS is somewhat kneecapped due to low number of CUDA cores.

But I've expected nothing more from Nintendo.

It's a clear generational leap from the Switch, which is all it needed to be. Don't really know what else there is to say, honestly

 

[__SteakDeck__]

switch 2 will DERSTOY steam deck in most games performence avatar bet?

Yayyyyyy. Congratulations on beating a 3 year handheld. Actually 4 years if you remember that Steam Deck was supposed to release in 2021, but got delayed.

 

[Kataploom]

It's a clear generational leap from the Switch, which is all it needed to be. Don't really know what else there is to say, honestly

Look, for me Switch 1 graphics are good enough, if they give me that but with a decent IQ and 60 fps Zelda and Xenoblade, I won't give a shit about anything else lol

 

[LordOcidax]

I think it's going to be surprisingly up to date. I suspect pricing will be rough though.

No way, a 3-4 years old chip design is going to be old tech already…

 

[GigaBowser]

techmical research 3.094272 TFLOPS docked mode

Yayyyyyy. Congratulations on beating a 3 year handheld. Actually 4 years if you remember that Steam Deck was supposed to release in 2021, but got delayed.

switch 2 way betters for the monies pal optermized games annnnnnd you dont have to tonker around with settings

In the US in 2025, the Steam Deck prices generally range from $399 for the 256GB LCD model to $649 for the 1TB OLED model.

 

[nordique]

Much closer gap to next gen consoles vs switch to last gen consoles. There's still a gap but it's smaller.

 

[NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt]

The moving goalpost is not going to end Trust me… I miss Tom Sawyer and Sweetooth.

I don't

 

[DenchDeckard]

bad for third party, but i cant wait for what first party is going to deliver. look at their output on the switch. they managed to deliver awesome games this whole gen with a supermarket tablet.

Yup. Its going to be bonkers.