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[android]

Scientlogy is essential a pyramid scheme posing as a religion. You don't have to pay a fee to be in the Catholic, Buddhist or Jewish religions. As you can see it costs you 200,000 to 400,000 dollars to achieve enlightenment.
(chart of Scientolgy levels- wouldn't show up as a image.)
http://www.xenu.net/archive/media/time-pg3-4b.html

Here is the TIME article it was from.
http://www.xenu.net/archive/media/time910605.html

 

[ManaByte]

Scientlogy is essential a pyramid scheme posing as a religion. You don't have to pay a fee to be in the Catholic, Buddhist or Jewish religions. As you can see it costs you 200,000 to 400,000 dollars to achieve enlightenment.

Here is the TIME article it was from.
http://www.xenu.net/archive/media/time910605.html

They also call that a cult, especially how brainwashed people seem to be about the "religion".

 

[ManaByte]

Ok. How can anyone NOT think it's a cult? From the chart:

O.T. 8
Cost $11,140, plus accommodations.
Time required: a few weeks
The ultimate answer to everything. There are no known defectors from O.T. 8, which is offered only aboard Scientology's yacht, but the "answer" is rumored to be that Hubbard is God. O.T. 9 texts are said to be written but not released.

The guy who formed the "religion" is claiming to be God to its followers. That's a CULT, people.

 

[Dan]

From a sociological perspective, all religions form out of cult structures. Of course, they also define cults in a different manner than the common dictionary definition (ie. innovative non-schismatic groups which make a distinct break with religious tradition of the surrounding community). *shrugs*

There were reports when the tent went up on the set that Spielberg was privately super pissed about it, but he didn't want to anger the cultist starring in the movie.

Out of curiousity, where do you find these reports? You've always got some gossip about these shoots.

 

[ManaByte]

From a sociological perspective, all religions form out of cult structures. Of course, they also define cults in a different manner than the common dictionary definition (ie. innovative non-schismatic groups which make a distinct break with religious tradition of the surrounding community). *shrugs*


Out of curiousity, where do you find these reports? You've always got some gossip about these shoots.

When the news first hit about his tent on the set, Drudge linked to two stories. One talked about the tent and the other was talking about how Spielberg wasn't happy about it being there because the crew weren't happy that Cruise was forcing his "religion" on everyone.

 

[OpinionatedCyborg]

Cults are religions not widely accepted or practiced by mainstream society. The negative connotations the word holds come from the wacko cults that've committed crimes over the years. The Church of Latter Day Saints, Scientific Christians, Luthers, etc all were once considered cults until they gained a larger following. In 100 or so years, Scientology will have etched itself permanently into society, erasing any doubt whether it is or isn't a cult.

 

[Hitokage]

Cults are religions not widely accepted or practiced by mainstream society. The negative connotations the word holds come from the wacko cults that've committed crimes over the years. The Church of Latter Day Saints, Scientific Christians, Luthers, etc all were once considered cults until they gained a larger following. In 100 or so years, Scientology will have etched itself permanently into society, erasing any doubt whether it is or isn't a cult.

Arguing over the semantics of the word "cult"(no qualification) is pointless since usage has stripped it of any significant meaning. Destructive cults, however, can be of ANY size and their determining characteristic is their degree of control over their members, and in a sense don't even have to be religious.

On the other hand, you did say "considered"... which leaves open to suggestion that what the general public believes and what actually is are not one and the same.

 

[OpinionatedCyborg]

Main Entry: cult
1 : formal religious veneration : WORSHIP
2 : a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents
3 : a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents
4 : a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator <health cults>
5 a : great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad b : a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion

By whom? It's completely subjective, and therefore doesn't prove whether Scientology's a cult or not. I might be a Christian, yet I don't label other religions, which are filled with 'false idols' and 'false Gods' as cults, in the negative sense of the word.

 

[OpinionatedCyborg]

Arguing over the semantics of the word "cult"(no qualification) is pointless since usage has stripped it of any significant meaning. Destructive cults, however, can be of ANY size and their determining characteristic is their degree of control over their members, and in a sense don't even have to be religious.

OK, fair enough, though 'degree of control over their members' doesn't distinguish Scientology from Christianity, or any other religion for that matter. The whole point of Christianity is to follow God, and his holy servants' words to the best of your abilities. If that's nto controlling, I don't know what is.

 

[OpinionatedCyborg]

...

I'm talking about how the word "cult" is actually understood in the context of such groups as Scientology and you cherry pick a contextless dictionary definition on me and expect it to be proscriptive?

Ha, I actually started the dictionary post before I'd seen your reply--got caught up with a few IM's, which slowed me down.

 

[Hitokage]

[Bah, had realized you weren't replying to me, but was similarly delayed in correcting it.]

OK, fair enough, though 'degree of control over their members' doesn't distinguish Scientology from Christianity, or any other religion for that matter. The whole point of Christianity is to follow God, and his holy servants' words to the best of your abilities. If that's nto controlling, I don't know what is.

There lies part of the issue: who determines what God's will is and under what scope? It's about people controlling people, not a tacit deity supposedly controlling people.

 

[OpinionatedCyborg]

There lies part of the issue: who determines what God's will is and under what scope? It's about people controlling people, not a tacit deity supposedly controlling people.

I agree. History has shown us that humankind will manipulate religion for earthly wants. Wars have been fought, and continue to be fought, over our interpretation of holy texts. Whether you're in a cult, or a larger religion that has mainstream acceptance, human involvement ensures that exact opposite of your religion's teachings will be fulfilled. People of all religions and faiths do things under their God's name to further their own cause; Scientology is no exception.

 

[Hitokage]

I agree. History has shown us that humankind will manipulate religion for earthly wants. Wars have been fought, and continue to be fought, over our interpretation of holy texts. Whether you're in a cult, or a larger religion that has mainstream acceptance, human involvement ensures that exact opposite of your religion's teachings will be fulfilled. People of all religions and faiths do things under their God's name to further their own cause; Scientology is no exception.

You're talking about arguing over differences of religious opinion, the existence of which means people usually act as their own interpeters to varying degrees. I'm talking about those who make others surrender their own free will, and it's primarily a psychological issue, not religious. Framing it in strictly religious terms leads to the same blind generalizations, because you only see how Scientology believes in weird scifi shit, not how they lie to potential recruits to sucker them in and to the general public to get PR to make it easier.

Point me to a nonfundamentalist christian sect in which you don't have full access to all their true beliefs and practices prior to joining, and cannot leave without harassment.

 

[OpinionatedCyborg]

You're talking about arguing over differences of religious opinion, the existence of which means people usually act as their own interpeters to varying degrees. I'm talking about those who make others surrender their own free will, and it's a psychological issue, not religious.

Ah, so are you implying that Scientology uses brainwashing techniques on its members, and is a cult for that reason, or are you simply discussing aspects of certain cults? Because if Scientology's brainwashing its members, I'd like to see a few links...outside of the blatantly biased xenu.net or whatever . Being able to form, and join a religion, is the very definition of free will in the free world. They have a right to build spaceshuttles out of cardboard and tinker toys, and we have the right to point out how stupid they are. But if you're going to accuse them of doing something against the law, or not being a 'religion' (wtf), then back up your opinion with some empirical evidence.

Short aside: Critisizing critics of Scientology doesn't mean I support it myself. I criticize George Bush, Rush Limbaugh, and Eminem, but that doesn't mean I support terrorism, Michael Moore, or the Spice Girls. As wacked out as Scientology is, I don't think it's fair to label it as dangerous or brainwashing unless you have sources to back your claims up. L. Ron HUbbard was a nutcase, no doubt, but all of his followers aren't necessarily (although the extremists probably are, as is the case with most religious fundamentalists/extreists).

Framing it in strictly religious terms leads to the same blind generalizations, because you only see how Scientology believes in weird scifi shit, not how they lie to potential recruits to sucker them in and to the general public to get PR to make it easier.

Point me to a nonfundamentalist christian sect in which you don't have full access to all their true beliefs and practices prior to joining.

You've got a point here. I'm not well versed on religion by any stretch of the imagination, but regardless, I can't think of one.

 

[Hitokage]

Ah, so are you implying that Scientology uses brainwashing techniques on its members, and is a cult for that reason, or are you simply discussing aspects of certain cults? Because if Scientology's brainwashing its members, I'd like to see a few links...outside of the blatantly biased xenu.net or whatever . Being able to form, and join a religion, is the very definition of free will in the free world. They have a right to build spaceshuttles out of cardboard and tinker toys, and we have the right to point out how stupid they are. But if you're going to accuse them of doing something against the law, or not being a 'religion' (wtf), then back up your opinion with some empirical evidence.

If you're just going to dismiss critical information as "biased" then what's the point.

 

[OpinionatedCyborg]

If you're just going to dismiss critical information as "biased" then what's the point.

I'll take critical info, but I'd rather have it from a moderate website, that's all.

 

[Hitokage]

L. Ron HUbbard was a nutcase, no doubt, but all of his followers aren't necessarily (although the extremists probably are, as is the case with most religious fundamentalists/extreists).

It's the multi-level organization, not individual followers, that you need to address. It's very structure is that those "extremists" are the ones on the top of the ladder while those less so are either further down the ladder so the level of indoctrination is less or are being given special treatment(eg. celebs).

You won't find me cursing mormons, only mormonism.

 

[OpinionatedCyborg]

You won't find me cursing mormons, only mormonism.

Both of which happen to be religions

And the IRS gives Scientology tax breaks afforded to religions...I'm convinced.

This thread does raise many interesting questions. At what point does an organization stop being religious and start being a purely commercial venture? Is the leader of a religion/cult, who collects money from his members, being disingenuous if he/she sincerely believes what they're preaching? Should faith and logic be discussed in the same breath?

I don't know; I'm quite conflicted on Scientology. On one hand, I believe it's a religion, and everyone should have the right to practice it, or whatever the hell else they want to. On the other, it was created by what some consider to be a pathological liar with a penchant for attention whoring.

 

[Instigator]

The guy who formed the "religion" is claiming to be God to its followers. That's a CULT, people.

I'm no fan of scientology but if claiming to be God makes you part of a cult, then what does claiming to be the son of God make you? I see no difference in that respect. Just like someone to be claiming to be a prophet or to have a special connection to a super being is not inherently wrong in itself and is, in fact, how Islam, Judaism and Christianity started in the first place.

I think you should have focused on the money schemes and attempts at infiltrating governments to attack scientology and rather than the teachings themselves.

 

[android]

The biggest complaint against Scientology doesn't seem to be about its beliefs, but that its only propose seems to be the taking money from its faithful. L Ron Hubbard was once quoted as saying (and Scientologists deny he said it tooth and nail)
“I’d like to start a religion. That’s where the money is.”
- L. Ron Hubbard to Lloyd Eshbach, in 1949; quoted by Eshbach in OVER MY SHOULDER: REFLECTIONS ON A SCIENCE FICTION ERA, Donald M. Grant Publisher. 1983
And thats what they do. And that is the biggest problem. They charge for their faith. They tell people that they won't find out the big end secret unless they fork over massive sums of money first. This makes Scientology nothing more than pyramid scheme with tax exemption (not sure if they had that taken away though) that acts as a publicity and networking tool for its celebs. The problem with scientology isn't its doctrine or their right to practice it, but the fact that they wring the poor people at the bottom out of their life savings, while the rich ones at the top rake in the cash. Say what you will about the Catholic Church and its hoarding of riches, but at least you don't have to spend one penny to find out it's doctrine or practice it's faith.

 

[PS2 KID]

I found the interviewer to be a prick. If you read the questions he/she presented to Cruise and Spielberg it's the equivalent to journalistic trolling.

Just look at his/her NON SCIENTOLOGY related questions. He/She obviously has a chip(s) on his/her shoulder.

SPIEGEL: Your film "War of the Worlds" is named after the futuristic novel of the same name by H.G. Wells, written in 1898. At the end of the novel it says that Earth is "no longer a fenced-in and safe place to live." Doesn't this sentence exactly describe the feeling that Americans have had about life since September 11?

SPIEGEL: But the film is set almost exclusively in the United States. Does it really describe a global catastrophe?

SPIEGEL: Aren't you afraid that audiences in some parts of the world may even applaud when they see Americans lying on the ground?

SPIEGEL: Mr. Spielberg, your plans to make a film of "War of the Worlds" date back to the early 1990s. Would you have made the film if September 11 had not happened?

SPIEGEL: Won't this film actually heighten that sense of vulnerability?

SPIEGEL: Is it legitimate for a film maker to not just make use of the real fears of an audience for a film, but actually heighten them too?

SPIEGEL: With "Jaws" you, Mr. Spielberg, took the fun out of bathing for millions of people. Did you never feel guilty about that?

SPIEGEL: When Hollywood's most powerful director and its greatest star get together to shoot one of the most elaborate films of all time, everyone expects a box-office hit. Does that weigh on you?

SPIEGEL: Wouldn't it be a disappointment if "War of the Worlds" grossed less than "Titanic" (1998), the most successful film of all time so far?

 

[Instigator]

He may be a prick, but the following questions are fair game, IMHO:

SPIEGEL: But the film is set almost exclusively in the United States. Does it really describe a global catastrophe?

SPIEGEL: Aren't you afraid that audiences in some parts of the world may even applaud when they see Americans lying on the ground?

SPIEGEL: Mr. Spielberg, your plans to make a film of "War of the Worlds" date back to the early 1990s. Would you have made the film if September 11 had not happened?

 

[Zaptruder]

I found the interviewer to be a prick. If you read the questions he/she presented to Cruise and Spielberg it's the equivalent to journalistic trolling.

Just look at his/her NON SCIENTOLOGY related questions. He/She obviously has a chip(s) on his/her shoulder.

The last question is stupid, but the Jaws question more than makes up for the rest of that!

Besides, Hollywood types really don't need constant cocksucking from people they deal directly with all the time.

 

[Gruco]

And the IRS gives Scientology tax breaks afforded to religions...I'm convinced.

From the Time article...

During the early 1970s, the IRS conducted its own auditing sessions and proved that Hubbard was skimming millions of dollars from the church, laundering the money through dummy corporations in Panama and stashing it in Swiss bank accounts. Moreover, church members stole IRS documents, filed false tax returns and harassed the agency's employees. By late 1985, with high-level defectors accusing Hubbard of having stolen as much as S200 million from the church, the IRS was seeking an indictment of Hubbard for tax fraud. Scientology members "worked day and night" shredding documents the IRS sought, according to defector Aznaran, who took part in the scheme. Hubbard, who had been in hiding for five years, died before the criminal case could be prosecuted.

One legal goal of Scientology is to bankrupt the opposition or bury it under paper. The church has 71 active lawsuits against the IRS alone. One of them, Miscavige vs. IRS, has required the U.S. to pro- duce an index of 52,000 pages of documents.

So far the agency giving Scientology the most grief is the IRS, whose officials have implied that Hubbard's successors may be looting the church's coffers. Since 1988, when the U.S. Supreme Court upheld the revocation of the cult's tax-exempt status, a massive IRS probe of church centers across the country has been under way. An IRS agent, Marcus Owens, has estimated that thousands of IRS employees have been involved. Another agent, in an internal IRS memorandum, spoke hopefully of the "ultimate disintegration" of the church. A small but helpful beacon shone last June when a federal appeals court ruled that two cassette tapes featuring conversations between church officials and their lawyers are evidence of a plan to commit "future frauds" against the IRS.

The IRS and FBI have been debriefing Scientology defectors for the past three years, in part to gain evidence for a major racketeering case that appears to have stalled last summer. Federal agents complain that the Justice Department is unwilling to spend the money needed to endure a drawn-out war with Scientology or to fend off the cult's notorious jihads against individual agents. "In my opinion the church has one of the most effective intelligence operations in the U.S., rivaling even that of the FBI," says Ted Gunderson, a former head of the FBI's Los Angeles office.

Now perhaps the Time article is too biased to trust, as it's saying mean things about Scientology and all, but I see a teensy bit of a difference there between Scientology and most other religious organizations...

 

[ManaByte]

Now perhaps the Time article is too biased to trust, as it's saying mean things about Scientology and all, but I see a teensy bit of a difference there between Scientology and most other religious organizations...

What other religion REQUIRES its followers to pay $200,000-$400,000 in order to achieve enlightenment?

 

[whytemyke]

wow... you can tell Cruise has been in situations countless times where he has had to defend his stupid cult. Nobody would know the specific amount of legal cases regarding their church in Germany. EVER. unless of course you were the pope. in which case most of them probably emanated from you.

but yeah. "We've won over 50 court cases in Germany..."

...study much, mr. cruise?

 

[Jacobi]

WTF don't you people learn about Scientology in school ? Because you should. These people sell their poor trapped believers useless machine, which have probably a cost of like 20 Dollars for 5000 Dollars. If you are outside of it, they try to make it look attractive to you and they'll use their brain-washing methods to get you trapped. And it's very difficult to get out of that organisation. They even got private lesson companys to get new believers which are innocent pupils.

Why doesn't Tom Cruise see the negative sides of it ? That's very easy : He means more to the organisation than an Average not much earning believer. So they treat him very nice and they don't even try to rob him.

The whole actual meaning of Scientology is to rob the believers and make the 10 members of a special council in America rich. I think Hubbard did even write a book about that.

 

[OpinionatedCyborg]

What other religion REQUIRES its followers to pay $200,000-$400,000 in order to achieve enlightenment?

OpinionatedCyborgology does. My time is precious, and my rates are a reflection of that.

WTF don't you people learn about Scientology in school ? Because you should. These people sell their poor trapped believers useless machine

Referring to the electro meter Hubbard invented to help purge Scientologists minds of pain and useless memories? It's a religious tool--how can we define what is or isn't useless?

Here's the disclaimer the electro-mater comes with:
By itself, this meter does nothing. It is solely for the guide of Ministers of the Church in Confessionals and pastoral counselling. The Electro-meter is not medically or scientifically capable of improving the health or bodily function of anyone and is for religious use by students and Ministers of the Church of Scientology only.

How are the scientologists "poor trapped believers" anyways? Did anyone force them to fork over the cash to join the Scientology movement? No, they made the decision out of their own free will. How much you want to spend, and how deep you want to plunge into Scientology is entirely up to you.

Calling these members of Scientology "poor trapped believers" implies that there are leaders at the top of Scientology in it for their own personal gain. Any proof? Can you show that the people at the top of the nutbag foodchain are any less devoted to the religion than those at the bottom? To elicit a scam, you need people consciously propagating scandal, and I've seen no evidence proving that.

I do see an overpriced religion that places a large burden on its followers for no good reason. It's a terrible religion, but a religion nonetheless.

which have probably a cost of like 20 Dollars for 5000 Dollars.

So right now you're seeing Scientology = cult and making shit up.

If you are outside of it, they try to make it look attractive to you and they'll use their brain-washing methods to get you trapped. And it's very difficult to get out of that organisation.

Please explain exactly how they brainwash average citizens into joining their religion, and how it's difficult to leave the organization. I've seen accounts from ex-Scientologists saying leaving the organization was hardly an ordeal (physically leaving, not the spiritual turmoil you must go threw before tossing a belief aside), and that brainwashing did not occur. And WTF does "They even got private lesson companys to get new believers which are innocent pupils," mean?

Why doesn't Tom Cruise see the negative sides of it ? That's very easy : He means more to the organisation than an Average not much earning believer. So they treat him very nice and they don't even try to rob him.

The whole actual meaning of Scientology is to rob the believers and make the 10 members of a special council in America rich. I think Hubbard did even write a book about that.

Again, you're saying that Scientology leaders are scammers themselves who're consciously manipulating others for their own personal profit. Proof?

 

[OpinionatedCyborg]

FOR RELEASE: 12/31/97 IR-97-50

WASHINGTON -- A recent news article in the Wall Street Journal discussed the
recognition by the Internal Revenue Service of the tax exempt status of the Church of
Scientology. The Church of Scientology was recognized as tax exempt after
establishing that it was an organization operated exclusively for religious and charitable purposes. Recognition was based upon voluminous information provided by the Church regarding its financial and other operations to the Internal Revenue Service. Closing agreements are frequently used to resolve tax disputes between the
Internal Revenue Service and taxpayers. A closing agreement dealing with the
taxpayer's tax affairs is the confidential tax information of the taxpayer and may not be
disclosed by the IRS without proper authorization. The unauthorized disclosure of a
closing agreement by the Internal Revenue Service would be a violation of Internal
Revenue Code Section 6103. The Office of the Chief Inspector of the Internal Revenue
Service is charged with investigating unauthorized disclosures of confidential tax
information.
X X X

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-news/ir-97-50.txt

Now perhaps the Time article is too biased to trust, as it's saying mean things about Scientology and all, but I see a teensy bit of a difference there between Scientology and most other religious organizations...

All religious organizations have been tainted with financial scandal at one point or time, but we don't questiont their validity because they hvae mainstream appeal. The above news release from the IRS shows that Scientology is, in fact, recognized as a religion in light of the, "voluminous information provided by the Church regarding its financial and other operations to the Internal Revenue Service."

 

[OpinionatedCyborg]

One more thing: to practice Scientology, one does not need to officially join the religion and pay their way through the ranks. In light of financial scandals, both alleged and proven, many members have broken off from the main church, disgusted with the church, but still supportive of the faith. These members have formed religions that practice scientology--without the cost--but go under different names (since the church of Scientology would sue them).

 

[Jacobi]

First : I've got two problems :
I can't discuss such complex things, my English is too bad and I learned all I know about Scientology in school. But whatever, let's find some sources.

The Hubbard Professional Mark Super VII is the most sophisticated and expensive e-meter yet developed by the Church of Scientology. Its retail price in 1995 was US $3,850. Although the Church of Scientology claims that their e-meters are made of special high-precision components, the electronic technology in the Mark Super VII is ordinary 1980s-era VLSI, including an Intel 8051 8-bit microprocessor. An electrical engineer who examined the meter in November, 1995 estimated that devices of this type, custom-manufactured and sold in low volume, would normally retail for around $300 today.
http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets/E-Meter/Mark-VII/index.html

Sorry I can't find more because my computer crashes very often and its 2am

 

[OpinionatedCyborg]

^Rip off? Yes. Hardly refutes that Scientology's a religion, though.

 

[Dilbert]

^Rip off? Yes. Hardly refutes that Scientology's a religion, though.

Are you on the payroll? I'm being serious. You care WAY too much about defending a bunch of nutjobs.

 

[Ristamar]

Are you on the payroll? I'm being serious. You care WAY too much about defending a bunch of nutjobs.

Hm. Funny you should mention that...

http://www.scientology-kills.org/celebrities/lewis_j.htm

 

[Rocket Punch]

This thread has opened my eyes. I knew next to nothing to Scientology. What I don't understand is how can smart successful people be inducted into such an obvious scam?

 

[UltraMarioMan]

Anyone who believes Scientology is a real religion needs serious mental help. Its a CULT it needs to be completely wiped out. Throw the head honchos in jail and debrainwash the followers. Give them their money back.

 

[puck1337]

Anyone who believes Scientology is a real religion needs serious mental help. Its a CULT it needs to be completely wiped out. Throw the head honchos in jail and debrainwash the followers. Give them their money back.

It is a real religion. That doesn't mean that it's a good or healthy religion.

 

[OpinionatedCyborg]

Anyone who believes Scientology is a real religion needs serious mental help. Its a CULT it needs to be completely wiped out. Throw the head honchos in jail and debrainwash the followers. Give them their money back.

Thanks for reading the thread. As my import version of DDR often tells me, "YOURS DOING GREAT!"

Are you on the payroll? I'm being serious. You care WAY too much about defending a bunch of nutjobs.

Nah, just doing some pro-bono internet lawyer work.

I hate it when people see a scary word like 'cult,' or 'brainwash' on a clearly extremist site and jump to conclusions immediately. I'm not trying to excuse the financial scandal that's occured in Scientology, or the hilarious nature in which it was founded. Simply, I'm trying to set the record straight on a few gaffes that were quickly obvious to me while reading this thread.

The majority of my information comes from the research I did 2 years ago in grade 11 for my history class where I had to research the occult and compare it to modern religion. I've supplemented the research I've forgotten by quickly referencing wikipedia. Many people in this thread have viewed scientology kills, etc; I don't see how I care more about this than anyone else. I can't stand spin, even if it's on the side I agree with.

Defending America's soldiers does not equate to defending the war in Iraq. Conversley, attacking the war in Iraq was immoral does not equate to attacking America's soldiers. Pointing out blatant errors, and trying to correct slanted thinking towards Scientology does not mean I practice it myself or support it in anyway.

I mean, come on: if anyone's gonna start a religion, charge hefty fees to join, then fly off in a space ship to the planet plasmosis (biobiobio), it's gonna be me. I would never join this group. Ever.

Unless they paid me and gave me treats. Like Tom Cruise... feel free to take me up on this offer, Scientologists.

 

[Pellham]

well it doesn't matter if scientology is officially a religion or not, what matters is that it's obviously a crock and people who are blindly defending the "religion" are either members themselves or just plain stupid.

 

[OpinionatedCyborg]

well it doesn't matter if scientology is officially a religion or not, what matters is that it's obviously a crock and people who are blindly defending the "religion" are either members themselves or just plain stupid.

People who blindly support anything are stupid, which was the entire reason why I bothered replying with a slightly more accurate viewpoint. I've seen the ugly face of blind patriotism, religious faith, and racism, and I never want to succumb to any of those myself. If keeping a clean ocular on these issues means being somewhat controversial and defending what appears to be immoral, scandalous, and wrong, then that's what I'll do.

 

[bishoptl]

Tom Cruise prepares to suck the brain from his latest Scientology conquest, yesterday

 

[demon]

Tom Cruise prepares to suck the brain from his latest Scientology conquest, yesterday

Holy crap Tom Cruise is short...

 

[Zaptruder]

"crap on stick"

I don't get the point you're trying to make.

We're saying, Scientology is bad. BAD. Worse than your typical religion. Cult-like.

You say you have proof otherwise (and don't provide it), but then go on to agree with the idea that it's bad stuff.

What the fuck is it you're trying to say? Or are you just trying to confuse yourself and everyone else here?

 

[bishoptl]

"Where is your love, Zaptruder? Come, submit to our E-reader so we can measure your thetan waves."

 

[demon]

Jesus fuck....I knew Tom Cruise was short, but isn't Katie Holmes only 5'8 (according to the internet)? He looks like he's shorter than Al Pacino there.

 

[Incognito]

http://www.sky.com/showbiz/article/0,,50001-1180112,00.html

TOM'S GIRL SAYS NO TO SEX; SAVING HERSELF UNTIL MARRIAGE.

:lol

 

[Pellham]

Katie Holmes is a virgin? Somehow I find that hard to believe...

 

[demon]

http://www.sky.com/showbiz/article/0,,50001-1180112,00.html

TOM'S GIRL SAYS NO TO SEX; SAVING HERSELF UNTIL MARRIAGE.

:lol

The Sun reports a source at the Hassler Hotel as saying: "He wanted a romantic atmosphere and ordered as many red roses as we could find to fill the suite."

Apparently, jewellery was delivered to the room for Katie and more than 40 outfits were sent over by designer Giorgio Armani.

:lol :lol Holy shit.

 

[Manics]

http://www.sky.com/showbiz/article/0,,50001-1180112,00.html

TOM'S GIRL SAYS NO TO SEX; SAVING HERSELF UNTIL MARRIAGE.

:lol

Quick someone cue up "Poor Tom" by Zeppelin... :lol

 

[Hitokage]

I hate it when people see a scary word like 'cult,' or 'brainwash' on a clearly extremist site and jump to conclusions immediately.

Look, do you even know how brainwashing works? In reality, mind control can be far far more subtle and insiduous than somebody strapped to a chair with a huge device. I'll quote Margaret Singer's* Six Conditions For Thought Reform:

"1. Gaining control over a person's time, especially his thinking time and physical environment.
2. Creating a sense of powerlessness, fear and dependency in the recruit, while providing models that demonstrate the new behavior that leadership wants to produce.
3. Manipulating rewards, punishments and experiences in order to supress the recruit's former social behavior and attitudes, including the use of altered states of consciousness to manipulate experience.
4. Manipulating rewards, punishments and experiences in order to elicit behavior and attitudes that leadership wants.
5. Creating a tightly controlled system with a closed system of logic, wherein those who dissent are made to feel as though their questioning indicates that there is something inherently wrong with them. [Personal note: Mormonism layed this on THICK.]
6. Keeping recruits unaware and uninformed that there is an agenda to control or change them. Leadership cannot carry out a thought-reform program with a person's full capacity and informed consent. [Personal note: It doesn't matter whether leadership knows what they are doing or not. Besides, it's usually people in the middle of the ladder who do the grunt work anyway.]"

Then there's also this description of the types of control involved.

* Psychologist who studed Korean War POWs.

The majority of my information comes from the research I did 2 years ago in grade 11 for my history class where I had to research the occult and compare it to modern religion. I've supplemented the research I've forgotten by quickly referencing wikipedia.

Sorry, the "occult" and cultic organizations are NOT the same.

BTW, it also doesn't help to simply say "extremist site" without noticing the various external sources used, many to mainstream news agencies. Oh, and that tax exempt status? http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Cowen/essays/nytimes.html