How was she the factor when her party tried to block the vote? She is party leader and cancellor, your party doesnt work against you in this case
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Germany passes law for Same-Sex-Marriage
- Thread starter GAMEPROFF
- Start date
You mean the same SPD that got this into the coalition treaty 4 years ago and never bothered with it until Merkel said its ok?
She has huge power over the SPD. Why do you think they waited until she said its ok?
I don't think that she only voted against it to please conservative voters/members of her party. From everything she's said over the years, I think she's genuinely got a problem with the idea of same-sex marriage and the only reasons she's now let it come to a vote are that a) she's run out of pseudo-rational excuses to oppose it and b) she knew that it was going to happen sooner or later and knew that her biggest opponent would use it as a weapon against her in the upcoming elections (and Germany's two big parties have become so similar on so many issues that taking away this one distinguishing feature isn't as insignificant as one might think).
I also doubt that she's the most famous German. Both Albert Einstein and Hitler are bound to be more (in)famous than her (and maybe a few others I can't think of right now
). Unless you meant most famous living German.If they did it would mean Koalitionsbruch and chaos.
No, Merkel is a big part of the reason for why it took so long in the first place. She could've done that years ago. Her finally deciding to do it now for strategical reasons is cetainly not praiseworthy.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
The difference is that Kurz is the first ÖVP head that succeeded with his power play in ages. All the others eventually had to go because of party strife, he disbanded the party essentially.
You should expect the party to be better as a result but it's the same old garbage conservative party still.
Maybe it's both.
In the end all of this is good.
The law passed, let's hope the constitution says it's legit.
If you're a Conservative, there you go. Now you know where Merkel stands in this discussion. So go vote for her and not for the AfD.
If you're a Progressive, there you go. Now you know where the SPD stands and that it can outplay Merkel if they see the chance. So go vote for them and not The Linke.
If you're gay and want to marry your significant other, CONGRATULATIONS!
Some politicians argued that the bond between men and women needs special treatment as it leads to children. But that's also ignoring reality as a lot of people with children haven't married. It would make much more sense to cut tax benefits related to marriage and link them to whether a couple has children or whether they don't.
I'd be surprised if it played a role in future discussions. For most it's not a topic that changes their vote anyway as it doesn't affect them.
I'd be surprised if it played a role in future discussions. For most it's not a topic that changes their vote anyway as it doesn't affect them.
It would have been very close, but the voting result shows, that even without CDU/CSU people the Vote would have been successful
TheAbsolution
Member
Y'all knew this gif was coming.
Congrats Germany!
Congrats Germany!
This. There's a reason that there had been this initial euphoria by conservative center-right voters about Kurz. (polling at a record 30% early this week)
He's young. He's somewhat charismatic (more charismatic than, say, Molterer, Spindelegger and many that came before him). He's got the "unquestioned support of the party" (instead of the other way around, him being a puppet to the Landeshauptleute).
People had high hopes that he would actually deliver on the promise of renewing the ÖVP. But yesterday's vote made the party show their true colors, which aren't teal, but deep-deep black.
I think, politically, that was a bad move. The conservative base would have voted black even if they had gone along with marriage equality. Social progressive ÖVP voters might not forgive this block, a very significant gesture, all that easily. Voting yes on marriage equality would have swayed many NEOS voters back to the ÖVP, as it would have been a strong signal of "see, we're not the shitty conservative old-people party anymore"
Forcing them to put their cards on the table like that was a rather smart move by the other parties.
Red Arremer
Member
Nah, he didn't disband the party, he simply did the same thing Schüssel did way back when he took over, making it a tightly run ship. You can easily see the parallels between then and now, and it comes to no surprise that Schüssel is a close confidant of Kurz. But I doubt a 30-year-old has the political smarts to do that. He is very much an installation by Schüssel.
We really should make some sort of Austria GAF OT where we can talk about this kind of stuff.
Art Teitlebaum
Member
Our history in a nutshell since the MSPD/USPD schism. But tbh it could have been worse than the vicar's daughter from the East. (And it will be after September, I reckon.)
Another reminder how petty party politics have held back progress for a long time.
This majority has existed for years, it was just a matter of the governing party holding the vote. It's mindblowing that this came so very much out of the blue and how quickly the law was passed. In a weird way it's also kind of sad when you think about other topics were voting is blocked for political reasons.
This majority has existed for years, it was just a matter of the governing party holding the vote. It's mindblowing that this came so very much out of the blue and how quickly the law was passed. In a weird way it's also kind of sad when you think about other topics were voting is blocked for political reasons.
IrishNinja
Member
Patrick Bateman
Member
Bedameister
Member
How many members of CDU/CSU voted yes?
She's an old christian conservative. Of course she would vote against it!?
This is one of the big things this is about. Germany already had "registered partnerships" but adoption, taking names and things like that weren't part of it.
Merkel just acknowledged that § 6 of the constitution only refers to marriages between a man and a woman:
"Für mich ist die Ehe im Grundgesetz die Ehe von Mann und Frau", sagte die CDU-Vorsitzende mit Blick auf den besonderen Schutz der Ehe durch Artikel 6 des Grundgesetzes."
http://www.zeit.de/politik/2017-06/bundestag-stimmt-fuer-ehe-fuer-alle
Todays poll in the Bundestag only leads to changes in the German Civil Code. Some critics argue that this is technically not enough and a change of the constitution is also necessary.
I guess she just wants to pander to the party base by voting against. She knew she could do that because todays was a foregone conclusion.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I knew Germany would vote yes on this
WTF Merkel. You know those silly "who is the leader of the free world" threads? Im putting Trudeau back in..
WTF Merkel. You know those silly "who is the leader of the free world" threads? Im putting Trudeau back in..
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Something I don't get... why isn't Same Sex Marriage something that the entire EU as a bloc has to affirm?
Red Arremer
Member
It will open up adoption for gay couples since SSM will have the exact same rights as a straight marriage. At least that's my understanding.
^they will have to pass legislation
"Left" majority? That's like summing up the votes for CDU/CSU and AFD. Really disingenuous imho
"Left" majority? That's like summing up the votes for CDU/CSU and AFD. Really disingenuous imho
Looking at the official votes here http://lsvd.de/fileadmin/pics/Dokum...e/EheFuerAlle2017._Namentliche_Abstimmung.pdf
Just skimming, but it looks like a lot of the CDU "yes" votes are women, including some of the biggest names in German politics. Pretty interesting split.
Just skimming, but it looks like a lot of the CDU "yes" votes are women, including some of the biggest names in German politics. Pretty interesting split.
The president and, assuming that he'll let it go through, the Federal Constitutional Court will decide whether it's enough. There'll surely be someone who's going to Karlsruhe over this.
Less than 3 months before the next election, that does indeed sound like one of the worst ideas.
No, this is absolutely wrong.
The only reason Merkel broke away from a definite, party-wide No was because every other party in the Bundestag openly stated that they would not work with the CDU after this year's election if they would not support same sex marriage. They 100% forced her to change gears to stay in power. This is on the opposition and the SPD finally growing some balls in light of the coming election.
What Merkel explicitely didn't want was this vote. The CDU/CSU and she specifically were pissed at the SPD charging ahead. BEcause what Merkel planned on was saying that she's technically fine with same-sex marriage, take a big election topic in favor of the SPD out of the equation and then worry about it after said election. SPD, however, used what she said to go "Well, then we can do it right now!" which was absolutely not Merkel's plan.
Kinda agree. At least chronologically though she responded to the FDP and the SPD didn't react till after she had moved.
What did you expect from a conservative christian leading leading a party called Christian Democratic Union.
edit: This is/was a purely a tactical decision by Merkel to secure the next election. All the other parties had already said that they would not ally with CDU in the next government if Merkel did not let her party vote freely on this matter. This is required as alone CDU doesn't have the majority. Also takes a big counter point away from SPD in the next elections who have been pushing for this for a long time.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Because it is an economic union first and foremost.
His Castro moment wasn't great either.
CarlisleDavid1979
Member
Congratulations Germany
firehawk12
Subete no aware
So if you go to a country in the EU where it's not legal, your marriage isn't recognized?
Red Arremer
Member
It depends on the country.
For instance, Estonia, while not allowing SSM, accepts a couple that got married outside of Estonia as such.
Austria on the other hand does not recognize any sort of SSM.
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
No, it would definitely have passed, but it wouldn't have come to a vote and currently it seems like CDU/CSU and the nazi party AfD will have more than half the seats in the parliament after the next election, so had it not come to the vote now, it would probably have taken at least 4 more years.
Monkeyball
Banned
Merkel voted no?!?!??!
Wow, what a horrible PM Germany has..
Wow, what a horrible PM Germany has..
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