jakonovski
Member
That one again, the thing is those pesky human rights prevent it in case of refugees. And human rights are worth it 100%.
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Germany: Seven refugees arrested after a homeless man was set on fire
- Thread starter Shiggy
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That one again, the thing is those pesky human rights prevent it in case of refugees. And human rights are worth it 100%.
You accuse people of living in a bubble then handwave any accusations of racism, despite the rise of hate crimes around europe and the numerous complaints from ethnic minorities around the continent that they are feeling less safe in their communities than ever before. You need to get out of your bubble.
Depends but from experience, for the young ones, nothing (voluntary work if even that).
excelsiorlef
Member
Air Zombie Meat
Member
But a German in China isn't fleeing a dangerous, life threatening situation.
maquiladora
Member
I can smell your MAGA hat from here.
guggnichso
Banned
You should learn a little bit more about the german justice system. The judgement was of course revised, as it should, and the were sentenced accordingly.
"Die Staatsanwaltschaft legte gegen das Urteil in diesem Punkt Revision beim Bundesgerichtshof ein.[9] Dieser urteilte am 3. Dezember 2009 (Az.: 3 StR 277/09), dass der Sturm 34 durch seine Zielsetzungen eine kriminelle Vereinigung war und gab damit der Revision statt. Der Prozess wurde an das Landgericht Dresden zurückverwiesen,[10] welches im Urteil vom 13. April 2011 die Bildung einer kriminellen Vereinigung als gegeben sah.[11] Im Januar 2013 bestätigte das Landgericht Dresden eine Verurteilung von fünf Rädelsführern von Sturm 34 wegen schwerer Körperverletzung, Sachbeschädigung und Bildung einer kriminellen Vereinigung zu Bewährungs- und Geldstrafen.[12]"
This article does really say nothing at all, as the proceedings against the perpetrator from Hameln are still under way. Rainer Wendt is just some guy who likes to spout a lot of law and order bullshit, as he is the head of one of two different police unions in germany, one in need of more members, so he likes to play the tough one.
Concerning the "sharia police": There is no law what so ever to walk through the city and talk to people in a friendly manner. Which is, what those guys seem to have been intelligent enough to do. If they would have threatened ANYONE at all, the surely would have been accused of a crime.
However, the only thing that the POLICE(!) found after investigating them was an accusation of them trying to wear uniforms, which is illegal as a civilian in germany.
However, as their clothes, which were just safety vests, did not resemble uniforms at all, the judges had no other choice but to NOT convict them.
Netherscourge
Banned
THAT is where I would focus my rage.
Deportation isn't the deterrent. A harsher penalty is. I would KEEP them in Germany and make the penalty harsher, so as to deter both Germans and refugees.
People are focusing too much on the refugee status of the criminals rather than the fact that they tried to burn a homeless guy to death. That's a societal issue, not an immigration issue.
I doubt refugees are the only people insensitive and downright nasty to homeless people in Germany.
An example needs to be set for all citizens, not just to refugees.
excelsiorlef
Member
Sentenced for what?
guggnichso
Banned
For what? Upholding the priciples of western values and our Grundgesetz?
Royal_Phalanx
Member
Really fucked up and shows a basic lack of kindness and compassion. Hopefully they will be sent back after the war is over without question and locked up until then. I thought they would have more compassion towards their fellow humans considering their countries are objectively terrible places to live in.
I can understand wanting to hold refugees in general to zero tolerance behavioural standards because they're being given a opportunity to build a new life out of kindness and should show similar respect to the society that has helped them. They haven't paid into that society at all as well so this stance makes sense(but hopefully will get the chance to do so in future).
Free movement in the EU is great thing overall, people really underestimate the opportunities it gives to people on our continent. Policies simply need to change to make the outer borders more secure and regulated. But the general principle that refugees should be taken in is a good one. We should aim to help people less fortunate than ourselves.
I can understand wanting to hold refugees in general to zero tolerance behavioural standards because they're being given a opportunity to build a new life out of kindness and should show similar respect to the society that has helped them. They haven't paid into that society at all as well so this stance makes sense(but hopefully will get the chance to do so in future).
Free movement in the EU is great thing overall, people really underestimate the opportunities it gives to people on our continent. Policies simply need to change to make the outer borders more secure and regulated. But the general principle that refugees should be taken in is a good one. We should aim to help people less fortunate than ourselves.
...They set someone on fucking fire and your solution is to make them volunteer??
No words.
prelude514
Banned
LookAtMeGo
Member
Fucking kids. Glad he is OK. Hopefully people come together to help him out.
ClosingADoor
Member
Please refer to my previous posts where I already explained that I am not talking about sending people into a war zone, but serving the sentence and then deport if possible. If not possible, serve the time, then stop them from getting permanent a permanent stay and deport when the conflict is resolved. With repeat offenses, do longer sentences and/or confine them to the asylum center if they have shown a pattern of not being able to function inside society.
Also, this is not an explanation of why sending the "bad ones" back to other countries is wrong. So, why would that be wrong according to you?
Darth Ghandi
Banned
True, but many people who study criminality also say that this is due to the discrimination POC face in the justice system.
Hold on, I know this chant..... Oh yeah, now i member!
LOCK HER UP, LOCK HER UP!
MagnaderAlpha
Member
What about Seven White males set homeless man on fire, cause the cases we get here in SoCali (yeah, it happens here too), it tends to be white teens (mainly guys) doing that kinda shit. Course, it only makes local news, not nation-wide news.Gemüsepizza;227248633 said:
Royal_Phalanx
Member
In the hypothetical situation where a refugee offender becomes a functioning member of society afterwards, would you still support this for that particular individual? I'm assuming some of them will be released eventually and walk around freely until the war is over and their permit expires. Seems like there should be some nuance here, though they aren't active taxpayers so...
Not talking about those assholes who did this, obviously. You can send them back, someone who tries to kill someone or do other extremely fucked up things doesn't belong in your society.
jakonovski
Member
These refugee criminals are not deportable and non-refugee immigrants that commit deportable crimes are generally deported.
And like I said earler, sending refugee criminals to a 3rd party country is elitist and cowardly. Not to mention that the 3rd party will charge extra money for their troubles, or then just breach human rights in which case we become complicit in said crime.
ClosingADoor
Member
Depends on the crime and pattern. But the default should be to prevent them from getting permanent residence. Someone doing shoplifting once, but after that staying out of trouble and making a positive contribution is of course different from setting someone on fire, like you say.
The problems - at least as far as I can tell - are mostly from repeat offenders who display a pattern of bad behavior. And those should not be able to stay.
We are not talking about a 3rd party country. That is something you are adding now for some reason. We are talking about deportation to the country of origin. They don't get to charge money. It is their citizen and they need to accept them back and deal with them. The EU needs to put pressure on them to do so, if they don't want to. I don't see how this is even an argument.
And no, people set for deportation are not deported. This is a big problem. They don't show up, their country of origin doesn't work with us to sent them back, they are fleeing to other countries. There have been numerous reports about this. And the most extreme example is the Berlin terrorist, who was set for deportation three times, but was not deported. So clearly there is something not going like it is supposed to go.
psychowave
Member
If non-white men commited crimes at the rate white men do people would lose their shit.
Bruce Springsteen
Member
is this a meme? I don't get the point of this shit posting
Are they? Their home countries often don't want them either.
Seems like your country has a larger issue then. Such incidents are rare in Germany, and this particular incident became a top story before the people involved were identified.
These comparisons aren't really appropriate. From what I gather from news, there seems to be systematic discrimination against Black people in almost all parts of their lives, including the judicial system. The same cannot really be said about the criminal Arab clans in Germany, for example.
I don't think you can send a person back if they don't have a passport.
Gross.
I see you are banned, but I hope someday you learn to feel empathy for your fellow human beings. Sending refugees to certain death in a warzone is not an appropriate response. Rehabilitation is a thing.
jakonovski
Member
Well, I seem to have misunderstood you because you kept pushing this deportation angle in a thread about refugees committing a crime. So apologies for that.
I have no argument against deporting non-refugee criminals that fit the bill. That's how things should work.
Darth Ghandi
Banned
Well yes they are. At least here in Sweden. Even the police have said that people of coulor are more discriminated against in the justice system.
jakonovski
Member
The assumption is that the state follows and enforces the law. If there's a systemic issue that prevents that, there should be numbers available.
Fuck those 7 assholes and send their asses back, I don't care if they will die in a war torn country. They came here to flew violence and demise just to spread it here to an homeless guy?
I welcome every refugee who are not breaking the law here in Germany, the actions of some idiots don't reflect the actions of the masses.
My family fled the aftermath of a war and political persecution themselves to come to Germany so I can relate to their suffering quite well.
I welcome every refugee who are not breaking the law here in Germany, the actions of some idiots don't reflect the actions of the masses.
My family fled the aftermath of a war and political persecution themselves to come to Germany so I can relate to their suffering quite well.
xrnzaaas
Member
They know that it won't happen.
Do you have any link (Swedish language is fine)? I'm not really aware of criminal statistics for Sweden related to ethnicity, especially since police is not allowed to publish such information anymore.
Then again, my impression was that people from Arab countries were much Hehe integrated in Sweden than in Germany. The absence of anyone with a background from those countries at my university still came as a surprise.
No True Scotsman fallacy?
Don't they get due process/trials for setting a man's bed on fire? Or is the law = instant ban when you break law. For refugees?
Not familiar with German law. But it's weird to wish death on folks re. Send them back over a crime from a country with a civil justice system.
Darth Ghandi
Banned
http://www.bra.se/bra/publikationer...-personer-fodda-i-sverige-och-i-utlandet.html
I think the page is nr 23 in regards to discrimination.
Also this is a good link with some facts about discrimination Muslims face in Sweden.
http://www.do.se/om-diskriminering/publikationer/forskning-om-diskriminering-av-muslimer-sverige/
PrimaNocta
Member
If what they did is 100% Factual and they did try to burn a homeless man alive, than I would not lose one minute of sleep by sending them back. You realize that acts like this hurt honest and law biding refugees that actual want to contribute to society?
jakonovski
Member
Does anyone saying "send them back" give a shit about human rights?
Darth Ghandi
Banned
A lot of the time they don't if the person has more melanin...
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
This is stupid.
If a man from Germany goes to Bangkok and sets someone on fire, should they deport all Germans and close their borders to them?
'Of course not because he is white.'
Thats your logic right now. Thats what you want to answer with, but you dont want to say it.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Much more integrated? Less? You post has a rather unfortunate auto-miscorrect! Either way, I don't really know how Sweden and Germany compare in this regard. But most ME immigrants here in Sweden are not very well integrated in my experience (which comes partly from living in an area with a lot of them for several years). Some are, brilliantly so, of course, but not most of them.
Anyway, here are some statistics for crime rate of native Swedes vs immigrants: http://www.migrationsinfo.se/valfard/kriminalitet/
The short of it is that non-native Swedes are overrepresented by 2.5x, in the statistics at least. But then there's of course the question of WHY that is. There's no single explanation.
Darth Ghandi
Banned
Regarding your overrepresentation I reckon you should read this link to give it some context.
https://motargument.se/2012/10/08/det-dar-om-invandring-ekonomi-och-brottslighet/
Sympathy tends to run thin when it comes to an attempted murder charge for no better reason than "for the lolz"
Man, I hope you're not referring to these particular refugees.
Was this a general statement?
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Yeah, I didn't say anything about WHY it looks like this, but it does.
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