Zeyphersan
Banned
True that. Being lost in an adventure game is frustrating, but whatever. Being lost with random battles is a nightmare
Getting lost/being stuck in a game was bad all this time?
- Thread starter nkarafo
- Start date
True that. Being lost in an adventure game is frustrating, but whatever. Being lost with random battles is a nightmare
SerTapTap
Member
Naughty Dog games do a decent job at this. If you've taken far longer than you should have a little hint prompt comes up--totally optional to take it, and you can turn it off entirely.
Moon_frogger
Member
If the game tells you to find the elf in the library and you are too lazy to find the library and look around for the elf then that's not bad game design. If the game says 'find the elf' but neglects to tell you that he only appears, in the library basement at night after you have first found the ring hidden in the bush behind the library and returned it to the librarian who then gives you a key to the library basement after you talk to him 3 timesit's bad game design. Hope that helps.
Art Vandilay
Member
The first game I was ever hooked on was Zelda: LttP. I didn't realize it at the time, but possibly my favorite aspect of the game was lack of instruction. I would explore every corner of the map, chop every bush, dash into anything I could, and bomb everything in sight.
That said, I wish there more games like that. Despite being sometimes frustrated (I was pretty young at the time), I loved this game. And if you guys know of any similar games, those that require exploration, please make recommendations.
That said, I wish there more games like that. Despite being sometimes frustrated (I was pretty young at the time), I loved this game. And if you guys know of any similar games, those that require exploration, please make recommendations.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
But...that's just a fancy way of saying "Difficulty Mode".
I think a better example are some FPS games like Deus Ex and System Shock 1 +2, that allow you to set different elements of the game at different difficulties. So the action parts could be one way and puzzles set another way, just as a quick example. And that gives the player a better indication of what components of the game will be more taxing to them.
As to the original question, for me personally it depends. Now w/ the internet, if I get really stuck I can just Google some info to solve things, but I'm naturally stubborn with things so I'll choose to stay stuck for a while before resorting to that.
Players really shouldn't be able to complain these days b/c of the wealth of resources available to help, but back before 2000? Sure, if they couldn't afford every strategy guide and game mag under the Sun.
Wait, wat? That's completely ignoring entire genres of games that focus on memorization (brain and/or muscle) and learning through failure.
If I'm playing a platformer at a really difficult part and screw up a jump over a death pit, or playing a fighter and do a super-punishable blocked Super,I should die, I'd rather die than land on a hidden cloud or not eat a reversal. Teach me a lesson, game, I don't mind.
Well now that's where some mutual compromises have to be made. Devs shouldn't design their games exclusively for engineers and geniuses, but if a lazy player comes at a point and doesn't want to put in enough effort to overcome it themselves, it's their loss. A game can only accommodate a player to an extent; after that point the player just has to step up and get better.
It's like complaining you're bad at fighting games but constantly mash dragon punches for an entire match once your health is low. That's not putting in a real effort. Those kids can go play another game then; when they feel up the task again they can come back and give the hard game another try and do a little better.
Haunted
Member
The world is faster now, no one has time to get stuck somewhere, where kids had few other entertainment options and would gladly bang their heads against the same game until they came through, they'll just go to their iphone/ipad and play something else instead.
Not making a judgement, just the way things have gone in the last 20 years when we were kids. (everything was better when I was 12! etc etc)
Not making a judgement, just the way things have gone in the last 20 years when we were kids. (everything was better when I was 12! etc etc)
I don't mind some exploration or getting a little lost but I've never really been a patient gamer and one of the major reasons I beat so few games growing up. The moment I died more than a handful of times in the same spot I wouldn't want to keep trying. The 8/16 bit days were hard for someone like me. I'm still very much like this but since most games have frequent saves and no game overs it doesn't come up as much.
Adam_Roman
Member
There's a difference between "getting stuck" and "forcing the player to take a step back and think". Portal was really good at this. There was never a time where I was stumped for hours on end.
Or you are at a bric wall of a boss and you have to retreat and grind...if you can of course, you could just have to get through it under leveled
You're looking at it the wrong way. Sure when games are built around things like map markers there's no logical way to find a place without them, and quests would be near impossible to do without them.
It should be done from the opposite way though; with instructions designed with clues so you can intuit it without those help devices, with things like markers being a backup for players who can't or don't want to work it out themselves, rather than something quests are built around from the ground up.
Zeyphersan
Banned
I actually don't fully mind having to grind for a boss. It's annoying, but I'll distract myself with something else while I play. The worst is when you're in a labyrinth of a level and you keep hitting dead ends trying to find where to go next but random battles keep popping up and slowing you way down
However, not being able to take the time to even grind for a boss you've hit is awful. Is there a specific game you were thinking of?
……forgetit
Member
There are two kinds of stuck, the kind that makes you think and try new things, and the kind that is almost impossible to figure out without a guide or the Internet. The second can just be poor game design. So no, being stuck isn't always a good thing, and there's a difference between hand holding and the game giving you a big "fuck you."
Sentenza
Member
"Wait, what?" should be my line, considering how your answer doesn't seem even remotely related to what I wrote there.
Zeuanimals
Member
I've watched Twitch streams of people playing games that aren't too confusing, but they'll get lost even with clear indications of where to go and what to do, then they'll say "fuck this game" "where the fuck do I go", etc. and they'll even ask the viewers what to do. Some viewers will give them the right information but the streamer still won't understand even after being told numerous times and even having it laid out specifically in a very precise and easy to follow manner.
So sometimes, it's the player's fault, not the game's. And sometimes it's DSP.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
Zack and Wiki for Wii
As challenging as it was I beat without any guides. If you got stuck, it was all on you. So rewarding once you figured it out.
As challenging as it was I beat without any guides. If you got stuck, it was all on you. So rewarding once you figured it out.
The_Endgamer
Member
This.
Honestly, that people think that being stuck in a game for 10mins is bad design just speaks to how impatient they are. Being stuck in OoT so much on my first play through as a kid had me loving every moment. I was stuck on one puzzle for a whole week FFS and people can't handle 10mins?!
As the great Chopper Read would say: 'Harden the f*** up.'
Yup. I'm getting angry just thinking about it. It is the reason I stopped playing traditional turn based JRPGS that had random battles.
I know you're being sarcastic, but just because your were stuck on a puzzle for one week doesn't mean you possess patience we don't.
REALLY? ONE WEEK? GODS.
The_Endgamer
Member
I know, but there was a time in the long long ago where games had real open areas worth exploring, not just shovelled in corridors.
Lack of open areas like that might be to blame too but being stuck in a game shouldn't be because of lazy design choices, it should be because the games designers were intelligent enough to not let you pass so easily.
nkarafo
Member
But how can you "get lost" in another world if it holds your hand all the way through?
That is a ridiculously ignorant comment. It's like some try to create a dichotomy between fun and anything related to learning or more generally just improving yourself. For instance the FoldIt game from a few years back is an amusing example directly pooing on the that little "You're not curing cancer." quip:
http://techland.time.com/2011/09/19...ds-puzzle-that-baffled-scientists-for-decade/
I can't even imagine how many future rocket scientists games like Kerbal Space Program are now creating because you know what - it's just an insanely fun game that also happens to model major contemporary issues in reality. All of this said I understand the desire to just "click off" on occasion, but that should not be the standard or expected form of entertainment by any means. It's been shown that other games, such as chess, that require active mental effort actually help fight off degenerative neurological issues like Alzheimer's and dementia.
The brain is an organ that acts like a muscle - you use it, or you lose it.
In essence I think the entertainment you consume is in many ways like the food you consume. The only problem here is that the consequences of making yourself unhealthy and the equivalent of fat have no obvious physical symptoms. It just results in a very gradual brain drain. In many ways it is similar to the food issue again. You're generally not going to end up a ball of fat and with heart disease, diabetes and all the other fun things that come with it just because you have a sweet tooth. It takes a long term blase disregard for your health, physical or mental. If eating porly didn't make you bloat out like a whale I'm sure you'd still have naysayers belittling people who actually care about what they eat.
It'd be interesting to gauge the mental acuity of those who have a strong preference for simply "shutting down" after work or during their entertainment in general. I'm certainly not suggesting that it's generally stupid people attracted so such a concept but rather that engaging in that sort of behavior for lengthy periods of time is "obviously" going to have negative consequences on your cognitive abilities.
Getting stuck is bad game design. It means the game did not communicate something properly to you.
There's a difference between getting stuck and being lost temporarily, for the record.
One is good and fulfilling when you figure it out, the other is cheap and bad design.
Edit: I don't mean stuck via difficulty, I mean stuck like wtf do I do now.
There's a difference between getting stuck and being lost temporarily, for the record.
One is good and fulfilling when you figure it out, the other is cheap and bad design.
Edit: I don't mean stuck via difficulty, I mean stuck like wtf do I do now.
SpecialAgentZ
Member
I use this
http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/37062/?
http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/11414/?
and I think the game is better with it. Not perfect, but way better.
A system that rewards exploration where you have to investigate to find every place would be way better, but we won't see anything like this unless the dev stop catering only to the less skilled people.
I cant see that happening anytime soon. Look how much time took until we got the decent "Legendary" difficulty. And even then we still need mods to make dragons real dragons. Just sit and watch devs not giving a shit about this kind of immersive difficulty system we need.
cooltrainer
Member
I think for me and probably for a lot of other folks it's really easy to just drop a game when I get stuck. If I get stuck I stop playing for a bit and do something else, and often don't return for a long time. When you're younger you have a lot less games and more time to play them. So you have to keep playing when you get stuck. It's not a bad thing, but when you have so many games you can play it sometimes can be hard to go back to the thing that you find frustrating. Rogue Legacy is a recent game I've played that has a great challenge but you always feel that you are making progress. I keep coming back to it.