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Ghost in the Shell has Changed the Name of its Main Character
- Thread starter LordOfLore
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Nerds
You're straight up shitposting now. No one here has seen the movie, and calling posters idiots for being interested in the trailer is not cool.
The imaginary audience that would refuse to see this film because a Japanese woman was the lead.
No. I'm not excusing Hollywood. I'm permitting Hollywood to give us black Johnny Storm, and saying that if they insist on ScarJo, at least keep Kusanagi's cultural identity as intact as possible.
The examples are jarring in the same way ScarJo is. A white actor shouldn't be playing an Asian role.
Hot Coldman
Banned
I feel like they should have just set this in New York. That's what the Death Note film is doing right? Basically picking up that story and plopping it in a US city?
formasymphonic
Member
We all get this. and I don't want you to feel like I'm attacking you specifically but...
If we just continue to accept this as a justification then no asian, black, latino, indian or any other minority will be able to if we never build them up to be. I'm not disputing what you are saying we all know how risk-averse studios are but this stuff is a catch-22. Its exactly how we've ended up with years white male protagonists in games, with the justifications of them focus-testing higher.
Quoting myself from the Oscars so White, What's Next? thread:
This is the only real long term solution. Decades of being told "only certain types of people" can be seen as heroes and leads gets internalised, and you end up with a potential audience that isn't willing to accept leads that don't fit the perceptions, because focus testing shows "they can't identify with them". Will they ever learn to identify with them if they are never given opportunities to do so? catch-22. The effects of this bleed over into a whole load off other social facets beyond the scope of this thread, but "no japanese actress is famous enough to carry movie with this kind of budget" is definitely one of them.
White actors and actresses getting chosen over minorities (and IP heavily altered to accommodate them) will continue to happen until studios feel like they all still be able to get the audiences they think they will get now by whitewashing. The only way to change that long term is to improve representation in the media so the thought of minorities being leads is no longer some scary unwise gambit.
TatteredHat
Member
Who is this movie for, indeed. Sure as fuck isn't for me.
Salty Rice
Member
For all people who complained about Scarlett being cast thanks i guess?
You got your wish. She isnt playing Motoko anymore...
You got your wish. She isnt playing Motoko anymore...
SuperStiltzkin
Member
Johnny Storm isn't a white name. Hell, we have a black superhero NAMED Storm. Johnny Storm is an American superhero. Not white. And yes you are excusing hollywood. You even said you would accept a white Black Panther because there are white people with African names. Sorry, but we're not at the point where we can just brush whitewashing off as just Hollywood happening to make a movie about the one Japanese/African superhero with a Japanese/African name who JUST SO HAPPENS TO BE WHITE BECAUSE WHITE PEOPLE IN JAPAN AND AFRICA EXIST.
Brianimaniac
Banned
I understand pretty much all of these controversies except this one. Yeah, the character is half Asian, but also half white.Don't even have to dig that deep.
Didn't fly when Emma Stone was playing a half asian Allison Ng. It shouldn't fly here either. Changing the name is for the best.
If you are going to cast a white woman, changing the name is for the best.
razgriz417
Member
Saw the new trailer while watching Logan today, threw me for a loop when they called her Mira
Billy: Hey Hollywood, why didn't you cast a Japanese actress for the lead in Ghost in the Shell?
Hollywood: Well Billy, We are forced to cast big name stars for blockbuster movies due to the budget. Need the name recognition to sell the movie and make a profit. Cant risk it on ethnic actors who aren't that well known in America.
Billy : Oh, then why do you constantly cast newcomer white actors in $150+ million dollar movies, and keep doing it one flop after another?
Hollywood :
Hollywood: Well Billy, We are forced to cast big name stars for blockbuster movies due to the budget. Need the name recognition to sell the movie and make a profit. Cant risk it on ethnic actors who aren't that well known in America.
Billy : Oh, then why do you constantly cast newcomer white actors in $150+ million dollar movies, and keep doing it one flop after another?
Hollywood :
I don't think anyone would have complained if Spike Spiegal was played by a white guy
Spaced Harrier
Member
I don't think there's anything (inherently) wrong with the casting, but changing the name is pretty ugh.
formasymphonic
Member
This is what I believe should be the model for adapting anime / japanese IP / anything inherently japanese for a western audience. If they have no intention of adapting it faithfully, then just make their own thing and give it its own name/identity and just acknowledge that "it is based on _________".
I certainly did not say that. I'm not sure why you're ignoring the extremely clear qualifiers I've written in just about every post I've made in this topic: if Hollywood insists on casting a white actor in the role of a non-white character, then I think it's better to retain as much of the original story as possible rather than taking the bits they think will be profitable, and removing all the ethnic context.
Again, I don't think that white actors should be cast in non-white roles. We need more non-white actors representing hitherto marginalised groups.
I hope that clears up any misunderstanding. We're on the same page about the problem; just on different pages about the least unacceptable compromise.
SuperStiltzkin
Member
Changing the name actually makes me okay with the casting. Hollywood isn't bending over backwards to justify casting a white lead as a Japanese person. I'd find it insulting to be honest. Changing the name is for the best.
Yeah, but we would've got a CG Ein.
See, that sounds like you're excusing Hollywood for casting ScarJo to me. I still don't think it's okay. Nothing makes me okay with it.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
Hollywood should just stop doing anime.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
I remember the original rumor that said her name would be Montana Kristoferson. lol
I think you're going to be surprised.
Honestly, I can't be offended by this movie. As unecessary as the casting is (and I love ScarJo), it looks like it wants to be a good GOTS movie in every other regard. It's just that the anime STILL looks amazing and holds up well, so I'm not sure why this movie exists (other than to rake in that comic/anime geek money of course). The only thing needing an update is the flat VA from the original english dub.
bobbychalkers
Member
At least I won't have to roll my eyes super hard once I hear her say "My name is Motoko Kusanagi"
This x 10000Billy: Hey Hollywood, why didn't you cast a Japanese actress for the lead in Ghost in the Shell?
Hollywood: Well Billy, We are forced to cast big name stars for blockbuster movies due to the budget. Need the name recognition to sell the movie and make a profit. Cant risk it on ethnic actors who aren't that well known in America.
Billy : Oh, then why do you constantly cast newcomer white actors in $150+ million dollar movies, and keep doing it one flop after another?
Hollywood :
shira
Member
Aaaang
Funnily enough, rumors were that Keanu Reeves was in talks, and he's like a quarter Asian.
This is exactly how I feel. If you're gonna make an excuse to not cast Asian leads, then just revamp the whole thing, don't use Asia as a backdrop.
What's your point? Using Asian settings as eye candy while refusing to cast Asian people as lead characters is dumb.
Uh do Asians suddenly not live in North America or something?
Lionel Richie
Member
This is so awesome I now feel offended it didn't happen lol.
SuperStiltzkin
Member
Except I'm not. I've maintained this in every GitS thread I've ever posted in that I would only be okay with a white actor if they changed her name. I know we don't have an Asian actress or actor with the star power of Scarlet Johansenn. Not yet. I've made my peace with that. Would I have liked an Asian lead? Yes. But I knew that wasn't going to happen. So if they were gonna cast white, then I'd rather they change the name.
I'm not ignoring anything. I disagree with your fundamental premise. This half measure compromise that satisfies no one. I'm Asian and I'd find it insulting if someone prsented me with a white actor playing a character with an Asian name and said, "but look Asians, the have an Asian name! That's some representation! At least you have that huh?" Asian representation with a white face is not asian representation. It's cultural appropriation. Using a name to add exoticness.
Dice//
Banned
thank you
s_mirage
Member
Some fans can go weak over the knees over it if they like, but not me. I don't respect filmmakers for lifting scenes almost verbatim from other films; it shows a lack of originality or creativity, which is something I'm worried about with this movie.
I agree with you but also think that shouldn't be absolutely applied across the board in every instance. A bit of nuance should give leeway to something like Johansson being cast when you're dealing with source material that is prevalent with themes such as the questioning of physical identity.
To me, Johansson in Ghost in The Shell is more forgivable than Johnny Depp in The Lone Ranger or Christian Bale and Joel Edgerton in Exodus: Gods and Kings. Do I 100% love it? No. But I can see the various reasons it was done and am mostly okay or indifferent to it.
CadetMahoney
Member
Would have been great if he also hit his head on the top part too *just missed*
You mean, Aaron.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Shoulda gone full whitewash and called her Mary Grass
Movie will be shit but look pretty anyway so whatever
Movie will be shit but look pretty anyway so whatever
I find this line of thinking awfully rich considering anime rips off each constantly. And that's just focusing on actual anime, when they're not ripping off Kurosawa or western films, of course.
I don't see them reusing the shelling sequence as ripping off. This film is the first western GITS production, and I don't see a problem with them paying homage to the original film, especially since they're using that and some episodes of SAC as a template for this movie.
Winter Soldier is solid, I'll give you that.
Oh stop. It's fine if you don't personally like them but laughing as if the majority of them aren't liked by both critics and movie goers is just silly.
hydragonwarrior
Member
Scarjo's pretty hot tho.
spindoctor
Member
This is an unfortunate situation for the production team. Their choices were;
1) Call Scarlett's character Motoko Kusanagi and get accused of having a white person pretend to be Japanese.
2) Rename the character and get accused of not staying true to the source material.
Talk about being stuck between a rock and a hard place.
And yes, I know, someone will rush to bring up the third choice
3) Travel back in time and not cast Scarlett in the role.
And of course while they were there they could pick up some strips of cardboard and sketch pens because that's all the special effects budget they'd get. If they could get the movie greenlit at all. Do people think Hollywood studios are falling over themselves to bring anime to a live action movie?
Ghost in the Shell and Akira are some of the best/most influential/popular works of anime and I think it's great that they're making a movie out of it. Even if it isn't perfect. I'm sure some folks here would prefer that the movie never get made rather than with some compromises.
1) Call Scarlett's character Motoko Kusanagi and get accused of having a white person pretend to be Japanese.
2) Rename the character and get accused of not staying true to the source material.
Talk about being stuck between a rock and a hard place.
And yes, I know, someone will rush to bring up the third choice
3) Travel back in time and not cast Scarlett in the role.
And of course while they were there they could pick up some strips of cardboard and sketch pens because that's all the special effects budget they'd get. If they could get the movie greenlit at all. Do people think Hollywood studios are falling over themselves to bring anime to a live action movie?
Ghost in the Shell and Akira are some of the best/most influential/popular works of anime and I think it's great that they're making a movie out of it. Even if it isn't perfect. I'm sure some folks here would prefer that the movie never get made rather than with some compromises.
Shogmaster
Member
That honestly looks like shit to me. A shitty rehash of something done much better over 20 years ago.
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