Support NeoGAF

[Manu]

Well, she's white in the movie so what's the problem with not having a Japanese name?

I'd have a problem with it if her character was supposed to be Japanese.

 

[Atenhaus]

So a Japanese name got replaced with a Japanese name.



"Mira" is in the new teaser linked in the OP.

... Since when is Mira a Japanese name?

 

[Faiz]

As Entertainment Weekly reports, original creator Mamoru Oshii seemed to believe she had the character of Motoko, not Mira. Additionally, here’s their quote from producer Steven Paul, originally via BuzzFeed:

*Twitch*

He was the director of the film this is based on.

Masamune Shirow is the original creator.

 

[Slayven]

Say what you want about this movie, but I'm getting annoyed with posters commenting that anyone who's interested in this movie is a part of the lowest common denominator or some other bullshit.

I was asking because it clearly isn't for the nerds, and I wonder if the general public will give a fuck. Nerds won't make or break a movie but they can help amp the buzz of a movie.

 

[Angry Grimace]

This seems to be vastly overestimating the number of people who will really give a shit. ScarJo was attached to another scifi/action movie Lucy that made around half a billion dollars if I'm it mistaken. The notion that this movie will flop simply because some anime fans of the original movie from over two decades ago will be offended by the name of the main character is quite frankly ridiculous.

I mean, you're probably right, I'm just concerned that there could be a real problem with word of mouth when people have declared they hate it and that its culturally offensive without having seen it.

 

[M0nochromatic]

I wish they'd change the name of the movie as well.

 

[ForsakenLotus]

Any chance the movie is supposed to have some subtext about the fetishization of American culture the way many Americans fetishize Otaku or Oriental cultures?

 

[SuperStiltzkin]

That's where I land on the issue too. It's interesting that some of us think westernisation is less egregious the fewer changes are imposed, while others think it's less egregious to make more changes to the point at which the adaptation becomes more divorced from the source material. I certainly understand that argument, and agree that the best thing to do would have been to cast a Japanese actress to play the Japanese character in the movie set in Tokyo.

I think it's more egregious to say that an ethnically Japanese woman with a clearly Japanese name is white because...reasons. It's carte blanche to cast a white person in any role regardless of race.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

I was asking because it clearly isn't for the nerds, and I wonder if the general public will give a fuck. Nerds won't make or break a movie but they can help amp the buzz of a movie.

Ghost in the Shell is hardcore nerd, this is basically targeting the comicbook or sci-fi movie core.
imo.

 

[What did he mean by this?]

At least when it was whitewashing exclusively, the argument could and was being made that the movie was only greenlit for ScarJo and that respect would be paid to the original series and its a huge honor to play The Major and yadda yadda puff talk puff talk

But a name change changes the narrative and makes it look like thestudio is scrambling to disassociate themselves with any controversy or conversations to be had by removing the original character all together. Its bullshit

 

[Acinixys]

I watched the new trailer and I hate everything about this movie without even watching it

The whole point of the Majors issues stems from the fact that she was cyberised at such a young age that shes unsure if shes human at all

This movie makes it seem like she is made a cyborg way later in her life, and the process wipes her memories?

Its like they took Robocop and Jason Borne and added tits to make a terrible parody of GitS

 

[Aske]

Well, she's white in the movie so what's the problem with not having a Japanese name?

I'd have a problem with it if her character was supposed to be Japanese.

I'd rather the actress was of Japanese descent, or at least Asian, but it's not like a white person can't be a citizen of Japan. She could have Caucasian heritage, but there are plenty of ways she could still be raised in Japan by parents who gave her a Japanese name. I think that's a better representation of the manga than trying to rewrite Kusanagi as a white woman who isn't Japanese.

 

[Phu]

With these kind of changes, not sure why they insist on calling it 'Ghost in the Shell'. Why couldn't it've been a 'Do Android Dream of Electric Sheep?' to 'Blade Runner' situation instead?

 

[Jarmel]

Mira is still a very Japanese name.

lol

 

[SuperStiltzkin]

I'd rather the actress was of Japanese descent, or at least Asian, but it's not like a white person can't be a citizen of Japan. She could have Caucasian heritage, but there are plenty of ways she could still be raised in Japan by parents who gave her a Japanese name. I think that's a better representation of the manga than trying to rewrite Kusanagi as a white woman who isn't Japanese.

That's the kind of bending over backwards reaching to justify whitewashing that I exactly don't want. It's why I hate the excuse that she's just in a white cyborg body. If you give Hollywood any kind of out to avoid casting a POC, they WILL take it.

 

[Zoe]

... Since when is Mira a Japanese name?

Those are just the top searches that are only read as Mira. You can google some of them and find people with those names.

 

[JP_]

"I don’t think it was just a Japanese story"

"I don't see color"

 

[Aske]

I think it's more egregious to say that an ethnically Japanese woman with a clearly Japanese name is white because...reasons. It's carte blanche to cast a white person in any role regardless of race.

I see where you're coming from, but racial ambiguity is what allows Marvel to add diversity to their movies. Culture is important to a character, but racial heritage isn't. Whitewashing is bad because the scales massively tip in favour of white cinematic representation, but I think the argument that race isn't integral to all characters is sound. We shouldn't use it to add more white actors to movies for reasons of diversity, not because the argument doesn't make sense.

 

[petran79]

American audiences.

They'd rather watch Oshii's live-action movie Avalon. More relevant to GITS than this

 

[T.O.P]

This is going to bomb like Aeon Flux. Why did anyone think this would work?

pftttttttttttt

 

[BobTheFork]

Who is this movie for?

It's for people who have heard of the property but never seen it and don't already like it.


It's weird. It's like their first attempt to make a deadpool movie. They wanted people to see a deadpool movie 5-6 years ago when they were changing everything about Deadpool in Wolverine Origins.



Also, they were NEVER going to have the main character name in a US released movie be Motoko, ever, for any reason.

 

[GameAddict411]

These sort of movies were supposed to appeal to fans of the original animation movies, but they instead lost focus and wanted a familiar face to cast the protagonist. They ended up trying to appeal to a wider audience and said fuck you for the fans.

 

[Kinyou]

Those are just the top searches that are only read as Mira. You can google some of them and find people with those names.

It has Slavic/Hindi/Latin origins

 

[JP_]

This whole issue could have been solved in universe very easly by casting a japanese motoko kusanagi, and having her switch bodies to scarjo as part of an infultration operation and it would have been totes ok. No white washing needed.

It'd still come off as making excuses to cast a white protag. Because that's exactly what they're doing.

 

[Aske]

That's the kind of bending over backwards reaching to justify whitewashing that I exactly don't want. It's why I hate the excuse that she's just in a white cyborg body. If you give Hollywood any kind of out to avoid casting a POC, they WILL take it.

I'm not giving them an out. They fucked up, and it's not okay. I'm describing a scenario that I think mitigates the damage. They whitewashed the racial heritage of the character; I'd rather they didn't whitewash the character too.

 

[Zoe]

It has Slavic/Hindi/Latin origins

Names can be created independently. Are you going to tell me that Ken is not a Japanese name?

 

[Hellwarden]

Man I have no faith in this movie at all.

 

[Kinyou]

Names can be created independently. Are you going to tell me that Ken is not a Japanese name?

Well if it's not exclusively Japanese I wouldn't call it a Japanese name

 

[Ogodei]

I watched the new trailer and I hate everything about this movie without even watching it

The whole point of the Majors issues stems from the fact that she was cyberised at such a young age that shes unsure if shes human at all

This movie makes it seem like she is made a cyborg way later in her life, and the process wipes her memories?

Its like they took Robocop and Jason Borne and added tits to make a terrible parody of GitS

Aye, part of what's good about GitS is that the Major is rarely in any existential danger, partly because she's that good and partly because the story isn't really about her experiences, it's about her perspective and pontificating on the nature of humanity in a world where machines can perfectly imitate life. The major villains like The Laughing Man and Hideo Kuze didn't challenge her directly, they challenged her worldview. Putting her in law enforcement was an important part of this, as a legal and political system built for humans may itself have little meaning in a cybernetic world, and she thereby questions what she's even fighting for.

But the technology was never "dangerous" in the way that the trailer and the movie seem to be portraying it. The tech was always perfectly safe, and the problems with it were more sinister for that fact.

 

[Angry Grimace]

That's where I land on the issue too. It's interesting that some of us think westernisation is less egregious the fewer changes are imposed, while others think it's less egregious to make more changes to the point at which the adaptation becomes more divorced from the source material. I certainly understand that argument, and agree that the best thing to do would have been to cast a Japanese actress to play the Japanese character in the movie set in Tokyo.

The problem is that this is in practical terms saying the movie shouldn't exist. The movie exists because Scarlett Johansson is playing the lead.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

These sort of movies were supposed to appeal to fans of the original animation movies, but they instead lost focus and wanted a familiar face to cast the protagonist. They ended up trying to appeal to a wider audience and said fuck you for the fans.

Fans of the original what? The original manga, it's inferior followup, or one of the 5-6 subsequent adaptations that also changed things from the original work, quite often for the better?

Also, considering how much of the imagery, setting and story is left intact, it feels unfair to say fans of the Oshii film are being left behind. They've known what they're getting for a year now.

Having a little bit of faith in this adaptation doesn't make anybody inferior to purist fans of the first animated adaptation.

 

[Kelsdesu]

 

[What did he mean by this?]

The problem is that this is in practical terms saying the movie shouldn't exist. The movie exists because Scarlett Johansson is playing the lead.

But the lead isnt "Motoko Kusanagi" anymore so whats the point of any thing at all
Theyre just stealing the story and all the iconography

 

[Fisty]

I hope ScarJo is actually a male ghost inside a female shell. Would probably be the only thing to make the movie worth making, at this point

 

[Paracelsus]

Those are just the top searches that are only read as Mira. You can google some of them and find people with those names.

Mira doesn't sound like a Japanese name coined by Japanese people conceived for Japanese people. Japanese. Japan.

Mira either is a balkan name or their way to spell "Milla". Your claim is that as long as you can type 紅愛 it's a Japanese name. It's not, it's Claire.

 

[Aselith]

Who is this movie for?

It appears to be made for me cause I'm liking the visuals

 

[Langdon Alger]

I think they're changing it cause Mira is less Japanese sounding. I'm for it. I don't want a white woman playing someone named "Motoko Kusanagi" Better to name her a more ethnically ambiguous name rather than unmistakably Japanese and then be white.

Exactly. They shouldn't have cast Scarlett in the first place, but since they have, it makes a lot more sense to change the character's name.

 

[Lucumo]

I wish they'd change the name of the movie as well.

Yep.

(Also, screw you, Steven Paul.)

 

[Dark Ninja]

Are eating crow threads still allowed this movie deserves one.

 

[- J - D -]

When I think of Mira, I think of Mira Sorvino.

I don't think they changed it because Mira is vaguely Asian and more phonetically pleasing to the ears than the attempted pronunciation of "Motoko" out of non-Japanese actors. But, I wouldn't put that reason past a studio suit.

But it's embarassingly the less shameful reason for it. You change Motoko to a non-Japanese name, you lose yet another essence of the original work.

 

[Fisty]

Exactly. They shouldn't have cast Scarlett in the first place, but since they have, it makes a lot more sense to change the character's name.

They could have done a very tasteful look at body-identity in a world where you can have any body you want. A Japanese person wants to be a ScarJo and exploring those emotions and implications. The universe is soooooo rife with possibilities to pose metaphors for our current society. But hey, dumb Hollywood action movie!

 

[Messofanego]

It appears to be made for me cause I'm liking the visuals

The production design has been on point, but not much else. Not a fan of them recreating moments from the movies, but just not as good.

 

[SuperStiltzkin]

I see where you're coming from, but racial ambiguity is what allows Marvel to add diversity to their movies. Culture is important to a character, but racial heritage isn't. Whitewashing is bad because the scales massively tip in favour of white cinematic representation, but I think the argument that race isn't integral to all characters is sound. We shouldn't use it to add more white actors to movies for reasons of diversity, not because the argument doesn't make sense.

I'm not giving them an out. They fucked up, and it's not okay. I'm describing a scenario that I think mitigates the damage. They whitewashed the racial heritage of the character; I'd rather they didn't whitewash the character too.

We're not at that point yet. It's still an argument used to largely excuse whitewashing. If race doesn't matter, then the name shouldn't matter.

What's the difference between whitewashing the racial heritage of the character vs whitewashing the character? How does changing the name affect that, but changing the race not?

 

[Geist-]

I don't really care about the name change so much, but everything about this movie screams trainwreck. I'm ready to be pleasantly surprised, but I'm expecting a massive bomb, both critically and financially.

 

[Angry Grimace]

But the lead isnt "Motoko Kusanagi" anymore so whats the point of any thing at all
Theyre just stealing the story and all the iconography

I don't think you understand the meaning of the word "steal."

 

[- J - D -]

Are eating crow threads still allowed this movie deserves one.

What? Have you seen the movie?

 

[CloudyTuba]

Was there something wrong with the name Motoko?

:/

 

[Angry Grimace]

These sort of movies were supposed to appeal to fans of the original animation movies, but they instead lost focus and wanted a familiar face to cast the protagonist. They ended up trying to appeal to a wider audience and said fuck you for the fans.

You haven't even seen the movie yet.

Was there something wrong with the name Motoko?

:/

Scarlett Johansson doesn't look like a "Makoto." There's both the fact that they didn't want it to appear like whitewashing to have an ethnically Japanese character that's just portrayed by a white character and the fact it would directly call attention to it if you gave her a Japanese name.

 

[Dark Ninja]

What? Have you seen the movie?

No but this one could go either way and both sides have had very strong viewpoints since it was announced.

 

[Paracelsus]

I finally remembered what this reminded me of.