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This is why I'm cynical about Hollywood adaptations.
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This is why I'm cynical about Hollywood adaptations.
Frozenprince
Banned
Seriously. They didn't change anything about the source material other than making the main character white. She's still Japanese. She's still Makoto Kusanagi. That's the issue.
The Ring didn't try to have it both ways, and this isn't about what Japan thinks. This is about a Western adaptation, the Western audience, Western studios, and the people who work in that industry.
7DollarHagane
Banned
Use iron fist as an example of a project that probably deserves more criticism because their lead didn't fit the bill for a martial arts master and the scenes suffered for it. In that case there doesnt appear to have been a proper reason to choose the actor they did. Iron fist's key defining trait is mastery of martial arts. You should have an actor that has demonstrated that, regardless of race.
Scarlett has action movie experience and name recognition. Her casting in this role can be defended.
Frozenprince
Banned
This is a role that could have gone to an unknown Asian American actress with ease.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Correct me if I'm wrong cuz I never read All You Need Is Kill, but didn't the movie take the premise and did it's own thing with it?
Frozenprince
Banned
Edge of Tomorrow only borrows the idea of "man at war with aliens uses time loop" along with a few character titles. The rest is basically entirely original.
AmaterasuOni
Banned
I know, but it's a huge problem if Japanese movie industry doesn't have actresses who can speak english well enough. It's really, really understandable. Most accents in blockbusters are huge turn offs for the native speakers.
lightskintwin
Banned
You tell me. Do you think they buy these rights thinking they're going to cast unknown Asian American/Western actors as the lead?
They literally take an Asian woman and make her white. It is the literal definition of whitewashing. Not even mentioning how this plays into the way that beauty standards are in Asia, where lighter skin is considered to be more desirable and people feel pressured into having plastic surgery to make themselves live up to western beauty standards.
Zoe
Member
Imagine a world where there are Asian actors out there with perfect English.. Americans, even!
I'd love to live in that world.
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This isn't just about actors born in Japan. Asian-American actresses don't get a shot in Hollywood, either.
Poor GRIMES
Banned
What are "typical Asians" in Anime?
I'd say a lot of it is the same, actually (except for the climax). They used a lot of the same scenes and everything. So I'm not sure why this would get a pass...
Even though he authored the Manga, he doesn't speak for the current social climate in the United States nor do his statements reflect the standards that many people expect to see out of Hollywood regarding ethnic diversity and equality.
He is only qualified to comment on whether he feels his own work is being done justice, not whether justice, itself, is being done.
It's a chicken and egg situation. How are we going to have Asian stars if they can't get starring roles?
SapphiCine
Member
They cut out the queer bait from the trailer, thus cementing it as bait. And there is a transphobic joke? Wow.
The people running the show are too afraid to experiment. Their current model is unsustainable, with movies ballooning up to 100's of millions of dollars, leaving the mid tier movies in the cold.
Rated R is getting traction again after a long period in which PG-13 was the norm. Hopefully, whitewashing will be a thing in the past in the future.
Frozenprince
Banned
... Wow bruh
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If Hollywood bothered casting Asian American actors in leads, period, then casting one in this movie's lead role wouldn't be a problem.
That's actually much smarter than I expected.
Its a popularity contest not a racial one. It is not racist
shira
Member
I can't wait for Detective Pikachu and Naruto liveactions
Pretty much for the most part, which is how I think most anime adaptions should be handled. Comic book movies do this, why can't anime movies? It's why I'm looking forward to Death Note despite it not looking like the original.
The problem here though is that they are acknowledging that
Makoto Kusanagi exists in this universe and are just putting her in a white woman's body. Yeah, it fits the universe, but it's so damn transparent why they did it, that it's still slimy feeling. I don't blame the writers and director of the movie for this, but the general idea in Hollywood that Asian actors can't be the headliners of big budget movies. Sadly, I can't think of a movie recently that has proven this wrong, which really fucking sucks.
AmaterasuOni
Banned
Let's be really blunt then. Are there good enough (in their action acting) Asian-American actresses who have ScarJo sex appeal to sell an expensive 120 million dollar movie to a pretty niche audience? And if you can find someone who might appeal to the said audience, are studios willing to risk a total disaster with a no-name actress? These are the realities and this is why ScarJo is the lead.
They need to sell a movie.
Yep. It's an expensive high-risk business. First and foremost they think about profits. Then comes the rest. Sex sells. Familiarity sells. The sell images and dreams.
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
Actually that's not correct, ScarJo's character name is:
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If this was true, then why did the people behind this movie originally try to digitally alter SJ to look Asian?
So Guardian review is out as well and it seems, it is not a bad movie at all with great to amazing visuals. Not a great movie, but also not a bad one. So it is a solid adaptation of the Japanese source, not as deep as the anime more like the manga or one of the more casual Stand Alone Complex episodes.
And after all the Scarlett hate, it seems she actually made a good job and played the role in a serious way as she does pretty much every time.
And after all the Scarlett hate, it seems she actually made a good job and played the role in a serious way as she does pretty much every time.
lightskintwin
Banned
Within the context of the film and the themes of identity it still works. Within the context of White leads dominance in other culture's stories in American films and the lack of Asian American leads, it's definitely problematic. Trying to justify the casting by actually making it a plot point probably made it worse. You'll get no argument from me there. I still wouldn't call it racist though.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Hidden Figures made more money than X-Men Apocalypse and Star Trek Beyond, which had well known leads and made below expectations. The reality is minorities can sell a movie it's just Hollywood doesn't give them the chance and pretends ScarJo is all we got.
molnizzle
Member
Black people can. Asians have never really been given the chance.
wesleyshark
Banned
Yep she's always good for a serious amount of effort in the roles she plays. That's one of the reasons why she gets rightfully cast for female sci-fi leads like this in the first place.
Can't wait to see this on Friday.
Poor GRIMES
Banned
Bruce Lee, Lucy Liu, Jackie Chan, and Jet Li all had opportunities in... roles dealing with martial arts and they succeeded.
Slumdog Millionaire was huge too.
lightskintwin
Banned
No doubt, but it just goes to show who Hollywood thinks of first when casting leads because that's what it's always been designed to do.
I don't think it is about the movie or if makes sense within the universe. People are trying to make a political point here.
formasymphonic
Member
Yes, it did. And tbh is was much better for it — there is no bullshit pretence of "hey fans, we are making All You Need is Kill (well, partially...), pls like subscribe and support". They were always upfront that it was its own thing but based on AYNIK's premise.
I've always felt that Edge of Tomorrow is how Hollywood should adapt foreign IPs if they know they plan on changing them. If you are going to do it, then give it its own name (and thus its own identity), and give full acknowledgement that its based on ____________.
Domestically yes, worldwide, no. I guess it depends on if a company is banking on a large global push or not. GitS most definitely is. I'm actually very curious to see what countries it does best in. Watching the trends of what countries enjoy the most is very interesting.
Technically GITS also involves a lot of martial arts.
But traditional martial arts are considered quaint antiques nowadays I think? Film is now all about MMA and you need white actors for that.
Poor GRIMES
Banned
Hidden Figures is a very American film.
X-Men and Star Trek don't bind themselves to the identity of being an American as much as Hidden Figures does. This naturally leads the property to have more marketing appeal in the worldwide market. Those films would have performed just as well if a PoC was given the lead role. We will see this soon enough when Black Panther releases.
Batou is in the men's toilet with a woman next to him taking a piss standing up, and he gives he a 'wut' look when she leaves
Maybe Asian people should try to lead 10,20,30,40,50M budget movies before crying about being dismissed for leading one of the big budget movies.
Lucy Liu was the closest to get it, and it was 15 years ago.
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Lucy Liu, who... came to fame in an office-based TV comedy, whose biggest Hollywood role was a Tarantino pastiche of a 1970s Japanese period revengesploitation flick, and who more recently has played a TV cop and a sleuth. Edit: forgot about Charlie's Angels - good point.
Hollywood doesn't know what to do with Asian actors, doesn't give them the same opportunities as white actors, and doesn't really care.
I don't think it's about how much/little they change, but how does the movie work, in general. All You Need is Kill is fairly niche, compared to other adaptations. The Dragonball movie, was just an awful movie in general, with or without the references or what it was based on.
And the way this was made this adaptation was for a very broad audience worldwide, right?
Poor GRIMES
Banned
Slumdog Millionaire and Lion made its budget back and then some with Dev Patel in the lead role. Those films hover around the $10 - $20 million budget range.
Lucy Liu was in one of the main roles in Charlie's Angels. A film with a $90 million budget. That also succeeded in making its budget back and then some.
There is room for Asian American actors/actresses to lead in films with smaller and larger budgets.
Exactly.
Diversifying casting for Asian American actors is a separate issue. I was merely saying that Asian actors have found success in the past, so the claims that Asian American actors would likely fail if given a leading role are pretty flimsy.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Lewis Tan wanted to be the Iron Fist. He had the physique and knew martial arts. They turned him down for a white dude who was incapable of delivering a convincing fight scene. Don't act like Asian American actors are slacking.
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