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[lightskintwin]

I actually had the same thought about the Get Out comparison last night. I'm kinda upset that more reviewers aren't calling out this racist trash for what it is. Hell, Variety actually called it clever:



I'd also forgotten that the original plan was to digitally alter Scarlett Johansson to make her look "more Asian". Ugh... fuck this movie.

So we've gone from calling it "whitewashing" to racist trash. LOL

 

[7DollarHagane]

one thing people seem to forget here is that the studio backing this film maybe needed a star in this film so the movie would make more money. if it had been with a random not known asian woman maybe they thought it would have made less money?

then again, many "big star" movies have tanked at the box office... so obviously its not a given that the film would make more with a star in it...

I am oki with Major being played by a white person. Its a robot and her body is just a shell and besides, Major doesnt look typical asian in the original GITS movie anyway.

Watching the movie for the first time last night I thought the major to be more inspired by alien's Ripley in her look and demeanor.

 

[Frozenprince]

The fact that this isn't now being savaged critically for the clear and honestly, rather disturbing white washing present is severely disappointing

 

[formasymphonic]

Going to see this on Friday, rather excited :)

 

[Zoe]

My point is that the character wasn't made Japanese in the original source for any obvious reason than it was created by and primarily marketed to Japanese people. This movie was created in and primarily marketed to Americans, which isn't a race, but Scarlett Johansson is a popular American actress. There isn't some bad intent here with the casting.

Any major big budget film will want to seek out popular and we'll regarded talent for a lead role. That's about financial success and name recognition ition, not whitewashing. She wasn't picked because she's white. Her race has nothing to do with it.

So we've gone from calling it "whitewashing" to racist trash. LOL

Y'all come back here after seeing the movie.

 

[CryptiK]

Why would more anime adaptations be an inherently good thing, though? What's the rush? Hollywood studios always meddle.

Why would they be a bad thing? This movie seems to be very close to its source material, whether people like it or not. I'm for more adaptions there are some really cool anime and mangas that could really do well with a big budget.

Y'all come back here after seeing the movie.

The spoiler about the main character still doesnt make it racist. No matter how you want to twist it.

 

[wazoo]

She wasn't picked because she's white. Her race has nothing to do with it.

MArvel, Her, Under the skin, Lucy

she IS the top movie star for SF movie flick right now, the choice is just a consequence.

 

[7DollarHagane]

Y'all come back here after seeing the movie.

Like I said, any criticisms stemming from poor writing, acting, plot, or poor camera work, etc I don't doubt. But I dont understand complaints about the casting.

 

[lightskintwin]

Y'all come back here after seeing the movie.

I've read the spoiler. It might be trash, but it's not racist trash.

 

[Messofanego]

My point is that the character wasn't made Japanese in the original source for any obvious reason than it was created by and primarily marketed to Japanese people. This movie was created in and primarily marketed to Americans, which isn't a race, but Scarlett Johansson is a popular American actress. There isn't some bad intent here with the casting.

Any major big budget film will want to seek out popular and we'll regarded talent for a lead role. That's about financial success and name recognition ition, not whitewashing. She wasn't picked because she's white. Her race has nothing to do with it.

Then why bother having a Japanese actress in the movie

Spoiler

playing as the Major's original form

? If they want to do an American take on it, have it be that way, but now that they've acknowledged the Japanese origins, they've stuck their foot in their mouth when they could have avoided stoking the controversy.

 

[CryptiK]

Then why bother having a Japanese actress in the movie

Spoiler

playing as the Major's original form

? If they want to do an American take on it, have it be that way, but now that they've acknowledged the Japanese origins, they've stuck their foot in their mouth when they could have avoided stoking the controversy.

Lets be real here. They had no way of avoiding controversy, there was controversy even before the spoiler came out. Look at Death Note.

 

[robertsan21]

Y'all come back here after seeing the movie.

I havent seen the movie but I read the spoilers and I still think this point is moot.

Hell even the name Motoko Kusanagi is a pseudonym as she doesnt know her real name or who she was as a child before she had to transfer into a fully andriod body. only her spine and brain is saved." please correct me if im wrong, was a long time since I saw these films/series" which also means we dont know who she was.

 

[sphagnum]

Lets be real here. They had no way of avoiding controversy, there was controversy even before the spoiler came out. Look at Death Note.

Sure they did. Cast an Asian actress!

 

[lightskintwin]

Then why bother having a Japanese actress in the movie

Spoiler

playing as the Major's original form

? If they want to do an American take on it, have it be that way, but now that they've acknowledged the Japanese origins, they've stuck their foot in their mouth when they could have avoided stoking the controversy.

I haven't seen the film yet, but I agree with your point even if it made sense thematically within the film.

 

[7DollarHagane]

Lets be real here. They had no way of avoiding controversy, there was controversy even before the spoiler came out. Look at Death Note.

Yeah, I think it's going to make studios just not bother with adaptations of popular anime in the future if this bombs and the complaints of racism or whitewashing are seen as the primary driver of that. It just means you can't do an adaptation of a Japanese anime with a big star that's popular worldwide if they are seen as traditionally white. Which Scarlett's mother was a Jewish refugee from poland.

 

[CryptiK]

Sure they did. Cast an Asian actress!

I'm obviously talking within the reality of the current situation, as was he.

Yeah, I think it's going to make studios just not bother with adaptations of popular anime in the future if this bombs and the complaints of racism or whitewashing are seen as the primary driver of that. It just means you can't do an adaptation of a Japanese anime with a big star that's popular worldwide if they are seen as traditionally white. Which Scarlett's mother was a Jewish refugee from poland.

I honestly don't care who the cast, as long as its true to the source. I mean Japan is doing a movie adaption of Full Metal Alchemist with Japanese people playing white characters even though Japan has a fair few Caucasian Japanese born actors, but in reality its a non-issue.

 

[wazoo]

The idea of a 100M budget on the shoulders of an unknown japanese actress (most likely an idol) make me laugh.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

The idea of a 100M budget on the shoulders of an unknown japanese actress (most likely an idol) make me laugh.

How much is this movie?

 

[lightskintwin]

Sure they did. Cast an Asian actress!

It would defeat the purpose in acquiring the rights and adapting it for a western audience.

 

[mantidor]

Then why bother having a Japanese actress in the movie

Spoiler

playing as the Major's original form

? If they want to do an American take on it, have it be that way, but now that they've acknowledged the Japanese origins, they've stuck their foot in their mouth when they could have avoided stoking the controversy.

But that is the point, that's why it's called "ghost in the shell", humans are ghosts and the shell is interchangeable and mostly irrelevant, and the GiTS universe is about exploring what that means for society and identity. The plot twist is dumb but I fail to see the racist part.

The funny thing is how the original publisher and even Oshii have said as much, and how they have no problem with it (as for the original author Shirow he probably only cares if Scarlett Johansson is naked in the movie ). It's mostly a problem for Americans. Reminds me the controversy about the museum that received protests when one of the exhibits invited people to wear a kimono, Japanese people quite literally didn't see the problem, it was only Americans.

 

[kmax]

The idea of a 100M budget on the shoulders of an unknown japanese actress (most likely an idol) make me laugh.

I'd rather have a Rated R, lower budget flick with that Japanese actress with a solid team behind than have a 100 milion dollar white washed generic block buster.

Each to their own though.

 

[sphagnum]

It would defeat the purpose in acquiring the rights and adapting it for a western audience.

I'd rather they not make it than have it be racist.

 

[lightskintwin]

How much is this movie?

120 million.

 

[Saya]

I have a feeling this will be a decent flick, but from the spoilers I just read the whitewashing discussion will only get worse.

If you also need to know (imho mild spoilers, because no actual plot discussed): https://twitter.com/i/moments/846753296073342977

WTF! Jesus Christ, that can't be real...

 

[Zero315]

I've read the spoiler. It might be trash, but it's not racist trash.

The spoiler added onto the other shit like the whitewashing and attempting to digitally alter SJ to look "more Asian" make it racist trash. It's basically pulling

Spoiler

a reverse Get Out and playing it seriously.

Lets be real here. They had no way of avoiding controversy, there was controversy even before the spoiler came out. Look at Death Note.

They could've avoided it by

Spoiler

not making it a fucking plot point. By not pointing to it and going "See, it actually is an Asian woman inside this white woman's body!" They literally take an Asian woman and make her white. How can anyone not see that it's a fucking problem?!

 

[Saya]

The spoiler added onto the other shit like the whitewashing and attempting to digitally alter SJ to look "more Asian"

Oh god, I had forgotten all about that... this fucking movie man jfc

 

[wamberz1]

Does anyone (spoilers based on those tweets)

Spoiler

know what the transphobic joke actually is? What's the context?

 

[KSweeley]

Look at these statements from Mamoru Oshii: http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/03...-oshii-has-no-problem-with-live-action-remake

While the casting of Scarlett Johansson has proven to be a point of controversy among fans because she isn't Asian, Oshii doesn't see any issue with her assuming the role of the Major, and said he believes she was "the best possible" choice for the live-action adaptation.

"What issue could there possibly be with casting her?" Oshii told IGN by e-mail. "The Major is a cyborg and her physical form is an entirely assumed one. The name 'Motoko Kusanagi' and her current body are not her original name and body, so there is no basis for saying that an Asian actress must portray her. Even if her original body (presuming such a thing existed) were a Japanese one, that would still apply."

The director went on to point out how a number of actors in the past have played characters of different ethnic groups without issue. "In the movies, John Wayne can play Genghis Khan, and Omar Sharif, an Arab, can play Doctor Zhivago, a Slav. It's all just cinematic conventions," he explained. "If that's not allowed, then Darth Vader probably shouldn't speak English, either. I believe having Scarlett play Motoko was the best possible casting for this movie. I can only sense a political motive from the people opposing it, and I believe artistic expression must be free from politics."

Oshii also doesn't believe the live-action adaption needs to adhere strictly to the way everything was portrayed in his animated film. He said director Rupert Sanders should take some creative liberties. "If this is to be a remake of the anime, I don't think it's necessary to remain faithful to the way things were expressed in the anime. The director should exercise his directorial freedom as much as possible. If he doesn't do so, there would be no point in remaking it," he explained.

 

[lightskintwin]

I'd rather they not make it than have it be racist.

LOL There's nothing racist about buying the rights of an anime/manga, properly compensating then, and with theeir permission adapt it for the West and cast Western actors. That's literally cultural exchange.

 

[wandering]

I've read the spoiler. It might be trash, but it's not racist trash.

I'm just gonna say that there are a lot of really uncomfortable undertones of that plot point related particularly to Japanese identity and its relationship with the West and leave it at that.

 

[AmaterasuOni]

Look at these statements from Mamoru Oshii: http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/03...-oshii-has-no-problem-with-live-action-remake

Yeah. And even the Japanese fans couldn't name a Japanese actress who is good enough in her acting (action and all), her spoken english is excellent and who has enough name for a blockbuster Hollywood GitS movie.

There's none.

EDIT: Only westerners have an issue with this. Japanese people weren't even interested in the movie in the first place when ScarJo was announced.

 

[sphagnum]

Oshii comes from a homogeneous country where ethnic strife isn't really talked about or frankly experienced that much, except for immigrants, Korean-Japanese, Ainu, burakumin (if those count) etc. which are all combined a very small part of the population. He's out of his element. The fact that he uses John Wayne as an example in favor of his argument shows that he is not in touch with what Asian-Americans deal with. And this issue is mostly about Asian-American representation, not what people in Japan think.

His opinion does not invalidate others' or their experiences.

 

[game-boi]

I'd rather have a Rated R, lower budget flick with that Japanese actress with a solid team behind than have a 100 milion dollar white washed generic block buster.

Each to their own though.

Congrats! This exists for you.

 

[radios shipping overview]

The idea of a 100M budget on the shoulders of an unknown japanese actress (most likely an idol) make me laugh.

If Asian actresses are never cast in lead roles, there will never me any Asian actresses with enough pull to headline $100m pictures. It's self-fulfilling. You have to give them a chance for them to be able to prove their worth.

 

[CryptiK]

The spoiler added onto the other shit like the whitewashing and attempting to digitally alter SJ to look "more Asian" make it racist trash. It's basically pulling

Spoiler

a reverse Get Out and playing it seriously.

They could've avoided it by

Spoiler

not making it a fucking plot point. By not pointing to it and going "See, it actually is an Asian woman inside this white woman's body!" They literally take an Asian woman and make her white. How can anyone not see that it's a fucking problem?!

Its a shitty plot point. But again it isn't racist. It also fits well within how the GitS universe works.

Im sure if this movie was made 15 years ago we would have had Lucy Liu portraying her. Scarlett is the in Sci-fi/Action Actress atm.

 

[my name is ed]

It's almost as if concerns from Asian Americans might be different than concerns of Asians with regards to representation in media

 

[ZealousD]

Look at these statements from Mamoru Oshii: http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/03...-oshii-has-no-problem-with-live-action-remake

We had a whole thread on this.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1354414

 

[molnizzle]

Huh, this is reviewing far better than I expected it to. I thought the trailers were pretty rough.

Mildly interested.

 

[Slayven]

The idea of a 100M budget on the shoulders of an unknown japanese actress (most likely an idol) make me laugh.

Hollywood throws 100 million at unknown white guys all the time, why can't they do it with other people

Yeah. And even the Japanese fans couldn't name a Japanese actress who is good enough in her acting (action and all), her spoken english is excellent and who has enough name for a blockbuster Hollywood GitS movie.

There's none.

EDIT: Only westerners have an issue with this. Japanese people weren't even interested in the movie in the first place when ScarJo was announced.

Hey it could have been someone's breakout moment. There are no big Asian stars, because Asians don't get casted to get a chance to get big. It's a circular problem.

 

[radios shipping overview]

It would defeat the purpose in acquiring the rights and adapting it for a western audience.

So Hollywood movies are only for white people?

 

[ultracal31]

WTF! Jesus Christ, that can't be real...

Yup it's real

Having worked on the movie it's interesting to see how it is now as I did recall a much longer version of the movie existing at one time but I'm not sure if it was "better"

 

[sphagnum]

LOL There's nothing racist about buying the rights of an anime/manga, properly compensating then, and with theeir permission adapt it for the West and cast Western actors. That's literally cultural exchange.

Jesus Christ you are insufferable. They took an Asian character and made her white. That would be fine if they changed the entire setting of the movie so that it was in the West, but they didnt, and they've been trying to have it both ways the entire time. Now they literally made the character

Spoiler

into an Asian who is put in a white woman's body

for the sole purpose of appealing to a white audience who can't deal with minorities. That is racist. Stop excusing this shit because "lol business".

 

[lightskintwin]

The spoiler added onto the other shit like the whitewashing and attempting to digitally alter SJ to look "more Asian" make it racist trash. It's basically pulling

Spoiler

a reverse Get Out and playing it seriously.

They could've avoided it by

Spoiler

not making it a fucking plot point. By not pointing to it and going "See, it actually is an Asian woman inside this white woman's body!" They literally take an Asian woman and make her white. How can anyone not see that it's a fucking problem?!

I mean it makes sense within the context of the movie given it's themes but given the current climate of racial politics, lack of Asian American representation, particularly as leads; and I can definitely see it rubbing salt in the wounds of people upset at Scarjo casting.

 

[7DollarHagane]

Oshii comes from a homogeneous country where ethnic strife isn't really talked about or frankly experienced that much, except for immigrants, Korean-Japanese, Ainu, burakumin (if those count) etc. which are all combined a very small part of the population. He's out of his element. The fact that he uses John Wayne as an example in favor of his argument shows that he is not in touch with what Asian-Americans deal with. And this issue is mostly about Asian-American representation, not what people in Japan think.

His opinion does not invalidate others' or their experiences.

This reads like saying Americans know better what is offensive regarding depiction of Japanese art than Japanese do.

Was there controversy when the ring was adapted to a western film? I don't remember.

 

[Pilgrimzero]

The spoiler added onto the other shit like the whitewashing and attempting to digitally alter SJ to look "more Asian" make it racist trash. It's basically pulling

Spoiler

a reverse Get Out and playing it seriously.

They could've avoided it by

Spoiler

not making it a fucking plot point. By not pointing to it and going "See, it actually is an Asian woman inside this white woman's body!" They literally take an Asian woman and make her white. How can anyone not see that it's a fucking problem?!

This reminded me of the "Darth Vader is black" rant from Chasing Amy.

 

[Sumio Mondo]

Has anyone here watched Arise? Is it worth watching?

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

Yeah. And even the Japanese fans couldn't name a Japanese actress who is good enough in her acting (action and all), her spoken english is excellent and who has enough name for a blockbuster Hollywood GitS movie.

There's none.

EDIT: Only westerners have an issue with this. Japanese people weren't even interested in the movie in the first place when ScarJo was announced.

Why are you focusing on Japan? Japanese actors get roles over there with ease. Of course they're not gonna have a problem with ScarJo. They have have plenty of representation. It's Asian Americans that get nothing over here.

Has anyone here watched Arise? Is it worth watching?

No. It's really boring.

 

[molnizzle]

Jesus Christ you are insufferable. They took an Asian character and made her white. That would be fine if they changed the entire setting of the movie so that it was in the West, but they didnt, and they've been trying to have it both ways the entire time. Now they literally made the character

Spoiler

into an Asian who is put in a white woman's body

for the sole purpose of appealing to a white audience who can't deal with minorities. That is racist. Stop excusing this shit because "lol business".

You're projecting there. They did it because ScarJo is an established headliner with a history of leading roles in SciFi action films.

Yes it's a self-fulfilling prophecy because Asians aren't given the chance to become headliners, but for a commercially risky anime adaptation I don't think you can fault the producers for wanting to play it safe. ScarJo will get some butts in seats, and her character is a cyborg. It works within the fiction.

Now the Emma Stone situation on the other hand...

 

[Turin Turambar]

I'd rather have a Rated R, lower budget flick with that Japanese actress with a solid team behind than have a 100 milion dollar white washed generic block buster.

Each to their own though.

Yes, you'd rather that.

But I doubt the share holders of the company 'd rather it'
Rated R, low budget, Japanese actress. The sure way to get hundreds of millions.

 

[Curler]

If Asian actresses are never cast in lead roles, there will never me any Asian actresses with enough pull to headline $100m pictures. It's self-fulfilling. You have to give them a chance for them to be able to prove their worth.

There's a chance that they even had Japanese actresses try out for the part, but who knows. From a business perspective (whether or not you like the lead role choice), this made the most sense for a global, mainstream movie. She's recognizable through the world from Marvel and other movies. In many many cases, the celebrities' names are enough to sell a movie and tickets. The movie industry is a business, and it's up to the team if it's about making a movie or if it's about creating their art at a possible loss. It all depends on who is making it.

I would've liked a Japanese person for the role, but realistically that just wouldn't happen, with no huge Japanese names in Hollywood/tv/etc., right now. I feel like the movie did try to compromise, but people are taking it the wrong way, and finding ot offensive, rather than something they tried to do, more for the fans, possibly.

If anything, I am honestly surprised that I don't remember any controversy around Live Die Reprat/Edge of Tomorrow, where Tom Cruise (a huge, globally-recognized name), played the role of a Japanese teen. I enjoyed both the original book/manga, and the movie, myself. I enjoy a good adaptation, if it works out as it's own, without clouding over the original. In the end, you really can't make everyone happy, why simultaneously trying to make money.