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Ghost in the Shell's ending spurs new accusations of even worse whitewashing
- Thread starter - J - D -
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To be honest, for some reason the fact that it was white folks being at war with Indian folks weirded me out more than white Aang.
The argument isn't stupid. The problem are the people who run Hollywood. If it didn't bother them so much, we could be seeing a lot of progress.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Nobody gave a fuck about Asian actors.
Heck, even during the #Oscarsowhite fiasco Chris Rock saw fit to use typical Asian stereotypes as a joke right there on the stage.
Heck, even during the #Oscarsowhite fiasco Chris Rock saw fit to use typical Asian stereotypes as a joke right there on the stage.
Megalosaro
Banned
Read up on racism against asians. They are maginalized by other minorities due to the fact they are built up as the model minoritiy. Any issue they face is viewed as trivial because others have it worse.
Then you have stuff like the LA riots. A big part of why they happened is because the media played the black community against the asian community.
I think you'd have to cherrypick the posts to say GAF's reaction has mostly been positive. And it's not really because of the whitewashing controversy. I didn't factor that into what I thought of the film at all, it's something of a wider aspect that deserves discussion separate to the quality of the film.
SuperStiltzkin
Member
Yeah, which is why I think it's weird when people come into this specific thread instead of the OT or Review thread to go "I enjoyed the movie." as some sort of defense. That's fine. No one's judging anyone for liking the movie. But this thread is specifically discussing the whitewashing topic.
Caught it yesterday, thought I'd chime in.
1) I'm Chinese, I'm from Hong Kong and I live in Asia.
2) I'm not particularly fond of East Asians being lumped into the de-facto "Asian" identity.
3) The ending twist rubs me the wrong way, but I'm ok with Scar Jo playing the Major.
4) Lack of minority representation in Hollywood films is a problem imo, but I really have no stake in this fight.
5) The film being obviously shot in Hong Kong while pretending it is Japan annoys me terribly, much more than the casting choices.
6) The film was shit and that was its greatest flaw.
1) I'm Chinese, I'm from Hong Kong and I live in Asia.
2) I'm not particularly fond of East Asians being lumped into the de-facto "Asian" identity.
3) The ending twist rubs me the wrong way, but I'm ok with Scar Jo playing the Major.
4) Lack of minority representation in Hollywood films is a problem imo, but I really have no stake in this fight.
5) The film being obviously shot in Hong Kong while pretending it is Japan annoys me terribly, much more than the casting choices.
6) The film was shit and that was its greatest flaw.
Poor GRIMES
Banned
It's funny you mention this tbh. Whenever someone says they're Asian in the US, the immediate assumption is that they're Eastern Asian. I feel like using "Asian" as an all-encompassing term to group all types of Asian identities into one isn't an accurate reflection of each respective culture
Dongs Macabre
aka Daedalos42
Stop with the persecution complex. You are not the one who is being discriminated against here. You can't pretend that we're attacking you, while dismissing our grievances about Hollywood's shitty practices.
LOL, seriously?
The 1995 movie was pretty much all Hong Kong with the additional of futuristic cityscapes. There was very little or no cues from China or Japan in it.
I don't really see an issue with it. In Australia, when people say Asian, they usually mean East Asian or East and South East Asian. It's probably because there's a sizeable number of East and South East Asians, South Asians and Middle Easterners here that separating them makes it clearer who you're talking about.
In other places, Asians might mean people from anywhere in Asia, I don't see a problem with being lumped together with all other people from Asia either. If it's appropriate in the context, it's not a big deal to me.
I agree. I don't have an issue with her being cast per se, but the way the twist panned out said a lot about what they were doing with the production and their intentions behind the scenes and I think justified the accusations of whitewashing.
Funnily enough, most of the street and interior scenes were filmed in New Zealand. But I see where you're coming from. Personally, I love it when they film stuff in Sydney, but I'm mostly amused like when they pretended Sydney was Tokyo for The Wolverine. I don't think I've been annoyed by it.
It's an American thing.
Via Purifico
Banned
I see this type of bullshit far too often as well. It's like somehow getting a minority to chime on obvious bullshit cancels out the problem for those who are being effected by it.
I remember a thread on The Order 1886 that didn't have brown people, and someone in there kept posting a picture of the creator cause somehow that makes the problem go away and other minorities can't possibly be racist to one another.
Via Purifico
Banned
Not as dumb as this post.
It's mediocre at best.
The only reason i would say for you to go is, that the Japanese version is dubbed by the original voice actors.
So there's that.
Via Purifico
Banned
I saw the movie and think some scenes were very well done but that twist totally killed the experience for me. This is one of those situations where they tried to have their cake and eat it too and it backfired.
I don't see how they thought that was ok.
I don't see how they thought that was ok.
Dash_Riprock
Member
Oh look, another junior with an idiot post.
milkham
Member
You know, Anakin was a slave
SuperStiltzkin
Member
Not even gonna dignify that weak drive by post with a quote.
There are two other threads for people who want to discuss the film's quality.
There are two other threads for people who want to discuss the film's quality.
I just got out of the movie.
Yes it is problematic that a White villain co-opted an asian character and made them White themselves.
However the movie NEVER glorified this position. In fact it made it quite horrific in my opinion. They stole this person's SOUL and IDENTITY, and made them white, not asian. I guess I don't see such an issue that you guys have made out of it. This movie did not celebrate turning this Asian woman into a white woman.
Yes it is problematic that a White villain co-opted an asian character and made them White themselves.
However the movie NEVER glorified this position. In fact it made it quite horrific in my opinion. They stole this person's SOUL and IDENTITY, and made them white, not asian. I guess I don't see such an issue that you guys have made out of it. This movie did not celebrate turning this Asian woman into a white woman.
He liked sand you know
look things like this always baffle me because the fact remains the source material is unchanged, the original anime is an unchanged beloved masterpiece and we all have it forever. so somebody makes a live action movie adaption based on the anime and i'm supposed to rage that its not a perfect adaptation?! if its good i'll watch if not maybe still will but it will never change the original. its always there.
SuperStiltzkin
Member
You are really missing the point of this whole thread.
This thread isn't about that though...
Via Purifico
Banned
Which is most likely intentional lol I wont even bother with a quote.
okay maybe you're right, i assumed this was about everyone getting up in arms over there being somebody white when its based on anime so they have to be asian. i don't think that matters as much as some others think. you cast somebody you think looks like the character, and more times than not (like speed racer) they don't look asian, but more like a western movie star. anyways, my bad. but go ahead, lets all call names and boast seniority .
i understand this ending scene seems misguided, but likely coincidental. i can see how anyone would take offense, but i still think that if you're one of those people who think any american made adaptation of an anime is whitewashed since they didn't cast an all Japanese ensemble than you're obviously more likely to take notice and offense to this than myself. I doubt i would have thought it was racist or offensive if i had seen it before this thread.
in the end, its a just a movie and just because its live action it doesn't mean its the end all final say on the story. on that note, i'm gonna watch the original again, its been about year or so, but I can almost guarantee its still better than this new version.
SuperStiltzkin
Member
You really should watch the movie and maybe read the thread if you still don't know what we're talking about.
Sigh...
Just got out of it. I think some of the controversy regarding specifically the twist is overblown. They're not portraying Major/ScarJo as being perfect and the act of what happened to her is viewed as being negative. It's not portrayed as a good thing and the film condemns that. The problem is a larger issue with the script in the movie is really fucking stupid and simplified. A smarter film would have delved much more into that and outright discussed it ala Get Out. It's essentially Get Out but without any of the social commentary and being made by a white person. So the whole thing comes off more as insensitive rather than insightful. It's just too half-assed along with a number of other elements in the script.
Oh and whoever earlier in this thread was saying the film had a transphobic joke was being a dumbass. It's a complete misreading of the scene.
Oh and whoever earlier in this thread was saying the film had a transphobic joke was being a dumbass. It's a complete misreading of the scene.
You know what they say...
firehawk12
Subete no aware
The twist sounds like an entirely misguided attempt to resolve the problems with the casting in the first place. Like are they apologizing for basically buying into the systemic racism of Hollywood casting? I found it hilarious that they did that to two Asian characters too. It's like an extra dollop of hilarity.
Via Purifico
Banned
It was bad enough with the major but they did it with Kuze as well and I couldn't help but roll my eyes and shake my head.
SuperStiltzkin
Member
Of course there's no malicious intent with the twist. I'm not calling Rupert Sanders or any of the writers racist. But it comes off as someone trying really hard to prove they aren't racist. A smarter and ballsier film would have made the theme of race front and center and addressed white beauty standards outright. But it doesn't, and it comes off as tone deaf and self serving. "Hey we're well aware of what we're gonna do and we're sorry, but we still gonna do it." And they kept Scarjo cause they want to keep her for a sequel. Business decisions being masked as progressive commentary is what I saw it as.
Well I think it actually could have worked if the script was smarter. Of course then it would have just became a Get Out ripoff. If the film talked more about the loss of identity and culture it could have had some bite to it. The problem is that the film just shoves it in at the end and so it becomes a 'twist' rather than a larger cultural message about the merging of identities.
That's a problem the movie has during the entire runtime in that it doesn't want to spend enough time on any particular aspect to make anything meaningful.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
So...not Get Out
I have a feeling people are going to start misusing Get Out as their go-to comparison from now on because it's highly regarded and racially sensitive therefore relatively safe against criticism.
It's like saying Psycho is like The Color Purple only not about black people and with several murders
FinaruDensetsu
Member
Lol so dumb. Dumbasses should have just The Departed (because we all know there's no way they were gonna do it the right way with Asian actors) it like everyone was saying but of course they wanted their cake and eat it too in keeping the original character names and stuff to appeal to as large an audience as possible. Backfiiiire.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
I wonder if the director or writer has come out and explained what they were thinking. I assume evil corporations stealing brains and whatnot is fine, but if they really thought that this would make the anime fans happy by having some version of Motoko in the movie... they probably could have made the same point without making it just stick out as something a bit tone death by just making the original brain someone completely original.
spiderman123
Member
I just see the human race and cyborgs in the film.
FinaruDensetsu
Member
There's are no races because I'm colorblind. Therefore white people are no race and simultaneously all races.
Both films are about a loss of identity/culture. It's a very apt comparison.
Yea making her Motoko was a poor decision in of itself. The movie throws so many GitS references in there that I do wonder whether it was supposed to be a homage as well. I mean this film takes liberally from SAC as well, and not just the Kuze character, so I wonder if that was initially done as another form of fanservice.
Elegant Weapon
Member
"interesting" attempt to segue into a black vs asian thing with these two posts, complete with "the media played the black community against the asians" with no mention of the korean shop owner killing Latasha Harlins, of course
seriously, what a bullshit superficial examination of the tensions between black & korean communities around the time of the LA riots
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
I suppose it could seem that way depending on your experiences.
? What?
FinaruDensetsu
Member
To be honest at this point in time it's really only more progressive about black people and even then they're not doing that well. Asians aren't really even on the radar.
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