Matt Damon in the Great Wall film.
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Ghost in the Shell's ending spurs new accusations of even worse whitewashing
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Matt Damon in the Great Wall film.
smileyforall220
Member
I merely countered the claim that the Great Wall is white washing. I never stated nor implied that it counters whitewashing in the United States Hollywood market, instead many here simply jumped to that conclusion.
DangerMouse
Member
Yes, many people have said that the action scenes are quite good, so you should see it if you're interested.
I hope to see sometime this week.
harriet the spy
Member
Ahah. Thanks. Completely forgot about this movie.
The problem is that your quest for precision comes off as apologism in a thread like this.
WrenchNinja
Member
Actually, people dismissing a minority's claim and siding with an industry that has history of racial discrimination sounds very Trump like, as is using an "I have black friends" argument with regards to casting a black actor to dismiss Asian racism.
Sounds more like you're in camp damage control.
Great Wall is more grabbing a random foreign star for the co star spot and shoving him in a Chinese film, ala Dragon's Gate(The one with Adrain Brody?). They've been doing it for a while, just Great Wall has been the biggest release. China is hungry for the international money, without a single idea how to actually make a film that does appeal to the international market.
GiTS on the other hand is an American production, taking basically the environment, story, and culture of the flick and inserting generic white leads. This is stuff like 21 or Last Samurai again. Where they believe an all Asian cast can not hold a flick.
It's interesting I think to see how ironically, both countries industries are so dense to the issue. One leads, one wants to be the leader. And both are going to flop. While Vin is taking full advantage of an international cast and making bank.
Of course, because by your own words you 'countered the claim' by bringing up diversity issues in Bollywood and Japan. Like the other poster said by making the culture loook 'cool' admirable within the storyline doesn't nrgate the fact that the lead in a Chinese story is a caucasian; fetishization isnt a net positive. If I make the black sidekick the coolest character in a movie doesnt negate the fact he's a sidekick
speak_easy
Banned
Do people get pissed when they have white or black people voicing Japanese characters in anime?
smileyforall220
Member
I mean, I was labeled a trump supporter for simply discussing a point that I saw was incorrect. Clearly discussion has devolved to the point of meaningless conversation in this thread already.
What...
Dash_Riprock
Member
Holy fuck the Whataboutism juniors are out in full force today.
speak_easy
Banned
I mean that what's this is about. They got a white girl to play a Japanese character. Is anyone pissed they have a white guy voicing a character like Shinji Ikari?
smileyforall220
Member
I mean, was I wrong though? Most white people in Chinese films are token characters/stereotypes. My point by bringing it up was to compare white washing and han washing as being pretty similar. Both countries have issues of having one dominant ethnicity representing most film roles with other ethnicities representing token parts.
SuperStiltzkin
Member
Yes.
The Major is Motoko Kusanagi and has a Japanese mother in this movie. They put her brain in Scarjo.
Also it's easier for white people to say "race doesn't matter." Because there are tons of other white characters to turn to. PoC have very few.
Who the fuck is trashing the movie's cinematography and visuals? Did you get lost in the wrong thread?
Also I see where you stand now. All this is just SJW outrage culture at work and you don't think there's anything worth discussing on the politics of this film.
Atraveller
Banned
Where do I even start? You are comparing China, a racially monotonous country to one that is not, in your attempt to whatabout this thread. And it's only "Han-washing" if they give Chinese white roles.
It's a defintion of a strawman argument though; if thats the case we can explain and reason away a wide variety of things from cultural appropriation in this thread to human rights violations and worse because 'everybody does it'.
Dash_Riprock
Member
holy shit people, let's do this
I think smiley has hit every single one of these in the past couple days.
All of them. Put forth a debate that isn't pathetic whataboutism and then we'll talk.
smileyforall220
Member
Pray tell which ones? I know it's easier to insult me then actually debate my points.
speak_easy
Banned
Ok, on the subject of cultural appropriation. Do you advocate a complete separation of cultures and cultural knowledge so that there can be no appropriation?
How far does the cultural appropriation rabbit hole go, should be get outraged over appropriations from the past few thousand years?
Additionally how would you stop "appropriation" and dissemination In the Information Age.
How far does the cultural appropriation rabbit hole go, should be get outraged over appropriations from the past few thousand years?
Additionally how would you stop "appropriation" and dissemination In the Information Age.
SuperStiltzkin
Member
SHINJI IKARI IS STILL JAPANESE. HE DOESN'T HAVE THE FACE OF BRAD PITT.
This isn't cultural appropriation. This is whitewashing.
THEY. PUT. A. JAPANESE. BRAIN. IN. A. WHITE. BODY. THIS IS A THING THAT HAPPENED IN THE MOVIE.
The Giant
Banned
holy shit people, let's do this
Should add Western White people find everything offensive.
For the record, I'm black, & I'm completely on your side as far as the representation of people of color in film goes. It sucks. But if the film is based on an existing character & that character's race doesn't define them, I don't think it should matter. As far as 2017 movie, if they were going to address the whitewashing, there should have a been a better way to go about it, but not saying anything would have made people just as angry.
Slow your roll. I think it's worth discussing, but not at the expense of everything else involved with the first big budget western anime adaptation. As I've pointed out, it has three threads dedicated to it for some reason.
When Death Note is released, I hope that there won't be three different threads all derailed into how it's bad that Light is white and L being black is just a distraction from some sinister ulterior motive.
Most of all I disagree that the movie ignoring her race entirely would have solved anything - whitewashing is whitewashing. But we knew this was the case ever since Scarjo was cast.
smileyforall220
Member
Gotcha still trolling then. You are what's wrong with this forum, with your shit posting.
Dash_Riprock
Member
I'm not the one defending racism in films ;-)
Actually, the Han majority aside, China is actually pretty ethnically diverse considering there 50+ recognized different ethnic groups by the Chinese government. Hell, Russian Chinese are a thing (ethnic Russians but they've just been in China since forever so they're Chinese).
You can borrow cultural aspects as long as you approach the culture respectfully...not to say there arent grey areas but imho its rarer then one would believe. Like there's miles difference between someone lets say admiring black music and deciding to become a rap/jazz artist and someone dressing up in blackface for halloween, lol.
Culture will always bleed into each other, particularly in the information age. The problem is how its done, and understanding that since culture can be subjective that even if someone means no harm doesn't mean that it isnt ultimately wrong (ie, I dont think any redskins fans hate native americans but that doesnt mean the logo isnt problematic as hell)
Atraveller
Banned
I know, that's why I used the word "racially", that guy was really fixated on white people.
SuperStiltzkin
Member
I'm Asian.
I don't think the industry is at a point where we can say "race doesn't matter." These things should be brought up and debated.
Not saying anything would have been better. Had it just been Mira Killian, new original character, I'd be more okay with it. What they did made it worse.
What is at expense here? Anime acceptance in the west? An onslaught of live action anime adaptations? I'm fine sacrificing that so hollywood can get a clue. I think it's worse to sacrifice these discussions just for the sake of anime.
Light isn't an Asian dude trapped in a white body. At least he better not be. GitS should have done what Netflix Death Note is doing.
I literally called this out like an hour before they posted and on the same page:
WrenchNinja
Member
Dash_Riprock
Member
Yeah. I really liked Doctor Strange and thought Tilda Swinton was great in it, but I will also be the FIRST person to say that her casting and the reasons behind it piss me off.
MugiwaraCole
Member
The argument that you can change the race of a minority character simply because their race isn't crucial to the plot is extremely stupid. You don't always need a reason for a character to be a certain race. Sometimes they just fucking are. There are plenty of white characters to look to as is. They're not typically white for any reason other than white is seen as the default. When we're in a world where a protagonist can just be a person of color for no reason other than the creator envisioned them as such, we'll have got somewhere. That argument just ends up justifying the whitewashing of characters that could further push diversity.
The source material's Japanese city was based on Hong Kong too.
speak_easy
Banned
I agree respect has been the ingredient missing for some time.
The thing is, as soon as a writer takes a stance of "race doesn't matter" a white person somehow ends up cast in that role. I've heard a few interviews where a writer will have a race in mind but if it isn't explicitly on the page the casting director just assumes they're white and refuses to budge on it. That's the sort of thing you're fighting against before you get to situations like this where it was explicitly supposed to be an Asian character the whole time and they still somehow end up casting a white person.
smileyforall220
Member
Yeah it's weird because the original movie has a vague setting that combines Kowloon city, china and Japan. While the tv show seemed very much more Japanese.
Dash_Riprock
Member
This reminds me of when The Last Airbender was being released and some of the extras in the film revealed some info about the casting process. Basically, for all the extra roles, the casting sheets specified "Must be of Asian descent" while for the heroes, the casting sheet called for "White or other ethnicity." The extras said they didn't even bother trying to audition for the main character roles when they saw that because "White or other ethnicity" is Hollywood code for "We want a white guy but we're putting that last bit in so we don't look racist."
"I'm picturing a white guy in my head but maybe* a person of colour will blow me away"
*probably not though
WrenchNinja
Member
Hard to believe Aang Aint White started 8 years ago
Dash_Riprock
Member
8 years later and the hypocrisy of M. Night casting white leads but insisting on changing the pronunciation of the characters' names to be "more eastern" still irks me.
Angelus Errare
Banned
"Race doesn't matter/best person for the job" 99.8% of the time results in a white straight male.
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