Not that I disagree, but he went out of his way in the QL to say that aside from one big story thing (not sure what it is), the game does just poke at it. On the one hand, yeah, if you're going to do something with your game, make it a statement. On the other, it's so expected of South Park at this point that it's almost easy to overlook and just say "also, obviously, there's PC Principal making microagression jokes and the Canadians Built That Wall."
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Giant Bomb |OT33| LOOK AT THAT CORN!
- Thread starter Death Metalist
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Not that I disagree, but he went out of his way in the QL to say that aside from one big story thing (not sure what it is), the game does just poke at it. On the one hand, yeah, if you're going to do something with your game, make it a statement. On the other, it's so expected of South Park at this point that it's almost easy to overlook and just say "also, obviously, there's PC Principal making microagression jokes and the Canadians Built That Wall."
I do strongly feel that reviews in general should be viewed as by that specific writer and about their personal experiences, particularly when too many people tend to act like sites are hiveminds churning out clickbait and have no idea what a freelancer is.
However, when you publish something it does say something about the overall tone/direction/whatever of your site, particularly when its by a staff member, when they choose to take a stance or not on something.
I dont think thats a hypocritical stance.
EDIT: Rather, I think who works for Giant Bomb is what Im talking about here, because its on the site and that means something.
Death Metalist
Member
But isn't that the nature of South Park? Like if you were expecting something more out of it then prepare to be disappointed for as long as SP keeps being on air.
I was expecting more of reviewers I guess.
LurkerPrime
Member
Patrick's issue is as much that SPTFBH isn't fun to play as it is the humour, from the newest Waypoint Radio. Paraphrasing a lot: Obsidian understood RPGs, the SP guys understood video games, so the two gelled to make a better game. Ubisoft, meanwhile, just kinda did their thing of throwing more stuff together, without really considering whether they should. And people enjoying--or even praising--this mess of mechanics and its unfunny humour is a source of his befuddlement.
I haven't played them, but I just can't stand the SP aesthetic or humour, so it's always been a kinda no-go for me.
I haven't played them, but I just can't stand the SP aesthetic or humour, so it's always been a kinda no-go for me.
i mean it's dan's review and dan historically attempts to be apolitical insofar as he understands being apolitical.
I think maybe Brad or Jeff would have talked about it a bit, but certainly not to an Austin or Patrick level
I think maybe Brad or Jeff would have talked about it a bit, but certainly not to an Austin or Patrick level
Death Metalist
Member
Because I feel it's a waste of time to do so when South Park, to me anyways, is insufferable about it. Like there's no point to be serious about whatever it does because it tries to throw all kinds of shit to see what sticks.
There was a good long while there where the point of South Park was the equivalent of that Boogie gif about being in the middle.
More recently, though, with the serialization and toothless messages, it's just been mostly meandering, and thus being overly self-referential to that isn't going to gain it any brownie points for me.
Having watched the quick look, the best part of that game is the early Marvel Heroes-esque menus and visual design. That is the perfect way to approach the recent massive commodification of super heroes.
But having a sub-mission just be putting up pictures around town of a character I don't give a fuck about? I cannot shrug hard enough.
More recently, though, with the serialization and toothless messages, it's just been mostly meandering, and thus being overly self-referential to that isn't going to gain it any brownie points for me.
Having watched the quick look, the best part of that game is the early Marvel Heroes-esque menus and visual design. That is the perfect way to approach the recent massive commodification of super heroes.
But having a sub-mission just be putting up pictures around town of a character I don't give a fuck about? I cannot shrug hard enough.
Curious Puppy
Banned
That's why Alex is the hero of GotY 2016.
Curious Puppy
Banned
Absolutely.
The Dear Leader
Banned
I can't wait for Alex's follow up to the Most Real Award: Alex Navarro's Palmer Luckey Rant.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
I don't think they really try to dance around it that much. They've never really been shy about their stance on the current administration even if they don't actively talk about it, even the current stuff like PewDiePie some of them made their stance clear on where they stand on the issue (and Vinny later clarified his stance in his own clumsy way), and Abby spoke out about how just from her gender ages being treated differently by the audience.
I know it's tempting to label a lack of activism with straddling the middle but there are a lot of district differences between the two.
I know it's tempting to label a lack of activism with straddling the middle but there are a lot of district differences between the two.
OdysseusVA
Banned
I was so aroused
wild_fire987
Member
I personally am glad GB stays out of politics, this past year politics has invaded almost every aspect of daily life and I, personally, and fed up with it. I get that it's important but I also need a break from this shit and GB is one of my last bastions. I also think they know they don't have the proper staff to discuss this stuff with the gravitas is deserves. If Patrick or Austin we're still here it would be different...
Blitzrules240
Banned
I think tonight I shall preorder The New Colossus. Pre Ordered a digital code for Odyssey on Amazon last night.
Also gonna start Chapter 3 of Death of the Outsider tonight.
Also gonna start Chapter 3 of Death of the Outsider tonight.
The moment the duders start seriously talking politics is the moment fans of the site start shitting on them for not knowing how to talk about politics.
I'm perfectly fine with people that aren't sure how to talk about it staying away from it. It only leads to disappointment. We all know how the duders feel about all this shit. Why can't that be enough for people?
I'm perfectly fine with people that aren't sure how to talk about it staying away from it. It only leads to disappointment. We all know how the duders feel about all this shit. Why can't that be enough for people?
I think I'm here with it
Wait, how did they talk about Visceral already? It happened like an hour ago.
funkystudent
Member
There is probably a real good middle ground between Giant Bombs head in the sand approach to the state of the world and gaming culture at large and Waypoints wokeness.
Maybe its a generational thing with GB. Old man video games sticking to what they know is safe.
Maybe its a generational thing with GB. Old man video games sticking to what they know is safe.
LurkerPrime
Member
Also agreed. At the time I thought it was a good decision, but man... I was dumb back then; silence only makes it stronger.
I don't expect them to have deep, critical takes on everything (that's what Waypoint is for), but when it matters they need to make their stance heard. I thought the Austin years (months?) shaping the Beastcast were a huge step in the right direction for this, but it dropped off a cliff when he left. (Wasn't really around for the Patrick years so it's difficult for me to compare.) It has slowly recovered with Abby, Vinny, and Alex (and I think Ben on the West coast) but the others really need to step it up.
The heart of the matter is, no one is apolitical. Being non-political is political--I dearly hope the Giant Bomb crew all know this. And this matters because Giant Bomb is a personality-driven site, not a monolithic corporate entity.
That said, I really appreciated the post-election Gears stream. That was a balm for the soul.
Yeah, I got the impression that was 100% Alex.
And it is Giant Bomb's greatest moment.
to use austin's phrase, it's tough. i don't know where i stand. I think often they don't look into things and don't inform themselves. they have a tough enough time getting basic factual gaming news right let alone political stuff. but you're right. apolitical is itself political. So i don't know.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Again I think people are mistaking lack of activism with apolitical.
Is Dan a snowflake gbgaf
BreezyLimbo
Banned
That happened at like 12 today, which would be 1 hour into recording.
Also GB doesnt have to talk about politics of south park. GB isnt where I go get my political hottakes, and according to some theyre not real journalists anyway.
wild_fire987
Member
I'm in agreement here. Also, these guys run a business and if they start dipping their toes in the political waters it could affect the bottom line. Not from people who disagree with their politics, but people that don't want to hear about it period. Again, Austin is right as usual "It's tough."
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Like waypoint is very specifically an activist site.
Honestly, maybe because my country's politics isn't as dire as the US even though we're pretty much ruled by neoliberal incompetents, but even though my politics are fairly left I don't actually talk about them that much? Like I don't actively rally or discuss politics, but I take action when I can even if if it's something as small as convicing my inexplicably christian parents to stay out of the gay marriage vote.
My lack of activism isn't apolitical though.
Honestly, maybe because my country's politics isn't as dire as the US even though we're pretty much ruled by neoliberal incompetents, but even though my politics are fairly left I don't actually talk about them that much? Like I don't actively rally or discuss politics, but I take action when I can even if if it's something as small as convicing my inexplicably christian parents to stay out of the gay marriage vote.
My lack of activism isn't apolitical though.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
I mean, has anybody played the game except Dan?
Not sure I get the same vibe as some here. Dan seems to be the only one interested in the game and he doesn't really talk about politics and you probably don't want him to either (tho his only political twitter post was pretty good).
Not sure I get the same vibe as some here. Dan seems to be the only one interested in the game and he doesn't really talk about politics and you probably don't want him to either (tho his only political twitter post was pretty good).
i think about their gamergate nonreaction which was probably more attributable to lack of activism than apolitical, but could easily be taken as apolitical. i mean, i don't want political hottakes in every episode alongside energy drink reviews and loot box discussion. but sometimes it feels like there is a line?
i dunno
I mean it's all moot specifically here cos i don't give two shits about south park
i dunno
I mean it's all moot specifically here cos i don't give two shits about south park
Their heart is collectively in the right place, yes. They make more underhanded and understated political jokes now than they ever have. "You're being very presidential." "That's the worst thing anyone's ever said to me." You're right, though, they just aren't activists in the way the Waypoint crew is.
And I understand that for many video games are an escape from the daily shit that is 2017. But I also understand that the shit that is current American politics should be inescapable because if not fought the bad guys will win. So I kinda waffle on that a bit, but again, Alex being willing to at least call an NPC a "Richard Spencer-looking motherfucker" is a step in the right direction.
Edit: Calling their response to Gamergate a "nonreaction" isn't really true, but it's also kind of fair; the whole industry fucked that up by not going as hard in as it should have. Jeff's letter was good, but there probably could have been more.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
We know where they stand more or less in terms of politics. Alex and Ben tend to have political hottakes on Twitter, and that's fine. But really, there is no minimum they need to say on a podcast in terms of politics, tbh.
I guess my thought, given where this discussion is going, is: I dont think they need to talk about things constantly but this is one of those times that I feel is a good chance to talk about how, hey, we dont fucking need apathy about being shitty to marginalized people in 2017.
Im willing to believe their hearts are in the right place, and Im not saying Dan writing this review excludes him from that or anything. But every now and then you have to actually say something to that effect and not let things slip by uncommented on.
I wouldnt directly compare it with the them not speaking on GG thing which has sorta happened in in this discussion, but like... that is a time period when I distinctly felt (and said as much) frustration that they werent saying things to the shittier part of their audience despite knowing they were very inclusive and welcoming to the many marginalized fans I know.
EDIT: actually to that point Alex speaking up immediately on his own Twitter was how I grew to really appreciate him a ton since I hadnt read/seen much of anything with him prior to that
Giant Bomb isn't remotely apolitical. They engage with issues of race, gender, and class constantly.
Edit to add: there was an interesting moment from a podcast a couple weeks ago where Jeff was thinking back on the free-for-all days of the Gamespot forums and how his perspective on them have changed given how his understanding of the internet has evolved.
Edit to add: there was an interesting moment from a podcast a couple weeks ago where Jeff was thinking back on the free-for-all days of the Gamespot forums and how his perspective on them have changed given how his understanding of the internet has evolved.
Curious Puppy
Banned
Everyone in games journalism has a responsibility to push back against gamergate and the culture that has evolved from gamergate. The idea that fence sitting is still acceptable in 2017 is fucking nuts to me, there is no such thing as being apolitical anymore. Being apolitical is making a political choice.
LurkerPrime
Member
Alex's tweets are the only reason I like that tweet sidebar thing GB has. He makes a good case for the existence of twitter.
WWE2k18 QL can't come soon enough.
Be woke.
WWE2k18 QL can't come soon enough.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Curious Puppy
Banned
I was responding to "there is no minimum they need to say about politics". There are quite a few things that have happened over the years that they were either silent or reticent to speak too much on that I personally think they should have been far more vocal about.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
I got from the impression that they were thoroughly on the 'fuck gamergate' side
Like, what more do you want? What more do you think they needed to say? A constant barrage of 'by the way we're going to devote 15 minutes about how shitty gamergate is' each week definitely wasn't the answer.
Death Metalist
Member
I like how this discussion started because of a game in which your supposed super power is ripping the fabric of time by farting
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