Giant Bomb Thread #4: A thread of perceived slights

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You people willingly listened to them talk about being dads. I don't want to hear none of it from none of ya.

Not even like fun Jeff Green embarrassing his daughter dads.
 
CLOCK WIPE FROM BLACK
March 3rd, 20XX, CBSI BUILDING CANTINA, LATE AFTERNOON

JEFF is sitting at a table, spreading peanut butter on sandwiches. RYAN enters through the door.

RYAN:
I hear you got another satisfied customer?

JEFF:
One more, I get a set of steak knives.

BRAD walks by, heading towards the exit. He stops by JEFF and their eyes meet.

BRAD
Well... this is it. I appreciate the opportunity you gave me.

RYAN looks down awkwardly.

JEFF
Didn't do it for you. Thought you were the best guy for the job.

JEFF takes a bite out of the peanut butter sandwich. BRAD snorts.

BRAD
Thanks. I guess.

BRAD starts to leave the room.

JEFF
Which is why I want you to stay.

Both RYAN and BRAD look at JEFF, surprised.

JEFF (while eating sandwich)
You're an important part of the team. I need you.

RYAN looks down.

BRAD
I know. But I don't need you. And I definitely don't wanna be you. You're miserable.

JEFF (interrupts)
I just solved a case by predicting a never-before-seen heart defect. A case you couldn't solve! A case you gave up on. I couldn't be happier!

BRAD
For two minutes... maybe. 'Til the next case comes along... 'til you're jonesing for your next fix. This woman talks while in full cardiac arrest... and you're more excited in the talking than the heart dying!

JEFF (interrupts)
The two were connected.

BRAD (interrupts)
I don't wanna solve cases. I wanna save lives.

JEFF (hitting table with fist)
You think she cares? You think the husband cares, you think the... children she can now have because of me are gonna care why I saved her?

BRAD
I care!

JEFF
About yourself! About your own ego!

RYAN
Jeff.

JEFF
You're the selfish bastard, not me. Which is why you took so much pleasure drawing out this little "good bye" of yours for the last three years. It wasn't for me! It wasn't for anyone! Sure as hell didn't help anyone!

BRAD and JEFF stare into each other's eyes. BRAD smiles, then leaves without saying another word.

RYAN
Nice try.

JEFF
Nice tries are worthless.

JEFF throws the peanut butter sandwich into the trashcan, leaving the room. We linger on RYAN for a short moment, him nodding to himself.
 
Rapstah said:
CLOCK WIPE FROM BLACK
March 3rd, 20XX, CBSI BUILDING CANTINA, LATE AFTERNOON

JEFF is sitting at a table, spreading peanut butter on sandwiches. RYAN enters through the door.

RYAN:
I hear you got another satisfied customer?

JEFF:
One more, I get a set of steak knives.

BRAD walks by, heading towards the exit. He stops by JEFF and their eyes meet.

BRAD
Well... this is it. I appreciate the opportunity you gave me.

RYAN looks down awkwardly.

JEFF
Didn't do it for you. Thought you were the best guy for the job.

JEFF takes a bite out of the peanut butter sandwich. BRAD snorts.

BRAD
Thanks. I guess.

BRAD starts to leave the room.

JEFF
Which is why I want you to stay.

Both RYAN and BRAD look at JEFF, surprised.

JEFF (while eating sandwich)
You're an important part of the team. I need you.

RYAN looks down.

BRAD
I know. But I don't need you. And I definitely don't wanna be you. You're miserable.

JEFF (interrupts)
I just solved a case by predicting a never-before-seen heart defect. A case you couldn't solve! A case you gave up on. I couldn't be happier!

BRAD
For two minutes... maybe. 'Til the next case comes along... 'til you're jonesing for your next fix. This woman talks while in full cardiac arrest... and you're more excited in the talking than the heart dying!

JEFF (interrupts)
The two were connected.

BRAD (interrupts)
I don't wanna solve cases. I wanna save lives.

JEFF (hitting table with fist)
You think she cares? You think the husband cares, you think the... children she can now have because of me are gonna care why I saved her?

BRAD
I care!

JEFF
About yourself! About your own ego!

RYAN
Jeff.

JEFF
You're the selfish bastard, not me. Which is why you took so much pleasure drawing out this little "good bye" of yours for the last three years. It wasn't for me! It wasn't for anyone! Sure as hell didn't help anyone!

BRAD and JEFF stare into each other's eyes. BRAD smiles, then leaves without saying another word.

RYAN
Nice try.

JEFF
Nice tries are worthless.

JEFF throws the peanut butter sandwich into the trashcan, leaving the room. We linger on RYAN for a short moment, him nodding to himself.
Click to expand...

I LOVE THIS THREAD
 
Hot Coldman said:
i'm not saying emcee is this thread's hitler...

...but emcee is kinda this thread's hitler
Click to expand...

vldbxjL.png
 
"Monhun has the complexity of an mmo.."

Elementary school kids play it. I have 5-6 year old nephews and nieces who blow through G-rank shit lol.. Must be a "cultural" thing.
 
Persons have been born into this world and become functional members of society with voting rights without ever stumbling upon the hidden world of EVs, DVs and other insane base stats that are built into games like Pokemon. The fact that a child can play and enjoy a game doesn't have any real relationship to that game's complexity.

(also, wasn't Jeff Green talking last week about how his daughter was a 12-year-old WoW guild leader?)
 
The mmo comment seems to be talking about the amount of systems there are, which yeah, I'd agree with that.

Which is really more about taking the time to learn how it works.
 
Jintor said:
Persons have been born into this world and become functional members of society with voting rights without ever stumbling upon the hidden world of EVs, DVs and other insane base stats that are built into games like Pokemon. The fact that a child can play and enjoy a game doesn't have any real relationship to that game's complexity.

(also, wasn't Jeff Green talking last week about how his daughter was a 12-year-old WoW guild leader?)
Click to expand...

A similar analogy can be made of Chess as well.
 
When discussing games, 'complexity' is a relative term.

Patrick isn't trying to say playing MH or an MMO is the equivalent to understanding quantum physics, but that in comparison to the almost instant learning curve we're used to in most modern games, players should be prepared to sacrifice some time before getting the most out of it.

It's like WoW - can most people pick it up and play? Sure, but it'll take a while to fully understand how to gear/stat/play end-game content.

Perhaps time-commitment is a better term than complexity in this regard.

Systems!
 
worldrevolution said:
It's not even my culture. =/
Click to expand...

Maybe that was a bit harsh, but I feel like it's a point that doesn't get recognised enough, especially when it comes to video games. Patrick's not necessarily wrong about MonHun's complexity because your nieces/nephews kick the game's ass. Actually, it probably reinforces it- a child-like attitude to learning and discovery probably helps playing Monster Hunter a hell of a lot, as stuff like a "learning curve" isn't so important when:

a) it's at the most awesome anyone could possibly find it- you're fighting dinosaurs, that's the sweetest thing ever to anyone under 10
b) kids have all the time in the world to figure out the game
c) they don't have to worry about 20 years or so of existing conceptions about how games work getting in the way of understanding stuff like "animation priority" or that the combat could be better
d) kids are just naturally conditioned to be better at learning stuff, because every waking moment of their lives is spent learning.

Anyway, assuming kids being good at stuff means it's dumb and simple seems kinda dangerous.
 
Hot Coldman said:
Maybe that was a bit harsh, but I feel like it's a point that doesn't get recognised enough, especially when it comes to video games. Patrick's not necessarily wrong about MonHun's complexity because your nieces/nephews kick the game's ass. Actually, it probably reinforces it- a child-like attitude to learning and discovery probably helps playing Monster Hunter a hell of a lot, as stuff like a "learning curve" isn't so important when:

a) it's at the most awesome anyone could possibly find it- you're fighting dinosaurs, that's the sweetest thing ever to anyone under 10
b) kids have all the time in the world to figure out the game
c) they don't have to worry about 20 years or so of existing conceptions about how games work getting in the way of understanding stuff like "animation priority" or that the combat could be better
d) kids are just naturally conditioned to be better at learning stuff, because every waking moment of their lives is spent learning.
Click to expand...

I think it's your point c I take issue with. As a gamer who is essentially the same age as Patrick (I think a little older), I don't get how he shackles himself to these strange conceptions of what an action game or whatever game should be. Animation priority is not some new concept to gaming..but if I delve further into this point I have a feeling I'll open up some east vs west type shit that I'd rather not.

Hearing Jeff talk about how animation priority is what soils him on Souls is also frustrating because those games are NOT about that. They have it, but the combat is not based around you taking a giant swing when you can then running in circles till you can again. Dual equip daggers and spam away (stamina allowing) your god of war style if you want. It's just those games require situational awareness, reaction to enemy attacks, thinking further than "I can just tank these hits" like you could do in most games.

I'm not even a monhun fan (I've joined my brother-in-law in his monhun parties on occasion though), it's just kinda strange to me how a..let's say veteran gamer..could spend 2.5 hours not getting how to trap a monster.
 
Games featuring animation priority certainly aren't new, but they feel more prominent than ever nowadays, so they're worming their way into more people's lives simply by prominence, so the clash between that concept and gamers who have thus far evaded it is gonna come up more.

As for the trap? I never say Patrick was perfect. :P
 
PuppetMaster said:
Patrick is so early into Monster Hunter it is kind of hilarious...

To hear him talk about it, it is as if someone just cleared the starting shooting gallery level of a COD game and then go to talk at length to all of his friends to say he "gets" the game now.

And no, that monster he was saying was the end boss... Lagiacrus is not the end boss of MH3. He is one of the first "real" boss monsters you face. But certainly not the last. Once you beat him you can say you have started to more than scratch the surface of the game.
Click to expand...

You know, that QL of Monster Hunter made it look interesting and maybe something I should check out.




Then I read a post like this and I realize that my first instinct was right and I should classify it with LoL in the "Not with a 10-foot pole" category.
 
Hot Coldman said:
Games featuring animation priority certainly aren't new, but they feel more prominent than ever nowadays, so they're worming their way into more people's lives simply by prominence, so it's gonna come up more.

As for the trap? I never say Patrick was perfect. :P
Click to expand...

I guess it goes back to the "complaining about how bad the gb crew are at games" thing. I don't give a fuck how other people play their games, and respect to Patrick for going out of his comfort zone blah blah blah, it's just weird to hear people who essentially have gaming as their living be so obtuse about certain things. I think it's just my want for somebody to have a bit of hardcore in them on the staff. Vinny used to be that, kinda, but even he's slipping due to having less time most likely.

Patryn said:
You know, that QL of Monster Hunter made it look interesting and maybe something I should check out.

Then I read a post like this and I realize that my first instinct was right and I should classify it with LoL in the "Not with a 10-foot pole" category.
Click to expand...

LoL is seriously the easiest game/genre in the world. It's..painfully simple on a mechanical level. It's whether or not you like competitive gaming that figures into your enjoyment of it. Do you enjoy putting time into something to get good at it or not? Or do you just play through the arcade mode of a fighter and think "I get this game!"
 
Every time I want to mock them for not getting something I think of me falling off a fucking crane in Revengeance around six times the first time I went through the game and clam up.

Shit happens, bro

It's also really hard to get into every game system ever. I still can't really understand how to handle RTSes or more complex sim games.
 
worldrevolution said:
Hearing Jeff talk about how animation priority is what soils him on Souls is also frustrating because those games are NOT about that. They have it, but the combat is not based around you taking a giant swing when you can then running in circles till you can again. Dual equip daggers and spam away (stamina allowing) your god of war style if you want. It's just those games require situational awareness, reaction to enemy attacks, thinking further than "I can just tank these hits" like you could do in most games.
Click to expand...
Someone else's taste in games can frustrate you?

For Jeff, it's quite obvious it isn't just the animation priority. He seems to enjoy playing games in a certain way. Consider his opinions on Borderlands, Torchlight, PSO etc - he likes gearing up characters for survivability, even if it means limiting his damage.

So it absolutely makes sense that games where you're a 'glass cannon' or have very limited survivability (stealth games) won't appeal to him.
 
Zaph said:
Someone else's taste in games can frustrate you?

For Jeff, it's quite obvious it isn't just the animation priority. He seems to enjoy playing games in a certain way. Consider his opinions on Borderlands, Torchlight, PSO etc - he likes gearing up characters for survivability, even if it means limiting his damage.

So it absolutely makes sense that games where you're a 'glass cannon' or have very limited survivability (stealth games) won't appeal to him.
Click to expand...

Er, it's not his tastes that frustrate me, even if they're the opposite of mine. Did you listen to the podcast? He said, loosely, "I saw the big swing animations in Dark Souls, thought of Monhun, and said fuck dat"..to which I'm saying that's a very silly opinion to form. Sure, it's his opinion, it's just uneducated when it comes to that particular game. He can hate the genre for all the reasons you listed, that's a-ok.

Though Dark Souls is the definition of "gearing up your character for survivability". Like, seriously, the entire point of the game is by the end the gear and spec you've developed are what allow you to harness the skills you've learned and make the game trivial.
 
I dunno, even the daggers in dark souls have a certain weight to it. Plus they kind of suck.

Though I actually do love the big swinging weapons. Demon great machete <3.
 
Antiwhippy said:
I dunno, even the daggers in dark souls have a certain weight to it. Plus they kind of suck.

Though I actually do love the big swinging weapons. Demon great machete <3.
Click to expand...

Everything has weight, speed, feeling to it, but running around with a dagger, to a spear, to a great axe are all wildly different. Same in monhun, though it doesn't define the entirety of the character like it does in monhun since you have spells and stats to customize as well.

My point is, you can totally play Dark Souls like a run and gun action game - you just can't ignore the other stuff I listed, and your skill in those areas (specifically avoidance) have to compensate for it.

Google a speed run of Dark and you'll see how wantonly the player approaches everything. They trivialize it because their skill allows them to. I'm not saying everyone starts the game like that, just that putting in the effort allows you to (even with starting gear). But, no, it's not instant-gratification.

er..I'll leave it there though. I don't wanna turn another thread into Dark Soulz rulez. at this point it's just an understood FACT
 
worldrevolution said:
LoL is seriously the easiest game/genre in the world. It's..painfully simple on a mechanical level. It's whether or not you like competitive gaming that figures into your enjoyment of it. Do you enjoy putting time into something to get good at it or not? Or do you just play through the arcade mode of a fighter and think "I get this game!"
Click to expand...

I think you missed my point entirely.

It's not the game mechanics that are making me avoid these games.
 
Patryn said:
I think you missed my point entirely.

It's not the game mechanics that are making me avoid these games.
Click to expand...

Er, the feeling of beating up nubs or beating a legit good player/team always trumps the bullshit of a "bad community". Not playing because of that just tells me you don't have thick skin for a competitive scene, regardless of the game. Not to mention most people surround themselves with other gamers they don't think suck.
 
worldrevolution said:
Everything has weight, speed, feeling to it, but running around with a dagger, to a spear, to a great axe are all wildly different. Same in monhun, though it doesn't define the entirety of the character like it does in monhun since you have spells and stats to customize as well.

My point is, you can totally play Dark Souls like a run and gun action game - you just can't ignore the other stuff I listed, and your skill in those areas (specifically avoidance) have to compensate for it.

Google a speed run of Dark and you'll see how wantonly the player approaches everything. They trivialize it because their skill allows them to. I'm not saying everyone starts the game like that, just that putting in the effort allows you to. But, no, it's not instant-gratification.
Click to expand...

Speed runs of dark souls takes intrinsic knowledge of the levels, the way they connect together, shortcuts, enemy behaviour and loot placement. I wouldn't call it wanton.

Of course once you know the level you can avoid almost any enemy, but let's not pretend that's going to be the majority's experience, so I would heavily being able to play it run and gun. I'm playing through it for the third time now (which is not a lot compared to some people) and I still can get fucked up, which is honestly the beauty of dark soul's level design.

As for the dagger weight thing, I was more talking about how the attack animation is kinda... Floaty, which I'm not a big fan of. Honestly I could see why someone who's more used to the god of war stuff where it's mainly focused on large aoe attacks as well games like DMC/bayonetta where it's still reasonably fast paced and allows you to cancel into most of the attacks, will not like sark soul's cmbat. There's a deliberateness in the soul's and Mon hun's combat that's different enough where I could see would frustrate someone like that.

Also the levels are a lot more vague compared to those games too.
 
worldrevolution said:
Er, the feeling of beating up nubs or beating a legit good player/team always trumps the bullshit of a "bad community". Not playing because of that just tells me you don't have thick skin for a competitive scene, regardless of the game. Not to mention most people surround themselves with other gamers they don't think suck.
Click to expand...
Is this a real, non-ironic post?
 
Zaph said:
Is this a real, non-ironic post?
Click to expand...

Yes, guvna.

Communities (like gaf) have good apples (like me!) and bad apples..writing off trying sumtin cause of that in this hobby is just weird. To me I guess. Sorry =(
 
Comp mp would def make monhun more appealing to me. It ascends dark to godlike status.

Jintor said:
Your first response was to blame the victim for being thin-skinned :|
Click to expand...

..isn't he? The elitist pros won't let you enjoy the game?
 
I've been listening to the interview dumptruck podcasts, and Patrick sure loves to ask questions and then immediately answer them himself before giving the interviewee a chance to respond. There were a bunch of times Patrick just sort of took on the role of the answerer and never even really turned in into a question, and the Mark of the Ninja guy was just like "yeah."
 
I attempt to make a comment that obliquely references that it's probably not a good idea to make discouraging comments to someone that is interested in a game that is attempting to gain a foothold in the US and it turns into a critique of the LoL community.

For the record, you can call it thin skin, but I have better things to do than endure hours of abuse simply because I'm new to a game. And you have to acknowledge that a community has problems when it's had to repeatedly perma-ban pros for player abuse.
 
Tan said:
It's discouraging when you think the whole community--the people you'll be playing with--are gonna chew you up and throw irrational hate at you just because you're new and excited.
Click to expand...

That's the point though, it's silly to think that it's the "whole community" based off of uh..one gafer's post? 6 million people play the game, I'm sure you can find nice people to play with.
 
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