slightconfuse
Banned
2011 GOTY videos
Giant Bomb Thread The Third: #TeamBrad
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2011 GOTY videos
I do think it was a smart way to approach it, though.
Unless you were to devote the review to granular mechanical discussion (like you might find on SRK or whatever), the roster and the general feel of the game are among the most important things to discuss. When the game's major selling point is getting to see Sony's "All-Stars" battle each other with a bunch of references to past games, it's a shame that it has a bland interface and a roster that feels both lacking and stuffed with what feels like advertisements.
PaRappa's inclusion, for example, does a lot more to engender warm, fuzzy feelings than "guy from Killzone" or "both Coles." The BioShock Infinite stuff is also really peculiar, as they pointed out in the Quick Look.
Riposte
Member
If they seriously suddenly like "western-Monster Hunter", I might lose all hope in humanity.
What an expert can tell you backed with nuanced reasoning versus what anyone on the street can tell you backed by arbitrary feelings.
What an expert can tell you backed with nuanced reasoning versus what anyone on the street can tell you backed by arbitrary feelings.
vitaminwateryum
corporate swill
From Ryan's twitter, so it should be coming soon.
Just read the All-Star review. I agree that some of the characters aren't really that "all-star" or title, but don't conflate that for not fun to play. While it may be impossible to get Crash, Lara and/or Cloud, that's not really what prospective buyers care about, just that it's not there then turning their gaze elsewhere.
My analysis of supers are the only thing capable of killing (besides stage hazards) is mechanically sound and I can understand the design behind that. Because characters don't actually get weaker the more they are hit, it leads to less ganging up to try and ring-out a player. By leveling out the handicap of damage but making it spike during supers allows for a fairer fight on the higher level, but still giving advantages to the ones dealing the most damage that could be turned around with skillful play and dodging.
My analysis of supers are the only thing capable of killing (besides stage hazards) is mechanically sound and I can understand the design behind that. Because characters don't actually get weaker the more they are hit, it leads to less ganging up to try and ring-out a player. By leveling out the handicap of damage but making it spike during supers allows for a fairer fight on the higher level, but still giving advantages to the ones dealing the most damage that could be turned around with skillful play and dodging.
Are you disagreeing with the notion that much of the appeal from a crossover fighting game comes from feelings of nostalgia and general fandom that people associate with the roster? The game is being pitched as "Watch all of your favorite Sony characters duke it out!" and not "This game is more mechanically accomplished than Super Street Fighter IV AE" for a reason. Listing frame data for a Kratos super or trying to predict what metagame will evolve over the game's lifespan aren't related to how much fun someone had playing a game while they reviewed it.
Meatvillain
Banned
So that Brazen is totally a game I would like to see exist...
Watching the archive of the Brazen stream now. Struggling to get through Ryan saying Monster Hunter has bad controls.
Edit: I hope they get rid of classes and just make it like Monster Hunter. Make everything like Monster Hunter. Except the style - what they're going for is really cool.
Edit: I hope they get rid of classes and just make it like Monster Hunter. Make everything like Monster Hunter. Except the style - what they're going for is really cool.
From a thread entitled "What is your favorite Santa Clause movie?"
So true, so very true.
Riposte
Member
A few things:
1) Why do you need to filter your nostalgia through Jeff Gerstmann? All you need is a character list and some videos maybe. Jeff is hardly capable of telling you what your childhood was. And what a silly task that would be to begin with.
2) The game has been pitched as a tournament fighter. Look up comments from Seth Killian.
3) How a game is "pitched" doesn't matter in the end. In fact one might say that reviews are actively working against the "pitch" by the virtue of not simply taking the publisher and the media they release at their word.
4) Who is talking about listing frame data? I don't know if this blows your mind, but you can just make succinctly expressed value judgments on the overall mechanics and even allow them to be understand by anyone with basic understanding of videogames. E.g. How throws work (relative to other fighters), how that affects or doesn't affect the overall game, and is this a good thing (does it contribute to depth and exciting or immersive play)? This would require a decent amount of experience spread across a genre and a fair deal of mental footwork. It may be impossible to perfectly predict how the game will develop, but that is not a good reason to not make judgments. Even if you were wrong, if you cared enough, you'd just fix it.
Now my ultimate point, to which I've already might have said too much just to explain it, is that the service being provided here is one without any sort of expertise or exceptional understanding. It seems the only way we can justify listening to him over the Gamestop clerk or the guy chatting to him across the counter is by removing the value of thoughtful judgment from the equation and replacing it with a priority on presentation. Even then, maybe that's fine, if you don't value criticism as anything more than a tradition. That's fair because that might just be what most people feel. Not everyone wants to actual learn anything significant from a very disposable review (and these reviews are very disposable, little more than ads (including negative ads) for when a game is full price which simply repeat the known facts (like a wikipedia) in most cases). This feeds into itself quite well, as people who never look deep into videogames (also due to a lack of introspection on their feelings while playing one) will never demand a review which looks deeper.
fixed for me. Dude needs to take a break from the unfunny and LOUD jokes from time to time.
Well, buckle up motherfucker, cuz it's coming.
Monster Hunter stole their shit from Phantasy Star Online. Brazen is just bringing it back.
1) Sure, if I watched a large amount of footage of the game, or maybe a live stream where someone methodically explored the game's menus and modes, I could make an informed opinion as to whether or not the game's roster and presentation resonates with me personally. In fact, I've had enough free time to do that. Obviously Jeff is offering his own perspective here (as opposed to trying to read everyone's mind), and given his seemingly vast and esoteric knowledge of past consoles and releases, I think it's an interesting perspective.
2 & 3) I'm aware of Seth Killian's role at SuperBot. I also think it's pretty cool that Sony made the extra effort to involve people from the fighting game tourney scene in the development of this game. Having said that, of course they would tell people that they want the game to be played at tournaments. They want to build up as much interest and hype for the game as they can. Not knowing the future, I will concede that I don't know if the game will hold up to rigorous, competitive play, but I sort of doubt it.
I don't think it's unreasonable to think that the vast majority of people that will play it will be playing at a casual level, though. Crossover fan service fighters tend to attract broader and significantly different crowds than something like Skullgirls.
As for the rest of your post, you raise interesting points and I wouldn't have any problem with more reviewers having a higher fighting game literacy. I think it's a difficult genre to cover adequately for everybody, though, because the skill ceiling can be almost infinitely high. I've played hundreds of hours of Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 and I still don't consider myself a real authority on the game. I guess I'm fine with reading reviews like Jeff's to get a general feel for the game while also following the game's word of mouth in the community to see if it's worth investing an inordinate amount of time into.
vitaminwateryum
corporate swill
Drew's Twitter said:
For my nighttime run through Chinatown, I wore a bright shirt for visibility. I'll tell you this: it worked
Drew da best.
Riposte
Member
I believe the solution is to treat it like any great endeavor of gathering knowledge: rely on other humans. It is impossible for one man to cover a multiplayer game that complex is such a limited amount of time. So people should openly share information (and debate) before making a verdict on the game (not to mention realize that the verdict is not truly final). All the smartest players and character specialist should be heard and a working understanding of the game should come from both one's own experience and observing what others have pointed out. That's not to say reviews should be done by consensus (as if such a thing as consensus existed in the "FGC" lol), what I'm talking about is simply gathering knowledge and sharpening one's own understanding of the game by attacking or absorbing other opinions (the latter of which is not as easy as lazy plagiarism, since you have to know which opinions are even worthwhile and to what end - though honestly plagiarism of Justin Wong, Ultradavid, etc opinions is probably the best they can do at this point even if big names are not always the most introspective thinkers).
What I'm saying is sort of how it is already. If you look at UltraChen TV (among other fighting game media) for example, they openly examine and are influenced by the observations of others. Reviewers can and are influenced by external factors such as someone else playing the game at the same time. If a bunch of infinites pop up on twitter due to a leaked copy, that is probably going to influence some reviews. However it seems they try to avoid this. So I imagine 20 dudes playing a game they hardly understand alone (or rather approaching it alone despite playing multiplayer over the internet or with random co-workers) and within a short time limit. It makes none of this a surprise. "The game is fighting game-ish. The netcode is decent-ish. It has x number of options on the main menu. Cutscenes. Here are some weird names of mechanics they talked about in the lead up to the release. 4/5. Don't ask why it isn't a 3/5 or 5/5...".
Even then we are looking at week or two week late reviews if you get the game early and let a lot of people play it and a month or two if you begin at day one. This long process of learning the game is counterproductive to the ad nature (ghetto) of reviews.
Typographenia
Member
I'm insulted. NOBODY QUESTIONS MY GIFS.
PSO isn't much like MH except for the multiplayer structure, though. It's way more button mashy and
shitty
The Dutch Slayer
Member
Missed the entire steam do to time difference was it good?
Original PSO wasn't mashy at all. Combos were all timing based. MH may be better, but it drew a ton of stuff from PSO, and added a crafting system.
IamMattFox
Member
Seeing it again got me really excited for next month's GOTY stuff.
hearsaybear
Member
The sausage factory comment by ryan and brad trying to fist bump got me laughing.
chickdigger802
Banned
GB really should check out Ragnarok Odyssey.
brazen looks ok, double fine have a pretty excellent track record for making bad games though, guessing this will be overly simplified and boring
also it looks like the player characters are stop-motion animated (at least sometimes), which is inaccurate to the technique. the players should move smoothly whilst only the monster is stop motion.
also it looks like the player characters are stop-motion animated (at least sometimes), which is inaccurate to the technique. the players should move smoothly whilst only the monster is stop motion.
YoYo Switch
Banned
they dont like the vita though
MrTroubleMaker
Member
he is!
They can't QL Vita until Sony gets their head out of their asses and starts selling/giving capturable Vitas to the media.
The main part of wiiu games is on the tv screen.
I love my vita but over the shoulder filmed quick looks are look like shit. Sonya fault for not making kits available even if they had to be bought.
Meatvillain
Banned
Goddamn this week really sucks for content.
vitaminwateryum
corporate swill
I was thinking the same thing. I tuned into the stream a little late and was confused by the animation, since the influences Bad was throwing around all involved stop motion monsters, not people. I'm totally interested in Brazen, though. After seeing the video for it on the humble bundle page I was super excited until I saw that it was for an older prototype. Glad to see that it's actually going to progress.
Seriously. Not even an "Upcoming" box. Pretty disappointed in them.
Haunted
Member
Coolest guy in the gaming industry?
Quite possibly.
Why don't they like MH?
I think there are several games they just dismiss out of hand and that at least some of them would like if they actually chose to engage with them. If they've delved into MH before and just came out not liking it, my apologies.
Spring 2013 is still the tentative release date, but it could be pushed back.
Coolest guy in the gaming industry?
Quite possibly.
Guessing they've started planning for GOTY. That takes some time to develop, and it needs to be up in about a month.
DoubleFine's games are never a-mazing, but they are always putting out unsafe games, and I love that. I'll buy all their games because they all look unique, and I have enough fun with them.
Like... Trenched was their safest game. I really hope that Spacebase prototype turns into a real game. It would compliment Maia perfectly
Like... Trenched was their safest game. I really hope that Spacebase prototype turns into a real game. It would compliment Maia perfectly
HamPster PamPster
Member
Sometimes I sit and wonder, can Giantbomb top last year's awards?
Yeah, dunno why Vinny's suggestion of a Walking Dead spoilercast was shot down, this looked like the perfect week to do it.
Granted it will be talked about during GOTY deliberations, but there's no reason why both things can't coexist. Especially as a spoilercast is more about the story beats, where as GOTY discussion is more methodical in regards to a game's overall merit.
I've enjoyed almost all of DobuleFine's games, but yeah, they're never fantastic. This may sound a bit harsh, but their games sometimes come across as 'fake'. Like something created for a TV show - looks great, but very little depth. My personal favourite, Costume Quest, is the perfect example of that.
SteveWinwood
Member
They better, or I'm going to complain on the internet.
I don't feel like recording a Walking Dead spoilercast would be a worthwhile endeavour: I liked the game, but the narrative just isn't that dense that I see the need for extended discussion on it. Everything is pretty neatly resolved, not many interesting questions (where meaningful speculation could happen) are left in regards to the games happenings.
Typographenia
Member
How long has it been since the last spoilercast? It has to be like two years or more now.
I don't even remember what it was, but I would imagine it was something like ME2.
I don't even remember what it was, but I would imagine it was something like ME2.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Last one was Portal 2, IIRC.
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