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[MagnesD3]

Same. Bought the special edition PS4 console, the big collector's edition, even a few cheap shirts. I *loved* GoW 2018 and was very excited to see where they could take it from there - but they went the Rian Johnson method of "sUbvErTinG ExpEcTaTioNs" and gave us shit.

Sadly some single celled amoeba's out there can't handle that concept and label anyone who is critical of Ragnarok as a warrior.

Omg I thought the same thing lol, the mask is one giant fucking Last Jedi , the writers lacked creativity to make an interesting conclusion so instead they made an empty mystery box to move the teenage angst forward.

Also bonus they made a game with Thor that doesn't give Kratos Thors hammer, they have you Gears of War walk and talk in the coolest "looking" area of the game but you don't get to play/explore there and they didn't follow up at all on the interesting setups from 2018 like the country Tyr mural or who blowed the horn.

 

[Vick]

So many hot/bad takes against GoW:R. I guess it's the new trendy thing to do. The game has flaws, the pacing simply drags down the game. But it's still a 94+ game in my book.

It's obviously a quality game still, and in comparison to most things on the market of course deserving of higher scores. It's a question, to me, to failing to live up to its giant predecessor across the entire board except for boss battles and traversal.

The production values are absolutely insane, the combat has been significantly improved, the side content massively expanded to take advantage of the improved combat.

Traversal, agree. Combat, disagree.

And it features better emotional narrative beats than GoW 2018

Absolutely not. It desperately tries all the time, and imo fails aside for very few exceptions.
In order to feature better more "emotional beats" they were forced to transform Kratos into something he's not.
These sequences in 2018 >>> anything in Ragnarok to me:








Hell, this one sequence and the moments before it alone shit all over Ragnarok (but also 99% of gaming as a whole to be fair):




Because GoW 2018 feels like an extremely competent and honest mature experience while Ragnarok written and directed by a teenager in comparison (Angrboða, Thrud, Sif, Freyr, the embarassing Surtr are some examples).
Kratos himself as said already is a different character and couldn't be anything else than a downgrade because Kratos in GoW 2018 is the definition of perfection. Even his voice acting got extremely worse for some reason and that's one big damn deal to me. And he's not the only one, fucking Mimir managed to get under my skin in this one.

There are unquestionably good and even brilliant moments in Ragnarok, but it's way too inconsistent in comparison with its predecessor. It obviously lacked a director as good as Cory.

with a far more expanded cast of enemy characters and it really fleshes them out significantly by having you travel to Asgard.

Sure, it has the Loki sections that slog it down...so what honestly? That doesn't make or break the experience. GoW: 2018 is absolutely the lesser experience. There's hardly any enemy variety in the entire game, and the side content is far more confined. Perhaps it's wrapped around a more consistent pacing, but even GoW 2018 suffers from some of the same issues Ragnarok does (like when Loki suddenly and abruptly becomes some raging emo teenager).

I mean.. isn't it blatantly apparent why they did that?
He literally found out he's a God as a kid, that's 100% how a child like fucking Loki would react and more importantly you're supposed to get pissed at him right along with Kratos gradually losing his patience, all building up to: "Watch.. your.. tone.. boi."

People just have rose colored glasses when it comes to GoW 2018 in comparison

That ain't it.

 

[Halo2redvsblue]

Redfall shits on both. Am I doing it right?

 

[Yoboman]

Ragnarok cause I don't like modern Zelda

 

[Drizzlehell]

Why are people so sensitive. Oh no, two games getting compared. How could we ever cope. Come on

My thread where I compared certain design choices between Ragnarok and Jedi Survivor got locked about 2 pages in, and those games are at least similar to each other.

GAF always laughs at REEEE for playing fast and loose with bans and locking threads (and for good reason) but it seems like this place has its own set of neuroses, one of them includes the inability to have a normal discourse if you make the mistake of criticizing the wrong game or product.

 

[alucard0712_rus]

Now this, is a stupid argument.

Subjective
I didn't mean to hurt anyone but I just bored of those type of games.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

It's obviously a quality game still, and in comparison to most things on the market of course deserving of higher scores. It's a question, to me, to failing to live up to its giant predecessor across the entire board except for boss battles and traversal.


Traversal, agree. Combat, disagree.


Absolutely not. It desperately tries all the time, and imo fails aside for very few exceptions.
In order to feature better more "emotional beats" they were forced to transform Kratos into something he's not.
These sequences in 2018 >>> anything in Ragnarok to me:








Hell, this one sequence and the moments before it alone shit all over Ragnarok (but also 99% of gaming as a whole to be fair):




Because GoW 2018 feels like an extremely competent and honest mature experience while Ragnarok written and directed by a teenager in comparison (Angrboða, Thrud, Sif, Freyr, the embarassing Surtr are some examples).
Kratos himself as said already is a different character and couldn't be anything else than a downgrade because Kratos in GoW 2018 is the definition of perfection. Even his voice acting got extremely worse for some reason and that's one big damn deal to me. And he's not the only one, fucking Mimir managed to get under my skin in this one.

There are unquestionably good and even brilliant moments in Ragnarok, but it's way too inconsistent in comparison with its predecessor. It obviously lacked a director as good as Cory.


I mean.. isn't it blatantly apparent why they did that?
He literally found out he's a God as a kid, that's 100% how a child like fucking Loki would react and more importantly you're supposed to get pissed at him right along with Kratos gradually losing his patience, all building up to: "Watch.. your.. tone.. boi."


That ain't it.

How can you disagree at all regarding the combat? So much more enemy/boss variety in Ragnarok with an expanded move set. It's clearly better.

There is almost ZERO difference in tone for Kratos in Ragnarok versus 2018. I do not know where this claim comes from. He was still the same sulking, stoic, regretful savage he's always been.

2018 has some good emotional beats, the one you have in particular, but Ragnarok's dealing with Brok/Sindri tops it, and the ending is left with a lot more emotion as Kratos completes his Norse character arc as someone praised rather than despised.

Seems like you're handwaving the Loki in 2018 thing, because it just further progresses in Ragnarok. it's the same thing. It's fine to prefer 2018, but it is not some massive step back. It's basically just like any other well received polished sequel, not changing the formula dramatically, perhaps not to certain fan's liking for the direction they took, but in no way is a massive disappointment.

 

[Tg89]

TOTK is a better game and sequel. Less iterative too imo.

BOTW was also better than GoW though.

TOTK >>> BOTW >> GoW >>>>> Ragnarok

 

[Kerotan]

GOW obviously. And kena > Zelda for me.

 

[Merkades]

GoW for me, I still have not played BotW since my interest in it is not much, probably mostly the durability issue. I do think TotK will easily outsell GoW though.

 

[GigaBowser]

Still loved GOW but its taking the beatings in this poll

 

[THE DUCK]

GOW because the graphics aren't from 2013.
A game should be evaluated by its whole package, no free passes for dated graphics.

In before "its the gameplay that matters" and apologists who say portable means graphics can/will suffer in 2023 and its just the nature of portable despite much more powerfull portable hardware being available for years.


Runs away before becoming roasted duck......

 

[Dr. Claus]

GOW because the graphics aren't from 2013.
A game should be evaluated by its whole package, no free passes for dated graphics.

In before "its the gameplay that matters" and apologists who say portable means graphics can/will suffer in 2023 and its just the nature of portable despite much more powerfull portable hardware being available for years.


Runs away before becoming roasted duck......

Yes, you are correct that the game should be evaluated on the whole package.

So why would GoW Ragnarok ever win compared to ToTK? The only thing it has over it is graphical fidelity and *maybe* its combat system.

It clearly fails in level design. It's story is remarkably worse to ToTK, as is the general character writing which is far more juvenile. It treats its players like mentally challenged invalids, wholly incapable of solving the most rudimentary problem or figuring out where to walk in its mostly linear level design. It certainly doesn't' trust the player's ability to pick up on subtle queues and instead hammers them home with the gracefulness of a blue whale.

Also, yea its portable. Graphical fidelity will suffer. Just because more powerful hardware is out for years doesn't suddenly change the fact that this is the hardware the devs are currently constrained by. Yet, despite its graphical fidelity suffering, it more than makes up for it in art direction.

 

[The Shepard]

Love em both. My 2 fave and most played games of the last 6 months. Not completed Zelda yet so be wrong to put one over the other.

 

[Danjin44]

GOW because the graphics aren't from 2013.

If thats all it took for a game to be great then I should have able to enjoy games like Horizon and even GOWR but in the end I enjoyed TotK waaaaaaaaay more despite not having most "high tech graphics".

 

[Buggy Loop]

If thats all it took for a game to be great then I should have able to enjoy games like Horizon and even GOWR but in the end I enjoyed TotK waaaaaaaaay more despite not having most "high tech graphics".

Some peoples have sad fucking tastes when graphic tech is the defining factor of their enjoyment.

You would have to pay me to even play Horizon forbidden west if it was ported to PC. Barely had the will to finish zero dawn. Same for God of War. Map completely sucks, total missed opportunity to have a metroidvania game with map that would unlock with abilities… they’re all perpendicular to a central hub with back tracking. BOTW and especially TOTK blows these game physics out of the water. They’re pretty, that’s pretty much it.

 

[THE DUCK]

Yes, you are correct that the game should be evaluated on the whole package.

So why would GoW Ragnarok ever win compared to ToTK? The only thing it has over it is graphical fidelity and *maybe* its combat system.

It clearly fails in level design. It's story is remarkably worse to ToTK, as is the general character writing which is far more juvenile. It treats its players like mentally challenged invalids, wholly incapable of solving the most rudimentary problem or figuring out where to walk in its mostly linear level design. It certainly doesn't' trust the player's ability to pick up on subtle queues and instead hammers them home with the gracefulness of a blue whale.

Also, yea its portable. Graphical fidelity will suffer. Just because more powerful hardware is out for years doesn't suddenly change the fact that this is the hardware the devs are currently constrained by. Yet, despite its graphical fidelity suffering, it more than makes up for it in art direction.

Don't get me wrong, they are both great, but in different ways. GOW doesn't have nearly the flaws you make it out to be, I was totally drawn into it's world, and the fighting and swordplay was excellent. It may have been "juvenile" to you, but for me it was flat out fun.
I'm not playing games to think, I'm playing them to relax. I get enough thinking at work.

 

[THE DUCK]

If thats all it took for a game to be great then I should have able to enjoy games like Horizon and even GOWR but in the end I enjoyed TotK waaaaaaaaay more despite not having most "high tech graphics".

So you preferred that style of gameplay, but you tolerated the graphics because you have no choice. I like both gameplay styles, which is why GOWR wins for me. It has both gameplay and graphics that I enjoy.

 

[THE DUCK]

Some peoples have sad fucking tastes when graphic tech is the defining factor of their enjoyment.

You would have to pay me to even play Horizon forbidden west if it was ported to PC. Barely had the will to finish zero dawn. Same for God of War. Map completely sucks, total missed opportunity to have a metroidvania game with map that would unlock with abilities… they’re all perpendicular to a central hub with back tracking. BOTW and especially TOTK blows these game physics out of the water. They’re pretty, that’s pretty much it.

Not the defining factor, one important one. You are looking at a screen with graphics, right? Should we go back to 2600 graphics for you for your switch games, I mean it doesn't matter, does it?

And anyone who says Horizon and GOW is just pretty and that's pretty much it, has pretty much zero credibility. Sorry, that's an outrageous thing to say - especially about the last 2 GOW games. Both games have a 94 metascore, I'm not alone in this.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Yes, you are correct that the game should be evaluated on the whole package.

So why would GoW Ragnarok ever win compared to ToTK? The only thing it has over it is graphical fidelity and *maybe* its combat system.

It clearly fails in level design. It's story is remarkably worse to ToTK, as is the general character writing which is far more juvenile. It treats its players like mentally challenged invalids, wholly incapable of solving the most rudimentary problem or figuring out where to walk in its mostly linear level design. It certainly doesn't' trust the player's ability to pick up on subtle queues and instead hammers them home with the gracefulness of a blue whale.

Also, yea its portable. Graphical fidelity will suffer. Just because more powerful hardware is out for years doesn't suddenly change the fact that this is the hardware the devs are currently constrained by. Yet, despite its graphical fidelity suffering, it more than makes up for it in art direction.

There's nothing special about ToTK's story, literally the same repeated Zelda story we always get. The combat being better in GoW is not a *maybe* - it absolutely destroys the combat in Zelda which is one of the WORST aspects of those games.

Level design in Zelda, sure. That's basically the entire game though. Because the other systems tend to not hold up anywhere near as well. Without good level design, the entire game falls apart. GoW has fine level design though, it's just not intended to be a massive open world.

 

[Yoboman]

GOW because the combat is leagues and leagues ahead. Same reason Elden Ring is better

TOTK is just 3D LittleBigPlanet. Bad core gameplay and gimmick physics based crafting

 

[Buggy Loop]

Not the defining factor, one important one. You are looking at a screen with graphics, right? Should we go back to 2600 graphics for you for your switch games, I mean it doesn't matter, does it?

And anyone who says Horizon and GOW is just pretty and that's pretty much it, has pretty much zero credibility. Sorry, that's an outrageous thing to say - especially about the last 2 GOW games. Both games have a 94 metascore, I'm not alone in this.

They’re downgrades from the OG God of War.

Scores means fuck all, especially reviewers who drops the ball on many indie games because they don’t fit in their schedule (Rain world comes to mind)

It’s cinematic shit with painted ledges for brainlets. Literally reviewers creaming their pants for big brain puzzles

« Puzzling platforming – Navigating the realms requires clever use of Kratos’ implements. In one instance I needed to move a pillar blocking the path. This required me to first toss the Leviathan Axe to shatter a log bracing the pillar down, then brandish the Blades of Chaos to wrangle the pillar from the path. »

 

[Danjin44]

So you preferred that style of gameplay, but you tolerated the graphics because you have no choice. I like both gameplay styles, which is why GOWR wins for me. It has both gameplay and graphics that I enjoy.

Even tho GOWR was rated “M” didn’t trust me to figure out the puzzle by myself and has to constantly remind me Kratos is suffering from status effect and pacing was absolutely horrible.

I takes TotK less high tech graphics over whatever fuck GOW R is trying to do any day!

 

[Danjin44]

They’re downgrades from the OG God of War.

Scores means fuck all, especially reviewers who drops the ball on many indie games because they don’t fit in their schedule (Rain world comes to mind)

It’s cinematic shit with painted ledges for brainlets. Literally reviewers creaming their pants for big brain puzzles

« Puzzling platforming – Navigating the realms requires clever use of Kratos’ implements. In one instance I needed to move a pillar blocking the path. This required me to first toss the Leviathan Axe to shatter a log bracing the pillar down, then brandish the Blades of Chaos to wrangle the pillar from the path. »

I can for life of me figure out why a game that’s rated “M” treats its players like child while game like Zelda thats rated “E” treats then like adult.

 

[BlackTron]

Games no longer have genres, they just have on-the-fly generated categories. Racing isn't a genre, but there might be a few racers among sixth-gen third-party licensed character games without camera control. Which is your favorite?

 

[Touch fuzZy. get BizZay]

Not a fair comparison at all

I'll take the good one lol

 

[touchfuzzy]

Ragnarok was like the culmination of Sony’s to pivot to turn every game into a walk and talk, tell you what to do, no character ever shuts the hell up initiative.

 

[Gideon]

First elden ring vs zelda threads and now comparing a linear game vs open world?

 

[TropicanaTwista]

I voted GoW:R but both are great. To just put it simply, I would say this about both

Zelda - better puzzles, exploration, and more freedom (going wherever you want and solving puzzles in multiple ways)

GoW:R - better characters/lore, gameplay/combat, and enemy/bosses. (I guess could also say better graphically but yea that's to be expected with the hardware involved)

So would give the edge to GoW. In the end gameplay is king and GoW just does it better.

 

[Represent.]

They’re downgrades from the OG God of War.

Scores means fuck all, especially reviewers who drops the ball on many indie games because they don’t fit in their schedule (Rain world comes to mind)

It’s cinematic shit with painted ledges for brainlets. Literally reviewers creaming their pants for big brain puzzles

« Puzzling platforming – Navigating the realms requires clever use of Kratos’ implements. In one instance I needed to move a pillar blocking the path. This required me to first toss the Leviathan Axe to shatter a log bracing the pillar down, then brandish the Blades of Chaos to wrangle the pillar from the path. »

I kind of just laugh at all the complaining about the puzzles/platforming tbh.

No one is playing God of War for the puzzles and platforming. Lol. They are an afterthought, which is why they are treated as such.

People play God of War for the fantastic combat and engaging story. Both of which are top notch.

You complaining about platforming in a God of War game is the equivalent to someone whining about the story or graphics in Elden Ring. Both of which are shitty after thoughts in that game.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Don't get me wrong, they are both great, but in different ways. GOW doesn't have nearly the flaws you make it out to be, I was totally drawn into it's world, and the fighting and swordplay was excellent. It may have been "juvenile" to you, but for me it was flat out fun.
I'm not playing games to think, I'm playing them to relax. I get enough thinking at work.

If a game has a certain quality of writing, I expect to see that same quality, if not better, in the sequel. That didn't happen here. Its sluggish pacing, lack of any puzzles (just busy work as they literally tell you how to solve it within 5 seconds), and lack of consistent character development or interactions left me wanting more. Especially if one of the main draws and focuses of the title is its narrative.

 

[Dr. Claus]

There's nothing special about ToTK's story, literally the same repeated Zelda story we always get. The combat being better in GoW is not a *maybe* - it absolutely destroys the combat in Zelda which is one of the WORST aspects of those games.

I would rather have a simple story done well than a complex story done so poorly it retroactively makes the previous game feel like a waste of time and energy.

Combat is subjective, hence why I put the "maybe". Personally I thought the combat was boring, poorly paced, and not all that fun. I dont' much care for the sword play in Zelda either, but at least with ToTK I can build literal mechs and droids to kill everything for me which is fun as hell to design and create.

Level design in Zelda, sure. That's basically the entire game though. Because the other systems tend to not hold up anywhere near as well. Without good level design, the entire game falls apart. GoW has fine level design though, it's just not intended to be a massive open world.

It is a video game. Level design should be good. You don't need a massive open world to have good level design. God of War 1-3 and 2018 proved that. You can have great level design in linear games as well.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I would rather have a simple story done well than a complex story done so poorly it retroactively makes the previous game feel like a waste of time and energy.

Combat is subjective, hence why I put the "maybe". Personally I thought the combat was boring, poorly paced, and not all that fun. I dont' much care for the sword play in Zelda either, but at least with ToTK I can build literal mechs and droids to kill everything for me which is fun as hell to design and create.


It is a video game. Level design should be good. You don't need a massive open world to have good level design. God of War 1-3 and 2018 proved that. You can have great level design in linear games as well.

GoW:R's story isn't complex either, and I am not suggesting it's better/worse than Zelda. I would probably rate them equally. GoW:R has some higher highs so far, but also some lower lows. Some of the writing is great and other bits leave something to be desired but I wouldn't say it's on the whole poor. It's roughly the same quality as GoW 2018.

Combat, like anything we are discussing, is subjective. I frankly find the building aspect in Zelda to be too much of a time wasting activity filled with a LOT of jank. It's cool to see in a Tweet, not so much fun to actually implement regularly. The actual mechanics of Zelda's combat are laughable, and so are some of the fiddly UI aspects. The game feels like it's barely evolved mechanically from something like OoT in the sense of how rigidly it controls and if it weren't for the sheer world content the game has to offer it would be getting blasted a lot more for it.

As for level design, GoW:R has good level design. The only "bad" level designs are the walk/talk sections that span a few hours that everyone already knows about. It's a small portion of the game. GoW:R has some of the BEST level design in the entire series, in fact, especially at the end stage side content they have to offer.

 

[Dr. Claus]

GoW:R's story isn't complex either, and I am not suggesting it's better/worse than Zelda. I would probably rate them equally. GoW:R has some higher highs so far, but also some lower lows. Some of the writing is great and other bits leave something to be desired but I wouldn't say it's on the whole poor. It's roughly the same quality as GoW 2018.

Combat, like anything we are discussing, is subjective. I frankly find the building aspect in Zelda to be too much of a time wasting activity filled with a LOT of jank. It's cool to see in a Tweet, not so much fun to actually implement regularly. The actual mechanics of Zelda's combat are laughable, and so are some of the fiddly UI aspects. The game feels like it's barely evolved mechanically from something like OoT in the sense of how rigidly it controls and if it weren't for the sheer world content the game has to offer it would be getting blasted a lot more for it.

As for level design, GoW:R has good level design. The only "bad" level designs are the walk/talk sections that span a few hours that everyone already knows about. It's a small portion of the game. GoW:R has some of the BEST level design in the entire series, in fact, especially at the end stage side content they have to offer.

I think we should just agree to disagree on the story. I found it a remarkable step down from 2018, which I considered to have some of the best writing in the franchise since the first (which aped the Greek story structure near perfectly) while also having a memorable and adult emotional core. Ragnarok had none of that for me, aside from maybe 2 parts (the very start with Kratos v Thor and the ending with the Brok/Sindri).

As for level design, I would definitely agree on the optional area in The Crater - but again that was the only time I was actually enjoying the level design in the entire 40+ hour game.

I really, really wanted to love Ragnarok as much as I loved 2018 - but it just was such a massive and utter disappointment for me.

 

[GigaBowser]

GOW because the combat is leagues and leagues ahead. Same reason Elden Ring is better

TOTK is just 3D LittleBigPlanet. Bad core gameplay and gimmick physics based crafting

Imporsible to thinks this things if you played for more than 15 minutes my friends

Everything is soooo clean this is a Zelda game crafting is just a side chick physics and crafting are incredibubble and zelda combats is criminal underrated



Amounts of things you can do in combats staggering

 

[Mhmmm 2077]

Future thread ideas for OP:

TotK vs Star wars Jedi survivor (Nintendo vs EA)

TotK vs The division 2 (Nintendo vs Ubisoft)

TotK vs RDR2 (Nintendo vs T2)

TotK vs Hellblade 2 (Nintendo vs Microsoft)

TotK vs FF7R2 (Nintendo vs SE)

TotK vs dragons dogma 2 (Nintendo vs Capcom)

TotK vs Nioh 2 (Nintendo vs Tecmo)

TotK vs Ni No Kuni 2 (Nintendo vs bandai)

Did I miss any?

How about Nintendo vs Nintendo? TotK vs Metroid Prime 4, Pikmin 4 or maybe even Odyssey 2 if that ever gets announced.

 

[L*][*N*K]

Sony games live and die with their story, and Ragnarök was especially bad.

 

[Danjin44]

Sony games live and die with their story, and Ragnarök was especially bad.

Especially when their games features lot of slow walks and dream/flash back sequence trying sell you on the story.

 

[IAmRei]

as far as i know, people enjoy it both, but for me it's ToTK

 

[GenericUser]

I haven't played either of them. Zelda looks like it's more fun though.

 

[mcjmetroid]

... why?

 

[daclynk]

First elden ring vs zelda threads and now comparing a linear game vs open world?

the title says which game was a better sequel not GOWR VS TOTK which is the better game.

 

[Shi11]

Stop trying lil bro

 

[daclynk]

Bad core gameplay and gimmick physics based crafting

 

[RoboFu]

So basically old Zelda vs new Zelda.

 

[mxbison]

2 completely different great games.

Is there any point in comparing them besides console warring?

 

[THE DUCK]

If a game has a certain quality of writing, I expect to see that same quality, if not better, in the sequel. That didn't happen here. Its sluggish pacing, lack of any puzzles (just busy work as they literally tell you how to solve it within 5 seconds), and lack of consistent character development or interactions left me wanting more. Especially if one of the main draws and focuses of the title is its narrative.

I was fine with it, at least it had an ending and felt like a full game, unlike gow.

 

[MAX PAYMENT]

The immediate hostility to this thread is hilarious. But my answer is zelda by a country mile.

 

[DForce]

I like both God of War titles.

I didn't like BotW, so I have no interest in TotK.

 

[GymWolf]

Ragnarok doesn't even trust players to see the character is on fire with their own fucking eyes, they have to keep remind them every fucking time.

I mean zelda doesn't even trust your combat skills in general since you can pause and heal from a menu instead of having real time healing like most games with action, nintendo think that you are not smart enough to know when you have a window to heal so they cut that part entirely, am i doing it right?


Atreus telling you that you are on fire doesn't make the fight 0,1% easier compared to pausing and healing from a menu so i'm not sure what you point was.


Like i'm enjoying tokt way more tham botw and it could even steal a goty if starfield, spidey 2 and ff16 are not up the par, but let's not act like tokt does everything better than ragnarock just because of the honeymoon period...