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God of War Ragnarok Writer Champions Angrboda as Part of "Our own spin" on Norse mythology

captainpat

Member
It’s a fantasy world that’s not even that true to the myths their interpreting. I don’t really see what the big deal is with her race.
 

supernova8

Banned
Well, for me, this is my cultural heritage. Norse mythology is just something that is very close for many Scandinavians. It's not like we believe in it, but it's ours. It belongs to us. Even without having a divested interest in it, most Scandinavians will have knowledge of norse mythology above and beyond people outside our countries.

Angrboda was jotun, and for them ro make her African, just feels like yet another way for Americans to take other peoples cultures, and "fix" them to their liking.

I'm not upset by this. I just think it's dumb. It'd be slightly believable if they'd gone the eastern route, but Africa? How about we insert some token white guys into african mythologies?

I just hope they explain it. If there's a good explanation for it all, okay. Fine. They made a good and truthful representation of Thor, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

But there are better ways of doing diversity. Like making a game set in Africa, or some other continent full of stories we're never told because it's more convenient to shove token characters on us as a cheap excuse for diversity.

It's the chicken shit way of doing it.
Alright fair enough I'll make an exception for you and the three other people living in Norway ;)
 
In all honesty I was excited when I saw her as I thought it might connect to the Egyptian Gods they hinted at in the first game. I'm not outraged I keep it moving. But please stop being so dramatic. We both know that if this was a God of War Egypt and it had white people, the exact same things would be said. I thought it was weird in that movie Gods of Egypt ircc that only like 1 God was black. Culture appropriation seems to be okay if it's done by other races. Such as Edris Elbra as Heimdall in the MCU. I didn't care about it cause I like the actor. But let's not act like it wouldn't have been a problem if white people were in Wakanda. Do people say Wu-Tang Clan appropriate? Or that they love Asian Martial Arts movie?

Edit: Meant to reply to ResilientBanana ResilientBanana
I'm pointing out the complaints are inconsistent starting with the main character. The argument is out the door at step one, you can't be outraged by a black character or at the developer about inconsistencies in lore simply because of the color of a character's skin of a mythological character that doesn't exist. These fuckers are claiming a woke agenda when the game has walked it's own path the entire time. So long as the game is good, like the last entries, is all people should care about.

As far as the MCU is concerned, if there weren't white people in Wakanda, there are now.

Well, for me, this is my cultural heritage. Norse mythology is just something that is very close for many Scandinavians. It's not like we believe in it, but it's ours. It belongs to us. Even without having a divested interest in it, most Scandinavians will have knowledge of norse mythology above and beyond people outside our countries.

Angrboda was jotun, and for them ro make her African, just feels like yet another way for Americans to take other peoples cultures, and "fix" them to their liking.

I'm not upset by this. I just think it's dumb. It'd be slightly believable if they'd gone the eastern route, but Africa? How about we insert some token white guys into african mythologies?

I just hope they explain it. If there's a good explanation for it all, okay. Fine. They made a good and truthful representation of Thor, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

But there are better ways of doing diversity. Like making a game set in Africa, or some other continent full of stories we're never told because it's more convenient to shove token characters on us as a cheap excuse for diversity.

It's the chicken shit way of doing it.

So are you mad that Kratos is played by a black actor and is a black character or are you just upset about this black woman? We make Jesus white every day, but that man is middle eastern.
 
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StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
I’d actually vote for Egypt to be the next setting and would absolutely love to see kratos kill set, Horus ra and bast. I would also love to see them explain Kratos cutting Osiris into sections and hiding his appendages all over Egypt. Would also love for him to bed Sekhmet and or isis. Lots of cool things they could explore.
I dont know anything about Egyptian myth except mainstream stuff like Sphinx, mummies, and God of Ra (I think). But hey, if they can make Kratos go insane and cut off the Sphinx's head or literally demolish a pyramid into gravel, that would be awesome.
 
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ethomaz

Banned

Well...

Atreus/Loki is a shapeshifter and in the Norse Mythology is not clear if he/she is male or female.

In any case He/She has 4 children... 3 as male and 1 as woman (she got pregnant and give birth to the horse Sleipnir).
 
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Hurry and get to the part where he mentions to the no black people allowed crowd that Kratos is voiced by two black actors.

innocent whistle GIF
 
I have no issues with this "issue" that is being discussed but a lot of you in this thread are not getting what many people are actually upset about. Its not about the color of the person being black but the features of the person being african. If they had made this character a black person with facial features consistent with how they are supposed to be depicted in the mythos then lot less people would be upset (the racists would still be because of color). The same reaction would have happened if the character had asian features irrespective of color.
 
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The_Mike

I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
This is one of those things where I wouldn’t have thought twice about it if no one brought it up. Does it matter? There are blue dwarves, monsters, fairies, elves…. Omg! An attractive black woman!!? That’s not reality!! 🤦‍♂️
The irony when you try to set up an imagery outrage and end up being the racist by its own logic lol.

The shit is woke though. Its hilarious and sad to see "artists" again and again putting their "diversity" view on western mythology and at the same time being scared about doing it with any other mythology.

Imagine Allah or Muhammed being white in the next Assassins Creed.
 
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ToTTenTranz

Banned
"Our interpretation" = Secret "diversity" tokenism just to piss people off. haha

Are people actually pissed off, other than a handful of twitter randos that would be pissed off regardless?


I get the feeling that studios are starting to do these choices purely as trollbait to get a couple of disagreeing tweets that are then answered back by hundreds of "empathy" virtue signaling fluff pieces from all media outlets.

It's like the marketing department tells them to put a black actor representing a nordic godess, and despite 99.999% of their audience not giving a shit they ultimately get free advertising from gaming media.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Are people actually pissed off, other than a handful of twitter randos that would be pissed off regardless?


I get the feeling that studios are starting to do these choices purely as trollbait to get a couple of disagreeing tweets that are then answered back by hundreds of "empathy" virtue signaling fluff pieces from all media outlets.

It's like the marketing department tells them to put a black actor representing a nordic godess, and despite 99.999% of their audience not giving a shit they ultimately get free advertising from gaming media.
They are doing it for PR and hopefully sales boosts.

My last company I worked at, our products had nothing to do with politics, sexual orientation in any way, and the marketing department do zero for Pride Month. There wasnt even a memo sent out to people reminding people it's Pride Month.

Yet somehow on Linkedin, the company logo changed colour to rainbow for June.

I'm assuming none of you think that because a company changes it's logo to rainbow it means they are giant pride supporters for sexual orientation freedom and donate tons of money to causes. Most of them probably do nothing but change the logo for 30 days.
 
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JoeBudden

Member
People who have this much of an issue with adding diversity to games and other forms of media are just racist.

You can argue it's pandering and it's tokenism, but so what? What is the harm or damage being done? Ask yourself why this bothers you so much because the reality is, this stuff has no bearing on the quality of the game.
 

Outlier

Member
Are people actually pissed off, other than a handful of twitter randos that would be pissed off regardless?


I get the feeling that studios are starting to do these choices purely as trollbait to get a couple of disagreeing tweets that are then answered back by hundreds of "empathy" virtue signaling fluff pieces from all media outlets.

It's like the marketing department tells them to put a black actor representing a nordic godess, and despite 99.999% of their audience not giving a shit they ultimately get free advertising from gaming media.
I don't know about others. I'm just responding to the Devs reasoning behind the choice.

The way they revealed her in the Sony presentation trailer, to me was an obvious "Hey look! We put a black person in the game" moment, considering HOW they revealed her, as some sort of surprise at the end.

It was a deliberate choice, to get attention.
 
Well, for me, this is my cultural heritage. Norse mythology is just something that is very close for many Scandinavians. It's not like we believe in it, but it's ours. It belongs to us. Even without having a divested interest in it, most Scandinavians will have knowledge of norse mythology above and beyond people outside our countries.

Angrboda was jotun, and for them ro make her African, just feels like yet another way for Americans to take other peoples cultures, and "fix" them to their liking.

I'm not upset by this. I just think it's dumb. It'd be slightly believable if they'd gone the eastern route, but Africa? How about we insert some token white guys into african mythologies?

I just hope they explain it. If there's a good explanation for it all, okay. Fine. They made a good and truthful representation of Thor, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

But there are better ways of doing diversity. Like making a game set in Africa, or some other continent full of stories we're never told because it's more convenient to shove token characters on us as a cheap excuse for diversity.

It's the chicken shit way of doing it.
I don't see the problem. It's a game. Main character is a Black male. Voice by a great actor who happens to be Black too. Kratos was never voiced by Caucasian actors. Also Jotuns have no defined race they are not human. IMO a Jotun can be any race or color. Casting for Angrboda is fine. If the game is good who cares. Besides more roles/jobs for us minorities in Hollywood. If you let a casting decision to interrupt you from enjoying what is probably going to be an amazing game well...just enjoy the game man who cares ?
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
I give same respond that gave in Project Eve thread.....


Its their god damn game, they can design the character HOWEVER they want, you either like what they make or you don't. No devs should change their design just because of bunch of whiners on internet.
 
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zedim

Neo Member
My only problem with this is that it would never fly switching a black character or god for a white person, i cant even imagine how freaked out the same people who did this would be.

i honestly dont care about this, only the subtle agenda that you can do this to white characters but when its the other way around they call it white washing
 

carlosrox

Banned
All these developers have secretly always wanted to put black women (and only black women!) in all their games! Duh!

They just didn't start doing it until now cuz reasons!
 
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Urban

Member
i don’t think that most of the people have a problem with that because she is black. Most of them have a problem with that because they know that she is black because they want to be woke and diverse.
 
Well, for me, this is my cultural heritage. Norse mythology is just something that is very close for many Scandinavians. It's not like we believe in it, but it's ours. It belongs to us. Even without having a divested interest in it, most Scandinavians will have knowledge of norse mythology above and beyond people outside our countries.

Angrboda was jotun, and for them ro make her African, just feels like yet another way for Americans to take other peoples cultures, and "fix" them to their liking.

I'm not upset by this. I just think it's dumb. It'd be slightly believable if they'd gone the eastern route, but Africa? How about we insert some token white guys into african mythologies?

I just hope they explain it. If there's a good explanation for it all, okay. Fine. They made a good and truthful representation of Thor, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

But there are better ways of doing diversity. Like making a game set in Africa, or some other continent full of stories we're never told because it's more convenient to shove token characters on us as a cheap excuse for diversity.

It's the chicken shit way of doing it.
There is an easy explanation:
Angrboda is "the bringer of grief", a hellish creature, her children are monsters that bring chaos to the world of humans...

So the writer is a white supremacist.
 
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TagZ

Member
I'm pointing out the complaints are inconsistent starting with the main character. The argument is out the door at step one, you can't be outraged by a black character or at the developer about inconsistencies in lore simply because of the color of a character's skin of a mythological character that doesn't exist. These fuckers are claiming a woke agenda when the game has walked it's own path the entire time. So long as the game is good, like the last entries, is all people should care about.

As far as the MCU is concerned, if there weren't white people in Wakanda, there are now.



So are you mad that Kratos is played by a black actor and is a black character or are you just upset about this black woman? We make Jesus white every day, but that man is middle eastern.
Maybe you're right about the inconsistencies. Maybe it's an overarching fatigue of when there are many double standards. We are on a videogame forum that easily overlaps with other media. Such as the bizzare things happening in the comic book industry. There are many great black comic book characters and the MCU wouldn't even be here if it wasn't for the Blade movies so why did Marvel drop the ball so hard with the comics? If they changed Blade to be a white guy there would be a shit storm. But they'll change white characters into other races without blinking. For the new Marvel Midnight Sun's game they're using Robbie Reyes Ghost Rider who wasn't in the originally comic instead of Johnny Blaze Ghost Rider. It doesnt keep me up at night but it's disappointing for fans who prefer the original character.

Also is it okay for you Americans to "culturally appropriate" other countries mythologies?
 
Maybe you're right about the inconsistencies. Maybe it's an overarching fatigue of when there are many double standards. We are on a videogame forum that easily overlaps with other media. Such as the bizzare things happening in the comic book industry. There are many great black comic book characters and the MCU wouldn't even be here if it wasn't for the Blade movies so why did Marvel drop the ball so hard with the comics? If they changed Blade to be a white guy there would be a shit storm. But they'll change white characters into other races without blinking. For the new Marvel Midnight Sun's game they're using Robbie Reyes Ghost Rider who wasn't in the originally comic instead of Johnny Blaze Ghost Rider. It doesnt keep me up at night but it's disappointing for fans who prefer the original character.

Also is it okay for you Americans to "culturally appropriate" other countries mythologies?
That's because there are a lot of white characters made by many white people. I get your point, but there's a time and place for that. This game isn't that, as it has it's own style for quite some time. Now people are crying about fat Thor and a black girl. The constant whining really puts a downer on this forum.
 

Kimahri

Banned
So are you mad that Kratos is played by a black actor and is a black character or are you just upset about this black woman? We make Jesus white every day, but that man is middle eastern.

Did I ever say I was mad? And why would I care? Kratos is played by a blacl actor, but he's not black. He looks like he's from Greece. I've never made Jesus white, but then again I'm not a believer.

I don't see the problem. It's a game. Main character is a Black male. Voice by a great actor who happens to be Black too. Kratos was never voiced by Caucasian actors. Also Jotuns have no defined race they are not human. IMO a Jotun can be any race or color. Casting for Angrboda is fine. If the game is good who cares. Besides more roles/jobs for us minorities in Hollywood. If you let a casting decision to interrupt you from enjoying what is probably going to be an amazing game well...just enjoy the game man who cares ?
I said I'm not upset by it. I said I think it's stupid. Big difference.

I don't care if it's a game or a movie or a history book. What does that matter? It's still norse mythology and I'd just prefer if it was faithful to where norse mythology is from. Good on you for getting oportunities, but it's still the chicken shit way of doing it.

You'd have way more work if they went all in on other ethnicities. But no, it's always the european ones that need a little bit of diversity inserted. I guess it's safer that way, less of a risk. But it's still dumb. Cause instead of going to places that would make a ton of believable sense, like mongolians, or middle eastern people, it's always Africa.

I kinda hope the thing is a segway to go to Egypt, I'd play a GoW set in Egypt.

There is an easy explanation:
Angrboda is "the bringer of grief", a hellish creature, her children are monsters that bring chaos to the world of humans...

So the writer is a white supremacist.

Yeah, I find the whole thing really bizarre. So I probably shouldn't think too muc about it till we know more. I mean, it's Angrbody. She'll be fucking Loki and making some hellspawn. And she's a black young girl.

Odd choice. Wonder what they're going for here.

Has she already had her children? If so, how old was she then?
 

Blond

Banned
Water off a ducks ass, I just don’t care anymore.

Also the The Green Knight starred an Indian guy and it was my favorite King Arthur movie since the 1981 Excalibur and I didn’t give a single fuck.

People don’t complain when white characters are cast as different races, often it’s defended because “thEyRe thE beSt acToR foR thE j0b.” You know, even when Brad Pitt played a factionalized version of an actual Dark Skinned Mexican CIA agent.



sq9gSsB.png
 
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ethomaz

Banned
I was thinking a bit more about…

GoW probably has a time travel paradox.

Jörmungandr is a child of Loki… and he is interacting with that child Loki in GoW.
At the end of GoW it show a picture of Angrboda taking care of Jörmungandr when baby.
Angrboda is now showed as a child.

If I have to guess GoW Ragnarok it will probably have a time travel to the past when Loki meet Angrboda.
 
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TagZ

Member
That's because there are a lot of white characters made by many white people. I get your point, but there's a time and place for that. This game isn't that, as it has it's own style for quite some time. Now people are crying about fat Thor and a black girl. The constant whining really puts a downer on this forum.
I can agree with you with some of the whining, like I said maybe it's just the overload of it happening all over the place. The Thor thing is kinda strange, im sure in the Mythology such as the poems he's an unhealthy rude drunkard who eats a ton. I'm 99% sure Mimir calls Thor fat in the first game kinda hinting at his future design.
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
Norse Mythologies are myths, nothing "real " about it and GOW series from very beginning never ever accurate to mythologies so I don't understand whats the big deal about them wanting make their own spin on Norse mythology like the they did with Greek mythology in pervious game.

I feel like some people here like just complain for sake of complaining, its becoming tiresome.
 

Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
I was thinking a bit more about…

GoW probably has a time travel paradox.

Jörmungandr is a child of Loki… and he is interacting with that child Loki in GoW.
At the end of GoW it show a picture of Angrboda taking care of Jörmungandr when baby.
Angrboda is now showed as a child.

If I have to guess GoW Ragnarok it will probably have a time travel to the past when Loki meet Angrboda.
And where does Kratos fit into this mythology?
 

sublimit

Banned
If anyone at this point expects modern AAA games (or big budget movies/tv series) to have any sort of cultural and/or folkloric accuracy needs a reality check.

If you want to really inform yourselves about these subjects go buy a book (and even then there are tons of garbage books out there who just copy pasting inaccurate internet gibberish).

Do not treat games/movies/tv series seriously (about the subjects/topics/settings they cover) and you'll get to enjoy them more for what they are (junk food entertainment).
 
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CurtBizzy

Member
I'm pointing out the complaints are inconsistent starting with the main character. The argument is out the door at step one, you can't be outraged by a black character or at the developer about inconsistencies in lore simply because of the color of a character's skin of a mythological character that doesn't exist. These fuckers are claiming a woke agenda when the game has walked it's own path the entire time. So long as the game is good, like the last entries, is all people should care about.

As far as the MCU is concerned, if there weren't white people in Wakanda, there are now.



So are you mad that Kratos is played by a black actor and is a black character or are you just upset about this black woman? We make Jesus white every day, but that man is middle eastern.
 

TagZ

Member
People who have this much of an issue with adding diversity to games and other forms of media are just racist.

You can argue it's pandering and it's tokenism, but so what? What is the harm or damage being done? Ask yourself why this bothers you so much because the reality is, this stuff has no bearing on the quality of the game.
This is generally why I don't engage with these types of discussions. It's extremes of one side or the other. Someone has criticisms they must be "racist". How dare someone have a differing opinion but when the opposite side does the same thing it's A Okay, you're a cunt.
 

yurinka

Member
Something tells me that if Kratos and Atreus start killing Egyptian blacks and arabs, there will be a fuckton of complaints.
Oh true, I didn't think about that. Whatever they do there will be stupid sjw complains. And they will do some simp virtua signaling moves to try to appeal them. In this case they have four options:
-My favorite, to avoid sjw complains and put Kratos killing people there or in whatever other mithology they decide independently of their skin color in the same way he can kill white people in Greek or Norse mithology prioritizing to choose a cool setting and being respectful to their brand pilars
-They kill Kratos and in addition to going trans Atreus turns into black. Dumb move IMO that would piss off a lot of their fanbase
-They kill both Kratos and Atreus and the little black girl turns into a jacked black Abby. Dumb move IMO that would piss off a lot of their fanbase
-They choose another mithology where all their bad guys and dumb characters are white heterosexual males and the main characters not being white heterosexual cis males to keep the woke cult happy.

Another cool mithologies whould be the Japanese, Indian or Mayan mithologies but the same SJW complains could appear. There are other European mithologies but at least the ones I know aren't as popular as these other ones.

In any case, I want them to focus on making great games and being loyal to the brand's core pillars: angry Kratos as the main protagonist and playable character violently killing gods of some -properly represented- cool mithology.

And to keep at least God of War away of Sony's trend of replacing their/avoiding to have heterosexual male white (if not alien furry) cis protagonists, something they did in Uncharted, Spider-Man, TLOU or Ratchet, Horizon, GoT or Returnal. They made Days Gone but didn't want to make its sequel despite good sales.

I think they must keep at least Kratos as the GoW current and future games as protagonist and playable character, it would be weird that if Sony's biggest audience demographics are white young heterosexual males to don't have none of them as main character of at least one of their brands. I'm ok with Aloy, Jin Sakai including Miles or Rivet as co-protagonists whitout replacing the iconic character, but want them to stop this non-sense and to restore Nate and Joel as main characters (or co-protagonists) of their series. It's ok to include diverity where and when it makes sense but without considering white/male/cis/heterosexual main characters as something bad that they have to completely reject and replace.

Oh snap! She’s a villain! Did they just clown themselves?
No, as SJW tokenism character very likely she will be with the good guys and maybe even the new protagonist or co-protagonist to replace the iconic, beloved white heterosexual male protagonist. Sony seems to be removing all the white heterosexual cis male protagonists.
 
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Did I ever say I was mad? And why would I care? Kratos is played by a blacl actor, but he's not black. He looks like he's from Greece. I've never made Jesus white, but then again I'm not a believer.
He's black and has always been black in the game. He's covered in the ash of his dead family, which paints him a pale white.


He's much darker than the people he's killing.
 
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Kimahri

Banned
He's black and has always been black in the game. He's covered in the ash of his dead family, which paints him a pale white.


He's much darker than the people he's killing.

Ah, ok. Cool enough. But so what? Greek mythology and Africa is closely connected. Etiopia is mentioned all the time, and Memnon came to Troy's aid in the trojan war.

I get the sense you really wanna paint me as a racist who just does not want black people. I just hope you realise there is a difference between two countries that both border the same, ocean, and two countries that have an entire continent between them. Vikings traveled, yes. But Angrboda wasn't a viking. She was Jotun, a people mostly known for living in their own areas, mainly deep in the mountains, not for travelling.

I repeat, since apparently I have to, that I'm not upset. But I do find it dumb. It's clearly pandering, but I'll await further judgment till I see what her story is. She looks far too young anyways, considering her main function in the stories is that of a mother of monsters, so I'm sure there is something going on.
 
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Ah, ok. Cool enough. But so what? Greek mythology and Africa is closely connected. Etiopia is mentioned all the time, and Memnon came to Troy's aid in the trojan war.
According to lore, paintings and so on, he's white. Isn't your issue regarding your heritage? You don't care about the inconsistancies regarding Greek Mythology, only the Norse?
 
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pratyush

Member
I don't see anything wrong in what he said. Norse mythology is not very well documented and Angrboda has given birth giant snake and Wolves. What difference her skin color makes?

Why is this so offensive to some people? That character looks so good when it turned up at the end of the trailer. All those asking if they will change colour of the character if it was Egypt mythology is just looking for false equivalency.
 

sankt-Antonio

:^)--?-<
I think it would be really cool if she was from another realm that we get to see too, Egypt ... Tyr could have had his hands in her being in the lands of the giants. But that would be the case regardless of there color.
 
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DeepEnigma

Gold Member
I think it would be really cool if she was from another realm that we get to see too, Egypt ... Tyr could have had his hands in her being in the lands of the giants. But that would be the case regardless of there color.
My thoughts were an Egypt/North African connection as well.
 

IDKFA

I am Become Bilbo Baggins
The irony when you try to set up an imagery outrage and end up being the racist by its own logic lol.

The shit is woke though. Its hilarious and sad to see "artists" again and again putting their "diversity" view on western mythology and at the same time being scared about doing it with any other mythology.

Imagine Allah or Muhammed being white in the next Assassins Creed.

You make an interesting point.

I've said it many times. I'm all for race blind and gender blind casting. We're all human after all.

What is odd however is the inconsistency of it all.

If it's a white or male figure, then it is socially acceptable to race change/gender bend them. We've seen this before very recently with a black woman being cast as Anne Boleyn, plus we're seeing it more with fictional characters and settings that were based on European history, mythology and culture.

All well and good, but you couldn't do this with say, Yoruba religion and throw in white people, or a game based on Hindu religion and make some of the gods white. Look how much stick the film God's of Egypt received for having white actors play Egyptian god's.

I don't really care, but I'm interested to know why there is this inconsistency.
 
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