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[Negotiator101]

Just started The Order 1886 and given its age it looks great. Obviously the big area it lacks in is it's resolution, which produces a very soft image which isn't up to todays standard's. Other than that and a limited lighting engine it's surprisingly even now a visually impressive game.

 

[TheRedRiders]

I'm 99% sure I know which scene you're referring to and yes it was glorious.

You'll know it when you see it.

lol nah. its a major spoiler. You will know when you see it.

I will wait a month before i start spamming it in this thread. its glorious.

Ok I'm super curious now, not sure who you're referring to but I guess I'll have to wait to get to that part of the game.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

You can check out just how little a difference path tracing makes on the new digital foundry cyberpunk video where they compare ps5’s non rt mode to the full blown path traced pc mode. 90% of the time you cant tell the difference. 5% of the time the difference is massive. The rest is actually worse because it darkens areas the devs didn’t want darkened.

The fact that it comes at a massive cost of 5x in terms of pixel count and framerate, you have to wonder if simply improving your fidelity and lighting engine would be a better use of gpu power.

The rt hit in f1 is 2-3x. For a very minor visual gain. Just not worth it. They need to instead improve their core lighting engine and add better weather effects and asset quality.

Games would look so much better if devs dropped RT on consoles and did what you said.

As far as Ratchet I agree the open world areas look last gen as all get out but there are only 2 open areas, the rest of the game is linear and looks incredible. Not just those two levels you mentioned. There are 5 areas that look incredible.

 

[Neo_game]

You can check out just how little a difference path tracing makes on the new digital foundry cyberpunk video where they compare ps5’s non rt mode to the full blown path traced pc mode. 90% of the time you cant tell the difference. 5% of the time the difference is massive. The rest is actually worse because it darkens areas the devs didn’t want darkened.

The fact that it comes at a massive cost of 5x in terms of pixel count and framerate, you have to wonder if simply improving your fidelity and lighting engine would be a better use of gpu power.

The rt hit in f1 is 2-3x. For a very minor visual gain. Just not worth it. They need to instead improve their core lighting engine and add better weather effects and asset quality.

When I first saw the comparison I thought AO is missing in non RT. Standing water, puddle will also show the difference. But overall both look average at best. lol.

 

[alloush]

 

[Alex11]

You can check out just how little a difference path tracing makes on the new digital foundry cyberpunk video where they compare ps5’s non rt mode to the full blown path traced pc mode. 90% of the time you cant tell the difference. 5% of the time the difference is massive. The rest is actually worse because it darkens areas the devs didn’t want darkened.

The fact that it comes at a massive cost of 5x in terms of pixel count and framerate, you have to wonder if simply improving your fidelity and lighting engine would be a better use of gpu power.

The rt hit in f1 is 2-3x. For a very minor visual gain. Just not worth it. They need to instead improve their core lighting engine and add better weather effects and asset quality.

I agree that in most games RT is useless or adds very little, but have to disagree with Cyberpunk. I played it when it released and again now after the Overdrive update and it's one hell of a difference.
Sure, if you're in an open area in broad daylight with objects far away, nothing at all in close proximity, there is little difference.

If you are talking about the new video with the DLC, then yeah, there it wasn't as visible as the base game, although there were some things that stood out, softer and more shadows, dark where is no light, better reflections and subtle differences that IMO makes the game more realistic.

You are right that it comes at too high cost, but maybe this is the way to go for open world games with dynamic time of day, baked lighting and shadows can do so much, really don't have a clue.

 

[Turk1993]

I agree that in most games RT is useless or adds very little, but have to disagree with Cyberpunk. I played it when it released and again now after the Overdrive update and it's one hell of a difference.
Sure, if you're in an open area in broad daylight with objects far away, nothing at all in close proximity, there is little difference.

If you are talking about the new video with the DLC, then yeah, there it wasn't as visible as the base game, although there were some things that stood out, softer and more shadows, dark where is no light, better reflections and subtle differences that IMO makes the game more realistic.

You are right that it comes at too high cost, but maybe this is the way to go for open world games with dynamic time of day, baked lighting and shadows can do so much, really don't have a clue.

The difference looked smaller because the footage was mostly in dark areas with barely any light source and no sunlight, it was grey overcast weather. There will be areas like the base game where you will see huge differences, this is the best case scenario for consoles and even then there where still big differences. The moment the tod and weather starts changing you will notice massive differences.

 

[Alex11]

The difference looked smaller because the footage was mostly in dark areas with barely any light source and no sunlight, it was grey overcast weather. There will be areas like the base game where you will see huge differences, this is the best case scenario for consoles and even then there where still big differences. The moment the tod and weather starts changing you will notice massive differences.

Yeah, good point, as it is, it was still noticeable in the trailer in those areas you showed, you see the bounce light and that tube, it's a big difference, especially at the end when the light so naturally starts showing.

 

[SlimySnake]

I agree that in most games RT is useless or adds very little, but have to disagree with Cyberpunk. I played it when it released and again now after the Overdrive update and it's one hell of a difference.
Sure, if you're in an open area in broad daylight with objects far away, nothing at all in close proximity, there is little difference.

If you are talking about the new video with the DLC, then yeah, there it wasn't as visible as the base game, although there were some things that stood out, softer and more shadows, dark where is no light, better reflections and subtle differences that IMO makes the game more realistic.

You are right that it comes at too high cost, but maybe this is the way to go for open world games with dynamic time of day, baked lighting and shadows can do so much, really don't have a clue.

Yeah, I was talking about the DLC preview. I think what people fail to realize is that even without RT, Cyberpunk is a stunning looking game. With Psycho RT, it looks more accurate, and obviously with Path Tracing, it looks even more accurate, but aside from reflections, it is mostly subtle things. Id rather they just use RT reflections and use the rest on improving other aspects of the visuals like character models, asset quality etc.

I took these shots when the overdrive patch came out. I was doing psycho RT vs overdrive comparisons at first but they were virtually identical so chose to straight up compare it to the non-RT mode. Game still retains its stunning visuals and if you just add RT to cars in the standard mode, it could toe to toe with the overdrive path tracing mode.

Standard (No-RT)

Path Tracing

Standard (No-RT)

Path Tracing

Standard

Psycho RT

Path Tracing

 

[Turk1993]

Yeah, I was talking about the DLC preview. I think what people fail to realize is that even without RT, Cyberpunk is a stunning looking game. With Psycho RT, it looks more accurate, and obviously with Path Tracing, it looks even more accurate, but aside from reflections, it is mostly subtle things. Id rather they just use RT reflections and use the rest on improving other aspects of the visuals like character models, asset quality etc.

I took these shots when the overdrive patch came out. I was doing psycho RT vs overdrive comparisons at first but they were virtually identical so chose to straight up compare it to the non-RT mode. Game still retains its stunning visuals and if you just add RT to cars in the standard mode, it could toe to toe with the overdrive path tracing mode.

Standard (No-RT)

Path Tracing

Standard (No-RT)

Path Tracing

Standard

Psycho RT

Path Tracing

Yes CP2077 looks amazing even in its standard mode but if you watch them in different tabs and switch back and forth you see big differences. Also if you look straight forward the SSR will look fine but the moment you look offcenter than it falls dawn quickly.

 

[Turk1993]

SlimySnake just look at the reflections and the lighting on the distance and the trees, those are some massive differences to me.

Some more examples

 

[Luipadre]

The difference looked smaller because the footage was mostly in dark areas with barely any light source and no sunlight, it was grey overcast weather. There will be areas like the base game where you will see huge differences, this is the best case scenario for consoles and even then there where still big differences. The moment the tod and weather starts changing you will notice massive differences.

I always thought the nextgen version of cyberpunk looks bland. Only time when it looks decent is the RT mode, but the input lag is horrible in that mode. Game lacks shadows and the image has no depth to it in performance mode. Looks like objects are floating

 

[SlimySnake]

Yes CP2077 looks amazing even in its standard mode but if you watch them in different tabs and switch back and forth you see big differences. Also if you look straight forward the SSR will look fine but the moment you look offcenter than it falls dawn quickly.

The lighting/shading? on characters is whats most impressive here.

Reflections I am ok with. They are the most obvious benefit. The rest can be fixed with some manual intervention by devs. I have seen better AO and shadows in last gen games.

Regardless, I will go back and play through some missions, but the upgrade wasnt noticeable to me when I just drove around the map. What was more noticeable was the drop from 4k dlss quality to 1440p dlss balanced.

 

[GymWolf]

Lol i could never download and play a game just to check the graphic, i would lose interest 2 min in no matter how impressive it is.

 

[SlimySnake]

The leak I saw was about how they were only just now starting mocap. 3 full years after launch. There goes that whole theory about there being multiple studios within ND, and that the TLOU remake was made by the B team.

To put this in perspective, it took ND less than 3 years to make TLOU2 after shipping Lost Legacy. This after the delay related to the hack and the 6 week covid shipment delay after the game went gold. Honestly, I have no idea whats going on in the video game industry. This game is probably 3-4 years away at the very least.

I remember Sony greenlighting and announcing Uncharted 2 just four weeks after the first one came out. That game sold just 111k copies in the first month in NA, but ND was like we are full steam ahead on the sequel. They had the sequel done in two years because they immediately started working on it and probably already had the outline for what needed to be done. The train level took them 2 years so the designers must have hashed out an outline for it before the first game even shipped. I dont think thats whats happening anymore. They all just sit on their asses meddling with VSG studios and Sony Bend while Neil goes on to make tv shows for 2 and a half years.

I am sure it will have next gen graphics but who cares if it comes out in 2027, the last year of the gen?

Lol i could never download and play a game just to check the graphic, i would lose interest 2 min in no matter how impressive it is.

Then you are not a true graphics whore. Turn in your badge to Reseteravip.

I have HFW, Ratchet, Demon Souls, Miles, and several other games installed on my PS5 just so i could go back and take screenshots. Thats true dedication.

 

[GymWolf]

The leak I saw was about how they were only just now starting mocap. 3 full years after launch. There goes that whole theory about there being multiple studios within ND, and that the TLOU remake was made by the B team.

To put this in perspective, it took ND less than 3 years to make TLOU2 after shipping Lost Legacy. This after the delay related to the hack and the 6 week covid shipment delay after the game went gold. Honestly, I have no idea whats going on in the video game industry. This game is probably 3-4 years away at the very least.

I remember Sony greenlighting and announcing Uncharted 2 just four weeks after the first one came out. That game sold just 111k copies in the first month in NA, but ND was like we are full steam ahead on the sequel. They had the sequel done in two years because they immediately started working on it and probably already had the outline for what needed to be done. The train level took them 2 years so the designers must have hashed out an outline for it before the first game even shipped. I dont think thats whats happening anymore. They all just sit on their asses meddling with VSG studios and Sony Bend while Neil goes on to make tv shows for 2 and a half years.

I am sure it will have next gen graphics but who cares if it comes out in 2027, the last year of the gen?


Then you are not a true graphics whore. Turn in your badge to Reseteravip.

I have HFW, Ratchet, Demon Souls, Miles, and several other games installed on my PS5 just so i could go back and take screenshots. Thats true dedication.

I'm absolute shit at taking pics, i just use the photo topic on reeee.

 

[SlimySnake]

I'm absolute shit at taking pics, i just use the photo topic on reeee.

I dont like those threads. They feature very curated shots. Photomodes in some games nowadays have better lighting and effects. Pretty sure ratchet even allows for hero lighting to be placed. I think those screenshots that you think look bad are a more accurate representation of what the game looks like on screen.

One of my favorite stories about this was when people were posting screenshots of ratchet's 60 fps mode but in photo mode. Then DF later found out that in photo mode, Insomniac was essentially applying fidelity settings complete with RT reflections, native 4k resolution and other effects missing from the 60 fps mode. Witcher 3's RT shots posted on neogaf looked next gen as fuck but i could never get the game to look like that.

In short, id say go nuts. Take bad screenshots. If the game looks great, it will come across regardless.

 

[GymWolf]

I dont like those threads. They feature very curated shots. Photomodes in some games nowadays have better lighting and effects. Pretty sure ratchet even allows for hero lighting to be placed. I think those screenshots that you think look bad are a more accurate representation of what the game looks like on screen.

One of my favorite stories about this was when people were posting screenshots of ratchet's 60 fps mode but in photo mode. Then DF later found out that in photo mode, Insomniac was essentially applying fidelity settings complete with RT reflections, native 4k resolution and other effects missing from the 60 fps mode. Witcher 3's RT shots posted on neogaf looked next gen as fuck but i could never get the game to look like that.

In short, id say go nuts. Take bad screenshots. If the game looks great, it will come across regardless.

No thanks, i just don't like to take pics in general.

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

The difference looked smaller because the footage was mostly in dark areas with barely any light source and no sunlight, it was grey overcast weather. There will be areas like the base game where you will see huge differences, this is the best case scenario for consoles and even then there where still big differences. The moment the tod and weather starts changing you will notice massive differences.

Looking at this on a 28" monitor up close with glasses and I'm still struggling to see a difference outside of the first one and even then one could argue it's down to personal taste. Not every person likes a perfect representation of the way light works in our real world for videogame art.

See a lot of people get annoyed by high resolutions being the reason for so much wasted potential because of the GPU compute it takes up but my annoyance this gen is RT in any way, shape or form because of how absolutely monstrous the compute need is for it and how ill equipped the consoles are for it.

Think if devs just made every game 1920x1080 with no upscaling bullshit from sub 900p and absolutely no RT which most people need screenshot comparisons to see then building Worlds from there. I think we'd all be far more impressed with what they'd achieve. No Series S would have also been a massive bonus aswell as having a Switch 2 at 1.5tflops and 10GB of Ram as the baseline for some games instead of sub 200gflops and 3GB's of Ram in 2020...

PS4 Pro and X1X have a lot to answer for too because we essentially got an early taste of next gen with IQ improvements and more stable framerates / 60fps modes 3/4 years into the PS4/XB1 generation. This happened before to me when Dreamcast lessened the wow factor when we saw PS2 game visuals versus if we'd seen PS2 games straight after only PS1/N64 visuals. Was still the biggest visuals leap ever though so can't complain too much

 

[Turk1993]

Looking at this on a 28" monitor up close with glasses and I'm still struggling to see a difference outside of the first one and even then one could argue it's down to personal taste. Not every person likes a perfect representation of the way light works in our real world for videogame art.

I can see the difference even on my 6.8inch phone, just look at the way the character is lit and the scene behind her with the bounce lighting. Look at the last picture how the light bounces from the flame and creates a accurate soft shadow on the right top part of the metal and the concrete pile is accurately lit without light passing through. Also you can always adjust the lights or add fake lights even with Path tracing, its up to the devs. Just look at Lords of Fallen where they add extra invisible light sources because Lumen makes some scenes a bit to dark. They can still adjust or add anything they want but it looks better and is faster to lit up the game in a incredible convincing way.

See a lot of people get annoyed by high resolutions being the reason for so much wasted potential because of the GPU compute it takes up but my annoyance this gen is RT in any way, shape or form because of how absolutely monstrous the compute need is for it and how ill equipped the consoles are for it.

Think if devs just made every game 1920x1080 with no upscaling bullshit from sub 900p and absolutely no RT which most people need screenshot comparisons to see then building Worlds from there. I think we'd all be far more impressed with what they'd achieve. No Series S would have also been a massive bonus aswell as having a Switch 2 at 1.5tflops and 10GB of Ram as the baseline for some games instead of sub 200gflops and 3GB's of Ram in 2020...

Nah without RT the games will still be lacking and inconsistent when they are dynamic. Just look at the other comparison pictures i showed, there are huge differences that you cannot do with rasterized graphics.

 

[SlimySnake]

I can see the difference even on my 6.8inch phone, just look at the way the character is lit and the scene behind her with the bounce lighting. Look at the last picture how the light bounces from the flame and creates a accurate soft shadow on the right top part of the metal and the concrete pile is accurately lit without light passing through. Also you can always adjust the lights or add fake lights even with Path tracing, its up to the devs. Just look at Lords of Fallen where they add extra invisible light sources because Lumen makes some scenes a bit to dark. They can still adjust or add anything they want but it looks better and is faster to lit up the game in a incredible convincing way.

Nah without RT the games will still be lacking and inconsistent when they are dynamic. Just look at the other comparison pictures i showed, there are huge differences that you cannot do with rasterized graphics.

I think we definitely almost certainly need dynamic GI in next gen video games. I just dont think path tracing or even RTGI is the only way to go. One of the most mind blowing things i saw was that corridor in the UE5 PS5 demo that immediatly became illuminated when the roof collapsed. That was software GI. Stuff that Epic had implemented in UE4 back in 2013 and even the Fable devs showed off on the x1 before Phil shut them down.

Epic said Software Lumens is good for a 1440p 30 fps target on consoles while hardware Lumens that uses RT cores has to settle for 1080p 30 fps. Having played Matrix on both Software and Hardware Lumens, im ok with Software for now. Keep hardware lumens on for PC gamers. Honestly, I love that Cyberpunk Overdrive is a thing. It reminds me of the old days where PC ports got physics features and tesselation not available on consoles. But consoles are just no there yet, and even RT shadows seem to have a pretty big hit on performance if we look at what happened with FF16. Shadows are the first thing i turn down in PC settings, i would never sacrifice 10-20% of the GPU on RT shadows let alone the big hit it might incur on the CPU, vram and memory bandwidth.

EDIT: Here is that Fable video with Dynamic GI.

 

[Turk1993]

The lighting/shading? on characters is whats most impressive here.

Reflections I am ok with. They are the most obvious benefit.

Yeah they way the character are lit is just next level, before overdrive some characters where too bright even under dark areas.

The rest can be fixed with some manual intervention by devs. I have seen better AO and shadows in last gen games.

In static games maybe, but not with dynamic games with hunderd thousands of dynamic lights. And i don't know which last gen game you think has better shadows because its almost perfect in CP2077 from long soft to close hard shadows from every light source and even bounce lighting which is unseen.

Regardless, I will go back and play through some missions, but the upgrade wasnt noticeable to me when I just drove around the map. What was more noticeable was the drop from 4k dlss quality to 1440p dlss balanced.

You need to walk more to appreciate the detail and lighting, it just look soo good. But yeah iq takes a huge hit if you don't have a DLSS 3 compatible GPU.

Then you are not a true graphics whore. Turn in your badge to Reseteravip.

I have HFW, Ratchet, Demon Souls, Miles, and several other games installed on my PS5 just so i could go back and take screenshots. Thats true dedication.

Lol same as me, i didn't like CP2077 in the first place it was all for its graphics. Same as many other games i played like HFW, just wanted to see the graphics. And if they are good or better than i expected then i play them and finish them as a bonus.

I think we definitely almost certainly need dynamic GI in next gen video games. I just dont think path tracing or even RTGI is the only way to go. One of the most mind blowing things i saw was that corridor in the UE5 PS5 demo that immediatly became illuminated when the roof collapsed. That was software GI. Stuff that Epic had implemented in UE4 back in 2013 and even the Fable devs showed off on the x1 before Phil shut them down.

Epic said Software Lumens is good for a 1440p 30 fps target on consoles while hardware Lumens that uses RT cores has to settle for 1080p 30 fps. Having played Matrix on both Software and Hardware Lumens, im ok with Software for now. Keep hardware lumens on for PC gamers. Honestly, I love that Cyberpunk Overdrive is a thing. It reminds me of the old days where PC ports got physics features and tesselation not available on consoles. But consoles are just no there yet, and even RT shadows seem to have a pretty big hit on performance if we look at what happened with FF16. Shadows are the first thing i turn down in PC settings, i would never sacrifice 10-20% of the GPU on RT shadows let alone the big hit it might incur on the CPU, vram and memory bandwidth.

Lumen is the perfect solution for consoles, its efficient and it gets the job done. Its the best solution till consoles are powerfull enough to run path tracing with upgraded visuals (textures, shaders,...). I hope that they push the consoles a little bit back and give them some more RT juice so we don't have to compromise anymore. Just release a pro console next year and wait for the real upgrade till atleast 2028.

 

[rofif]

Yeah, I was talking about the DLC preview. I think what people fail to realize is that even without RT, Cyberpunk is a stunning looking game. With Psycho RT, it looks more accurate, and obviously with Path Tracing, it looks even more accurate, but aside from reflections, it is mostly subtle things. Id rather they just use RT reflections and use the rest on improving other aspects of the visuals like character models, asset quality etc.

I took these shots when the overdrive patch came out. I was doing psycho RT vs overdrive comparisons at first but they were virtually identical so chose to straight up compare it to the non-RT mode. Game still retains its stunning visuals and if you just add RT to cars in the standard mode, it could toe to toe with the overdrive path tracing mode.

Standard (No-RT)

Path Tracing

Standard (No-RT)

Path Tracing

Standard

Psycho RT

Path Tracing

yeah and then you look at the fps comparison and this only serves to prove the point HOW IMPRESSIVE RASTER TECH IS nowadays.
it produces similar image quality to RT, often at higher resolution and better framerate.
To be honest, I don't think RT is the only way forward. It's ancient technique and it's just brute forcing. Raster techs got much clever.

And for all the RT prowess and beuty... the cyberpunk 2077 on psycho rt, 4k and everything... still not once in any scene escapes the video game look for me while recent FF16 does that "on occasion" and looks like cgi to me.

It's not only about the tech but how you use it.

 

[SlimySnake]

Yeah they way the character are lit is just next level, before overdrive some characters where too bright even under dark areas.

In static games maybe, but not with dynamic games with hunderd thousands of dynamic lights. And i don't know which last gen game you think has better shadows because its almost perfect in CP2077 from long soft to close hard shadows from every light source and even bounce lighting which is unseen.


You need to walk more to appreciate the detail and lighting, it just look soo good. But yeah iq takes a huge hit if you don't have a DLSS 3 compatible GPU.

Lol same as me, i didn't like CP2077 in the first place it was all for its graphics. Same as many other games i played like HFW, just wanted to see the graphics. And if they are good or better than i expected then i play them and finish them as a bonus.


Lumen is the perfect solution for consoles, its efficient and it gets the job done. Its the best solution till consoles are powerfull enough to run path tracing with upgraded visuals (textures, shaders,...). I hope that they push the consoles a little bit back and give them some more RT juice so we don't have to compromise anymore. Just release a pro console next year and wait for the real upgrade till atleast 2028.

i really dislike both cyberpunk and HFW from a gameplay perspective so its torture to see games this beautiful and not play them.

I think mid gen consoles should look into adding some kind of tensor cores for DLSS or AI upscaling instead of simply repackaging the AMD 7000 or 6000 series cards. These big engineering R&D firms at Sony and MS have to do more than just take whatever AMD gives them. Honestly, id rather we go back to the dedicated CPU and GPU designs even if it costs a little extra. Forcing CPU to be on the same die is limiting how many RT cores and tensor cores they can put in which is really hampering the RT performance on consoles. AMD has phoned in the last two gens on PC and have simply failed to improve RT performance. It's time for Sony and MS engineers to give them a hand. Yes, it will be expensive, but the PS5 is selling gangbusters at $550. Its time to launch $599 consoles.

 

[Schmendrick]

I just dont think path tracing or even RTGI is the only way to go. One of the most mind blowing things i saw was that corridor in the UE5 PS5 demo that immediatly became illuminated when the roof collapsed. That was software GI.

That was software RT with voxel field abstracted geometry. Basically just very low res RTGI.....

 

[Lethal01]

Pretty much.

Gaffers are always confused about cinematic games being the death of videogames or the best thing ever, it's quite amusing.

This happened to pop into my feed and it's got me more curious about the XIII-3 battle system than I ever was about 16s

 

[Alex11]

yeah and then you look at the fps comparison and this only serves to prove the point HOW IMPRESSIVE RASTER TECH IS nowadays.
it produces similar image quality to RT, often at higher resolution and better framerate.
To be honest, I don't think RT is the only way forward. It's ancient technique and it's just brute forcing. Raster techs got much clever.

And for all the RT prowess and beuty... the cyberpunk 2077 on psycho rt, 4k and everything... still not once in any scene escapes the video game look for me while recent FF16 does that "on occasion" and looks like cgi to me.

It's not only about the tech but how you use it.

I mean FFXVI looks good, and artistically its amazing, but they're not comparable, I'm sorry, but to say that CP is gamey and FF CGI to me is a bit weird.

Cyberpunk clearly goes for a realistic approach to graphics while FF is more stylized.

 

[Lethal01]

I'm 99% sure I know which scene you're referring to and yes it was glorious.



You'll know it when you see it.

I've already seen everything, who are we talking about..

 

[TheKremlinBossMan]

This happened to pop into my feed and it's got me more curious about the XIII-3 battle system than I ever was about 16s

It's not as bad as people say, It is in the bottom three FF games of all time but its a solid 6. Just above average.

 

[arkhamguy123]

Getting more into FF16 and yes. Parts are indeed next gen looking besides the big monster fight showcases. Some models like the hot lady with the Karen cut look cgi and the castles in the main story sport this nice soft cgi looking lighting and a lot of dense geometry probably not possible in the exact same way on PS4.

Also the tessellation in these castles is impressive. Probably 2nd best to demon souls. All the uneven rocks are really nice on the eyes. All in all it’s getting a biiiiit better. A highlight was going through dungeon hallways in one part with Clive’s little fireball flashlight. That looked really next Gen. It’s growin on me slowly but surely after a rough start graphically. (Game itself, story/combat, are awesome)

 

[rofif]

I mean FFXVI looks good, and artistically its amazing, but they're not comparable, I'm sorry, but to say that CP is gamey and FF CGI to me is a bit weird.

Cyberpunk clearly goes for a realistic approach to graphics while FF is more stylized.

I don't care what Cp77 does and how good it's tech is. It never escapes the "it's a video game" look and ff16 does ... sometimes. And I say that fully knowing that fidelity is much lower in ff16

 

[SlimySnake]

Getting more into FF16 and yes. Parts are indeed next gen looking besides the big monster fight showcases. Some models like the hot lady with the Karen cut look cgi and the castles in the main story sport this nice soft cgi looking lighting and a lot of dense geometry probably not possible in the exact same way on PS4.

Also the tessellation in these castles is impressive. Probably 2nd best to demon souls. All the uneven rocks are really nice on the eyes. All in all it’s getting a biiiiit better. A highlight was going through dungeon hallways in one part with Clive’s little fireball flashlight. That looked really next Gen. It’s growin on me slowly but surely after a rough start graphically. (Game itself, story/combat, are awesome)

To my disappointment, that glowing fireball flashlight has only returned once. I swear it makes even character model look next gen as fuck. Hero lighting is so important in these games and this effectively works like one.

TBH, the castle did not impress me one bit. DS has way better texture quality and tesselation in castles. But the next area you will go to with the open world fields is my favorite. It sucks that they keep changing the lighting for that area because it doesnt look nearly as good under cloudy skies. Dusk lighting is ok, but again, doesnt make the visuals pop like the day time lighting.

Been taking some screenshots of how bad this game can look and my god I couldnt help but laugh at how terrible these NPCs looked. Straight up lifted from their PS3 MMO. They said they made the game exclusive because they get help from Sony engineers. Well, next time have Sony send them the tech used to make better looking character models in HFW because this is atrocious.

Here are some dusk time shots. Looks good, but I was hoping for more areas set in the mid day setting.

vs

 

[Turk1993]

yeah and then you look at the fps comparison and this only serves to prove the point HOW IMPRESSIVE RASTER TECH IS nowadays.
it produces similar image quality to RT, often at higher resolution and better framerate.
To be honest, I don't think RT is the only way forward. It's ancient technique and it's just brute forcing. Raster techs got much clever.

And for all the RT prowess and beuty... the cyberpunk 2077 on psycho rt, 4k and everything... still not once in any scene escapes the video game look for me while recent FF16 does that "on occasion" and looks like cgi to me.

It's not only about the tech but how you use it.

I don't care what Cp77 does and how good it's tech is. It never escapes the "it's a video game" look and ff16 does ... sometimes. And I say that fully knowing that fidelity is much lower in ff16

I asked for one single frame where FF looked CG and still didn't get anything that looks remotely close to it. CP2077 is the closest thing to CG there is because it literally uses the most CG tech out of any game. All the pics you guys posted from FF looked like a PS4 game at best outside 2 screenshots from Slimmy that looked cross gen. Not even for 1 sec was i like this look CG, not 1. I just ask 1 frame that you think looks CG, just 1.

VS what you think looks CG

 

[Turk1993]

 

[SlimySnake]

I've already seen everything, who are we talking about..

Going to hide the pics in the spoiler tag since the game is still relatively new.

Massive FF16 character Act 1 ending spoilers. Arkhamguy, do not click.

Spoiler

I dont think the game looks CG, but this scene and this character model blew me away. That lighting, that hair, those visual effects, omg.

Wish this person was the main lead.

 

[TheRedRiders]

Going to hide the pics in the spoiler tag since the game is still relatively new.

Massive FF16 character Act 1 ending spoilers. Arkhamguy, do not click.

Spoiler

I dont think the game looks CG, but this scene and this character model blew me away. That lighting, that hair, those visual effects, omg.

Wish this person was the main lead.

The consistency of FF16 in art direction, and technical and graphical programming really is....something.

 

[alloush]

The leak I saw was about how they were only just now starting mocap. 3 full years after launch. There goes that whole theory about there being multiple studios within ND, and that the TLOU remake was made by the B team.

To put this in perspective, it took ND less than 3 years to make TLOU2 after shipping Lost Legacy. This after the delay related to the hack and the 6 week covid shipment delay after the game went gold. Honestly, I have no idea whats going on in the video game industry. This game is probably 3-4 years away at the very least.

I remember Sony greenlighting and announcing Uncharted 2 just four weeks after the first one came out. That game sold just 111k copies in the first month in NA, but ND was like we are full steam ahead on the sequel. They had the sequel done in two years because they immediately started working on it and probably already had the outline for what needed to be done. The train level took them 2 years so the designers must have hashed out an outline for it before the first game even shipped. I dont think thats whats happening anymore. They all just sit on their asses meddling with VSG studios and Sony Bend while Neil goes on to make tv shows for 2 and a half years.

I am sure it will have next gen graphics but who cares if it comes out in 2027, the last year of the gen?

Wait, you serious? ND just started mocap? On TLOU 3? If that’s true then I dunno what to say, man. Lol. I’m outta words for devs but nothing surprises me anymore.

Dev time is getting longer and longer, I’d say Rockstar started this trend with long ass dev time between games. I mean they literally skipped a whole gen for the first time ever without ever releasing a GTA game, and why wouldn’t they? They released GTA 5 on 3 different console gens, milked the shit out of it. Cannot wait for them to release, my favorite game series of all time, RDR3 in 2035.

My question is, why? Why are devs and game publishers taking forever nowadays to even announce games let alone release them?

 

[SlimySnake]

Looks like Bethesda really did overhaul Creation Engine for Starfield, calling it Creation Engine 2.

Bethesda Game Studios has been working on the major Creation Engine 2 overhaul for quite some time. Starfield has been in development for 8 years, and during that time, the studio has been iterating on its existing Creation Engine to upgrade it for the new Xbox Series X/S console generation. While most of Starfield's development has been in-house, Microsoft's ATG (Advanced Technology Group) has been assisting Bethesda Game Studios since early 2022, helping with things like console optimization to ensure Starfield looks and runs great on both the Series S and Series X consoles.

"We are just so happy with the new engine. It took us so long to do," Howard said.

"Our tech team there are wizards, led by Chris Rodriguez and Joel Dinolt. What we're able to do in the game, and have all these things looking amazing and running from all the items that we're simulating in people's spaceships, full planets, our lighting model is just awesome...it's a real-time GI (global illumination)."

"We didn't really show this off, and I'd love to in the future, but we have some really great volumetric fog and how that interacts with the lighting. Then you get into the physics and we start messing with gravity, it gets crazier. Our guest system...I think people are...you know there are a lot of open world games now, but I think what really makes ours different is that all these quests are running. It's not like you start a mission and we shut everything down.

"You can be on dozens of these at once, and that creates a lot of chaos sometimes in our games, we're aware of that, but it also creates these magic moments that we just love and our players love and I think that's what is really really special about it."

Read more: https://www.tweaktown.com/news/9215...das-todd-howard-happy-with-results/index.html

I am really not a fan of how poor their games looked on the PS3 and PS4 gens, but honestly, this is one of the few games that has gotten lighting right. Insane considering its Bethesda who started developing this game long before the generation started and yet chose to target next gen specs, not holding themselves back despite being a third party developer. We should be praising these ambitious devs instead of chastizing them for not getting 60 fps working on $500 consoles.

 

[TheRedRiders]

Wait, you serious? ND just started mocap? On TLOU 3? If that’s true then I dunno what to say, man. Lol. I’m outta words for devs but nothing surprises me anymore.

Dev time is getting longer and longer, I’d say Rockstar started this trend with long ass dev time between games. I mean they literally skipped a whole gen for the first time ever without ever releasing a GTA game, and why wouldn’t they? They released GTA 5 on 3 different console gens, milked the shit out of it. Cannot wait for them to release, my favorite game series of all time, RDR3 in 2035.

My question is, why? Why are devs and game publishers taking forever nowadays to even announce games let alone release them?

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but these games haven't exactly scaled up in terms of pure size and length.

I think there's been changes in production and logistical pipelines, the pandemic shifted the work culture and now many people work from home which may also be a factor. Sony specifically, and their hyper obsession with super triple A titles is only making it worse on their side.

I don't buy it that there's somehow a technical bottleneck which is what is causing the long production times. What I mean by technical bottleneck is game engine set-up, asset creation and programming. There hasn't been any major breakthroughs in terms of workflow, if anything the process has gotten easier over the years even if we account for advancements in hardware and feature set.

 

[alloush]

Keep hardware lumens on for PC gamers.

Hey, take yo PC ass outta this thread

i really dislike both cyberpunk and HFW from a gameplay perspective so its torture to see games this beautiful and not play them.

Wait, you don’t like HFW? May I ask why? Haven’t played it myself, but thought you were a big fan of the game.

I think mid gen consoles should look into adding some kind of tensor cores for DLSS or AI upscaling instead of simply repackaging the AMD 7000 or 6000 series cards. These big engineering R&D firms at Sony and MS have to do more than just take whatever AMD gives them. Honestly, id rather we go back to the dedicated CPU and GPU designs even if it costs a little extra. Forcing CPU to be on the same die is limiting how many RT cores and tensor cores they can put in which is really hampering the RT performance on consoles. AMD has phoned in the last two gens on PC and have simply failed to improve RT performance. It's time for Sony and MS engineers to give them a hand. Yes, it will be expensive, but the PS5 is selling gangbusters at $550. Its time to launch $599 consoles.

Fuck it, release $800 consoles. If people don’t mind paying a thousand dollars for a phone every year and do not complain at the price of these pricey ass phones then they should not complain about an $800 console that should last them at least 8 years.

Not gonna lie, I was never big on CP’s graphics but these screenshots are hot damn, son!

 

[alloush]

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but these games haven't exactly scaled up in terms of pure size and length.

I think there's been changes in production and logistical pipelines, the pandemic shifted the work culture and now many people work from home which may also be a factor. Sony specifically, and their hyper obsession with super triple A titles is only making it worse on their side.

I don't buy it that there's somehow a technical bottleneck which is what is causing the long production times. What I mean by technical bottleneck is game engine set-up, asset creation and programming. There hasn't been any major breakthroughs in terms of workflow, if anything the process has gotten easier over the years even if we account for advancements in hardware and feature set.

Exactly. Which makes this whole long dev time crap all the more baffling!

Games have not changed in any way shape or form except for graphics and even in that regard we have not seen huge strides made. AI and animations, two areas I am heavily invested in, have not seen a proper technical upgrade since probably the PS3 days and I wish I was joking.

 

[ChiefDada]

I dont think the game looks CG, but this scene and this character model blew me away. That lighting, that hair, those visual effects, omg.

Wish this person was the main lead.

I think the character's physical characteristics lends itself very well to edge lighting, which always looks amazing when cast on them

 

[SlimySnake]

Wait, you serious? ND just started mocap? On TLOU 3? If that’s true then I dunno what to say, man. Lol. I’m outta words for devs but nothing surprises me anymore.

Dev time is getting longer and longer, I’d say Rockstar started this trend with long ass dev time between games. I mean they literally skipped a whole gen for the first time ever without ever releasing a GTA game, and why wouldn’t they? They released GTA 5 on 3 different console gens, milked the shit out of it. Cannot wait for them to release, my favorite game series of all time, RDR3 in 2035.

My question is, why? Why are devs and game publishers taking forever nowadays to even announce games let alone release them?

The leak said they will begin mocap LATER this year. So if the leak is true then they havent even started mocap yet.

In ND's case, its obvious Neil didnt want them working on anything he wasnt directing and since he was out making a tv show for 2 years, they just chose to waste their time on a bs remake and factions which is now effectively cancelled.

Rockstar had some internal troubles with one of the houser brothers leaving. GTA is supposed to be a satire of American society but we live in an age where simply stating women cant have penises gets you cancelled so I am guessing its impossible to make that kind of game right now. They actually made comments stating something to that effect that im too lazy to pull up. But my guess is GTA is in development hell. Having all 7 studios working on one game probably doesnt help. They shouldve just split RDR and GTA teams and if it takes 5-7 years to make them both fine. Right now, RDR3 is probably a 2030 or 2032 game. 12-14 year after the sequel came out. RDR2 has a lot of really bs things like having 2000 voice actors with each NPC in the game having their own lines. I bet they are doing something dumb like that for GTA6. just a waste of resources.

Death Stranding 2 is the game that frustrates me the most. Kojima started from scratch and made DS1 in 4 years. Literally borrowing engines from Sucker Punch and GG, and with 85 devs, made a GOTY. Its been 3.5 years since DS1 came out and all we have is a short trailer with no gameplay. Like what was he working on this whole time? His E3 Death Stranding trailers were legendary. What happened here?

 

[alloush]

Looks like Bethesda really did overhaul Creation Engine for Starfield, calling it Creation Engine 2.







Read more: https://www.tweaktown.com/news/9215...das-todd-howard-happy-with-results/index.html

I am really not a fan of how poor their games looked on the PS3 and PS4 gens, but honestly, this is one of the few games that has gotten lighting right. Insane considering its Bethesda who started developing this game long before the generation started and yet chose to target next gen specs, not holding themselves back despite being a third party developer. We should be praising these ambitious devs instead of chastizing them for not getting 60 fps working on $500 consoles.

Bethesda innovating, Ubisoft impressing, MS having decent game showcases, and Sony flopping, well, goddamn, son the world is changing. The end is near I tell ya!

 

[rofif]

I asked for one single frame where FF looked CG and still didn't get anything that looks remotely close to it. CP2077 is the closest thing to CG there is because it literally uses the most CG tech out of any game. All the pics you guys posted from FF looked like a PS4 game at best outside 2 screenshots from Slimmy that looked cross gen. Not even for 1 sec was i like this look CG, not 1. I just ask 1 frame that you think looks CG, just 1.

VS what you think looks CG

None of this looks cgi to me really. cp2077 looks incredible but it doesn't have THAT look. Maybe it's too sharp? I almost wonder if it wouldn't look more realistic in lower resolution maybe.

While looking through 300 shots I took when playing from ff16, I can't say which are cgi and which are in-game because I honestly don't know. There is rumored to be 5% cgi in this game and it could be anything.
There is FOR 100% scene after first crystal, which is cgi because characters in front are aliased and in back you can see armies and realistic grassy mountains. Big battle scenes are probably pre-rendered too.

Will first post some that I personally think look like CGI (and I know most are not because some I've taken in photo mode or just in game). By CGI I mean, look like pre-rendered movie like of recent resident evil movies maybe or something. A movie you would pause? no idea. Not kingsglaive. Worse obviously.

Yes. It's not about fidelity. This small anime child looks like cgi unlike anything in cp2077

Prince Dion might be blurry af but he is also hot af

Now some world shots. These don't look as much cgi maybe but have great quality overall. Assets might be lower quality than cp2077 but it comes together so incredibly well it looks like a fake video game ad in a sense lol.

 

[SlimySnake]

Bethesda innovating, Ubisoft impressing, MS having decent game showcases, and Sony flopping, well, goddamn, son the world is changing. The end is near I tell ya!

Massive said that Avatar started dev in 2017. So a third party studio was thinking ahead back when HZD and GT7 came out, and before Spiderman, Forza Horizon 4, and GOW were a thing. Crazy to think about.

Wait, you don’t like HFW? May I ask why? Haven’t played it myself, but thought you were a big fan of the game.

I am a big fan of HZD but HFW felt very euro-jank. Didnt help that the game shipped with very poor IQ issues in both quality and performance modes. Performance mode had very poor artifacts when moving, and quality mode had some bizarre brightness flickering issues. Just a really bad first impression. They also screwed up the gameplay balance by making enemies too aggressive and Aloy too weak. The jankiness was off the charts when climbing or doing anything indoors.

I still really liked the story so played through it and even got into the end game experimenting with different builds, but aside from that, the flow of combat is just trash and every time I go back and get into a random fight, it exposes just how bad the combat really is.

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

Just started The Order 1886 and given its age it looks great. Obviously the big area it lacks in is it's resolution, which produces a very soft image which isn't up to todays standard's. Other than that and a limited lighting engine it's surprisingly even now a visually impressive game.

The environments look CGI to me. I thought PS5 games would have this CGI look…

 

[LoveCake]

Well PS5 & Xbox Series X are supposed to be able to do 8k resolution, so games locked 60fps at 8k.

 

[Lethal01]

Going to hide the pics in the spoiler tag since the game is still relatively new.

Massive FF16 character Act 1 ending spoilers. Arkhamguy, do not click.

Spoiler

I dont think the game looks CG, but this scene and this character model blew me away. That lighting, that hair, those visual effects, omg.

Wish this person was the main lead.

I think they are inline with the rest of the cast aside of having a more striking hair style.
Better design but by no means technical leap over the rest, it's okay to just say you like

Spoiler

twinks

Im right there with ya.

 

[Schmendrick]

What's going on with some of you guys squirting over cutscene quality these last few pages?
Real time or not the quality is nowhere near representative of the actual gameplay visuals, especially in FF16....